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Science Technology

Improvements in Teleportation 437

assaultriflesforfree writes "Here's a little update on quantum entanglement and teleportation from The New York Times (free registration, yay): 'Employing a facet of quantum mechanics that Albert Einstein called "spooky action at a distance," scientists have taken particles of light, destroyed them and then resurrected copies more than a mile away.' I am a little skeptical about the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle statements, though. Is this really a form of Star Trek's Heisenberg Compensator?"
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Improvements in Teleportation

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  • This is defnitely kind of cool, but I will be a great deal more impressed when it is achieved with an object with appreciable mass. This said, it does seem to show me the way to cut down my lag to that Counterstike server - all I need is a fibreoptic modem!
    • This is defnitely kind of cool, but I will be a great deal more impressed when it is achieved with an object with appreciable mass.

      A moving photon behaves as though it has mass and momentum. Consider the Compton effect, where a photon striking an electron causes the photon to scatter off the electron like a billiard ball. It's all about quantum theory. ;-)
      • A moving photon behaves as though it has mass and momentum.

        Keyword: "behaves"

        While this is impressive, this is IMO still all fantasy. Light (photons or waves) is still not fully understood and to say that it behaves like it has mass is not the same as saying it is mass and I've replicated elsewhere.

        I want to read about actual matter moving.
        • this is IMO still all fantasy

          It shouldn't be. Light does have momentum (part of the idea behind solar sails). However, light does not have mass (but you might be able to argue that since it has momentum it behaves like it has mass, whatever that means). Most people think that this cannot be since p=m*v and if it has no m, it can't have any p. Well, relativity shows that E=p*c for light so if the light has energy, it can have momentum. In this way, momentum is more of a fundamental quantity than mass or velocity and cannot, in general, be separated into a product of the two.

          • Light does have momentum (part of the idea behind solar sails). However, light does not have mass(but you might be able to argue that since it has momentum it behaves like it has mass, whatever that means). Most people think that this cannot be since p=m*v and if it has no m, it can't have any p. Well, relativity shows that E=p*c for light so if the light has energy, it can have momentum. In this way, momentum is more of a fundamental quantity than mass or velocity and cannot, in general, be separated into a product of the two

            Light has momentum: true.
            Light doesn't have mass: false.

            Light has mass because light has energy. Mass and energy are the same quantity expressed in different units. The conversion factor from mass to energy is c-squared.

            What light doesn't have is rest mass.

            Paul

      • Yeah, it scatters it like a billiard ball hit by a spitball. Remember there is VERY little movement by the electron for each photon. Infact to prove this theory they had to use a laser beam of LOTS of photons to move an electron very much at all. When they can do this with an electron i'll be much more impressed, espeically considering that the photon has no electro-magnetic charge and much of their process could be greatly disturbed byt charges. Then again you have to start somewhere and moving photons is a good places.
  • Not beaming... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Snaller ( 147050 ) on Friday January 31, 2003 @07:29AM (#5195166) Journal
    ...more like comm badges - still kinda nifty though, then you can be anywhere on the planet and still be interrupted all the time :)
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 31, 2003 @07:32AM (#5195168)
    Here's an article [nationalgeographic.com] from National Geographic that doesn't require registration. Sorry I couldn't find the Google News link for the NYT article.

    (from Anonymous Karma Whores R Us)
    • by Jugalator ( 259273 ) on Friday January 31, 2003 @09:38AM (#5195567) Journal
      Sorry I couldn't find the Google News link for the NYT article.

      In the URL of the NYT article, replace "www" with "archive".

    • Does it bother anyone else that the wavelength quoted in the National Geographic article is a few orders of magnitude too large?

      You'd think a science writer would puzzle over a photon with a wavelength of 0.05 inches being able to travel in a glass fiber instead of a microwave waveguide.

      Probably some editor confused microns with millimeters and then converted to inches, because we all know that inches are a more familiar unit to use when talking about light wavelengths.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 31, 2003 @07:33AM (#5195171)
    you can never be sure how much you had to drink.
    Great weapon development here, I guess you could teleport bullets halfway around the world faster than the speed of light?.. ouch.
  • No Reg. Required (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 31, 2003 @07:34AM (#5195173)
    Light Particles Are Duplicated More Than a Mile Away Along Fiber
    By KENNETH CHANG

    Employing a facet of quantum mechanics that Albert Einstein called "spooky action at a distance," scientists have taken particles of light, destroyed them and then resurrected copies more than a mile away.

    Previous experiments in so-called quantum teleportation moved particles of light about a yard. The findings could aid the sending of unbreakable coded messages, which is limited to a few tens of miles.

    The new experiment used longer wavelengths of light than earlier ones, letting the scientists copy the light through standard glass fiber found in fiber optic cables.

    "The central issue is to move to telecom fibers and telecom wavelengths and telecom technology," said Dr. Nicolas Gisin, a physics professor at the University of Geneva and the senior author of an article today in the journal Nature. "This then allows us to go the long distance."

    The experiments are a primitive realization of the transporter in the "Star Trek" television series that beams people from starship to planet. In coming years, it may be possible to use teleportation to imprint the exact quantum configuration of one atom to another. But teleporting something from the everyday world like a person that contains more than a trillion trillion atoms is highly unlikely, if not impossible.

    Even with the light particles, photons, about one in a thousand were received at the other side.

    "You're not very sure to arrive," a researcher, Dr. Hugo Zbinden, said about human teleportation.

    Still, the experiments show that scientists can overcome a seemingly insurmountable conceptual barrier, the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. The principle states that the location and velocity of a particle cannot both be precisely measured at the same time. That would seem to make it impossible to teleport anything, even single particles, because without knowing their exact specifications they cannot be copied somewhere else.

    Devised in 1993 by scientists led by Dr. Charles H. Bennett of the I.B.M. Thomas J. Watson Research Center in Yorktown Heights, N.Y., quantum teleportation produces pairs of "entangled" light particles that can be thought of as a pair of encoding and decoding rings. A message is combined with the encoding light particle. That combination goes to the recipient, who uses the decoding photon to decipher the message. Because no one else has the decoding photon, no one else can decipher the message.

    Other encoding techniques using quantum cryptography are simpler, and a more immediate use for teleportation would be as a repeater. Photons almost all peter out after traveling about 50 miles through optical fiber. Teleportation would enable the creation of copies every 50 miles or so, letting the message be sent across an unlimited distance.
    • The important thing about this "teleportation" process to remember is: if you stick your hand into the region between the transmitter and reciever you will still get a hole burned in it by the perfectly ordinary beam of energetic, physical photons that is "teleporting" the information.

      --Tom

  • I could have swong this was done several years ago. Personally it seemd a lot like the disassembly and reassembly of a web page to me.

    Never really got what was supposed to be so amazing...
    • Yes, I'm 100% sure I read a similar photon teleportation experiment some year(s?) ago. It wasn't over a mile that time though.
    • Yup, I remember reading the article in Scientific America. It was done in a lab where they modified one half of a split photon and the other half exhibited the same modification.

      I think it was some 10 years ago.
  • reg free link (Score:3, Informative)

    by imag0 ( 605684 ) on Friday January 31, 2003 @07:35AM (#5195175) Homepage
  • Does this... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Does this have anything to do with quantum pairs, where changing one particle causes the exact change in its mate, instantaneously, no matter how far apart they are?
    • Yes. And no

      It's spooky action at a distance, or entanglement. But it's not so much that you change one of the 'items', as it is that cause it to choose a state.

      You look in Schrodingers box to check on the cat. Now if you'd entangled the cats. Then let them seperate moving the boxes to hither and yawn, they're still both living and dead. They haven't been made to choose. But once you look in on one of the entangled cats, you can infer the state of the other. So even though it's far away, and doesn't seem like it should have been made to choose, it was.
      • Re:Does this... (Score:2, Informative)

        by io333 ( 574963 )
        You look in Schrodingers box to check on the cat. Now if you'd entangled the cats. Then let them seperate moving the boxes to hither and yawn, they're still both living and dead. They haven't been made to choose. But once you look in on one of the entangled cats, you can infer the state of the other. So even though it's far away, and doesn't seem like it should have been made to choose, it was.

        This is better:

        You put two cats in a closed box with a poison cat treat (only 1). Only one of the cats will eat the treat, you don't know which.

        Then the cats are seperated into two closed boxes and seperated.

        While the boxes are unopened, you don't know the state of either cat.

        If you open one box, you then know the state of the other cat.
        • Hidden variables (Score:5, Informative)

          by iangoldby ( 552781 ) on Friday January 31, 2003 @09:23AM (#5195492) Homepage
          Not quite. That's more like a 'hidden variable' version of Quantum Mechanics. The box that the poison treat is in is a hidden variable because it has a definite value (albeit unknown to you). The standard interpretation of Quantum Mechanics is that there are no hidden variables. So the poison treat would have to be simultaneously 'in both' and 'not in both' boxes until you observe one of the cats.

          The original Schroedinger's Cat thought experiment used a truly quantum-mechanical device to determine whether the cat should live or die. I don't think you can remove that quantum element and still have a valid analogy. The point (or one of them) of the thought experiment is that the cat 'magnifies' the quantum effect.
          • Re:Hidden variables (Score:5, Interesting)

            by Kibo ( 256105 ) <naw#gmail,com> on Friday January 31, 2003 @10:02AM (#5195699) Homepage
            Man did that bad analogy get out of control.

            Anyway. I think the idea behind the cat was to show the absurdity of an indeterminate state like something being both spin up and spin down. Under the copenhagen interpritation it doesn't really matter what the inscrutible secret reality is, but many extremely clever experiments have shown repeatedly, and perhaps most dramatically in investigations of 'spooky action at a distance', that the universe really is that wierd. The thought experiment is wrong, because, for the most part, that quantum nature were discussing disintigrates as things get bigger. The cat wouldn't be alive and dead, the cyanide wouldn't be contained and released, the vial smasher wouldn't have spared and smashed the vial, and radioactive particle will either have decayed or not. It might 'think' about it in a maelstrom of virtual particles, but once it decays, it quickly joins the larger system. And before you know it PETA is suing your ass. I think this particular thought experiment remains popular because it spotlights a flaw in our intuition, and how we interpret uncertainty.

            If you're religious you can believe god watching the universe is what makes it go, if you're a Kari Wurher fan maybe there's an alternate universe where she'll rub up against you, or, if you're like me, you favor decoherenece (not that I wouldn't favor Kari). It's just important to remember these comfortable ways of framing or describing what's happening aren't nessecarily what's acctually happening where we aren't allowed to look.
  • by ageOfWWIV ( 641164 ) on Friday January 31, 2003 @07:39AM (#5195184)
    The potential application of this technology is boundless. Everything from communication to transportation, even society will be changed by the refinment and eventual mastery of this particular branch of quantum physics.

    I'm sure 400 years from now people will be using spooky action at a distance to teleport to their flying cars so they can head out to stores to finally buy a shrinkwrapped copy of Duke Nukem Forever.
  • don't beam ME up. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by MoFoYa ( 644563 ) <mofoya@gmail.com> on Friday January 31, 2003 @07:42AM (#5195189)
    Teleporting light - ok
    Teleporting an object with considerable mass - ok

    NOT me though. What do you think might happen to you between the time you are destroyed and the time your mass is replicated?
    I would think that even if it were a very short time there would still be problems -- after all you WERE destroyed.

    On the good side - imagine a future when you can purchase something online and have it in 5 min. by replicating it in your new replicator(duh) thats connected directly to your computer. You buy the item - then download the mass profile(perhaps a .mpr file) and send it to the replicator like you would a document to a printer.
    - very cool stuff
    • I would think that even if it were a very short time there would still be problems -- after all you WERE destroyed.

      Yes, but if you were "rebuilt" on a particle level, no matter how long you'd be destroyed/dead, it seems logical to me that you should be in the exact health as you were when you were destroyed".

      The problem might of course be to rebuild an entire person with the billions of particles in the exact same relative positions as before. :-)
      • Re:don't beam ME up. (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Xuther ( 223012 )
        Yes, but if you were "rebuilt" on a particle level, no matter how long you'd be destroyed/dead, it seems logical to me that you should be in the exact health as you were when you were destroyed".


        There's the problem right there though, it's not the same particles, the result on the other end is NOT you, it's a duplicate.

        About the only way I ever see any sort of teleportation ever succeeding is to cause the existing particles that you're made up of to shift to a higher engery state (think mattergy), encapsulated in some sort of field, and the bubble containing you pushed/pulled somewhere else. I've only come accross it once before, but I read an article that subatomic particles can travel anywhere almost instantaniously (slipstream?).
        • But why bother destroying the original. Let's get some cloning machines using this tech churning out thousands of copies of sexy chicks!
        • Re:don't beam ME up. (Score:5, Interesting)

          by moonbender ( 547943 ) <moonbenderNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Friday January 31, 2003 @08:52AM (#5195354)
          There's the problem right there though, it's not the same particles, the result on the other end is NOT you, it's a duplicate.


          Obviously, all of this depends on how you define your "self". If you are the particles you're made of, then yeah, you're gone after (Star-Trek-style) teleporting. If you are your self-awareness, your consciousness, then you'll still be you. I'd tend to the latter definition.
          Parts of your body matter (like your blood) gets destroyed and rebuilt - partly from particles that are/were most definetely not you (like food) - every day. Does that mean that that blood is not yours? Okay, not a very good analogy.

          (Obviously, this more a philosophical discussion than anything else. If it is possible at all, none of us will witness human teleportation.)
    • perhaps a .mpr file

      I'd certainly hope our computers will be rid of @#$% filename extensions before we have practical applications of teleportation. Although from the current state of it (with even Apple regressing into the Middle Ages of Metadata), chances are slim.

    • I had a long discussion about teleportation with some friends, and this is what we came up with..

      If you are destroyed and then replicated, you are effectively dead. Consider if you could meet your replicate before being destroyed. He would say to you: "Ok, I don't need you anymore, so I destroy you now." Is that good for you? Maybe it is good for him, but certainly not good for the real you.

      However, the copy of you would be good for me and everyone else. To us, you are the same person. You will fulfill your life's duties and make great works. However, you won't be around to witeness it.

      So basically we concluded that teleporting an object by replication/destruction would be helpful to everyone except the object in question. Feel free to teleport burritos and things, but teleporting yourself would not be doing you a favor.

      The only solution I can think of would be to come up with a teleportation method that does not involve destruction. If we ever want to be bouncing around the Universe like in Star Trek, we're going to need to be able to travel the speed of light or use weird things like wormholes to get anywhere. Physically transferring object data from point A to point B is just too time consuming. You'll die of old age by the time you reach Neptune.
      • What if through some weird quantum entanglement your consiousness actually controlled both bodies at the same time, and it wasn't a seperate consiousness, would then have any problem allowing your first to be destroyed? (assuming it was a painless tranfer to individual atoms, or energy)
      • You'll die of old age by the time you reach Neptune.

        How ? Are you going to apply that eleet aging algorithm to my replica when it reaches there? Damn you !
      • Re:don't beam ME up. (Score:5, Interesting)

        by pkaral ( 104322 ) on Friday January 31, 2003 @09:25AM (#5195505)
        If you are destroyed and then replicated, you are effectively dead.
        ...
        So basically we concluded that teleporting an object by replication/destruction would be helpful to everyone except the object in question.

        Not necessarily. You assume that there is a "real me" and a "copy-of-me". However, if the replication process is perfect, then both the individuals that come out of the other end will for all practical purposes be me - look like me, feel like me, think like me, remember the things I remember and all of the other characteristics that together constitute me.

        The crux is, as you point out, the destruction of "the original copy" in the teleportation process. The implicit point in your argument is that the death of one of the copies matters. My question to that point is: To whom? Me-before-the-teleportation doesn't care - I will live on in the copy. The teleported copy is alive, so it doesn't matter to it. "The original copy" is "dead", and didn't mind before it happened.

        So it all ends up being very philosophical: Does it matter to be dead per se, or is it the absence of a continued existence (such as in the form of a copy) that is wrong about being dead? I would say the latter, and therefore you may teleport me as soon as your device is 99,99999% secure (or even less, if the destination is an exiting place).
        • The implicit point in your argument is that the death of one of the copies matters. My question to that point is: To whom? Me-before-the-teleportation doesn't care - I will live on in the copy.

          This is not a matter of who is the "real you" necessarily. You are the "original you" right now, and you will not be gaining any further memories once you are destroyed. Under the assumption that there is no spiritual connection between the "original you" and the "copy of you", these would be two separate entities with exact physical properties. If you somehow got in a fight with your identical clone, you would still care about who survives.

          Of course, the rest of the world only needs one copy of you. We need you to finish your job and pay your taxes, we could care less which is the more original copy, just so long as you are around like you always were.

          So yes, you will live on from my perspective, but the "original copy", that is, the copy you should care about, would be gone.
        • by FreeUser ( 11483 ) on Friday January 31, 2003 @10:47AM (#5195960)
          The crux is, as you point out, the destruction of "the original copy" in the teleportation process. The implicit point in your argument is that the death of one of the copies matters. My question to that point is: To whom? Me-before-the-teleportation doesn't care - I will live on in the copy. The teleported copy is alive, so it doesn't matter to it. "The original copy" is "dead", and didn't mind before it happened.

          The crux of the problem is really the SPEED of destruction. IIRC, over the course of seven years or so our bodies flush out and replace every cell in the body. That means that essentially we are composed of entirely different matter than we were seven years ago. Because the process is gradual and slow, we don't consider this to be a personal death and resurrection, we consider ourselves to be the same person we were seven, ten, or twenty years ago, though materially we are not.

          Or put another way, if we had perfect organ transplanting technology and could replace bits of ourselves as they wore out, when would we stop being us? After the first new knee-joint? Most would say no. After the first brain graft to replace that failing visual cortex? How about after the 79th brain graft, which replaces the last of the old, decaying material?

          Why should replacing this process, whether it be a natural one through the course of eating and shedding old cells or an artificial one through gradual organ replacement and grafts, with an instantaneous one be any different? Surely the mere compression of time doesn't fundamentally alter what is happening.

          So we are left with two choices. ONE: we do die over the course of 7 years, and we are not the same people we were 7 years ago, we are merely self-deluded copies, or TWO: we are the same people, in which case the length of time is irrelevant, and a teleported person will be as much the same person they were before, whether or not the atoms that comprise them are the same ones (teleported) or new ones with a quantum signature imposed.

          As to which belief one subscribes to, that is more of a religious or philosophical discussion, but whatever belief one chooses, one must apply it consistently to the natural replacement of ourselves, and any forthcoming organ transplant technologies, as much as one would to a hypothetical teleportatioin technology, and accept the implications of said belief.

          Personally, I believe I am the same person I was 10 years ago (modulo gradual personality changes), and I would have no problem teleporting myself around the universe at lightspeed if such facilities were available to me. And if I am deluding myself, I'm not deluding myself any more than all of us already are every time we look back on the myth of our own past, so either way it is a wash.
          • by jerde ( 23294 ) on Friday January 31, 2003 @04:32PM (#5198753) Journal
            Certain cells are NOT replaced regularly in our bodies, most importantly the central nervous system cells.

            The nerve that runs from a motor neuron in your brain down to a muscle in your lower leg is ONE cell, and that cell doesn't regenerate if it dies.

            This is why spinal cord injuries are such bad news, and why stem cell research (cells that DO grow) is so neat.

            So when you're 80 years old, some of your most important cells are also 80 years old! I think this will be the most limiting factor in exending human life span -- we'll figure out how to reset telomeres to cause infinite regeneration of cells, so your skin, muscles, bones will all stay 20 years old forever. But those pesky CNS cells... aren't used to dying and being replaced.

            But maybe they WILL be able to convince CNS cells to die, and get new ones to grow in their place. Conceivably, every 40 years you'd need a CNS cell flush, along with some rehabilitation to train in the new cells to function properly.

            Memory could even be preserved! What was the /. article a while ago about how every time we "remember" a memory, it's actually re-written in our cells? Sort of like a DRAM refresh process. So you get some new frontal-cortex cells grown, somehow walk through your memories, thus getting them resaved into the new cells, before you weed out the old ones.

            - Peter
          • Speed is not the problem. Is there more to us than quanta is the question and the problem.
            What if you could build a quantum duplicate without destroying the original. Which one would be the real you?

            If the entire sum of our being is composed of our physical components as opposed to stored in our physical components, then there is no difference.

            Either way, it's not speed that's the problem, it's a question of identity.
      • Sounds like one of those late-night conversations I've had many a time with my friends. I only wish we could replicate some more of those great buds we were smokin'.

        Anyone else hungry?
    • On the good side - imagine a future when you can purchase something online and have it in 5 min. by replicating it in your new replicator(duh) thats connected directly to your computer. You buy the item - then download the mass profile(perhaps a .mpr file) and send it to the replicator like you would a document to a printer.
      - very cool stuff


      The copyright and patent issues here are staggering.
    • by peterpi ( 585134 ) on Friday January 31, 2003 @08:38AM (#5195317)
      "You buy the item - then download the mass profile (perhaps a .mpr file) and send it to the replicator like you would a document to a printer." As I write this, KaZaA is downloading "sex_crazed_oriental_girls.mpr".
    • Paraphrasing (or quoting, this is from memory) the late Douglas Adams:

      "I Teleported home one night,
      With Ron and Jan and Meg.
      Ron stole Megan's heart away,
      and I got Janet's leg"
    • You bring up an interesting point. Lets say that you have all your matter destroyed and transported. Your body is rebuilt and all the miniscule chemical transactions dont miss a beat. Fine, but are you still YOU? Sure, there may be somebody standing there that looks, acts and thinks just like you, but are you left screaming in the void? How do you know if the "you" part (conciousness) gets transported? Same thing with a clone. If I can transfer all my memories and thoughts, sure, the world gets to have me forever and ever, but -I- am still going to die unless I transplant my brain into it. It would be a crappy way to discover if we actually do have souls.
    • Would it be too much to hope that in the far future we might inally be rid of the 8.3 filenames?

      Whatever you do, don't even SUGGEST the format should be *.mpX - RIAA will quash it instantly.
    • Just download the .mpr file from gnutella. Thats how I got all my new powermac.
  • Wow.

    Sure glad to see some of the improved teleportation arriving. I was getting mighty sick of the old style.

    I left my heart in San Francisco. Literally.
  • no Heisenberg (Score:5, Interesting)

    by dragonfly28 ( 466802 ) on Friday January 31, 2003 @07:59AM (#5195220)
    In this case one does not have to worry too much about Heisenberg uncertainty principle since no matter or energy is teleported. It is the quantum state which is transported. It's somewhat like this: not the electron is teleported but its spin direction; so up or down which then imprinted on the matter which is already present on the receiving end. It also looks a bit like the physics example from high school that nothing can go faster than light: put a lighthouse equipted with a laser somewhere in space and switch it on; at home you see the laserspot going from left to right on your bedroom wall; when you measure the speed of the spot on your wall it seems to be moving faster than the speed of light. This is completely true but there is nothing (energy or mass) which is moving faster than the light (the photons travel perpendicular to the spot!). More news can be found in the latest issue of Nature magazine, here [nature.com](for those of you who have acces otherwise google it)
    • According to Einstein, nothing can travel faster than light and this includes information. Heisenberg definitely comes into play with anything using entanglement, because the uncertainty principle is what predicted entanglement in the first place. The state of the photon was transferred instantly, but could not be known before it was verified through normal, conventional communication methods. Even though entanglement causes the "spooky action" there is no practical way to use that speed. The good part is that you know the signal hasn't been tampered with.

  • I publised today a story on the same subject. A team of scientists from the University of Geneva in Switzerland reports a great achievement in quantum teleportation. "The team teleported qubits carried by photons -- particles of light -- of 0.05 inch (1.3mm) wavelength in one laboratory onto photons of 0.06 inch (1.55mm) wavelength in another laboratory 180 feet (55 meters) away along 1.2 miles (2 kilometers) of fiber optic wire." But what can we do with this? "Scientists believe that this technology has practical applications in the field of quantum computing and quantum cryptology, technologies that hold promises for making computing both much faster and secure." But Star Trek fans will still have to wait for a while before human teleportation becomes possible. Check this column [weblogs.com] for more information or the original article [nationalgeographic.com] for all the details."
  • by nsjacob ( 541925 ) on Friday January 31, 2003 @08:05AM (#5195231) Journal
    The description is a little misleading. What is actaully "teleported" is information. In other words, the boffins were able to teleport information across a distance. The mechanism at work here is quantum entanglement wherein two particle maintain a sort of informational link after they have been in close interaction. The ability to transport information is no less important than moving matter. In fact, it's the information that we really care about. I can go into nauseating detail if anyone wants
  • poem (Score:3, Funny)

    by mlush ( 620447 ) on Friday January 31, 2003 @08:23AM (#5195268)

    I teleported home one night
    With Ron and Sid and Meg.
    Ron stole Meggie's heart away
    And I got Sidney's leg.

    Douglas Adams
    The Restaurant at the End of the Universe

  • From the article: "quantum teleportation produces pairs of "entangled" light particles that can be thought of as a pair of encoding and decoding rings. A message is combined with the encoding light particle. That combination goes to the recipient, who uses the decoding photon to decipher the message. Because no one else has the decoding photon, no one else can decipher the message." First question. Does it mean that we can somehow store that information being transmitted and reproduce it again and again, something like copying?? Wow, that would a new form of cloning... me and my evil copies will rule the earth(if we don't get on each other's nerves first that is). If not, so all I need is a hacker of some kind. Maybe he wont be able to decipher what he captured, but hey, for me it would probably mean being teleported without a head or smething. Not very interesting for aesthetic point of view I will say
  • by mccalli ( 323026 ) on Friday January 31, 2003 @08:33AM (#5195300) Homepage
    Salesman: "It's state of the art!"
    Customer: "But it doesn't work."
    Salesman: "That is the state of the art..."

    To be honest, I wasn't aware there was any base in teleportation from which to improve.

    Cheers,
    Ian

  • How do they know it's the same electron? What distinctive marks are they basing this on? If it's just one electron that disappears and another one that reappears, the applications would be rather more limited. I mean, if I step into a teleportation machine, I would quite like me rather than someone who looks just like me to step out a mile away.

    • For goodness sake, read the article. It's not an electron, it's a photon. It's also not the "same" photon. It's a copy of the photon in the same quantum configuration as the original. Now, given quantum configurations are all there is to such things, it effectively is the same - you can't tell the difference.

      Note that it's also effectively the same one in probability terms anyway - all electrons are just blips in spacetime's electron density probability. :)

      The whole point of teleportation is the transmission of information instantaneously. I.e. effective at infinite speed (or zero distance, depending how you look at it).
      • For goodness sake, read the article.

        Ooooh, I thought the idea was that one person read the article and we all asked him questions :-)

        To all intents and purposes...

        I can't say I'm reassured that it would be me rather than a copy of me who stepped out of the teleporter, although the question is probably closer to theology than physics...

  • by DrLudicrous ( 607375 ) on Friday January 31, 2003 @08:56AM (#5195365) Homepage
    Photons are massless particles. They are part of a large class of particles known as bosons. All particles are either bosons or fermions. Most massive particles with which we are familiar are fermions. These include electrons, neutrons, and protons, the basic building blocks of matter. Quarks too. Bosons are the particles that mediate the four forces between the fermions. Photons, for instance, are the carrier of the electromagnetic interaction. Gravitons are the bosons that give rise to the gravitational interaction.

    My point? It is one thing to teleport a photon, which is a massless boson. It is quite another thing to teleport a massive fermion, let alone a collection of them as would be found in any massive object of appreciable size. The physics of teleportation would most likely be very different, since the quantum mechanics and statistics of bosons are quite different from those of fermions. So don't get your hopes up yet regarding teleportation a la Star Trek.

    • My point? It is one thing to teleport a photon, which is a massless boson. It is quite another thing to teleport a massive fermion, let alone a collection of them as would be found in any massive object of appreciable size. The physics of teleportation would most likely be very different, since the quantum mechanics and statistics of bosons are quite different from those of fermions. So don't get your hopes up yet regarding teleportation a la Star Trek.

      I don't follow you. How does ANY of that show that it would be harder for fermions? You just listed a bunch of ways it would work differently. DIFFERENTLY. That doesn't imply "more difficult." Unless you have something you wish to elaborate on...

      Also. Not all bosons are force-carriers. Atomic nuclei can be bosons (think Rubidium-80). But we don't view atomic nuclei as the quanta of any particular field. Unless you want to believe in the "Rubidium-80 field" :-)

  • Heisenberg (Score:2, Interesting)

    Just to be pedantic... The Heisenberg Uncertainty principle does not just state that we cannot know both the velocity and position of an object, but that neither really exist independently until we measure them. Then measuring one effects the other.

    If we measure an object's velocity 100% perfectly, then it no longer has a definite position.


    Is that cool or what?
  • Heisenberg (Score:5, Informative)

    by MacDuff ( 31316 ) on Friday January 31, 2003 @09:02AM (#5195384)
    No, this is not a form of Star Trek's Heisenberg Compensator. The whole point of Heisenberg Uncertainty is that it is fundamental and unavoidable. You can get down to that magic h-bar/2pi, but no further. Period.

    If you could get around that uncertainty issue, it would blow away quantum cryptography entirely; the beauty of it from a security standpoint is that any eavesdropping can be detected, because observing the qubits (in this case, photons with particular spin) necessarily disrupts a certain portion of them.

    Yes, this means that a determined eavesdropper could mount an effective DoS by reading all the bits, but with that kind of access, there are easier ways. (Uh, how about cutting the fiber?)

    And it's not really teleportation. It's still fundamentally limited to the speed of light. "Teleporting" anything more complicated than a hydrogen atom is going to be insane due to (here it comes again) Heisenberg Uncertainty - you have to extract its state, but you can't do that to within that certain magic tolerance ...
  • I can just imagine all the boffins pacing around the lab trying to decide who will be the first to test the new mass trasporter.

    One of them is wearing a red sweater...
  • State of the Union (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Ryatt ( 604246 )
    Just think... we'll never have to complain about crazy teleporters cutting us off on the way to work again. Or potholes, I hope. ("Sorry I'm late to work, I hit a pothole while teleporting.")

    Now if this data was released just a little earlier, Bush could have addressed this in the State of the Union, rather than something as "old school" as hydrogen-based vehicles. Like those will ever see the light of day!
  • by Karhgath ( 312043 ) on Friday January 31, 2003 @09:10AM (#5195422)
    Ok, before everyone freaks, Quantum Teleportation isn't what most think it is. I've had a class and attended a few lectures by renowned Gilles Brassard from the University of Montreal, one of the founder of the field and especially quantum encryption, along with Charles H. Bennet from IBM and many others.

    First, "teleportation" only teleports "DATA", quantum information, like the spin of an electron. You won't see any beam me up scotty, despite how much people wants to and how wrong reporters are in artciles =)

    Second, here's a VERY brief info page on Quantum Teleportation on IBM's page:

    http://www.research.ibm.com/quantuminfo/teleport at ion/

    For more in depth info, try to find articles in magazines and books, especially one written by Charles H. Bennet and/or Gilles Brassard.

    One lecture by Brassard can be found online here, there's even a PDF:

    http://www.msri.org/publications/ln/msri/2002/qu an tumintro/brassard/2/

    They will explain this much better than my understanding will do. It's MUCH funnier and interesting when Brassard presents it, and it's MUCH harder to understand too. The few pictures and bits at the begining of the lecture are what Quantum Teleportation is NOT. Even renowned scientific publication are fooled by bad journalism, and even IBM went over it's head with this, it's kinda funny =)

    Anyway, "Beam me up Scotty" will never result from Quantum Teleportation, so don't hold your breath =) The article briefly states this tho, but only seems to gloss over it and even says "maybe", which is completely wrong.

    Also, Brassard stated MANY times that is does not violate ANYTHING, and especially not Heisenberg uncertainty principle. The original DATA must be destroy, then it is "rebuilt" on the other side, and because of a property of EPR, "entanglement", you never mesure the quantum information completely, thus not violating Heisenberg uncertainty principle.

    One last note, the following bit on the article is probably the most simplistic non-explanation of what is Quantum Teleportation:

    "A message is combined with the encoding light particle. That combination goes to the recipient, who uses the decoding photon to decipher the message. Because no one else has the decoding photon, no one else can decipher the message."
  • Now I just have to sit and wait for them to come out with a comercial version of a tele-magic 9000. I could find about a thousand uses for the thing. Running marathons in under a nanosecond, teleport myself straight into a MGM Grand vault, go to Jamaica for lunch...I'm getting dizzy, better stop.
  • by Seahawk ( 70898 ) <tts@nOsPAm.image.dk> on Friday January 31, 2003 @09:26AM (#5195509)
    A whole new definition of the term vaporware?
  • I'm curious - just how practical is this going to be in terms of the power required? Is this going to be one of those things that takes so much power consumption to work on a large scale that it's impractical?
    • I have a book titled 'The Physics of Star Trek' ... If I remember correctly, the power consumption for completely dissassebling all atoms of one human being was on par with the total power output of the sun for several seconds. Weenies, anyone?
  • by Peaker ( 72084 ) <gnupeaker@nOSPAM.yahoo.com> on Friday January 31, 2003 @10:16AM (#5195776) Homepage
    Many people here express worry that teleporting humans actually destroys them before recreating someone else in another position.

    I want to counter that with two points:

    According to Quantum theory, no particles or physical entities have an identity other than the collection of their properties. This means that two particles of the same type and with the same properties are completely indistinguishable. This means that a human being destroyed, but replicated exactly somewhere else, will have the exact same properties aside for position, in other words - moved. If you're worried that changing your position is a problem, you're already dead :)

    Many human cells are constantly dying and get replaced. Not many of the cells in the human body existed when the human was born. This means that your existing body/cells have been destroyed and recreated already - you simply didn't know.

    • two particles of the same type and with the same properties are completely indistinguishable.
      Yes, they are equal. Are they the same particle?

      This means that a human being destroyed, but replicated exactly somewhere else, will have the exact same properties
      Now, suppose you replicate exactly someone, but do not destroy the original. Again I ask, Are they the same person?

      Many human cells are constantly dying and get replaced. Not many of the cells in the human body existed when the human was born. This means that your existing body/cells have been destroyed and recreated already - you simply didn't know.
      Now this is a really interesting argument. Suppose you have some kind of degenerative disease and you need a prostetic leg. Later you need an arm, eben later you need a new heart. Suppose that the disease destroys even your brain cells and you need some kind of artificial storage to yield your conscience.

      When do you stop being alive? When do you stop being yourself?. Dang if I know

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Telefragged? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by chiller2 ( 35804 )
    So what will happen if you leave something in the same place that the cloned atoms are reassembled in?

    Wouldn't there always be something there, even if it was just air, in which case what happens to the atoms that existed in the space before? Do they have to be destroyed in order to make space, or are they displaced / merged?
  • by eric2hill ( 33085 ) <eric@[ ]ck.net ['ija' in gap]> on Friday January 31, 2003 @10:56AM (#5196019) Homepage
    "Very funny, Scotty. Now beam down my clothes."
  • This isn't a transporter story, this is a story about secure communications.

    If you can transmit messages with entangled photons over an optical network, you can prevent anyone from "tapping" the line and observing your communication without you knowing. If someone fucks with one of the entangled photons, the other party will know.
  • by pclminion ( 145572 ) on Friday January 31, 2003 @11:08AM (#5196094)
    No violation here.

    There's a rule in QM called "no cloning" which means you cannot make an exact copy of a quantum state without destroying that state. In other words, the Heisenberg uncertainty principle prevents you from duplicating a photon precisely. It does not stop you from teleporting that photon to a new location, thereby destroying the "original" photon.

    This is done through a dual process. Part of the photon state is transmitted "classically," by measuring the photon and sending the information along a wire. The other part of the photon state is not measured, but "travels" to the new location via entanglement. The two pieces of information are put back together at the other side to recreate the photon. The process of making the classical measurement is what destroys the original photon. This destruction is unavoidable -- you can't end up with an identical copy of the photon, while still keeping the first photon.

    Star Trek transporters could be a theoretical possiblity. But replicators cannot exist, because that would involve exact cloning of quantum states, which is impossible.

    • Heisenberg is driving along, and a cop pulls him over. The cop asks "Do you know how fast you were going?" And Heisenberg says "No... But I know where I am!" Badum-ching!
  • Employing a facet of quantum mechanics that Albert Einstein called "spooky action at a distance," scientists have taken particles of light, destroyed them and then resurrected copies more than a mile away.

    Previous experiments in so-called quantum teleportation moved particles of light about a yard. The findings could aid the sending of unbreakable coded messages, which is limited to a few tens of miles.

    The new experiment used longer wavelengths of light than earlier ones, letting the scientists copy the light through standard glass fiber found in fiber optic cables.


    So what they did is destroy light, use light to transfer the "destroyed" light a mile away and "ressurrect" that light? That doesn't sound like teleportation to me. Its like using a laser beam to send a laser beam.
  • " But teleporting something from the everyday world like a person that contains more than a trillion atoms is highly unlikely, if not impossible."

    The teleportation of humans, objects and anything else is already possible and has been for thousands of years, but not with the aid of technological gadgets. The ability to create something out of nothing has been spoken about in religion since it's very conception and up to modern times.

    Now before you scoff at the rest of the post thinking it is religious crap please consider the following scientific aphorisms:

    1) There can only be one truth/one set of laws that govern the Universe. A simplistic example, gravity does not go both up and down and/or sideways, when you drop an object it always falls down. Over the last many centuries our scientists have proved over and over again that things in our physical universe behave according to a set of laws. Laws which even to this day science is discovering, which means we do not as of yet know or understand all of these laws. Therefore one can conclude that the very scientific community we praise and cheer for thinking they have all the answers - that very same community admits their ignorance. Every single day they claim to be discovering this or that. If you are at the discovering stage, then you can not possibly know everything.

    2) If you read both ancient religious texts from several different religions (Christian, Buddhism, Hinduism, to name but a small few), all of them contain accounts of so called "miracles". What is a miracle? Is it really something that defies the natural laws of the Universe? No, that's hogwash. You can not claim the Universe is has 1 set of laws and in the same breath claim those laws can be somehow put aside and something takes place which defies those laws. That is just absolutely ridiculous - if we've learned anything from science it is exactly THAT! What is more likely as I've stated is that we don't know how all the laws work yet and when we see or hear of something which seems to defy the few laws we do currently know, we tend to say it is lies, or magic, or miracles or anything but something NORMAL. However; let's wind the clock back a few centuries and let's pretend we could teleport/travel back in time and bring with us some gadgets with us, say a video camera. We walk into the most advanced city on Earth at that time, say the Roman empire for example, and we tape Julius Caesar giving a speech.. then we walk a few miles away and show somebody who was not able to be at the speech presentation and we hit the play button. To the ignorant watching the movie playback on the LCD screen this is nothing short of a miracle, a magical act, how can after all Caesar and his entire palace fit inside this little box? And how can you possibly make him give the same speech exactly the same time after time???? I think you get my point. Those that have performed great feats in the past were not doing something beyond what is physically possible. A video camera that works in 2002 will work just as well in the year 1000 B.C. The laws of the Universe have not evolved over 3000 years - they are the same. Eternal and Immutable!

    Miracles are given that name, IMO by those who do not understand how a specific feat was conceived. How did Christ turn water into wine? Or resurrect, or cure people with touch? How do Indian Yogi's or ZEN Masters perform acts of levitation or how are they able to accelerate the growth of plants by a factor of 20-100 times, making them grow right before your very eyes? How have so many Christian saints and Hindu Yogis performed acts of Bi-location (being in 2 places physically at the same time, witnessed being there and having conversations by different people at different locations at the same time?) These are just truly very few examples of the so called acts we name miracles and they have not all been performed by a single person, or claimed by a single religion. In fact at the core of every major religion you will find such miracles and claims of the so called super-natural, more correctly assigned the name of the occult mysteries (occult meaning hidden - do not confuse this world with some of the crazy cults going around). But the reality is not that it is super-natural... the reality is that it is natural, the average person just does not understand how such an act is performed. And this may sound like a surprise to you but believe me intellectual understanding will NEVER allow you to mimic such miraculous acts. The very same people

    At any rate here, my point is, man can only accomplish what he is capable of imagining. If he can not imagine it, he can not create it.

    But let's get back on topic, so how can teleportation be accomplished? Well, let's take a look at a simpler version of teleportation - clairvoyance. What is clairvoyance as most people understand it? It is the reading of thoughts, in particular images from the past or future and somehow having access to them in the present. This is a very common so called unexplained miracle performed today, however it is not called a miracle as much by most people because it has become far more common place and therefore a little bit more acceptable and considered closer to normal, yet not quite there because even the people who perform such feats can not explain in scientific or any other intelligible words how this is accomplished, at least not to the satisfaction of a scientist wanting to replicate the feat.

    The fact that not Jesus, nor any Yogi, Zen Master, Christian Saint, or any high ranking Buddhist master are considered to be extremely high intellects possessing at the tip of their tongues the answers to all scientific questions serves to us as proof that it is not through scientific intelligence that teleportation can be accomplished today. It is therefore an act feasible today not by scientists possessing great intellect, but by their counterparts - the true spiritual man!

    My friends, I could go on, and on and on... My point is science may one day be able to explain in intelligible language how teleportation of a human being can be accomplished, but I guarantee you it will not be within our life times and whenever it does one day become possible - if by scientists - it shall require very fancy highly complex and expensive machines. If you wish to teleport within your life time, your best bet are to not only study, but in particularly practice the occult sciences - i.e. Alchemy (the founding science of Chemistry initiated by Paracelsus - a science which combined chemistry and spirituality and philosophy in one great art, but the 2 more important parts of it have now been thrown out by those who chose not to see beyond what their eyes show them in the physical), Astrology (the founding science of Astronomy - Astrology combined the science of Astronomy with the spiritual and philosophical, but again modern-ignorant man has stripped out 2/3rds of that and chose to look at only what he could see. If you chose to ignore 2/3rds of reality, then do not expect to be able to understand the whole of the Universal laws! If modern scientists would learn this, we'd be centuries ahead in every aspect of evolution than we are today).

    Enough said. "Seek and ye shall find!"
    Now go seek.. I have ;-)

    -Adeptus

    PS. "The wise every seeketh that which once known, ALL is known!" - One may come to realize this scientifically through yet to be conceptualized "theory of everything" or one may achieve it today through spiritual enlightenment. The latter of which will provide you not with mere knowledge, but with the experience of the ALL - to experience ALL there is, was and there will be is to be omnipresent, omnisencient and even omnipotent - That my friends is to truly know GOD. Once this takes place, the act of teleportation will be as amazing to you as a grain of sand in the Sahara!
  • Is that this technology whould have more immediate effect on computing. This is an important step towards quantum computing. Why does the media focus on the sensationalized possible outcome (beaming people) and not the less glitzy, but HUGH impact of what this means to computing. This would revolutionize computing the way the transistor did.
  • by the IETF. At least it's so according to this RFC [ietf.org].

    I think this'll be included in the next version of KMail

  • by j3110 ( 193209 ) <samterrellNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Friday January 31, 2003 @01:39PM (#5197247) Homepage
    Has anyone measured it? Wouldn't it just shoot relativity to hell if quantem teleportation transferred information instantaneously?

    For instance, I could measure exactly how fast we were moving and in what direction by measuring our time skew by synchronizing to a quantum state to measure the ammount of time it takes for a photon to travel so far. Basically, I would have an independant, third party perspective of time. You might just be able to measure the time skew by carrying a clock from point A to B, then point A recieves information from point B, and they both record the time. Either the clock traveling from point A to B was traveling faster, slower, or the same as the person from A (depends on weather the Earth is moving toward A, B, or neither). This means you could measure the discrepancy, and calculate if relativity is true, thereby proving or disproving the theory once and for all. (Though it would seriously be undermined in a lot of ways, you could prove part of it being true.) Either that, or we can patch the theory some more to make it work in another way it doesn't seem to. Einstein knew about these situations, a good study of this may help lead a little closer to a unified theory?

    The only problem I could see is that you wouldn't know what you were sending, but how could quantum computers be useful if you couldn't set at least some value?

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