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Science Technology

Superfast Biodegradable Plastic 38

Posted by michael from the this-message-will-self-destruct dept.
Vish writes "Anyone's who ever seen the grim flotsam of plastic bags which pollute developing countries should take heart from this new bio-degradable plastic from Australia - made from cornstarch and breaks down into the air. At last, some decent technology. Even Linux isn't this cool."
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Superfast Biodegradable Plastic More

Superfast Biodegradable Plastic

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  • Limited uses, unfortunately (Score:3, Insightful)

    by !splut ( 512711 ) <sput@alum.rp[ ]du ['i.e' in gap]> on Tuesday June 25, 2002 @04:53PM (#3764958) Journal
    Well, it's good, but it isn't the great solution to our plastic pollution problems. As the author of the article points out, the thing that makes the material biodegradable - its water-solubility - is also its major drawback. I wouldn't anticipate starch-based bags replacing traditional plastic ones in the shopping bag market any time soon. Perhaps in other packaging markets...

    Starch-based replacements for plastics aren't a new concept. Ever had something shipped to you packed in those cylindrical extruded starch packing peanuts? They're out there replacing the old foam polystyrene ones to some extent, and they dissolve in water quite readily. And taste pretty bland, unfortunately. :^)

    Now if they could make a plastic-like material out of a more water resistant polysaccharide like chitin or cellulose, then the environmentalists could start celebrating.
    • I wouldn't anticipate starch-based bags replacing traditional plastic ones in the shopping bag market any time soon.
      Actually, I could picture that. Shopping bags only need to be strong enough to get home. I suppose that some people will use them as liners for small trash cans [like the ones by a desk], but that could easily be solved by making them stronger.

      I speculate that they could be used as ordinary shopping bags if they had a 24 hour disolve time built in. For example, a container of juice breaks open, and they get home in a couple of hours. Or perhaps wet vegetables drip a bit, and they get home in a couple of hours. When I was living on my own, I shopping for grocercies by taking transit. It was quite a long trip, and I never had problems.

      As for small trash cans, they should be able to deal with the liquids, assuming that the trash is emptied once a day, or dry enough.

      You bring up a good point.
      Perhaps in other packaging markets...
      I agree, in that the best place to start isn't the shopping bag market. The best place to start would be to use them for disposable cookie trays [or similar products] that are packed in regular plastic. To let people know that these trays are environmentaly friendlier, it would be wise to just say so at the bottom of the tray on both sides.

      I can also see them being used for bags that hold instuctions and other things; you get them when you buy electronic items. Ikea would also be able to make good use of them, because they sell dry goods. A while ago, I went and bought a bag of screws from them.

      On a slightly unrelated note, I'm willing to bet that they could come up with a version that doesn't break down very quickly, but when it does start to break down, then it goes real quick. For instance, the cell phone face plates are made of plastic. It may be worth while to use two types of biodegradable plastics with them. The first kind on the outer layer of plastic would be long lasting and durable, while the inside would break down quickly. Therefore, to break down the majority of the volume, you would just break the face plate in half, and wet it, or after the outer layer wears out, you would just wet the whole thing. Whatever.
      • Well, it depends on how water-soluble those bags are. Imagine a bunch of kids with super soakers waiting near the super market...
      • I can also see them being used for bags that hold instuctions and other things; you get them when you buy electronic items.
        But why do you think they put these in plastic bags in the first place? I'm pretty sure it's in case they get wet.
        • I suppose, but I never pictured my brother's VCR instructions getting wet. I thought it was just to keep them from going all over the box, while it is being shipped. If we were to look underneath his tv in the cabinet, we'd see the manuals still inside the bags. It seems pretty logical to me. This way we could think of the whole thing as one item, which makes it easier to keep tidy in the cabinet.

          If there are real concerns about keeping it dry, then that's not a problem. Just use real plastic, or biodegradable plastic with a long life. I wouldn't give a guilt trip then.

          On an unrelated note, every now and then, I'll see plastic used to protect glass. In this case, I'm pretty sure it isn't a problem if it gets wet. I wonder how beneficial it would be to use biodegradable plastic that broke down really quickly. It would be neat if they could just spray the entire building to remove plastic on new office windows or just wait for it to rain. In BC, Canada, they wouldn't have to wait too long, if they did it in the fall, winter or spring.
    • Now if they could make a plastic-like material out of a more water resistant polysaccharide like chitin or cellulose, then the environmentalists could start celebrating.

      You can: fabrics made from natural fibers, wooden containers, unbleached paper, etc. Cellophane and rayon are made from cellulose and biodegrade. Glass also makes great containers and is environmentally friendly when reused. There are many environmentally friendly natural paints and coatings, often based on milk, minerals, linseed oil, etc. A lot of older plastics also are based to some degree on natural substances: casein formaldehyde (from milk or soybeans), celluloid, cellulose acetate, natural rubber, gum lac, etc. Some of those are probably fairly bio-degradable, but that probably also means that they wear faster.

      I don't think we need more materials. What we need is the will to use them. And what we also need is standardization and reuse of containers in general.

  • In the words of George Carlin, The planet will just incorporate plastic into a new paradigm, the earth, PLUS PLASTIC! The planet is fine, the people are fucked.

  • rm -rf (Score:1, Offtopic)

    by an_mo ( 175299 )
    Even Linux isn't this cool

    Ever heard of rm -rf ? That beats biodegradability by a long shot.
  • If it degrades in an hour, how is it going to keep my Twinkie fresh?

    Wait! I know, we'll wrap it in a plastic bag!!
  • Remember, to keep those biodegradable plastic bags together just ship them inside plastic bags.

  • Nice marketing, but... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Dancing Tree ( 536870 ) on Tuesday June 25, 2002 @05:38PM (#3765291) Homepage
    Just because it biodegrades, doesn't make it an environmental godsend. Manure is biodegradable and its excess runoff has done a fine job of screwing up the Chesapeake Bay (just to name one of a multitude of places). Then there are the energy costs of producing it to look at. The article makes no mention of it but from the cost, it sounds like it is at least on par with current petro plastics. And just how enviromentally friendly is the manufacturing process itself?

    Then there is the growing of the corn itself. With orders for large quantities of it possible, it sounds like another factory farming nightmare. Genetically modified strains, pesticides, fungicides, fertilizers, irrigation.... don't assume that because something was grown, that it is environmentally friendly. Sugar is grown and it farming and processing are the major reasons for destruction of the Florida Everglades habitat.

    Don't get me wrong, I am very much interested in finding ways to do things better that are currently very harmful. But rather than be gulled by the happy glowing ads, we need to look at the full picture in every situation.

    You could always try these very simple and effective solutions: Bake your own cookies. Buy them at your local bakery and bring your own container for them to put them in. And if you're going shopping, try the bulk section and bring your own REUSABLE cloth bags. No one ever said you had to use the grocery stores plastic or paper bags. A lot of stores will give a small credit too for using your own bags and saving them some operating/overhead costs.
    • You could always try these very simple and effective solutions:
      I agree. They best way to protect the environment is to use less of it. Reusable products, and reduction of consumption, are the best solutions, by far.

      The key is to be creative, and see if you can come up with an alternative to buying a new item, or way of using less resources with the same comfort level. Changing to the alternative will definitely not be easy, because it takes effort to change habits for the better, but if it is better, then it will be well worth it.
    • Just because it biodegrades, doesn't make it an environmental godsend.

      That's true. But from the brief description in the article, it sounds like this stuff really is pretty environmentally friendly. Among other things, it seems to be composed only of carbohydrates.

      And if you're going shopping, try the bulk section and bring your own REUSABLE cloth bags.

      People won't do that without financial incentives. Perhaps recycling taxes on plastic bags and higher landfill costs could incentivize people; the proceeds could be used for public eduation campaigns.

      • as we have already seen, people are also motivated by fear. i'm picturing an MSNBC expose on how toxic the grocery store plastic bags are to thier children. or, better yet, the CIA has discovered al-quaeda plans to poision shoppers through those free plastic bags in grocery stores.

        riiiiiight
  • this reminds me of something else currently in development - edible foodwrap (made from fruit) instead of plastic.

    usda.gov [usda.gov]
    freshangles.com [freshangles.com]
  • This has been around a long time, and it is not nearly as amazing and interesting as Linux.

  • I have seen it... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Gamasta ( 557555 )
    Plastic is a major problem. There's almost no recycling in Brazil which is one of the most developed of the developing countries (and is where I live). There are huge amounts of garbage around major and even small cities.

    That is one of the reasons why I do not like capitalism: something has to sell so it has to be presentable. To be so, it's likely to have some layers of plastic protecting it and so on.

    Also, most things which go inside a refrigerator have plastic. Necessary or not, it goes all into the garbage. Milk, for example, goes into boxes which wheight quite something.

    Now biodegraadble plastics are developed almost everywhere. In Brazil, some of them have been produced with local available material (like parts of mandioc which is abundant as sun...). But why bother with the use of new technology if petroleum is abundant... that's a problem of capitalism and lack of political will.
    • Capitalism is about selling.
      Political will is about forcing people.

      We have yet to invent a philosophy of buying.
      We could but that would involve forcing people unnaturally, and capitalism is about the only rational and fair way to "force" people.

      Maybe if more people bought the less presentable stuff there would be less cost to the environment, less cost to the manufacturer, and less cost to the people.

      Wait... that would be cAPITALISM!
  • Do any people from Oz have a problem with this:

    "Why Oz? Chalk one up for government-funded research. A federal center developed the bioplastic and transferred the patent to Plantic. A scientific consulting firm took it from there, selling investors on the idea and hiring a management team."

    "Transferred." So... does that mean that Plantic paid money? Made a royalty deal? Transferring the patent implies Plantic now controls it, instead of just getting a license to it. That means no competition from anyone else. What are Australian citizens getting out of the use of their tax dollars besides the right to benefit Plantic twice (once with the patent, once when buying their products)?

    • Typically, Australian's have felt that we're quite good at original research and good ideas, not so good at commercialisation. The venture capital market is far less developed in Australia than it is in the US, meaning many good ideas get "made overseas".

      So, many universites have, and are encouraged to have, commercialisation arms. My old uni's is called UniSeed, which is a fairly descriptive name for it. The startup company is usually owned by the University, which is acting as a venture capital fund. When the high risk high reward phase is completed, and the company is a stable commercial venture, it's floated on the stock market.

      The idea is that this leads to income streams that the Universities desperately need (much more dependent on diminishing public funding than US universites), plus a high return-on-investment from the original, non-commercial research.
  • why do i keep seeing articles that were allready in wired. I mean honestly....who is modding this anyway?
    • why do i keep seeing articles that were allready in wired.

      Uh....the same reason you see articles that were already in the NYT, on MSNBC, and so on. Except for features and reviews, every /. story was already somewhere. That's the way the site works.

      • Yawn! see when i say yawn its because i allready did yawn and you didnt catch it. I know that is how /. works. I dont expect to see articles that appeared weeks earlier however. Sure, if something that was in non-mainstream media months ago suddenly appears, then great. But i hardly think that something that was reported on close to a month prior to being on /. could be that pressing, or that relevant. I dont know if im making my point here, but what im trying to say is, dont be redundant.
  • Isn't the point of plastics to have some kind of synthetic medium that doesn't degrade? I'd hate to have my ziploc bags falling apart on me.
  • Who could forget the wonders of Kramer's Krumbling Krud [collectibl...asures.com]?
  • Being an Aussie as I am, I've known about this product for a bit over a year now. But from my personal point of view, I think 'we' have the wrong focus. The "search" for a bio-friendly fuel frustrates me every time I hear about it, because the answer is simple. Ethenol, and vegetable based oils that are turned into diesel. Apperently Mr Diesel even intended to use vegetable based oils for his fuel source.

    I don't like wearing clothing that is made with polyester or other petroleum based products, they're not as comfortable as natural products. I don't like furniture with polyester in it. I don't like linoleum. I don't like carpet (because it collects dust).

    I just happen to think that natural products (including linnen, and hemp based products, etc) are the best for getting the job done. With the resources we have today, I think we are now at a stage where we can have _all_ of the creature comforts that we have gotten used to, and design them so that they don't adversly (in a major way) affect the environment we habitate.

    I hope this product (and the others like it being developed) has a wide spreading affect on the world as we know it.

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