Space Shuttle Columbia Breaks Up Over Texas 2398
An anonymous reader writes "NASA lost communication with space shuttle Columbia shortly before its scheduled landing on Saturday. It was unclear whether there were any other problems." Various news programs have been showing debris falling from the sky, and NASA has declared an emergency.Update: 02/01 15:29 GMT by H : Confirmation has come - the shuttle has broken up over Texas while coming in for landing Florida.
Hrmmm... mars? (Score:1, Interesting)
Does this mean we won't be going to Mars?
All I can say is . . . (Score:2, Interesting)
My feelings go out to the families, the people of the USA and the people of Israel.
Re:Space Shuttle (Score:1, Interesting)
It seems like there may have been some insulation missing from one of the wings which may have hampered the shuttles entry. Or maybe the shuttle entered the earth's atmosphere too fast.
talking with the autoclave guy (Score:2, Interesting)
Terrorism? (Score:-1, Interesting)
According just now to Fox News, around the area where it broke up in space, electronics were reported shorted out -- meaning the space shuttle was hit with an EMP bomb!
Pieces? (Score:2, Interesting)
May god bless the souls of the brave men and women on board.
Now we have a stranded ISS crew... (Score:4, Interesting)
What are the chances NASA will send up STS 108 on schedule?
Will they use the soyuz emergency capsule to return earthside?
This is why we need suborbital launch and return (Score:1, Interesting)
suborbital platforms enable you to do this in near space therefore avoiding the stresses incurred through gravity and atmosphere
Freaky (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:This is terrible (Score:4, Interesting)
Maybe it is not so bad for the space program itself. It was the first failure of the Apollo mission that sparked NASA's motivation, and inherent success, thereafter, I believe. The results of this, although acutely tragic, could certainly bring about renewed motiviation. If that is the case, then at least this loss will not have been in vain.
Re:Very sad... (Score:1, Interesting)
of the wings during launch, but considered harmless...
Re:This is terrible (Score:3, Interesting)
Within a year the ISS will be abandoned and manned space flights will be a novelty for the rest of my life.
My thoughts go out to the families and us all. Finally the use of an aging orbiter fleet has come back to bite us.
Looks like Feynmann was right :( (Score:5, Interesting)
Challenger was flight STS-51L - this was flight STS-107. I'd say even Feynmann may have been somewhat optimistic (although 2 failures is a thin data set - anyone want to figure a chi-square on it?).
Appropriate Lines: (Score:1, Interesting)
Close your eyes with holy dread
For he on honeydew hath fed
And drunk the milf of paradise.
-"Kubla Khan", Coleridge
NOAA Radar (Score:5, Interesting)
NOAA Radar (Score:3, Interesting)
Shuttles. (Score:3, Interesting)
I now know how everyone felt in 1986, after the Challenger disaster.
--grendel drago
Feynman on reliability of the space shuttle... (Score:3, Interesting)
How soon the next shuttle flight? (Space station) (Score:3, Interesting)
--LP
Re:End of Nuclear power in space.... (Score:5, Interesting)
As evidence that the project will continue, I refer to this PopSci article:
"The New War in Space"
http://www.popsci.com/popsci/aviation/art
Not because PopSci is really the definitive source on such issues, but because it contains some quotes from Rumsfeld about his (hence, the administration's) intent to "weaponize" space, and some analysis thereof.
The choice quote, which I can't track down at the moment, is something like "All media (land, sea, air) have been used for combat, and it's unrealistic to think space will be any different." Unfortunately, I doubt the administration will be dissuaded by the deaths of 7 astronauts, or the broader implications of this tragedy relative to the safety of sending *anything* into space.
Heaviest shuttle ever upon landing? (Score:2, Interesting)
Fate of All Shuttles (Score:2, Interesting)
This is an acceptable risk, and with the aging shuttle program Columbia is a timely wake-up call.
It's time to redesign the shuttle
- why does it have to re-enter so fast? (not to evade terrorist missiles) It should be able to fly itself anywhere after re-entry.
- crew ejection
- tiles falling off
- can lift off and land in poor weather
- more monitoring to know if something can go wrong (not acceptable to have a tile break off and not know what the consequences are)
"High Flight" (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Very sad... (Score:5, Interesting)
You are correct, it wasn't 20. It was a bit over 3 minutes. My memory seems to have exaggerated after almost 20 years.
"Analysis of crew cabin wreckage indicates the shuttle's windows may have survived the explosion. It is thus possible the crew did not experience high-altitude cabin decompression. If so, some or all of the astronauts may have been alive and conscious all the way to impact in the Atlantic some 18 miles northeast of the launch pad. The cabin hit the water at better than 200 mph on Scobee's side. The metal posts of the two forward flight deck seats, for example, were bent sharply to the right by force of impact when the cabin disintegrated.
"The internal crew module components recovered were crushed and distorted, but showed no evidence of heat or fire," the commission report said. "A general consistency among the components was a shear deformation from the top of the components toward the +Y (to the right) direction from a force acting from the left. Components crushed or sheared in the above manner included avionics boxes from all three avionics bays, crew lockers, instrument panels and the seat frames from the commander and the pilot. The more extensive and heavier crush damage appeared on components nearer the upper left side of the crew module. The magnitude and direction of the crush damage indicates that the module was in a nose down and steep left bank attitude when it hit the water.
"The fact that pieces of forward fuselage upper shell were recovered with the crew module indicates that the upper shell remained attached to the crew module until water impact. Pieces of upper forward fuselage shell recovered or found with the crew module included cockpit window frames, the ingress/egress hatch, structure around the hatch frame and pieces of the left and right sides. The window glass from all of the windows, including the hatch window, was fractured with only fragments of glass remaining in the frames."
Several large objects were tracked by radar after the shuttle disintegrated. One such object, classified as "Object D," hit the water 207 seconds after launch about 18 nautical miles east of launch pad 39B. This apparently was the crew cabin."
Re:All I can say is . . . (Score:4, Interesting)
If it was sabotage... (Score:3, Interesting)
I am old enough to remember the first flight of the good ship Columbia. Please bear in mind a few facts:
The Columbia was the first Shuttle to blast off. The Enterprise was basically a glider that was used to test how well a Shuttle could land.
It's old. 22 years old. It has flown 25+ missions and literally millions of miles.
When the Columbia first landed in the early 1980s, there was concern for the safety of the Astronauts during re-entry. Nobody was entirely certain about whether or not the ceramic tiles would hold, and it was speculated that if a tile broke loose before or during reentry the entire heat shield would be compromised enough for the ship to break up under the stress of the friction of the atmosphere.
I am not saying that this was the work of terrorists...there are so many things that can go wrong during reentry that a completely accidental breach of the heat shield is probably the most likely cause of the disaster. However, very simple "monkey-wrenching" of the heat shield could have caused this as well. If an infiltrator broke a tile or two in such a way that it wouldn't be readily apparant to final inspection, or maybe pried one or two loose...
I have no doubt, however, that either Hamas, Islamic Jihad, or Hesbollah, all three and/or any combination of the three will claim responsibility for this event. I don't think AlQaeda will, because they seem to only take credit for things they actually have a hand in. Also I don't think that you will hear anything from the Palestinian Authority other than conciliatory words.
Weird coincidence: smack dab in the middle of the debris field is a Texas town called Palestine.
Eerie article in Washington Post (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Space Shuttle (Score:2, Interesting)
Jan 27th, 1967, Apollo 1
Jan 28th, 1986, Challenger
Now this?
Withthe exception of Apollo 13, which ended in a successful rescue, all the most serious disasters in the NASA space program, the ones involving deaths of astronauts, have been in the last week of January and now the first week of February.
Thoughts?
We *WILL* get to Mars (Score:3, Interesting)
Perhaps the end of the shuttle but remember all the other NASA disasters we overcame.
Since today underlines how dangerous launch/reentry is I think it illustrates that we should not be taking such big risks for dinky reward (ie to and from space station)
Never mind Mars, what about the ISS? (Score:2, Interesting)
For that matter, are/were there any astronauts/cosmonauts aboard Alpha? How are they going to get home now? I don't think there's going to be any shuttle missions for quite a while. Are we going to have to get lifts from the Russians?
How about the whole ISS project anyway? Is this going to toast that for good, too?
Re: $DEITY rest their souls (Score:5, Interesting)
Which is exactly what I was asking myself when the Challenger exploded.
Re:Shuttles. (Score:2, Interesting)
if anything, it was a bit worse then. there was a civilian aboard Challenger - Christa McAuliffe, because of whom that liftoff was watched on live TV in a lot of classrooms. the shuttle program was going full-bore then, too; it was a time when the things were supposed to be safe, effective, cheap lift to orbit. regular people didn't expect them to blow up spectacularly and kill all their crew back then, so it was more of a surprise and shock.
but yeah, just about as bad the second time around too. goddessdammit, i just don't want there to be a third time. woulda, coulda, shoulda had the bloody DC-X by now...
Interesting radar (Score:3, Interesting)
If these streaks and point echoes are what I believe them to be, that is, parts of Columbia, she was in trouble before she made landfall in California or very shortly thereafter. The images we've been seeing on TV are several minutes after the first possible indications of trouble and show Columbia badly damaged.
May God bless all who are affected by this tragedy.
Re:No doubt! (Score:5, Interesting)
It should also be noted... (Score:5, Interesting)
Interesting facts aside, this is a terrible tragedy. After an appropriate period of introspection and mourning, I hope that our government has the foresight to use this as the impetus to rethink the space program from the ground up, and reinvest in the types of endeavors that made the U.S. recognized leaders in the advancement of science and human exploration in the 1960s. It is time for NASA to be completely redesigned, and a new human space initiative begun with the bold, risk-taking nature that Americans have always been known for.
Unfortunately, our current governemnt is led by what is most likely the most short-sighted administration of the past 100 years. The chances of this President using this tragedy constructively as a catalyst for postive change are about the same as one of the Shuttle astronauts phoning in from a payphone in East Texas.
Just to add to the speculation... (Score:3, Interesting)
It's obviously way early, but it's possible that the shuttle bay door was not secure, the ram pressure of reentry levered it open, the shuttle tumbled due to new aerodynamic forces, and the rest is, sadly, history.
Re:Several Comments (Score:3, Interesting)
Only compared with its orbital speed. Still many times the flat out speed of any other aircraft. You cannot simply bail out of something travelling at hypersonic speed. The only possible escape would be something like the F-111 capsule, which is not fitted to the Shuttle.
Re:God rest their souls (Score:2, Interesting)
Some of the last images of the astronauts (Score:5, Interesting)
Space.com has a series of pictures [space.com] put together with captions that were taken during the past 2 weeks on board the shuttle.
You can also find a copy of the mission patch and an explanation at spaceflight.nasa.gov (don't remember the direct link, sorry).
Support ISS with Russian crafts (Score:5, Interesting)
This would mean the construction activity is halted (Shuttles were to deliver most/all new modules), but at least the station can be operated in its current configurations for the time being.
I view the dual delivery systems (STS + Russian crafts) as a partial redundancy built into the ISS program. Don't we now have the exact case when this redundancy should be used?
Any knowledgeable person to comment?
How many? How safe? (Score:3, Interesting)
I strongly recommend looking at Richard Feynman's account of serving on the committee to investigate the Challenger crash.
He describes being shocked at how the figure one crash in 100,000 launches was floating around, with no justification behind it. When he talked with actual engineers, they had realistic views of the reliability of their particular sub-systems.
Anyhow, the real figure was expect one disaster every one hundred launches or so.
So two disasters within the first 107 launches is withing the predicted envelope.
I feel sure all the astronauts are aware of this figure. If they were doing their homework they would have to have learned this. I feel sorry for their friends and family, but they too should have been aware of the gamble the astronauts were choosing to make.
Re:God rest their souls (Score:3, Interesting)
I did the exact same thing when Challenger blew up. I was 6 years old and I wanted to watch USA Cartoon Express and my parents kept watching the news. I always felt a little weird about that - understandable, but weird.
Re:God rest their souls (Score:5, Interesting)
And ironic that it happens 36 years (and a couple of days) after the Apollo 1 tragedy.
Re:God rest their souls (Score:2, Interesting)
And they'll continue to use the same 8088 based microprocessors, and the same control software, and all the same hardware that is now mounting on 20-30 years old, because all new designs and projects keep getting cancelled.
This should be a perfect excuse to get a NEW program going, completed, and get a NEW vehicle out there. The government should DEMAND it of NASA if NASA doesn't DEMAND it of itself.
Yes, we've had relatively few space vehicle accidents compared to number of successful launches, orbits, flights, landings, etc.. and yes, I recognize that space travel is dangerous.
I hope that this affects the right people in the right ways to make it the impetus for PROGRESS rather than to SIT ON OUR ASSES as NASA did for the 2 and a half years after Challenger. (yes, I know they were determining the cause and working to protect the other shuttles from that.. but come on. 2 and a half years of no flights?)
Engineer who brought that warning was fired (Score:4, Interesting)
Two years ago, I was a highly decorated NASA engineer. I was awarded their highest medal, for Exceptional Achievement -- something that is usually reserved for senior managers -- because of my expertise.
I was a safety engineer.
I was removed from my GS-13 position, as an internationally-recognized authority on hypergolic propellants and explosives, and forced off the Kennedy Space Center. At gunpoint.
Their excuse was that I had "abused government equipment." Because I sent a friend an e-mail joke.
The reality was that I wouldn't play their "political ball."
I F-ING WARNED THEM.
I told them that the technicians and engineers were overworked. I told them that there were too many managers and too many meetings and "dog-and-pony" shows. I told them that their senior "face time" play games, while they spent all their time plotting how to give each other pay raises, and left the guys on the floor to struggle day to day with obsolete and overpriced and unqualified equipment, was going to result in another Challenger.
I was there for Challenger.
I saw the same exact conditions happening again. Overpaid, lazy, irresponsible managers concerned solely with their climbing up their ladders.
I told them they were skimping on inspections. I told them that the ground crews were asleep on their feet from exhaustion. I made as much noise as I knew how to make about the top-heavy bureaucracy sitting around in their fancy panelled offices, giving whorish press interviews in their smugness, while they did not have a clue what was going on in the real world where I was working.
They fired me. They fired a GS-13 civil servant, with an Exceptional Service medal and ten dozen commendations. For sending an e-mail joke.
In reality, for objecting to political fat-cats sitting on their fat rear ends and failing to do their jobs.
Like Challenger, those who are most guilty are the ones who will attempt to make the most political capital out of it. But the blame for Columbia lies entirely and totally with the NASA administrators. They should all be investigated for their criminal negligence. They should all serve time in jail.
I warned them. They did their best to destroy me, because I warned them.
It's too bad that innocent astronauts paid with their lives for NASA managers greed and political ass-kissing.
But I am not surprised.
Two years ago, I warned them.
Dian Hardison
Cocoa, FL 32927
Note: Her NASA biography [nasa.gov] is still online at a NASA site.