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Science

Provigil Extends Your Day? 660

John Mearns writes "It looks like before long all caffeine junkies will be able to ditch the bottle of Mountain Dew or cup of coffee in favor of pill. Its not a true stimulant so you don't get the "caffeine crash," just countless hours of alert attentiveness. " It's also still in testing so it'll probably make you grow horns or something, and is supposed to only be used for people who are sleepy during the day, but it raises several interesting ethical questions.
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Provigil Extends Your Day?

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  • by Hiro Antagonist ( 310179 ) on Wednesday April 17, 2002 @05:17PM (#3361369) Journal
    There's something incredibly cozy about having a cup of hot coffee or tea to sip on throughout the day, a sort of tangibility that you won't get from popping a pill. It's kind of like the difference between muzak(tm) and Pink Floyd...sure, both are music, but only one is music.
  • by toupsie ( 88295 ) on Wednesday April 17, 2002 @05:22PM (#3361410) Homepage
    From the article:
    Provigil was developed in France in the 1970s. Although no one is sure how it works, animal studies show that the medication--unlike other drugs that induce wakefulness--doesn't seem to dramatically increase levels of dopamine, a neurotransmitter associated with arousal and alertness.

    If you want to take a drug that no one knows how it works, go for it. However, I will not be taking a drug that scientists are clueless about.

    The best treatment for sleepiness is SLEEPING!!! If you are engaging in an activity that is depriving you of sleep, STOP!!! There is a reason you get sleepy. Your body and mind needs to rest and recharge and sleepiness is the signal to do so. Medical test after medical test has shown that people that deprive themselves of sleep go insane and lose their ability to perform even the easiest of tasks. That is why sleep deprivation is used so often as a torture device to break down subjects, so they will spill the proverbial beans.

  • It's sad... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Lizard_King ( 149713 ) on Wednesday April 17, 2002 @05:24PM (#3361428) Journal
    ...to see how people underestimate the value of a good night's sleep to your health. I'd rather get a little less done during the day than deal with the whole laundry list of problems you are opening yourself up to when you are sleep deprived. Ever notice that people who don't get much sleep get sick a lot?

    Sleep is fundamental, period. There are no substitutions.
  • Is this wise? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by FurryFeet ( 562847 ) <[joudanx] [at] [yahoo.com]> on Wednesday April 17, 2002 @05:27PM (#3361459)
    Sleepiness is your body's way of telling you it needs rest (basically, your brain needs rest). Using drugs to avoid it strikes me as foolish, like using analgesics to ignore the pain of a broken bone (as opposed to curing it).
    If you're sleepy, you need to sleep. If you're sleepy during the day, well, maybe you need to go to bed earlier.
    Plus, sleeping is one of the seven capital pleasures of being human. Going to bed when you're sleepy is actually pretty nice. Why give it up?
  • by stuce ( 81089 ) on Wednesday April 17, 2002 @05:31PM (#3361488)
    Where does society get off saying what people can and can't do with their own bodies, given that they are aware of the risks (or at least aware that the risks are not known). These are not questions for the government or society to ask. These are questions for individuals to ask. "Is this a good choice for me and my body?"
  • Da Vinci (Score:2, Insightful)

    by reflexreaction ( 526215 ) on Wednesday April 17, 2002 @05:55PM (#3361666) Homepage
    Like many other people I wanted get more productive hours out my 24 hour day so began studying napping in college and ending up doing my undergrad research project on napping. I ended up doing a fairly lame project but my original idea was to adopt this sleep pattern (awake 4 hours, sleep 15-30 minutes) and do tests on myself. While there have been anecodotes of this sleep schedule, there have been no documented cases and no scientific research. Incidentally, Leonardo da Vinci was supposed to have adopted this sleep schedule. It can certainly help explain the amazing work that he produced.

    The human body has many continuous overlapping cycles. The most prominent is the circadian rythymn, our daily clock. But there are longer cycles (women's monthly cycles) and a shorter one of approximatly 4 hours. Adopting this sleeping pattern would maximize restorative sleep (Stage 4 and REM) while minimizing the less productive sleep stages (Stages 1-3). When you adopt this sleep schedule, you immediately go into deep sleep and then dream within 5 or 10 minutes. The normal delay for dreaming is usually 3-5 hours.
    One last thing that I found in my research. While most people can deal with moderate sleep loss for an extended time 2-3 hours a night, there is a core sleep time of 4-5 hours that the average person must get otherwise they become non-functional.
    I would love to read up more on this drug and to see how the research has changed in the three years that I have left school.
  • Normal Sleep (Score:2, Insightful)

    by phriedom ( 561200 ) on Wednesday April 17, 2002 @05:59PM (#3361687)
    Yes they do mention that. Its at the end of the section that explains how it is different from caffiene and other stimulants.
    Caffeine and older prescription stimulants buzz the entire central nervous system, causing jitteriness, insomnia and other unwanted effects. When people who use coffee or amphetamines to stay awake finally doze off, they often remain in bed for much longer than usual, their bodies paralyzed by the need for "rebound sleep." Provigil, meanwhile, seems to target only the part of the brain that keeps us awake. When its effects wear off, the user resumes a normal sleep pattern.
  • by axlrosen ( 88070 ) on Wednesday April 17, 2002 @06:02PM (#3361713) Homepage
    All the studies show that not sleeping is extreamly bad for you in the long run.

    I don't think that this is true. I read a New Yorker article a few months ago about the same drug. It said that not getting enough sleep will impair your performance at the time, but it doesn't cause any long-term effects. It talked about Randy Gardner who stayed awake for 11 days straight. He didn't experience any real problems during the experiment, and was completely back to normal after sleeping for something like 14 hours after the experiment.

    And the really interesting thing about this new drug is that you can stay awake for long periods of time without any performance impairment, or even any sleepiness. Cool and scary at the same time...
  • by sigwinch ( 115375 ) on Wednesday April 17, 2002 @06:21PM (#3361834) Homepage
    If you want to take a drug that no one knows how it works, go for it. However, I will not be taking a drug that scientists are clueless about.
    The primary mode of action of many drugs is unknown. (In fact, nobody has been able to explain how a single general anesthetic works!)

    And that's the good part: side effects are almost completely unknown. They're found by administering the drug and seeing what happens. Sometimes there are no side effects, sometimes you get a dry mouth, sometimes your fingernails fall off, sometimes all your mitochondria die, etc. There's a reason drug trials are carefully planned and monitored.

    There is a reason you get sleepy. Your body and mind needs to rest and recharge and sleepiness is the signal to do so.
    Completely wrong. There are some people who *never* sleep, yet do not suffer from bad effects. If the need for sleep where a fundamental characteristic of higher neural activity, they would die in childhood, but they do not.

    It is entirely possible (and I would say likely) that sleep is caused by a clock mechanism that tries to modulate consciousness. It is plausible that the "turn off" signal from the clock becomes hyperactive if it isn't satisfied and wreaks havoc on the rest of the brain, which is perfectly capable of staying online. If you could block or reset this hypothetical clock with a drug, you could stay awake forever.

  • Re:I've used it. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by John Whitley ( 6067 ) on Wednesday April 17, 2002 @06:32PM (#3361885) Homepage
    Many people I tell this to think it would be a good idea to take them during finals.

    I never grokked why this stay-up-for-hours mentality became such a powerful meme with college students. I *always* did better by getting a reasonable amount of sleep than by staying up to cram. Give yourself a few extra days lead time for in-depth studying. Get proper sleep sleep for the period just before and during exams. Watch your performance soar.
  • by Tattva ( 53901 ) on Wednesday April 17, 2002 @06:42PM (#3361934) Homepage Journal
    Several people have already pointed out that "natural" doesn't mean "good for you".

    And even beyond your points, natural and good for you don't always mean in your best interest. One of the effects of receiving sufficient or excessive nutrition is that cells (and animals) tend to focus on procreating at the expense of their own lifespans. There is a fundamental biological process that kills cells faster when there is an abundance of nutrience. That means, even though malnurishment is "bad" for you, you may live longer on a carefully malnourished diet.

    This makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint because in lean times you are best served by just surviving until better times when you can procreate or help your tribe/etc in other ways. Similarly, if you are stressed and not getting enough sleep, it may mean that you are going through some other kind of negative period in which the body's best bet is simply to extend life until better times roll around. In fact, recent studies suggest that those who sleep about 6-7 hours a night live longer than those who sleep 8-10.

    Go figure.

  • by BlackGriffen ( 521856 ) on Wednesday April 17, 2002 @06:55PM (#3362011)
    I would advise against using this if you want your memory to function. It's still probably just a theory, but I still remember hearing the most probable explanation for the brain's need to sleep that I've ever heard. Basically, the theory goes that when you enter deep sleep (i.e. non-REM sleep) your brain is literally wiring new connections: shifting memories to long term storage, connections are reinforced with more connections, etc. Your brain then goes in to REM sleep to test those connections, which is why REM sleep seems pretty random, but is often related to what's going on in your life.

    Some evidence for this: there is a specific type of autism (I can't remember the name) that baffled researchers until they started monitoring the EEG's at night. The researchers found out that the people with this type of autism were literally going in to seizures at night, at least they were experiencing the "electrical storm" in their brains that characterize a seizure. The researchers put the patients on anti-epilepsy medication, and it cleared up the symptoms right away. As the theory goes, the brain was using all of it's connections every night, preventing unused/unneeded connections from atrophying. So the patient was literally unable to forget anything, but also didn't have any more room for more connections.

    The moral of the story (considering that only a fool wouldn't realize that these pills won't be more abused than Viagra)? Don't use/abuse these pills if you want to be able to remember/learn anything long-term.

    BlackGriffen
  • by jonbrewer ( 11894 ) on Wednesday April 17, 2002 @07:13PM (#3362091) Homepage
    RedBull and Vodka is quite a popular drink, though the name of it slips my mind at the moment.
  • by mikosullivan ( 320993 ) <miko@@@idocs...com> on Wednesday April 17, 2002 @08:11PM (#3362437)
    I've had a problem with getting sleep during the day for years. It has nothing to with how interested in my projects I am or how much sleep I get: I would always get sleepy right at 10 am and about 2pm. Lately I've taken to walking to work each morning (about five miles) and it's made a huge difference. It took me a week to realize that most of my sleepiness problems had disappeared. Now, a month later, there's no mistaking the difference: if I walk to work I feel alert. If I don't, I get sleepy. I usually hate exercise but I enjoy the walk.
  • by supabeast! ( 84658 ) on Wednesday April 17, 2002 @10:09PM (#3362917)
    A lot of people seem to think this is a pretty cool idea for those long binges of coding/system administration/photoshopping/etc.. Sure it keeps you awake, but what about one of the really nasty downsides to sleep deprivation that I am sure most /. readers have experienced: hallucinations. I can honestly say that I have on numerous occasions been up all night playing EverQuest/Final Fantasy and then gone straight to work with little if any sleep (And help from my friends at Starbucks.); resulting in aural and visual hallucinations. About that time I pass out, but I have a friend who can go for 36+ hours without crashing, and experiences what he calls "LGMs," short for little green men. What happens when the geeks of the world can stay up for days at a time- do we go into hallucinatory overdrive? Or does Provigil deal with the LGMs? Anybody know?
  • kids... (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 17, 2002 @10:52PM (#3363051)
    been there, done that. trust me, a caffeine crash is much worse than a speed crash. you can use no-doze to postpone a speed crash, but nothing postpones a caffeine crash. a little weed makes a speed crash tolerable, nothing works on a caffeine crash. but now i'm a too-young-to-be-a-geezer (but i sure look and feel like one) with a bad heart (2 heart attacks do that), so just fucking go to sleep when you're tired, and say no to anything that makes ya crash. whatever it is you're staying up for just ain't worth it. for real. oh, you may think it is now, but 20 years from now you'll realize how wrong you were.
  • Re:Seriously (Score:3, Insightful)

    by nettdata ( 88196 ) on Thursday April 18, 2002 @06:06PM (#3369011) Homepage
    While it's true that Ecstacy can make you depressed, it's a bit unfair to say that depression is a side effect of the drug since there are steps one can take to prevent it.

    Wow... and I thought taking LEGAL advice from Slashdot was bad!

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