Workstations 'Dirtier Than Toilets'

hettb writes "How often do you clean your keyboard and surrounding work area? A recent study (also discussed here) found that computer workstations harbour 400 times more health threatening bacteria than the average toilet seat. If you're anything like me, spending most of both professional and personal time in front of your computer, this is sobering news. "

cooool

[remou]

I believe in constant exposure to bacteria
viruses and the like. Keeps your body tough
and your immune system strong...

all that antibacterial soap shit gonna
kill you one day...

not really kidding in case you are wondering

Getting things out of proportion

[TechyImmigrant]

Exposure to bacteria is normal. We did not evolve with bleach and lavatories. Our bodies expect to encounter bacteria and to some expect we have to to keep out immune systems primed.

Why get paranoid about bacteria that naturally crawls over pretty much everything in our environment. Have you got ill off your keyboard? No, I didn't think so.

gattaca

[arivanov]

For some reason I have that scene from gattaca in front of my eyes. Where the main character is vacuum cleaning his keyboard at the end of the training day. The interesting bit is that noone is really bothered or amused by this... It seems a bit overboard, but still within reasonable limits...

Coming soon... "QWERTY-WIPES"

[rot26]

The study, funded by The Clorox Co.

Hmmm. Imagine that. A company that makes cleaning/germicidal products finds that a common workplace/home device is direly in need of disinfecting. I wonder if we'll be seeing Clorox Key-Wipes any time in the very very very near future?

a pay increase

[Anonymous Coward]

Finally an excuse to put in for hazard pay.

Re:makes sense

[saider]

I'll bet your mouth has even more germs than your keyboard.

But really, isn't this what we have immune systems for? If we spent all our time chasing every last germ, we'd end up like Howard Huges or Mr Burns.

This is obviously the basis for a marketing campaign by the Clorox company.

It's quite logical and comes as no surprise...

[Lethyos]

How much time do you spend on or at the toilet on any given day? 5-10 minutes tops? Some people take a really long time in the rest room, but it still does not even begin to stack up against the amount of time we spend at our computers.

Human beings are inherently dirty creatures. We can go through the whole day, doing almost no physical activity, and all the while, we're pumping out grease and perspiration. Meanwhile, we're going around touching door handles, money, and all sorts of other unsanitary surfaces. We then proceed to touch our keyboards and mice with these filthy hands. On top of that, many of us eat at our workstations, providing an ongoing food supply to whatever may be living on our input devices.

Now, think about the toilet. We spend very little time there. We never touch the seat. When we urinate, we're dispending a liquid that contains amonia and is actually steril. When we deficate, we're not very likely to get the contents on any surface except inside the bowl, where it is promply removed by about 5 liters per second of water.

Again, it comes as no surprise that computers are just outright dirty. :)

Re:Getting things out of proportion

[JMax]

Especially since all this bacteria on your workstation is probably your own -- as in, continuous with the bacteria that you already carry around with you. So big deal.

Now, that might point to an interesting distinction between "personal" computers and shared workstations, although I'll bet that personal computers are way dirtier, just by virtue of the fact that it's personal. On the other hand, those machines in university labs are probably pretty scungy.

Imperfect understanding of science

[mattbelcher]

As more people become semi-educated in science in our society, people are shifting their traditional taboos to equally superstitious, but scientifically inspired ones. Dirt and bacteria is a prime example of this. Previous generations believed that certain types of animals, places, and people were inherently dirty. Usually these were things that did not fit into the culture's prevailing worldview. Dirt was "things out of place." Now, people are starting to get away from that sort of thinking, but instead are latching onto bits of misunderstood science. Bacteria is a good example. People sit in their high school biology classes and learn all about little "germs" that live all over everything, just waiting to make you sick. This is reinforced by television commercials for anti-bacterial dish soap and aerosol disinfectants. In fact, such ambient bacteria are really only dangerous to those with severely weakened immune systems. For healthy people, this bacteria is harmless and potentially helpful since the immune system is strengthened by regularly fighting off this kind of bacteria. Still, culture is a powerful thing. Think about how you would feel eating a french fry you had dropped on the edge of a toilet seat. According to this study, it's cleaner than your desk, but most people still wouldn't eat it.

Bacteria -- the stuff that makes life possible

[lordaych]

Gotta love the media's constant portrayal of "bacteria" as something to be feared and destroyed at all costs. Bacteria are the basis from which all life (based on the cell theory definition) on Earth evolved. Not only that, but without them, we could not exist. Bacteria fix nitrogen to the roots of the plants we eat (or the plants which our cattle and pigs and chicken eat); bacteria (specifically, cyanobacteria, not "algae" and not "plants") created the oxygen-rich atmosphere billions of years ago and continue to contribute to it. Bacteria line our intestines and create vitamin K, which the body is unable to produce. Bacteria teem over every square inch of our bodies and can thrive in the most extreme of conditions. Any efforts to senselessly control or kill them will always be met with stronger resistance. Bacteria have been effectively "communicating" by swapping DNA plasmids for billions of years; collectively they form what could be seen as a neural network with far more evolutionary power than the entire human race. Making them out to be the enemy only creates a self-fulfilling prophesy.

Yes, there are quite a few nasty bacteria out there, but the world is for the most part an equilibrium where these few strains are kept in check by the sheer volume of other harmless or beneficial bacteria.

I say, the more, the merrier! Did you know that salmonella used to die at freezing temperatures, until scientists attempts to create a concoction of various strains of bacteria with which to innoculate chickens? The salmonella evolved and resisted so well that it thrives better than ever before. Let that be a lesson to the fools out there who want to kill every "bacteria" in their presence.

don't forget the sponsor...

[stinkfoot]

The study, funded by The Clorox Co...

needless to say, it's in their best interest to jack up bacteria paranoia levels whenever possible.

nowhere does it say that the bacteria levels on the desktop are unhealthy, just higher.

Re:Coming soon... "QWERTY-WIPES"

[SecurityGuy]

Well that's the interesting thing. They didn't "find that a common workplace/home device is direly in need of disinfecting". They found that it had lots of bacteria. Our non-thinking consumers will rush out to buy disinfectant products because they presume it's a problem. If they want to show anything at all meaningful, they need to correlate bacterial concentration on the keyboard with illnesses. I don't care if my keyboard has bacteria on it, I care if it has bacteria on it that can actually cause me problems.

Re:Getting things out of proportion

[Ivan the Terrible]

It's actually even worse than just getting things out of proportion since using germicidal wipes doesn't kill all the bacteria.

The bacteria that do survive are resistant to the germicide and have an ample food supply (all their competitors were killed off). If any of these newly evolved resistant bacteria are harmful to humans, we now have a problem.

Hospitals are increasingly fighting infections by bacteria that are resistant to all known drugs. The major cause seems to be antibacterial supplements in chicken and cattle feed.

So next time you wipe down that counter with Clorox-guaranteed-to-kill-99.9%-of-all-germs, think about how happy the remaining 0.1% of those buggers are going to be, and remember, they do know how to multiply.

clorox

[MSG]

While many readers poo-poo the study because it was funded by Clorox, I wonder who else they expect to conduct such studies? Clorox makes cleaning products... it makes sense for them to find out what things need cleaning, no?

I wouldn't expect the average person to go around collecting samples from all of the surfaces in their house to grow in dishes and find problematic places.

The results don't surprise me at all. Anyone who's taken a high-school level biology course has probably done exactly that in class and found that commonly handled items have lots of bacteria. I believe door knobs and phones were the worst surfaces tested by my class. (which reminds me of a particular chapter of the hitchhikers guide...)

Funded by The Clorox Company?

[dpbsmith]

And they found germs? Oh, what a surprise. And I'll bet that if a computer industry association funded a study, they'd find that keyboards are perfectly healthy.

Unlike the Slashdot lead in, they did NOT say the bacteria were "health threatening." They did not say the "germs" were dangerous. They didn't say they had shown that they caused disease. They did not say they POTENTIALLY could cause disease. They did not say that the people using the antimicrobial wipes obtained any health benefits (fewer sicks days, etc).

All they said was, there were bacteria on your keyboard. Big deal. There are bacteria in cheese, in yogurt, in sauerkraut, in your own mouth right now, in your own gut right now, etc. There are not just bacteria but MITES in your eyelids.

Yes, it's true that colds in particular are spread more by hand contact than by droplets in the air. I'd bet that you are at far more risk when you shake hands then when you use someone else's keyboard.

Paranoid.....

[jsimon12]

This seems more like an advertisment to sell disinfectant wipes. Assuming you wash your hands before you eat and aren't licking your keyboard you have little to worry about. There are bacteria everywhere, it is NORMAL for them to be EVERYWHERE, if anything trying to kill all the bacteria in your envionment might be detrimental.. If you start swabbing and culturing everything you will jsut end up OCD and living in a bubble. I mean hell, ever seen what grows when you swab money?

Re:Getting things out of proportion

[Anonymous Coward]

They're not footnotes, they're common sense.

Outhouse next to a well? I'm sure it seemed like a good idea at the time. No one recommends exposure to fecal bacteria, which, in high enough numbers will kill you. Similarly, no one recommends exposure to bacteria and molds that grow in disgusting old carpets. (At least I hope that's what you were talking about, not the shit they used to (and still do) put in carpets.)

Exposure to normal levels of every day bacteria is GOOD. Those bacteria are out there, and sooner or later you'll meet them. So get exposure (and resistance) to them as soon as possible, unless you plan to live in an anti-septic bubble. Bad, harmful bacteria (like feces) you should ALWAYS stay away from. But no one should have any trouble handling common bacteria, and this whole 'anti-bacterial' this and that is a very worrying trend, especially with household and baby cleaning products.

Re:Clean everything

[jmccay]

That seems to be a bit excessive. An obsessively clean area just means you are weakening your body's resistance to various bacteria etc. I think a lot of these "more lethal bacteria than..." stuff is really just items to get people to read, listen, or watch some article or show.

Health threat? Says who?

[sheetsda]

From the article: The average office desk harbors 400 times more bacteria than the average toilet seat, according to a new University of Arizona study.

From the slashdot article: computer workstations harbour 400 times more health threatening bacteria

Note that the article makes no mention that the bacteria they found were a health threat. News flash! There are ten times as many bacterial cells in your intestines as human cells in your whole body. Not all bacteria are a health hazard, in fact many species are quite helpful in digestion and competing against disease causing bacteria for food and residence. Your entire skin is crawling with the little buggers. I've never heard of computers being a significant reservoir of any type of disease causing agent, but any microbiologists out there feel free to enlighten me.

Re:cooool

[czeal]

Actually, this isn't entirely true. Bacteria evolve and mutate faster than anything else around, and can and do develop some level of resistence to chemical antimicrobials. The increased use of these substances in the household (and office now, I guess) has already started to have an impact on hospitals, which need them in cleaning/handwashing to prevent potentially fatal strep infects and such in post-ops. There are other interesting side effects of household antimicrobials, too. For example, they kill off the "natural microflora" (harmless bacteria that live in the crevices of your skin) which would normally compete with and prevent nastier microbes from growing there. Finally, soap and water are tremendously effective against cold and flu viruses, which realistically are the only things you're going to pick up around the office. Anybody who tells you otherwise is trying to sell you something!

Re:Americans are obsessed with microbes

[Jerf]

Speaking as an American, I assure you that we are not overly obsessed with microbes. We do put a higher premium on cleanliness and lower levels of BO then some other cultures, but that's basically a cultural thing to do with our noses, not our microbes.

What we do have is the world's most advanced Advertising System. Remember the definition of marketing: "Create demand". Most of what you see as microbe obsession is actually our advertising industry, trying its darndest to create an obsession with microbes.

By and large, they only succeed right where it probably does the most damage, with some parents of small children, which is of course a lot of people, but hardly the whole country. Most of the rest of us do not consider it a terribly big deal, up to and including the small children. ;-)

If all you watch is our advertising, you get a pretty skewed idea of our country, because what you really see is what Corporate America wants it to be. That does not always correspond to reality, and I dare say here's one place it has largely failed. We're not obsessive about microbes on a macro scale.

Note: I'd be surprised if there's a lot of bacteria in Coke. First, I'm sure the water's sterilized, probably distilled, same for the rest of the ingredients. This is a *good thing*, necessary for any product like Coke. (Consider pasteurization.) Second, that's one nasty environment for bacteria to grow in; I know some forms of mold can manage (don't ask), but it takes a lot of time... radiation hazards are usually seriously overstated (again for essentially marketing reasons; the people most worried about radiation are the ones least able to understand it, and so there are people capatalizing on this). Paint fumes and metal dust are probably underrated.

Re:cooool

[ndege]

The point is that some bacteria are good! When you use antibacterial soap, you are killing the good bacteria that live in your skin as well as the "evil" ones. Basically what this means is that some "evil" could grow back more quickly as the "good" ones are keeping them in check normally.

Just FYI, I use normal hand soap most of the time, but when I get sliced on a pc case or get a cut, I will clean the specific area with antibacterial soap and proceed to use neosporin to keep all bacteria out of the wound until healed...covered with a cloth band-aid.

Re:I'll lick my space bar if you lick your toilet

[spike hay]

People are way too germophobic these days. Face it: Bacteria are everywhere. You can't avoid them. Just live with it.

regarding cities

[GunFodder]

When people first started living in cities there were many health problems. Isolated disease related deaths became epidemics. Huge amounts of sewage and other waste products caused disease. And inadequate food and water also caused problems. That is why the Black Plague was so awful.

Increased cleanliness has drastically improved our health and our quality of life. It has gotten to the point that we don't worry as much about more serious diseases and instead worry about allergies. I bet lots of people had allergies hundreds of years ago but with all the smallpox, malaria, dysentery, cholera and other horrible diseases they didn't bitch about it.

Re:I'll lick my space bar if you lick your toilet

[kaygee]

Surprise! Your mouth is even dirtier than your keyboard probably, and demonstratably dirtier than the mouth of a dog or cat.

BUT, there is a large difference between the microorganisms occupying your skin and computer and those that MIGHT be in your toilet (or on it).

i.e. Giardia, E. Coli, Clostridia, Salmonella, Shigella are all GI tract infectious and will make you really sick (as a bonus it only takes about five shigella to infect a person), but your skin houses things like Proprionobacterium acnes which won't make you sick but will make your acne worse.

Skin also houses some staphylococcus species but they usually won't cause trouble unless the get inside you in some way.

HTH,
Keith

P.S. I knew studying for medical boards would come in handy someday!