Still More Evidence of Life of Mars 250
dirtyhank writes: "According to this article a group of Hungarian scientists have found another potential evidence of life on Mars. Apparently some groups of dark spots spread every martian spring. They say this could be caused by photosynthetic organisms."
Evolution at its best (Score:2, Interesting)
This is a great scientific find (if these do turn out to be organisms), especially if by studying them we can figure out how they manage to survive at subzero temperatures. Considering we're over do for another ice age, that could come in handy.
F-bacher
What about the girl with the mousy hair? (Score:0, Interesting)
If we find life on Mars, we will never be able to colonise it. Expanding the human experience beyond the shores, the gravity well of this puny Earth requires a virgin territory. But if Mars is soiled with life, we cannot infect it with out own, for that would be interstellar ecocide.
The children are crying, they wail because with every piece of evidence that Mars has life, the long term survival of the Human race gets that bit slimmer. We need room to grow. We need to move off this poisoned planet. But the one save heavenly haven that awaits us is already taken.
Whatever can we do now? What happens when the light goes out?
Another article about this on Wired. (Score:2, Interesting)
article [wired.com] I submitted yesterday.
Life on other planets too (Score:2, Interesting)
Nutrients (Score:4, Interesting)
My understan7ding is that basic bacteria and other simple lifeforms transform certain chemicals into other chemicals using energy (usually sunlight). On Earth, the process is known to work because other organisms, usually higher in the food chain, degrade the new chemical back into the first kind of chemicals. It is also believed that the whole process was "jump-started" on Earth by incredibly high concentrations of primordial chemicals in the environment, high enough that the first unicellular lifeform would have time to both emerge then spawn other lifeforms to recycle the byproducts of its activity before the primordial chemicals would run out.
So, the question is, what's the theory with life on Mars ? obviously there has to be more than one lifeform, at least two, so that one degrades what the other produces. Strangely, I never see this issue appear in any life-on-Mars theory. Or do scientists assume a form of life that simply uses energy and consumes what it creates ?
This was previously hypothesized (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Evolution at its best (Score:3, Interesting)
Evolution is not unbounded. An organism can only evolve as much as its environment will allow. This is why there is less 'intelligence' in the water. Water is a relatively unvaried environment. A lack of varied environment leads to less variety in the organism. Look at fish. They're all pretty much the same. Basically. Look at Mammals. VERY different within the Kingdom. What Kingdom has been around longer? The fish. Why aren't they more 'advanced' than mammals? Less variance in environment. More variance means more opportunity for evolutionary advancement through mutations. From what I recall, Mars' environment isn't too varied.
The temperature varies, but it seldom, if ever, gets above the freezing point of water. (NASA [nasa.gov] says the high is 59 with a low of about -184) Let's not forget that the presence of liquid water is VERY important to life as we know it. Not too many organisms can survive in low water conditions. Note though that there is life everywhere on Earth, even in the ice of the arctic and antartic.
Trees of Mars? (Score:4, Interesting)
Defrosting Sand Dunes in Late Southern Winter (Score:3, Interesting)
http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/msss/camera/images
"As winter gives way to spring in the martian southern hemisphere, the Mars Global Surveyor (MGS) Mars Orbiter Camera (MOC) is observing the retreat of the south polar frost cap as sunlight falls upon it for the first time in several months. One of the most aesthetically-pleasing aspects of the spring defrosting process is the pattern that is created on the martian sand dune fields.
Dunes are usually among the first surfaces to begin showing signs of change in late winter when temperatures are just beginning to creep above -125 C (-193 F; 148 K). The pattern of spots on the dunes in the above MOC picture was observed on June 8, 2001. The location of the dune field near 62S, 155W, is shown in the color context view, which was acquired at the same time.
Dark spots and streaks on defrosting sand dunes were first observed by MOC in the northern hemisphere in 1998. Similar dark-spotted dunes in the southern hemisphere were described at a NASA/Mars Global Surveyor Space Science Update media briefing in 1999. Despite the "sensation" one gets when looking at pictures of spotted, defrosting martian dunes (i.e., the sensation that these images show some form of life, like vegetation, growing on Mars) these features are a normal, common manifestation of the springtime defrosting process on Mars. The ices involved--because of the low temperatures at these locations--are probably both frozen water and carbon dioxide, though it is unclear as to whether one type of ice dominates over the other in controlling the appearance and coalescence of the dark spots. It is known from the first martian year of MOC operations that by summer all of the frost--and thus all of the spots--on the dunes will be gone."
Could simply be heat (Score:2, Interesting)
CarbonBased Life Forms (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Nutrients (Score:2, Interesting)
Imagine a scenario where at the end of the martian spring these organisms throw off tough, highly resistant spores. Summer arrives, killing the adult organisms. The rest of the year's worth of abuse degrades them somewhat. Then, next spring the spores germinate and consume the previous generation before themselves producing spores.
I think there will be more than one species, however. It might just be a variety of species all trying to use the same strategy, or there could be room for several niches in what looks like a very simple ecology from way over here. I think the reason you don't see the number of species debated by scientists is that that would be jumping the gun somewhat. Just proving there is one species is a task not yet accomplished. Imagine you were a martian focusing your telescope on Earth. You can't say much about its life except that there is a lot of monospectral green (chlorophyll) down there. Debating how many kinds of green critters live there, until you can get a closer look, is best left to your martian science fiction writers.
Humans will not set foot on Mars for generations (Score:4, Interesting)
But we have seen this before in human history, for example, the Ming Dynasty of China and the voyages of the eunuch Zhen He (Cheng Ho) [tripod.com]. China at that time had broken free from Mongol rule, and centuries of progress in engineering, science, arts, and philosophy could justify a Chinese feeling that the Ming Dynasty was the greatest civilization the Earth had ever seen. For seven voyages Zheng He captained a stupendous fleet that explored the coasts all the way to East Africa, trading and exacting tribute. In theory Southeast Asia, the surrounding islands, and the coasts of the Indian Ocean lay at China's feet.
The problem was that China was the center of civilization. There was no immediate reason to conquer and displace inferiors. What could they offer China? China had no incentive to put skin in the game. And since China's explorations were financed and controlled by the government, once the program lost favor with the leadership, all such exploration could be swiftly terminated.
Today's space craft sent to other planets or other outer space bodies are our equivalent of the voyages of Zheng He. For a generation the idea of exploring space captured the imagination of a rising and relatively rich civilization. But now the civilization is facing other concerns, concerns closer to home. And the civilization believes that it is the greatest of all time with no competitor on the horizon. The greatest science, the greatest engineering, the greatest arts, the greatest philosophy all permeate the civilization, one which can earnestly ask if it has reached the end of history [booknotes.org].
And the civilization has a better alternate space program than one that could actually be physically constructed. Through the magic of special effects in television, movies, and games all potential space programs and futures can be experienced by the masses, the ultimate space program of the mind.
The cycles of history teach us that such a period of self-satisfaction turns into degeneration and finally collapse. After the wise king follows the corrupt sons and grandsons who cannot hold the kingdom together let alone promote expansion. The failure of this generation to take its shot at further manned space exploration means it will be a while until the next window of opportunity opens.
Re:Life on Mars (Score:3, Interesting)
Apart from this there are indications that today's atmosphere is far from being the original one. Isotopic analysis shows that a large part of todays gases came recently from under the surface. Not milliards but a few millions of years.
Meanwhile this planet shows clear traces of huge, gigantic cataclisms. Look at the Northern Hemisphere, Hellas and the miriad of craters. Besides look at the gigantic valleys caused by mega-floods which are much more recent than the impact traces of the early times. The planet seemed to have a very hot childhood. Besides, something serious happened in its early maturity. So big that today's upper layers are simply washouts of this tragedy.
So speaking about "natural" conditions is quite hard for a planet like Mars. Of course that this may suggest that Mars could hardly be a place for Life. But didn't we have the same thing on Earth? The Moon, the pre-Cambric frost, the Permian, the African mega-craters, the Cretacian... And recently we started to know that even our historical period may have had some big shakeups. After the findings on the Black Sea, where people discovered artifacts and constructions 150 meters deep, no one doubts that the Flood, Atlantis and other tales may have a very serious historical ground.
And, well, we are still here. So why Martians shouldn't?
Re:Life on Mars (Score:3, Interesting)
Now we know that many organisms are highly adaptive to frost. But Mars has also has a temperature regime ranging from -200 upt +32. Well, considering the low levels of pressure, +32 might be a boiling temperature for a Martian... In fact, for living beings, the problem is the ratio temperature/pressure that gives a chance for physico-chemical reactions to produce a controllable level of heat. If heat dissipates too fast or keeps too long, then even a Earthling would be doomed.
Besides we know that living beings can adapt to deep dry conditions by saving water to the maximum. However, in Mars, we know that there are huge water pockets underground even in low latitudes.
Oxygen? Well in most terms we and 90% of earthlings are true aliens. The true pioneers of our Earth HATE oxygen. And still survive...
Scarce nutrients? Well we know that Mars is VERY RICH on surface minerals. Iron for example. And it is there in the best forms for certain Earth bacteria to use it. And if there is one thing Mars looks better than Earth, then it is in this feature.
UV. Well, why Martians should live right on the surface? Some earthlings have their home kilometers underground...
On what concerns apparencies. On Earth there is a place called Antarctida Dry Valleys. For nearly ten years people thought they were completely sterile. And among them there were several members of Viking Project. However Professor Vishniac and other scientists have shown that this was a wrong view. Life is thriving in this deadly place and even has indigenous species.