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Space

Space Shuttle External Tank Webcam 131

Posted by chrisd from the sorry-no-wishlist dept.
mpd2014 writes "When the next shuttle takes off to the space station on October 2nd it will have a new webcam attached to the external tank that is sure to provide spectacular images. If you're interested in the schematics and technical details NASA has also made those available."
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Space Shuttle External Tank Webcam More

Space Shuttle External Tank Webcam

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  • Now we get to see them fumble with those tiny screws..

  • webcam in space (Score:4, Funny)

    by bongobongo ( 608275 ) on Friday September 13, 2002 @03:22AM (#4249857)
    personally, i'm looking forward to alien/spacewoman upskirt shots...
  • in my opinion, if they have the webcam, the should also have the blog [blogger.com], so that we would be able to read their comments about their experience in space! =)
    • in my opinion, if they have the webcam, the should also have the blog [blogger.com], so that we would be able to read their comments about their experience in space! =)

      Considering NASA's funding problems they might as well become complete CAM WHORES and post a wishlist URL of gifts that their admiring fans could give them.

    • The Quest Project [nasa.gov] already provided an early version of journals (blogs) as well as interactive chats and web casts with NASA crew and astronauts. It was primarily aimed at the K-12 audience though.

  • and everyone is thinking... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Prong_Thunder ( 572889 ) on Friday September 13, 2002 @03:25AM (#4249869)
    "hey, I can see my house from here"

  • It has been onboard already (Score:5, Informative)

    by jukal ( 523582 ) on Friday September 13, 2002 @03:25AM (#4249870) Journal
    According to this release [eclipticenterprises.com] by the company [eclipticenterprises.com] which makes the RocketCams [eclipticenterprises.com]: "2002 Aug 21: Two Ecliptic RocketCam(TM) systems have provided launch-to-orbit onboard views during the inaugural launch of the Atlas 5 rocket. The launch was a complete success, taking Eutelsat's Hotbird 6 comsat from Cape Canaveral and placing it into the desired transfer orbit. Both RocketCam(TM) cameras captured dramatic views looking aft: one from outside the Atlas 5's second-stage skin and one from inside the aft end of the second stage. "

    Apparently, this is just the first time it can be publicly accessed.

    • Re:It has been onboard already (Score:5, Informative)

      by FrostedWheat ( 172733 ) on Friday September 13, 2002 @05:28AM (#4250158)
      And this section [eclipticenterprises.com] of there website, you can view these videos. Very much publicly accessible.

      They even provide MPEGs for those Quicktime-impared.
      • I watched the Mars Odyssey launch on NASA TV that had one of these cameras onboard. Most impressive thing I've watched on TV in a long time! Video started before launch and ended with payload separation. I believe they had TWO cameras on that one, one outside one the main booster and one inside the payload bay area. It was neat watching the protective nosecone being blown off during deployment! I imagine the shuttle launch will last much longer than Titan launches since it moves so much slower than they do initially.
    • Actually it's been done several times. If you go to Space.com or Spaceflightnow.com you can see archive clips of rocket launches. My personal favorites are of the Mars Odyssey 2001 launch.

      It's really neat watching the rocket's SRBs seperate and spiral off.
    • This is the first time its been with the Space Shuttle as opposed to just a rocket launch.
    • From the first link [spaceref.com] in the /. article:

      STS-112 will be 21st launch for RocketCam (if you don't count the first demo launch in 1997). All of the RocketCam's have worked so far. A total of about three dozen cameras have been flown.

      ...

      The view of the Earth falling away will be familiar to anyone who has watched a Delta rocket launch lately - but will be a first for the Space Shuttle program.



  • To have an idea of the picture you're gonna get from that camera, take a look here [eclipticenterprises.com].
    If you ask me, it's really not that novel, oke this rocket is a bit bigger...but it still just goes up....
    • If you ask me, it's really not that novel, oke this rocket is a bit bigger...but it still just goes up....

      Yes.. but think of how it would look if we have another challenger incident :)

      • Yes.. but think of how it would look if we have another challenger incident :)


        Hmmmm... some weird loops, the cam is annihilated, the cam windows blacks and you'd still have to tune into CNN to find out what is going on?
  • A webcam would offer shocking quality; you'd get to see the shuttle on the pad, and then the next frame update would be a cloud. Plus imagine the risk to the mission caused by the Shuttle crew continually being asked to be a little more erotic with their clipboards. I knew NASA was strapped for cash, but cheesey zero-gee pornos?

    Actually, where's my wallet...

    • Zero-gee porn has been done before. See The Uranus Experiment [abso.net] (yeah there's naughty stuff there, but look up the name on this fancy intarweb thingy)

      In fact, the THREE episodes all have music by Liam Howlett, the guy behind the Prodigy.
  • that web cams server load will be sky-high

    • Re:hope it doesnt get /.ed (Score:4, Interesting)

      by billstr78 ( 535271 ) on Friday September 13, 2002 @04:08AM (#4249989) Homepage
      It will. Unless the frame rate is extremely low, an event of this popularity will quickly consume a 100Mb/sec line. This was the max Ames Research Center (NASA) could host a couple of years ago, but they are probably going with a 3rd party provider. Let's hope they have lots of high bandwith mirrors load balanced and sprikled accross the country. This is the inherernt problem with a popular live event comensing at one specific moment and using at least 20Kb/sec per viewer. I am not saying it won't go off without a hitch, but when I interned at Ames, every event we hosted saturated the 100Mbit/sec line we had that went straight to an OC21 backbone pipe.

  • Not liftoff (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Perdo ( 151843 ) on Friday September 13, 2002 @03:29AM (#4249884) Homepage Journal
    The good pictures will be from seperation and re-entry.

    I still think they should fly the otherwise wasted tank into orbit to be used as parts or huge additions to the space station.

    Multiply the space station's internal volume by 10 in just one trip. After all the tank is a high pressure vessel. It should be able to hold 14.5 lb/sq in atmospheric.

    Just give the shuttle a bit more power, drop the boosters and park the tank next to ISS.

    Would make ISS look like a toy.
    • The external tank is not just a huge hollow beer can - within it are separate tanks of liquid H and O2, along with insulation, piping, etc...

      I don't know if the actual visible part of the tank is high pressure (it probably is, or could be easily made to be), but to be of any use as an ISS component the tank would need a major redesign.

    • Re:Not liftoff (Score:3, Insightful)

      by DeanAsh ( 531960 )
      The shuttle main engines have been placed central to the mass of the joined shuttle/tank. The OMS engines (Orbital Maneuvering System), being placed much higher, are not. I expect the shuttle would tumble in orbit if the OMS were activated with the tank attached.

      The reaction-control jets will have similar troubles. Remember the control problems the astronauts in Apollo 13 faced when trying to control the LEM with the command/service modules still joined?

      • Not quite. To gain extra altitude on some flights, the OMS are activated in tandem with the SSMEs during orbital injection.

        I do not know, however, if the OMS were ever used after MECO and before ET SEP.
        • Not quite. To gain extra altitude on some flights, the OMS are activated in tandem with the SSMEs during orbital injection.


          I do not know, however, if the OMS were ever used after MECO and before ET SEP.

          Not quite. The OMS can be used during second stage for an abort. They could, but would not, be used during a non-abort, since their fuel is needed for orbital maneuvers and deorbit. Moreover, during a nominal mission, it is more efficient to use the OMS for Holman transfer to a higher orbit than to use it to push the extra mass of the tank and fuel in parallel with the SSMEs.


          There is no reason that the OMS would ever be used between MECO and ET Sep. That is only a few seconds. Also, as mentioned before, they do not have the control authority required with the ET attached.


          The SSMEs cannot be used after ET Sep. There is no fuel for them except a few pounds trapped in the lines, and even that is vented and purged to prevent ice damage.

    • Re:Not liftoff (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Saeger ( 456549 )
      I agree 100% about reusing the Shuttle's External Tanks.

      NASA must have a giant stick up its ass to bring the ETs almost completely into orbit, only to let them burn up in the atmosphere.

      I still haven't heard a reasonable explaination as to why this great idea [spaceislandgroup.com] has been ignored for so long. IMO, it's because the idea of "Reuse/Recycle/Reduce" is not compatible with getting maximum tax funding. They'd rather blow billions on a shiny new ISS (where maintenance consumes scientific work) than on boosting and retrofitting the large ETs.

      --

    • Re:Not liftoff (Score:3, Informative)

      by Guppy06 ( 410832 )
      "The good pictures will be from seperation and re-entry."

      Um... no. Obviously you haven't seen this flick here [nasa.gov] (some stills are available here [nasa.gov]). The video from a similar camera mounted on a Delta II is simply stunning. Seriously, I can't begin to describe how beautiful it is, you need to go watch it. I have yet to get tired of watching it.

      Re-entry pictures are going to be few if any. But I'm already drooling at the thought of video like this from a shuttle launch.

    • Re:Not liftoff (Score:2, Informative)

      by ek_adam ( 442283 )

      The tank is not built to withstand vacuum. Some of the resins in the external tank would start to sublimate in vacuum. It would last for a several days in space, but not the months or years that would be required for a space station.

      They could redesign an external tank that would survive in space, but it would be significantly heavier and would greatly reduce the payload.

    • ET reuse (Score:3, Informative)

      by dpilot ( 134227 )
      The name of the story was, "Tank Farm Dynamo" about a privatized effort to reuse external tank, written by David Brin. I read it as part of a collection bound in dead tree form, but it's available on the web at: http://www.orbit6.com/et/tankfarm.htm
    • What about the smell? Not to mention you'd have to scrub the thing clean from all the residual fuel left inside and pressurize it before it could be occupied. That's a LOT of air...
      .
    • Actually the last bit of the powered phase of the shuttle flight drives back toward the earth to give the tank a trajectory that will intersect the atmosphere. After release of the tank I believe the OMS is then used to guarantee that the shuttle itself does not reenter prematurely. Thus keeping the tank would actually save fuel. Maneuvering with the center of gravity offset by the mass of the tank would probably cost a little in fuel use but probably way less than the orbit adjustment after release of the tank.
  • This is a much cooler way of showing the world a Web cam that destroys itself than that Crushing Experience [slashdot.org].

    Scores so far:
    Strapped to the Space Shuttle: 9.7
    Sitting in a British museum: 4.2

  • X-10: It's not just for vouyers anymore!

    They should put two cameras on it though.. the other one should be in the same housing, but facing forward. That would be a nice view of the splashdown of the external tank...

  • That's cool but... (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Whose tax dollars paid for this? The shuttle-to-earth data link has to be ridiculously expensive to operate knowing how the US Gov. does things...
    • Rest assured that the com link between the shuttle and mission control already exists. The cost of the webcam and the infrastructure required to stream it is a drop in the bucket, no a molecule in the bucket of the vast expences that the shuttle already racks up.
    • If its the government (and NASA with the 70's era components), then they are probably still using a 28.8K modem (albiet bought with a hefty markup).

      The next step will be to upgrade to a 56K. In a couple of years they'll go with a cable modem, they just need to find a big enough spool to hold all that CAT5.

  • ...to learning about the combined results of zero-g and the /. effect.
  • Anybody got the actual URL of this thing? I'm thinking y'all could Slashdot it now so it'll be nice and empty come launch time...

    That is, assuming it's woodpecker-proof. [nasa.gov]
  • They have webcams.. and Nasa still runs the shuttle on computer hardware from the 70's. Why do I find that funny?
    • .. and Nasa still runs the shuttle on computer hardware from the 70's.
      If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
    • Actually, the computer systems have had several upgrades in their history. Do your homework before you crack a funny joke w/ no backing :-D
    • Considering that very few modem component makers are desiging or building newer systems that can withstand the radiation and other riggors of space travel, I'm not terribly surprised.

      You don't need a shitload of computational power to run the shuttle. What you do need is a computer that will actually work in space. And guess what, Sparky? That brand new Pentium 4 or Athlon you've got on your desk won't work. The systems need to be hardened at the fab level in order to work.
  • Now we will be able to Slashdot the Space Shuttle. Personally, i hope it won't crash.
  • This thing has more information available publicly than my car probably has. (Not that I think it shouldn't).

    I'll bet if one of the astronauts wanted to sign the external tank, they'd have to test the ink for combustability, and analyse the difference in solar heating. ;-)

    My favourite quote: "Considering the strong controls and verifications in place, the overall likelihood of occurrence of a catastrophic hazard remains "improbable", and all hazard causes are 'Controlled'"
  • As geeky as this may sound, this thing's cool!

    I figured "webcam=crappy picture", but after checking out the samples, I'll definitely tune in for the webcast (if there is any)

    Nothing like giving space/tech/cool stuff people another way to watch the launch.

    d3vpsaux: Two Geek Thumbs-Up
  • How much extra drag will this cause, and how much harder will the engines have to work to compensate? Will it have to carry a lot more fuel? Will it be ripped off my the force of the wind rushing past?
    • The cam [eclipticenterprises.com] has a very slim profile an compared to the enourmous circumference of the tank it is strapped to, it won't make much difference
    • My figures are probably off, but from memory I'd heard that's it's in the ballpark of $10G/LB of rocket fuel to send something into orbit. I'm guessing that this cam only weighs a few ounces at most. At least one would hope! Can anyone verify my figures?

      • That is one of those vague numbers that really does not mean much in the real world. A few years ago, a project I had been working on, SRTM [nasa.gov], finally went to Florida to be launched on the shuttle. One of the surprising things I found out was that they were also bolting several hundred pounds of lead weight into the cargo bay, basically to balance the load. This is for the same reason airplane pilots (are supposed to) calculate "weight and balance".

        So basically, something as lightweight as this camera, even counting the two S band antennas and transmitters, probably has no real effect on fuel consumption.


  • Estes has been doing this since the sixties. :)
    see. [angelfire.com]

  • It's a Rocketcam! Wohoo! (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 13, 2002 @04:40AM (#4250069)
    This is really what the shuttle has been missing. After watching dozens of launches through streaming meadia, shuttle really has been behind Delta and others which have had the rocketcam for years. I am sure going to be following the next launch closely.

    For previous rocketcam footage, check http://www.eclipticenterprises.com/gallery_rocketc am.shtml [eclipticenterprises.com].
  • Hey, at least this is not another repost.
  • if it blows up in the sky due to slashdot effect
  • Occasional live webcasts from space are nice. But I think it's confusing to call it a "webcam". I expect webcams to be on the web most of the time and to be hooked up more or less directly to the web. Webcams need to be on and there even if nothing is happening. A live broadcast going into a streaming server occasionally doesn't strike me as something to be called a webcam.
  • I just hope NASA will broadcast the camstream on a very good line with a very good server...
  • I hope they release the entire launch. The movies on the site in one of the comments (while VERY cool) were all less than thirty seconds or so. I know, maybe racing through clouds is boring, but I'd still like the see the entire thing.

    I would have thought something like this would have happened a while ago, and I honestly expected a little more commercial exploitation of technology like this to pick up interest in shuttle launches. Can you imagine an IMAX camera on the outside tank? Or how about something from the inside, with sound and perhaps a unstable mount (a little shaking would make do a lot for conveying what it's like to really fly).

    Better yet, how about a camera mounted on the shuttle itself for a landing? (think dashboard, what a view.)

    • Better yet, how about a camera mounted on the shuttle itself for a landing? (think dashboard, what a view.)

      When I was at Kennedy Space Center [sic], and it must have been 10 years ago now, they had an IMAX film, "The Dream is Alive". That had some nice shots of the runway as seen from the flight deck. Landing a Cessna 150 was never the same, after that :)

      I've seen several IMAX films since, and none have come close to being as good as this one.

    • The article [spaceflightnow.com] I read indicates it will be one starting 10 minutes before launch and last until a short time after separation.

  • not a webcam (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Lumpy ( 12016 ) on Friday September 13, 2002 @07:24AM (#4250288) Homepage
    This, after looking at the specs and designs they have online, is a regular camera with a regular NASA style live RF feed back to ground control... The only thing that could possibly make it a webcam would be that someone would take that video feed and encode it for the web. Something they did not mention was going to happen.

    calling that a webcam is the same as calling a studio camera and camera crew a webcam... It is another monitoring camera / eye-candy camera added to the shuttle launch vehicle.. IT is identical to most cameras that NASA uses on it's launch vehicles.

    Too bad that it's a throw-away one time use item.... it's built like a tank and would probably last 100 years at a weather station or pointing at my back yard.

  • 3G's and SubZero Temps... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Eric_Cartman_South_P ( 594330 ) on Friday September 13, 2002 @07:26AM (#4250292)
    ...but can it handle a slashdotting?

    10...9...8...7...EMERGENCY LAUNCH HOLD!

    "We have a warning light!" "What's wrong!" "The External Fuel Tank, It's The Camera. It melted."


  • Testing reveals: ET Shuttle Observation Camera STS-112 PAR Flight Hardware Certification Summary [...] No issues ".

    Just as long as they don't put a hairline crack in the tank when they screw on the web cam.

  • While you're waiting for the NASA stuff - Check these guys out:

    The Gates brothers [gbrocketry.com] flies some of the coolest rockets in HPR today, and they have hands-down the best video [gbrocketry.com].

    /August, especially likes the pad-cams and any staging separations.

  • visit Camville.com [camville.com]

    Very /. friendly since it's build on php, linux, mySql and 100% ad free.

    I'll have to add this as a news feature.
  • I can just see the X10 popup adds now...
  • A great movie of the launch from a head-down fuselage camera.

    A 3MB version is here - http://stardust.jpl.nasa.gov/movie/part10.html [nasa.gov]

    The biggie is here - http://stardust.jpl.nasa.gov/photo/launchanim.html [nasa.gov]
  • Seeing this makes me wonder what took them so long. If they had done this during the Challenger days, we'd probably have a better idea of what went wrong, and we wouldn't have had the setbacks with the space program that we did during the late '80's. Even thogh it couldn't bring back the lives lost, we would have had answers to what happened a little faster, which woul dhave helped the process along. Ideally, they should mount these wherever there may be something that needs to be monitored.

    I know NASA has sensors everywhere on the Shuttle to monitor everything, but sometimes when sensors give strange readings, it's nice to be able to see what the actual end result is manifesting as.

    I'm just saying it's long overdue, and could be used to provide more than just cool video footage of a launch. Two cameras coud interleave their picture at 15fps, and you'd get two full streams. But NASA will probably never do that.
    • "Seeing this makes me wonder what took them so long. If they had done this during the Challenger days, we'd probably have a better idea of what went wrong,"

      Well... actually, they know exactly what went wrong. There are several cameras on and around the launchpad, and after much analysis they found out exactly when the O-ring broke seal (during initial firing if I recall correctly). An extra cam may have helped, but really, they've got it covered.
  • Wouldn't /.'ing the webcam cause enough heat to set of the highly explosive chemicals in the tank?

    Although, I gotta admit, it'd be an impressive explosion.

    -Ed

    docbrown.net [docbrown.net] NEW!
    Graphic Design, Web Design, Role-Playing Games...all the good stuff

    • Err, well I realize that was an attempt at humor. But since I tend to be pedantic, the "chemicals" in the tank, hydrogen and oxygen, are only highly explosive when mixed.

  • They turned the camera on for a temporary test. Here's an actual preview of what the shot looks like from the Shuttle. Gonna be pretty cool.

    http://www.spaceflightnow.com/station/sts112/02091 2shuttlecam/ [spaceflightnow.com]
  • - a webcam on a satellite: check for yourself what the weather looks like where you're going. - webcams on the moon, one of them showing the earth seen from the moon. and of course... - plenty of webcams on Mars, monitoring the red planet in case the little green men thta live up there (?) show up. B.
  • Did anyone notice that there are a bunch of o-rings on the camera assembly? I can see it now:

    "Ok, that was pretty good resolution - let's go for hi-res. Throttle up the camera feed to 106%."

    BOOM!

  • I didnt think this was the first time for an external camera on the space shuttle - I thought ive seen many clips of the space shuttle from the angle the website represented. I dont understand why NASA would have waited as long as it has though to put a camera on the shuttle. Well if the space shuttle had a camera, I sure wish MIR would have had a camera when it fell to earth - that would have been very cool.
  • ... if the shuttle blows-up again, à la Challenger...
  • Wondering... I remember seeing footage of Apollo rocket stage separations. Like rocketcam, these shots were aft-facing. Why didn't they think to install a camera that could record the launch itself?
  • Scpace.com has had nasa tv for quite some time. i watch all the space walks streamed over the net. check it out.
  • I've often wondered why the external tank is allowed to burn up in the atmosphere. It's a very large insulated tank with two chambers for oxygen and hydrogen. With some extra fuel it could be put into orbit and converted for human habitation. Imagine the number of tanks that have been up in the span of the shuttle project. It seems with that number of tanks we could have several large wheels in orbit around the earth. The tanks currently float around in a decaying orbit until they burn up in the atmosphere.
  • I used to use Spaceflight Now to watch launches and retrieve video later of those I was not able to watch. Now, the videos are locked behind a password which they demand a fee for.

    As a taxpayer who (willingly, mind you! note my name!) supports the space program already with tax dollars, I don't feel I should have to pay to view something I already helped to fund. While I still read SFN's text coverage, which is still free, I can't view the videos.

    Is there another site out there that posts timely (SFN does it same day or next day) videos of launches? And if the Ecliptic's site fails to post the entire sequence, all 10+ minutes of it, where might I find it?

    Heck, what about archives of on-orbit ops, other launch shots, reentry/approach, and landing? I've a video project in mind that I'd like to use footage for...

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