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Science

The Riddle of Baghdad's Battery 1808

Jodrell writes "The BBC has an interesting article about a 2,200 year old battery discovered in Iraq in 1938. It is basically a clay pot containing a copper/iron core immersed in an electrolye solution (probably acidic vinegar). The article talks about how this priceless artifact as well as many others, from the same civilisation that invented writing and the wheel, could be threatened by the impending war."
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The Riddle of Baghdad's Battery

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  • Re:Priorities (Score:0, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 27, 2003 @12:22PM (#5396485)
    Some would say that removing one dictator, while propping up others, is hypocrite.
  • by monkey_tennis ( 649997 ) on Thursday February 27, 2003 @12:23PM (#5396495)

    It wasn't Al Queada - it was the Tailban.

    The Taliban supported/allowed (seperate discussion) Al Queada activity in Afganistan, but they're not the same thing.

  • Re:Priorities (Score:1, Informative)

    by Scrameustache ( 459504 ) on Thursday February 27, 2003 @12:24PM (#5396514) Homepage Journal
    Yes, those "some" would be the ones willing to send other people to die in order to gain controll of the Iraqi oil fields. Money money money...
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 27, 2003 @12:25PM (#5396528)
    You mean when the Taliban destroyed the Buddhist monuments? Where was the outrage? Actually I think you'll find it <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/stor y/0,3604,445855,00.html">here</a>, <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/ 1165983.stm">here</a> and <a href="http://news.sawaal.com/02-Mar-2001/National/ 40.htm">here</a> or are many other hundreds of places.

    To quote one article:

    "The Indian Government and the international community have expressed concern over Afghanistan's fundamentalist Taliban regime's decision to destroy all Buddhist statues, describing it as an absolute outrage."

    Perhaps you weren't watching/reading any good news channels/articles at the time?
  • by Lemmy Caution ( 8378 ) on Thursday February 27, 2003 @12:26PM (#5396542) Homepage
    The same is true, of course, of England, and Spain, and Germany, and America (North and South). The Christian faith and the migrations of Roman, Germanic, and British people erased the cultural legacies of the peoples there.
  • by nomadic ( 141991 ) <nomadicworld@@@gmail...com> on Thursday February 27, 2003 @12:30PM (#5396587) Homepage
    They didn't say they were.

    The article talks about how this priceless artifact as well as many others, from the same civilisation that invented writing and the wheel, could be threatened by the impending war.

    They say specifically that the artifacts are in danger from the war, not the civilization. Nowhere do they imply that the civilization that created them is the same culture that inhabits Iraq now.
  • by borgdows ( 599861 ) on Thursday February 27, 2003 @12:30PM (#5396593)
    actually, Iraq is a laic state!
    there is christians and muslims living together in Iraq! hell even Iraqi's prime minister (Tarek Aziz) is christian..

    Iraq is not Saudi Arabia!
  • Fixed them for you

    You mean when the Taliban destroyed the Buddhist monuments? Where was the outrage? Actually I think you'll find it here [guardian.co.uk], here [bbc.co.uk] and here [sawaal.com] or are many other hundreds of places.
  • by The Ape With No Name ( 213531 ) on Thursday February 27, 2003 @12:34PM (#5396645) Homepage
    Did it confict with the European idea that they were the center of science and religion?

    Actually, in a roundabout way, you are on the right track. One of the tenets of Orientalism is that Oriental cultures by definition are degenerate and in decline. Occidental cultures are, in contrast, always progressive, especially after the 14th Century CE. Occidental cultures are all European countries and their descendant cultures that are ruled by people who have European origins -- a notable exception being Slavs. So, the point is because this supposed technology rose from an Oriental culture it is either the product of interaction with ascendant Occidental culture or an anamoly. In either case, it must be erased. See Richard Perle and Wolfowitz for the contemporary personification of academics who think this way. It's called "the colonizer's model of the world."
  • Re:battery??? (Score:5, Informative)

    by gorilla ( 36491 ) on Thursday February 27, 2003 @12:34PM (#5396648)
    No. Electricity was first described by ThalesofMiletus around 600 BCE. He polished amber with fur, to produce static electricity, and this is where we get the word 'electricity' from, from the greek word for Amber.
  • Somehow I don't think you read the article. While I'm not saying that they were or weren't batteries, if you would note that the article says that the containers were pottery, and had an iron / copper rod, in what might've been an electrolyte solution, I don't think that whatever it was was accidental. Also there's more than one of these "batteries."
  • Re:Priorities (Score:5, Informative)

    by BorgDrone ( 64343 ) on Thursday February 27, 2003 @12:54PM (#5396910) Homepage
    Some would say that they wish Saddam would stop using chemical weapons on them... you would hear this mostly from the Kurds (N Iraq).

    Are you talking about the chemical weapons given to saddam by the US from 1985 to 1989 and which included among other things Antrax and Botulinum ?

    Some would say that they hate being targets of weapons funded by Iraq... you would hear this from the Israelis.

    You mean weapons funded by the US government. [bowlingforcolumbine.com]

  • by Politburo ( 640618 ) on Thursday February 27, 2003 @01:01PM (#5396999)
    I don't see how they can assume these are batteries when there is no evidence of wires or mechanical devices that would use the electricity.

    Just because you aren't powering a Walkman with it, doesn't make the device not a battery. It doesn't have to have x amount of charge to be a battery. If it allows chemical energy to be converted to electrical energy, there's your battery.
  • Re:Priorities (Score:2, Informative)

    by gobbo ( 567674 ) on Thursday February 27, 2003 @01:18PM (#5397203) Journal
    Nuclear weapons in the hands of someone who's used WMD before and who has started 11 wars is certainly a greater concern if your job description says, "save the living" and not "advance archeology".

    Er, you mean these weapons [nukewatch.org] used in this way [yale.edu] or this way [rmiembassyus.org] and these wars [informationwar.org]? Or maybe you mean these new WMD [guardian.co.uk]?

    Oh wait, that's alot more dead than a million and WAY more wars started than 11. I guess you mean Iraq. No, the FUD about them doesn't worry me nearly as much as gigatons of nuclear power in the hands of respectable sociopaths.

    By the way, landmines and small arms are the real genocidal weapons at this point. Who makes them? And didn't S.Hussein purchase chemical agents made in Rochester NY?

    Later: more on depleted uranium, deaths from sanctions, unexploded cluster bombs, and the emplacement of military bases as part of the new world order. Not to mention the way that creating committed terrorist enemies by invading other countries --> fear at home --> greater governmental control.

    Things get broken. It's either toddlers or politics.

  • Re:Bad Priorities (Score:5, Informative)

    by Markus Landgren ( 50350 ) on Thursday February 27, 2003 @01:22PM (#5397271) Homepage
    Moreover, It takes courage to advocate and perform an unpleasent but neccessary action. It takes none at all to come out in favor of puppies and kittens, children playing in the sun, and M-16 barrels being used to hold flowers.
    Guess what? Bush, Rumsfield, Powell, and Blair value those things to. But these things will not happen in Iraq, or the middle east, by simply wishing them into existence.


    Will they happen by selling Harpoon missiles and anthrax bacteria to Saddam Hussein, like Rumsfeld did when he was Reagan's special envoy to the middle east?

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 27, 2003 @01:26PM (#5397330)
    We get oil from Iraq, but nowhere near as much as France, Germany, and other industrialized European countries. So if the US controls the Iraq oil supply, the US controls whoever the oil is supplied *to*.
  • by Saib0t ( 204692 ) <saibot@h[ ]eria-mud.org ['esp' in gap]> on Thursday February 27, 2003 @01:31PM (#5397390)
    Now tell me what incentives Germany and Belgium have to oppose war?

    And while you're at it, tell me why Sadam needs to be off the country, if not for US control of oil. US don't need oil from Iraq, they get most of theirs from Venezuela and Kuwait (you didn't believe the USA helped kuwait out of good will back in '91, do you?). It's not about getting oil, it's about CONTROLLING oil.

  • by watzinaneihm ( 627119 ) on Thursday February 27, 2003 @01:47PM (#5397592) Journal
    Just some clever mettalurgy here....
    The pillar you are referring to is in Delhi and its mystery has apparently been solved [expressindia.com]
    Apparently the metal had a high hydrogen content and formed a coating of "misawite" .
  • by glrotate ( 300695 ) on Thursday February 27, 2003 @02:07PM (#5397860) Homepage
    The Learning Channel [discovery.com] did a very nice special about this last year. An archeologist cross referenced the Hebrew garden/creation story of Eden with material from the Sumarian mythical Edin. Moden Iranians have turned the place into a dump, but if you move up into the surrounding mountains it it beautiful.
  • Re:No! (Score:4, Informative)

    by IndependentVik ( 582582 ) on Thursday February 27, 2003 @02:33PM (#5398166)
    yea and liberals who loved clinton going into kosovo because he was freeing people from a dictator now think the US has no right to police the world..

    OK, please correct me if I'm mistaken, because I was fairly young when the Kosovo thing occurred, but it seems to me that atrocities were being commited at the very time we entered Kosovo. Our motives were fairly pure in that we as a country weren't "getting" anything out of liberating the people there--we were honestly just trying to help.

    As I understand it, Sadamm has committed endless atrocities, but the very worst ones were committed in the past. Why are we only going in now? So that we can get cheap oil? Because Bush holds a grudge against this guy ("he tried to kill my dad")? Because we can't find Osama and so need an easy scapegoat to bring down in his stead?

    If I honestly believed that the only (or even primary) reason we were going to Iraq was to make life better for the Iraqi people, then I think I wouldn't be as hard on Bush as I have been.

    And look at Afghanistan. All these months after our liberation there and have we really done that much good? Warlords are still running amock; the only place they don't have any real power is Kabul. Are we really interested in helping the oppressed of the world or are we just so blindingly scared of terrorism that we're willing to lash out at the first country the President looks at funny?
  • Re:Priorities (Score:2, Informative)

    by csguy314 ( 559705 ) on Thursday February 27, 2003 @02:49PM (#5398368) Homepage
    Bullshit. The Wailing Wall was restored to the Jewish people by the IDF, who recaptured East Jerusalem during the 6 Day war

    After Arabs captured Jerusalem from the romans in 638, they restored the wailing wall to the Jews of Jerusalem.
    And incidentally, until the past century, the Arab lands were the safest place in the world for the jewish people, who were terribly mistreated by other societies.
  • by SablKnight ( 205665 ) on Thursday February 27, 2003 @02:59PM (#5398508)
    OK, I'm gonna get blasted for this, but what the hell.

    "Native" means born in a place.
    "Indigenous" or "Aboriginal" means from a culture that originated in that place.

    I (German-Ukranian) am "native" to America, since I was born there. I am not, however, aboriginal, which means I can't run casinos in many places, and that I sound particularly dorky talking about spirit guides, dream quests, and the like.

    Resume flaming.

    -SablKnight
  • by Alarion ( 263883 ) on Thursday February 27, 2003 @03:18PM (#5398770) Homepage
    which is also incorrect

    Sumerians are attributed with inventing many of these firsts (writing, wheel etc). They pretty much came from nowehere and disappeared, Babylon arose after the era of Sumer.
  • Re:No! (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 27, 2003 @08:13PM (#5401808)
    Nagasaki and Hiroshima were chosen because they were the least densely populated significant military targets in Japan. Would you prefer we dropped nukes on Tokyo or Osaka? Hitting an empty field (Japan does not have many of these big enough to take a nuke) or the open ocean doesn't do anything. America did warn them before Hiroshima. They didn't believe it. Then they refused to surrender. So another bomb was dropped on Nagasaki.
  • by Citizen of Earth ( 569446 ) on Friday February 28, 2003 @12:00AM (#5403305)
    The real tragedy here is that many Europeans truely believe that America is a country filled with mindless drones who believe everything they read and that everything they read is a lie. ...or that France and Germany are doing anything more than protecting their multi-billion-dollar oil interests in Iraq. Well, actually, the politicians are being demagogues for their own political gain.

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