Planetary System Similar to Sol

sgtwilko writes "The BBC News site has an article about how astronomers have found several new planets including some that have a similar distribution to our own Solar System. They are finding planetary systems that are more and more like the one in which the Earth resides. It's only a matter of time until the Terrestrial Planet Finder program gets going and finds another Earth." There's another story on space.com. Update: 06/13 21:51 GMT by M : Space News and Wired have stories as well, with spiffy graphics and artists' renderings and so on.

Wouldn't start planning my move yet...

[bwohlgemuth]

The system also has a slightly smaller neighbor which whips around every 14.5 days. My guess is the tidal forces of these two planets would eventually rip anything in between to shreds.

Yes, TPF will be a nice box to have. However, I wouldn't plan on the longevity of HST since it will be located at one of the LaGrange points just outside earth orbit.

Brian

Re:why so keen on earth-sized?

[Jucius Maximus]

"i don't get the thrust of the article focusing on finding earth-sized planets. is there some theory that necessitates a planet be our size to foster life? if so, why?"

I'm taking a page from Spock here:

Are we humans so arrogant as to assume that life can only be found on planets that closely resemble our own? Why can't life exist in forms completely unimagined by us on red-hot planets close to suns or enormous gas plants? And if we ever saw that sort of life, would we recognise it even if it was staring us in the face?

Re:why so keen on earth-sized?

[bwohlgemuth]

Easy...the word is gravity.

Smaller planets like Earth with lower gravity wells allow (currently known) life forms to be able to move easily. The best analogy would be the shuttle. Takes a bunch of fuel to move it. If you don't put much cargo it the ship, you need less fuel to take off. However, if you max it out, you not only need fuel to move the bigger mass, but to move the additional fuel as well. Now apply that to animals, either they would be really tiny or really huge.

Now, if you want to get into the realm of life forms that exist either in a gaseous state or as energy, I'll have to refer you to Mr. Bisson's story in Omni from a while ago [electricstory.com].

B

Re:why so keen on earth-sized?

[prismatic]

Actually, that's part of the point. If we don't have a clue what it looks like, we might not recognize it. If we look for what we're familiar with, we're more likely to recognize it.

Just because we're looking for situations similar to ours doesn't mean we'll find it. It also doesn't mean they're *not* looking for different situations (say, Mars or Europa).

Re:Closer to home

[electrick]

There was an episode of a canadian radio show called Quirks and Quarks that talked about what would be needed to set up colonies on planets in other solar systems. They spoke of the fact that it wouldn't be the people that embarked on the voyage that would set up the new "earth" but rather, their children or grandchildren.

This would present certin difficulties. For instance, how could one be sure that the children would be able to take over the duities of the parents, let alone want to? Can we be sure the children of extreamly brilliant people would be brilliant themselves? And how could we be sure they wouldn't just flip out and kill each other because of the very closed conditions of the craft?

Perhaps the most interesting point made was the question, how will the children of the origional voyagers cope with life off of the ship? For generations these people would be used to life on the ship, there is doubt that they would be able to function in the "outside world".

As much as I'd love to see humans on planets outside of this solar system, I agree with your veiws on setting up colonies in this system. It is viable in the short term, unlike further voyages that would require many more years of planning.

hmmmm

[coronaride]

as a follower of Christ who specializes in nerdiness/geekiness, i feel obligated to answer your questions.

while the bible does not specifically state that there is life on other planets, it never says that there isn't life on other planets. i, personally, believe that there isn't life, even though i know this is total flamebait. this is my belief and it is based on feelings, not facts. i would venture to believe that the feelings i have that lead me to believe this are probably similar to one's feelings that would lead one to believe that because there are other planets, there's a possibility that life exists on them. We currently have no evidence that really proves that extra-terrestrial life exists, but we have no evidence that really proves that extra-terrestrial life doesn't exist. Very similar to my faith, in that I have no rock-solid evidence that proves that my God exists but I have no rock-solid evidence against Him, either. That's why it's called faith..

As far as Jesus dying for the sins of aliens on other planets..hmm..it really depends on a couple of things. First of all, if we are to believe that the fall of man was confined only to earth, then I would probably say that yes, Jesus did only die for the sins of those who live on earth..e.g. "For God so loved the WORLD" -- However, I believe that man's fall was universal, and therefore I would have to say that the universe, in turn, was entirely effected.

Many questions remain, even though none have really been answered.. if aliens exist, why do we assume that it would be intelligent life and not like a martian dog or rat or something? if the life is intelligent, does it have a soul that is saveable, according to Christian theology? hmmm..much meditation and critical thinking is required here..

What do you think about this?

Re:Human Arrogance

[tgibbs]

Actually, your uncle has it exactly backwards. The idea that there is likely be life somewhere else in the universe is based on the idea that life is something rather ordinary, and therefore should not be terribly uncommon. If we leave aside our egocentric view that we are something special, then the belief in the absence of extraterrestrial life is absurd.

Re:why so keen on earth-sized?

[bwohlgemuth]

Yes. And the Carbon, Iron, Silicon, and any other heavier element would be left to form a crunchy center. The hydrogen would eventualy float to a certain point where the buoyancy in the atmosphere would be equal to the gravitational pull of the planet.

Also, it's been hypothesized that any Hydrogen at the center would be under such immense pressure it would change into a metallic state [llnl.gov].

B

Re:What do Christians think about this?

[no reason to be here]

i really wish people on slashdot would realize that fundamentalist!=Christian.
fundamentalist is a subset of Christian. to pass that site off as indicative of all Christian belief is about as irresponsible as equating Islam with terrorism, and just as ignorant.
i'm not very Christian myself anymore, but I still find such generalizations insulting.

Re:What do Christians think about this?

[cford]

As a fundamentalist Christian, and an ordained Southern Baptist minister with an MS in Software Engineering, I'd be happy to offer my thoughts on your question.

First off, I would agree whole-heartedly with the previous poster who commented that much depends on whether the life discovered was (is) intelligent, and whether or not it has a soul.

As far as what I think about stories like this... I don't find any conflicts between my faith and these kinds of articles. The Bible makes mention of creatures such as the Nephilim who lived or visited Earth prior to the flood. And any Christian who would take the time to thoroughly study the Bible would be compelled (I think) to conclude that there is much that we don't know or understand about our situation in the grand scheme of things. If you're going to accept that there are angels, seraphim, cherubim, demons, etc... then they, by definition are "extra-terrestial." I do believe in a Creator, and that Jesus Christ was the Creator incarnate. Simple logic would lead one to believe that if He created life here, he could, at His discretion, have created it elsewhere. (One reason I run seti@home, just out of curiosity)

A thorough study of the Bible must entail at least a passing familiarity with the language(s) from which the version you're reading was translated. The gospel of John tells us that Jesus Christ died for the sins of the world. (...For God so loved the world...) The Greek word which was translated "world" is "kosmos: the world, the universe."

Like others, I'm saddened to find Christians, or for that matter, anyone, who seems to cling to the belief that they have the final answer to any question. From the Pope on down, none of us can pretend to even begin to comprehend the magnificence of God. Therefore, when I see articles like the one we're discussing, it thrills me to see that we've uncovered one more small piece of the mystery of God's creation.

One final note, I've had bad experiences with fundamentalists just like others have. Any group of people will have their lowest common denominators. Scientists can be just as dogmatic about their theories as many zealots are about their theology. Read / study the Bible for yourself, and draw your conclusions.

Hope I haven't been too tangential.

FORGET THE BIBLE!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

All the answers from Christians of one sort or another are always prefaced with "The Bible says..."

Can you forget the Bible for a moment?

What? Can't do that? Can't use any other source of information than the Bible? Because the Bible is the True Word of God?

Why don't we use the Qur'an instead? Lots of people believe THAT is the True Word of God. No?

How about using your own brain? Your own sense of reason? What? You can't reason because those who taught you said you don't need to reason because all the answers are In The Bible.

What if the Bible had the following passage:

"... and the Lord says unto thee 'kick the wall of thine enemy and thou shalt feel no pain.'"

So you go and kick a wall and you find out a basic truth; IT FUCKING HURTS!!!.

Now, supposedly your Bible is telling you the Truth because it is the True Word of God. But your experience in the real world contradicts the Bible.

You can do three things:

1) Justify away by saying the Bible is allegory.
2) Justify away by saying the bible is just moral guidance.
3) Realize that the Bible is just a book which shouldn't get in the way of your discovery of the universe.

Re:Human Arrogance

[junkgrep]

A general rule here is that, in the abscence of a good causal model predicting why there would be more examples, you need at least two examples of something before you can conclude that it is likely that there are more than the one example you currently have. That's how you establish it as a possible reproducible pattern, rather than a one-off fluke. We currently only have one example of life appearing in the universe: here. So we really can't say too much yet about the odds of it appearing elsewhere.