Global Warming Mostly Confirmed - On Mars 325
dinotrac writes "A just-completed 23 month study, carried out over the course of a Martian year, found that the Martian polar ice caps are rapidly eroding, sending large amounts of the greenhouse gas carbon dioxide into the Martian atmosphere. If this pattern continues over time, Mars could go from a planet whose winters are cold enough for dry-ice snow to having a shirt sleeve atmosphere. Humans would still have to provide for oxygen, but plants could go naked.
I wonder if this means tougher emission controls on the next Martian rover?"
If plants can go naked so can we (eventually). (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:If plants can go naked so can we (eventually). (Score:2, Interesting)
Could we speed it up maybe? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Quick, call GreenPeace! (Score:3, Interesting)
You're right, maybe we aren't!!!!
Let's quickly burn all fossile fuels and find out!!
</stupidity>
It can't hurt to cut down on CO2 emission, even if it's not the 100% cause of global warming.
But if it turns out that it was the influence of man, there won't be an 'undo' button!
Strongly recommended book (Score:5, Interesting)
Oh, yeah: they're also good reading, with an interesting set of characters.
Re:global warming (Score:5, Interesting)
It will give ammunition to people who, having an interest in not cutting back in CO2 emissions, want to argue that the global warming we've observed recently on earth is a "natural" phenomenon.
Firstly, this isn't an observation of increased temperature on mars. This is an observation of polar CO2 erosion. No temperature increase (which has been observed on earth) has been observed on Mars.
Secondly, we allready knew that climate change occurs periodically and naturally. The fact that Mars may be in the process of exiting a "dry ice age" at the moment indicates nothing about the earth.
Furthermore, I'm going to take common-sense issue with the scientists announcement that this (which they have observed over only 1 yr. martian) is "definitely not a seasonal trend." They can't know that. As an example, the ice sheets could melt in summers and reform every third or fourth winter which hapened to be extra cold. Point is there would be no long term change. I don't see any data on the actual rate at which these ice sheets are eroding, either.
The Earth, on the other hand, is allready warm by recent-meteorological standards (personally, I'm a great fan of the theory that the himalayas caused the ice ages by stripping CO2 out of the atmosphere - Nova [pbs.org] did an episode about it.) The rate at which CO2 is going back into the earth's atmosphere is highly unusual given our knowledge of the climatic history of the earth so I don't see how our much-more-limited knowledge of the climate on Mars reveals much.
Speaking of flame wars, I have to resist the impulse to insult the previous poster. This has nothing to do with the ozone layer!
shirt-sleeve atmosphere ? (Score:5, Interesting)
At such low pressure, some of the water in the soft tissues will vaporize and cause swelling of the human body (note that the blood will not vaporize, because it is always under sufficient pressure in the blood vessels). This can be prevented by "a properly fitted elastic garment", but such garments are only know to work at pressures of more than 20 millibars.
Which means that a lot of carbon dioxide would be needed until you could walk around without a space suit.
Planned Mission (Score:2, Interesting)
We need a permanent solution (Score:1, Interesting)
--From a fragment found underneath a Martian pyramid
If terraforming is so easy, why not fix Earth 1st? (Score:3, Interesting)
If it is that easy, why don't we just build a big plant here on earth to suck up all of the greenhouse gases and CFC's? Surely it must be easy to counteract the effects of the worlds ENTIRE industrial production. Then I can go buy an SUV and blast the A/C without any guilt.
It all sounds very simple in theory. Do you realize the volume of gas that you would have to generate? How about the amount of energy that you would have to produce to power the devices? Even the staunchest proponents of global warming say that it will take hundreds of years for the cumulative effects of our ENTIRE industrial system to spoil the Earth's atmosphere. What makes everyone thing that a couple of little plants that we put on Mars could do anything?
discovery channel- greenland (Score:2, Interesting)
In other words, evidence that such changes can occur without the intervention of humans already exists.
Re:Weather outlook on Mars (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Quick, call GreenPeace! (Score:4, Interesting)
I am always amazed at the short-sightedness of ppl. These ppl are already starving and inputing more energy will NOT imporve the situatation. Energy will NEVER be cheap again except for short durations. It will be in russia's interest to raise the price again and they will do so. OTH,had we passed Kyoto, then ppl (ecpecially USA) would have started working on increasing our efficiencient useage of energy as well as a conversion to something else. Segway is certainly interesting as would be the Highspeedmonorail.com. Personally, I think that as a society, that we are very short sighted. Oil has better uses than as energy. Think about all the plastics and pharmaceuticals that we use.
>Yes, there will. The "undo" button will be to reduce CO2 emissions after...
This is also an unknown. Somebody mentioned useing iron in the oceans. This may have the side affect of introducing red-bloom killing all life. Any number of actions that we take may actually introduce a number of side-effects that cuase more problems than they solve. Saying that we can do something on a QUICK global scale is truley the unknown and the ultimate in hubris.
Back on Topic, is Mars undergoing global warming? almost certainly it is. Just as earth is. The difference is that earth is suppose to be heading for ice age, if billions of years can be beleived. Mars will almost certainly head back as well unless we step in and perhaps cuase more sublimation of co2. Once we get there (most certainly not with the idiot that is in office) and look over the planet, I hope that we use some mirrors over the poles to keep the process going.
Re:Could we speed it up maybe? (and a bit on Sci-f (Score:3, Interesting)
Deploy a massive solar powered heating elements which raised the ambient temperature near the CO^2 glaciers. This might have the effect of accelerating the rate of melt, or sustaining a rate of melt if the change is seasonal.
I don't know what kind of heating system you'd want... the idea of monsterous hair dryers with heating elements blowing "hot air" over the martian glaciers is an amagingly funny image to conjure, but you could also bore pipes through the glacier and run hot liquid through the pipes... and I'm sure someone with a better science background than mine could come up with more.
Honestly though, this is something that's been talked about for years. Sci-fi authors have speculated about any number of ways in which we could terra-form mars. And many of them are scientifically sound. The problem is this:
Going to mars costs money. Terra-forming mars will cost alot of money. No individual, no matter how long lived, will ever see a teraforming project through from beginning to end... and few people are willing to start such a massively expensive endeavor when there is no payoff in thier own lifetime (nor the lifetimes of the next three or four generations).
Without doubt, this announcement is good news. It gives more for Sci-fi authors (self included) to work with to write plausable fiction. Remember, the best of sci-fi authors have a good grasp of physics / biology / astronomy when writing. That's why Aasimov and Sagan and the other Grand Masters have been able to write their imortal works... because they understand science well enough, that years later we aren't laughing and saying "wow, shows how little they knew!"
Okay, I'm done with my mini rant... back to work.
Re:global warming (Score:3, Interesting)
And significantly cooler than it was 900 years ago which was warmer than 100 years before that. etc. etc. ad nauseum.
What it does not, cannot, tell us is wether this is a cyclical or progressive change.
You are right - observing such a change on Mars tells us very little about whether the current global warming on earth is part of a cyclical or progressive change. Fortunately we have much more data on temperatures on earth and KNOW that there are cyclical changes and that over the most recent centuries the cycle has gone from temperatures significantly higher than today (the medieval warm) to temperatures significantly cooler than today (the little ice age).
I would agree it is worthwile studying the most recent upswing in temperatures because it is possible that human activity *could* be contributing to the most recent cycle of global warming. It seems though looking at the cycle of global climate change over the past millenium that our contribution is insignificant if it is present at all. We are neither at historically high temperatures nor experiencing changes that are particularly rapid.
I'm a 'don't piss in the bath' person myself.
Funny, that is how I think of those that would 'piss in the bath' of the global economy, wetting themselves in fear over what all the data suggests is a natural and cyclical change.