On The Collapse of Complex Societies

One of the mailing lists that I'm on had a great short essay about the disastrous decision that societies can make - and their consequences. The author is Jared Diamond, who also wrote Guns, Germs and Steel (First Slashdot book review was that book), and is still one of the most interesting books I've read in a while.

I give it 45 more seconds......

[mao che minh]

Slashdot: On The Collapse of Complex Web Servers

Damn...

[asparagus]

The adage popular then was that students who got A's did the technical work, while people who managed only C's wound up running things.

That this adage may no longer hold true seems like progress.

After all those years of hard work, getting ready to rule the world, they switch the rules of the game just as I leave!

Hmmmmm.....

[airrage]

First of all, a group may fail to anticipate a problem before the problem actually arrives.
-- My girlfriend and I will be together forever.
Secondly, when the problem arrives, the group may fail to perceive the problem.
-- She is not interested in other guys, we are simply growing closer.
Then, after they perceive the problem, they may fail even to try to solve the problem.
-- Her dating other guys is simply a cry for more attention.
Finally, they may try to solve it but may fail in their attempts to do so.
-- I will win her back with chocolates and poetry.

All it took in high school....

[kewsh]

was telling one girl that another had sex with her football star boyfriend...

It depends on your viewpoint

[Anonymous Coward]

The Easter Islanders gradually chopped down that forest to use the wood for canoes, firewood, transporting statues, raising statues, and carving and also to protect against soil erosion. Eventually they chopped down all the forests to the point where all the tree species were extinct, which meant that they ran out of canoes, they could no longer erect statues, there were no longer trees to protect the topsoil against erosion, and their society collapsed in an epidemic of cannibalism that left 90 percent of the islanders dead.

But for the 10% of slacker, cannibalistic, sun worshipping Easter Islanders this was a golden age.

Re:Hmmmmm.....

[travdaddy]

First of all, a group may fail to anticipate a problem before the problem actually arrives.
-- My girlfriend and I will be together forever.

If you were trying to make an example that other Slashdotters would understand through their own experience... you failed. :)

Re:Damn...

[mcmonkey]

Nope, now folks who got As run things, while people who managed only Cs get to wave at the cameras and say things like, "I think anybody who doesn't think I'm smart enough to handle the job is underestimating"

God bless America!

Re:Hmmmmm.....

[ePhil_One]

First of all, a group may fail to anticipate a problem before the problem actually arrives.
-- My girlfriend and I will be together forever.
Secondly, when the problem arrives, the group may fail to perceive the problem.
-- She is not interested in other guys, we are simply growing closer.
Then, after they perceive the problem, they may fail even to try to solve the problem.
-- Her dating other guys is simply a cry for more attention.
Finally, they may try to solve it but may fail in their attempts to do so.
-- I will win her back with chocolates and poetry.

You forgot a few steps:

As one attempt fails, more and more radical solutions are attempted
-- I'll stand outside her home/office so she knows I'm there for her.
-- I'll call her friends and family to get them to remind her how good we are for each other
-- I'll secretly more into her attic and hold her cat hostage...

Hold on, there's a knock on my door...

Re:Hmmmmm.....

[sig cop]

OMG ROTFLMAO!! You so funny witty slashdot poster!!! Do you have any other beat-into-the-ground jokes for us?

You: Take my wife, please!
Us: OMG - you so funny!!!!

You: White people can't dance!!
Us: HAHAHAHAHAH!! So True and funny!

You: Nerds don't get dates!!!
Us: HA ha - funny and true! And sad :(

You: What do you call 32 lawyers at bottom of ocean? ANS: A good start!!
Us: ROTFL!!! Stop - you slay us with wit!!!

You: Imagine BEOWULF cluster!
Us: Thank you sir may I have another?

You: Why do they have braille at drive up ATM? HMMM? Think about it please.
Us: OMFG!!! That is so strange - because blind people don't drive!!! HAHHAHAHHAH.

You: Knock Knock
Us: PLEASE DIE

Re:Jared Diamond

[Anonymous Coward]

he is, in my professors words "a national treasure."

Quick! Harvest him before someone else does.

Networking

[xyote]

Maybe when the Easter Islanders ran out of trees, they tried networking to find new trees. Now everyone knows networking can't find you trees (or jobs) when there are none, but it does help you meet new food. So the next time you meet some smug employed geek, ask him if he knows what "long pig" means. And give him your best toothy grin.

Poor Jared

[michaelhood]

I'm sure the collapse of the Amish [800padutch.com] society must have devastated him, and lead to Jared's [edge.org] writing of this column.

Holy bad website formatting, Batman!

[Kakurenbo Shogun]

Holy bad website formatting, Batman! When you first arrive, you see the headline for the article: "WHY DO SOME SOCIETIES MAKE DISASTROUS DECISIONS?: JARED DIAMOND" with a brief synopsis of the what the article is about under it. But don't expect the article to begin yet. As you scroll down and prepare to be enlightened, what do you see? First, somebody's comment about Dolly, the cloned sheep. Uh, this must not be the article. Scroll down a little farther.

Next you find an unrelated editorial. Is the article anywhere on the page or not? Scroll down a little farther.

Ah! Here it is: "WHY DO SOME SOCIETIES MAKE DISASTROUS DECISIONS?: JARED DIAMOND". You start to read, and then realize that what you're reading is an introduction to the article. I thought I already read an introduction up above!? Oh, wait, that was a synopsis. Is the article anywhere on this page or not? Scroll down a little farther.

Next, you see a little section titled "further reading on Edge" with some links. I can't believe it! Huh, I must have missed the link to the actual article above. Scroll around a little, but find no link.

Just by chance, you scroll a little farther down and see it again: "WHY DO SOME SOCIETIES MAKE DISASTROUS DECISIONS?: JARED DIAMOND". By this time, you're a little wary. But to your delight, you finally find the article!

It's about 1/3 the way down the page under the THIRD copy of it's title. My best guess is that the guy who designed the page had a 6 foot tall monitor that showed the whole thing all at once, so he didn't know how confusing that was. Come on, guys! The least you can do is provide a TOC of what's on the page with links to scroll you to each section!

Re:The problem is overpopulation.

[Lemmy Caution]

Even as we speak, several varieties of fish are on the verge of distinction.

Recently, a well-spoken mackerel was nominated for a Pulitzer!

Call me a freak...

[uityup]

but if I came across the last tree on an island which is quickly converting to cannabalism, my thought would be closer to "building a boat and getting my ass off this island is more important than preserving the environment."

Re:Stupid decisions?

[Anonymous Coward]

Studies have also shown that some of New York's teams play in New Jersey.

Where was the Lorax?

[Big_Monkey_Bird]

The Easter Islanders didn't have the Lorax speaking for the trees? I guess we're lucky.

Re:It's a flame, but important anyway

[smcdow]

What he's groping for is a theory of economic externalities. But he doesn't have one.

Fuck Economics. The man's article was about disaster and how to possibly avoid future ones.
If avoiding future disasters means throwing out current economic models, then good riddance!

Re:The Maya

[Thud457]

"Wasn't it because of drugs?"

No.

It was because their religion predicated their rulers repeatedly stabbing their foreskins with stingray spines.

That, and obviously, not enough drugs.

beer

[zogger]

--the one I read was that advanced civilization came about from beer. Guys accidentaly had some wild grain ferment in some gourd, they drink/eat it, get drunk, liked it. Being hunter gatherer's, they stripped the local grain supply, moved on until they found abundance. Then your scenario takes over, controlled agriculture comes about, they settle in one area, villages arise, trade starts, division of labor, etc, etc.

Probably fire and metal working in there, too, someplace, but I think beer and then therefore an abundance of drunk babes did most of it. Occams razor.

Re:Short essey ?

[Anonymous Coward]

"essey"

Apparently you didn't use the spell check either when writing an essay; would that qualify you as a teacher's pet. Yes I am a troll, but I couldn't resist.

Re:Chaos theory of human societies?

[Alsee]

it did happen it would be a really great example of tunneling

No, a really great example of tunnling would be if several million dollars in cash "tunneled" out of a bank vault and into my basement :D

-

Re:Fisheries.

[tenman]

Reminds me of Monty Python..."it's just a flesh wound."