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Space Science

Russian SLBM Launches Solar Sail 64

Posted by michael from the testing-1-2-3 dept.
Barbarian writes: "CNN reports that a Russian Submarine has launched a rocket containing a solar sail payload sucessfully. The mission is a 30 minute sub-orbital test. space.com has more details on the craft." Our earlier story. Another submitter noted that today is the 25th anniversary of the landing of the Viking 1 Mars probe. JPL has a Mars site, which is not responding as I write this. Maybe the Martians got to it. :)
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Russian SLBM Launches Solar Sail More

Russian SLBM Launches Solar Sail

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  • Re:Russia Reclaiming Space? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Oh, and lets not forget

    first dead astronaut/cosmonaut.

    You don't always want to be first.

  • Re:sailboat (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Plus tacking between solar systems will add an awefull lot of distance and time to the trip.

  • Re:why cant they (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    The sail would get all tangled up in the trees when you try backing it out of the driveway. That's why.

  • Re:Why from a Sub? (Score:4)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 20, 2001 @07:06AM (#72718)
    First off, its not moving when they launch. Second, i'd imagine that they used it because they were able to get their hands on and modify an icbm from one, take a missile, remove the payload, insert the new payload.

    Also, it seems that they wanted it to land somewhere in Eastern Russia, and it was such a short flight that I don't think it was going to orbit the earth. The submarine allows them to move to a location to the west so that they can better place its landing distance.

  • Re:Yes protons (Score:4)

    by Don Negro ( 1069 ) on Friday July 20, 2001 @08:13AM (#72719)
    Okay, last time...

    Solar sails do NOT use the solar wind for any signifigant portion of their impulse. They use light.

    Photons hit sail. Photons impart energy (mass x velocity) to sail. Sail goes one way, photons go the other.

    Don Negro

  • Better to say, photons impart momentum to sail. You can't calculate their momentum from mass x velocity -- they're massless, relativistic particles.

  • Anniversaries... (Score:3)

    by rnturn ( 11092 ) on Friday July 20, 2001 @06:55AM (#72721)

    Um, unless I'm mistaken, isn't today also the anniversary of the first landing on the moon?



    --

  • No, no, the politics are good!

    In the Cold War, mankind went from nothing in space to men walking on the moon in a dozen years-- the Russians put up a satellite, and the Americans were scared.

    Now that we're all _friends_, it's taking us longer than that to put up a space station. We probably _can't_ go back to the moon today.

    Politics can be a good thing...
  • The site is down!? Maybe Mars is going to attack the "whitehouse" because of our pesky "Code Red" problem.

    Let's hope that Dubya remembered to bring his favorite Slim Whitman LP. "When I'm Calling You"

    -S

    Scott Ruttencutter
  • Sub-orbital doesn't mean you didn't enter space - it means you didn't enter space with enough velocity to orbit the earth. Alan Sheppard (the first American in space) ahd a suborbital flight in the mercury program.

    This test flight was only meant to ensure that the solar sail unfurls correctly IIRC. Be that as it may you would still be affected by solar 'wind' in a suborbital flight, just not as much as in you would in an orbital flight. This is especialy true of an extra-orbital flight outside the effect of the earth's magnetic field.

    -Shieldwolf
  • It was launched by the planetary society (of which I am a member) founded by Carl Sagan.

    Detail about the flight can be found here: http://www.planetary.org/html/news/articlearchive/ headlines/2001/launch_go.htm

    It is one of the first non-government AND non-profit private ventures into space. It also marks the first solar sail launch into space (although the launch is sub-orbital).

    -Shieldwolf
  • As it is being launched from an intercontinental ballistic missile, does this mean that "son of starwars" should have tried to shoot it down;-)

  • Russia Reclaiming Space? (Score:3)

    by Jimhotep ( 29230 ) on Friday July 20, 2001 @06:34AM (#72727)
    Russia loves to be first in space.
    first orbit
    first man
    first woman
    first space walk
    first paying customer

    first sail!!!!!!

    forget politics! celebrate advancement
    whoever does it!!!!!
  • Why is this being launched from a submarine?

    Why not? Anyway it's easier to get an optimal launch position from a ship.

    Why make an experiment more complicated than it has to be? "I know, lets launch it from a moving submerged vehicle"

    The speed of the sub is trivial compared with that of the rocket.
    Also maybe the Russians wanted to show that their SLBM systems still worked, in the light of the US detaining one of their citizens.

  • Re:good to see... (Score:3)

    by radja ( 58949 ) on Friday July 20, 2001 @06:56AM (#72729) Homepage
    >Solar Sails would never be able to push the craft faster than light so it's doubtful that the technology could take humans to other solar systems and back like we drive to the corner store.

    True.. then again, you won't make it to lightspeed with any known technique. Now if we could just control mass (say.. reduce it to 0), you'd be at lightspeed in no time :)

    //rdj
  • a Russian Submarine has launched a rocket containing a solar sail payload sucessfully.

    I also hope a civilian wasn't at the helm at the time...





    Note to moderators... the parent post, depending on how patriotic you feel towards the US of A, might just be construed as "Funny", and not as "Offtopic" or "Flamebait"... If it was about Microsoft, it'd be +5 right now and you know it!

    Wah!

  • Actually, this is a reasonable question.
    Launching from a sub offers a number of things.
    1) mobility (potentially better choice of latitude)
    2) a reasonably safe environment to splash and/or crash
    if something goes wrong. The trajectory was sub-orbital
    so presumably a failure would mean a quick return trip.
    All in all, launching from the ocean is more
    convenient than land if you discount the infrastructure
    required to make it happen.
  • The article is correct, solar wind [pppl.gov] is a stream of protons not photons.

    Phillip.
  • Doesn't anyone find it suspicious that the Russians launch a missile just days after one of their citizens is capriciously arrested in the United States?

    They must be firing a warning shot across our national bow! The solar sail story was a sham, we have been served notice!

    (tee hee)
  • JPL has a Mars site, which is not responding as I write this. Maybe the Martians got to it. :)

    Or maybe it was the Slashdotters who wanted to beat the rush.

  • a Russian Submarine has launched a rocket containing a solar sail payload sucessfully.

    I hope they double checked to make sure they weren't underneath any japanese fishing boats

    ---

  • Aren't we also on a mission from God?


    I just read Planet of the Paes. There's a cool solar sail in that.

  • Cosmos 1's ride into sub-orbital flight came hitched to a modified intercontinental ballistic missile.

    "ST: First Contact" and Zefram Cochrane, anyone?

    Maybe the Vulcans will pick this one up.

    -j
  • Maybe the Martians got to it. :) MARTIAN Chinese hacker worms!!!

    "One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad

  • If you don't understand how space news is "stuff that matters" ... [Wanders off, shaking head]
  • Solar sails are bombarded with both photons - light - and protons - part of the solar wind.

    When a reflective sail is hit by photons, the force generated varies with the angle of the sail (i.e. the sail is pushed normal to the plane of the sail). When a sail is non-reflective, the incoming particles 'stick', transferring their momentum in the direction they were travelling, i.e. radially from the sun.

  • Another submitter noted that today is the 25th anniversary of the landing of the Viking 1 Mars probe.

    Today is the 32nd anniversary of the landing of Apollo 11 on the moon. While the Viking 1 lander was significant, it's pretty hard to beat the first landing by any human being on another world ever. I guess it must be ancient history or something.

  • The purpose of the flight is to test the deployment mechanism of the sail.

  • Someone had to say it... (Score:4)

    by connorbd ( 151811 ) on Friday July 20, 2001 @06:56AM (#72743) Homepage
    It's 106 miles to Mars. We have a full sail of sunlight, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark and we're wearing sunglasses. HIT IT!

    This ought to be interesting to watch... a solar sail that didn't come out of an SF book. I like. The romance of space is not dead.

    /Brian

  • good to see... (Score:4)

    by Rackemup ( 160230 ) on Friday July 20, 2001 @06:37AM (#72744) Homepage
    It's good to see that an "international" group of people can work together for a common goal instead of trying to blow each other up.

    Solar sail technology looks cool (cheap, free fuel, less bulk) but for some reason I think I'd still prefer the reassuring vibrations of a real engine. Solar Sails would never be able to push the craft faster than light so it's doubtful that the technology could take humans to other solar systems and back like we drive to the corner store.

    Still, it'll be interesting to see where the scientists can take these ideas, a relaxing silent luxury cruise to Mars anyone? =)

  • WEll, we are! At least on the Seven seas...
  • Okay, correct me if I'm wrong, here, but solar a sail works because it is being bombarded by *photons*, not protons...
  • Did I miss something?
    The mission is a 30 minute sub-orbital test.
    What good is a solar sail deployed sub-orbitally? How is that even a valid test? Not being a rocket scientist myself, perhaps I missed the point...

    --CTH

    --
  • It would take a mega huge solar sail to move anyone on earth because the air resistance, ground friction, and the fact that there is less light due to atmospheric refraction and absorbtion. Plus no one could go out at night:)

  • Re:sailboat (Score:3)

    by dmatos ( 232892 ) on Friday July 20, 2001 @05:49PM (#72749)
    Okay, this was kinda funny, but I just want to point out that it is impossible to tack with a solar sail in space.

    On a sailboat, tacking works because the wind coming at an angle across the sail bellies it out into a wing-like shape, with the front of the sail being curved like the top of a wing. Just like on an airplane, this creates an area of lower pressure, which pulls the boat forward. Also, the large keel on the sailboat keeps it from just being pushed sideways.

    In space, apart from no-one being able to hear your screams, no-one can provide a medium in which a keel will work. As well, the aerodynamic properties that make tacking possible just don't apply, as there is not medium in which a lower pressure can be made (except, of course, the ether... :)

  • Why from a Sub? (Score:3)

    by rcatarella ( 239076 ) on Friday July 20, 2001 @06:46AM (#72750)
    Why is this being launched from a submarine? Are there extra points for the higher degree of difficulty? Why make an experiment more complicated than it has to be? "I know, lets launch it from a moving submerged vehicle"
  • Why is this being launched from a submarine?
    Coz russian SLBMs are available in high numbers, at cheap prices, and they are reliable. I think it's a Really Great Thing[tm] to use these military missiles for an application which is useful for all of us, and would like to see if if they would be used more often. It's better to spend money for russian space engineers than fearing they would be hired by Iran, North Korea, you name it.

    "I know, lets launch it from a moving submerged vehicle"
    If you would happen to know anything about SLBM and rocketry, you would know that they can only be launched submerged - the engine is not ignited while the missile is still in its silo, instead the missile is ejected by compressed air and ignited just before it's the surface.
  • Well, I'm not a rocket scientist either, but... 1. Carrier is an old (and redesigned) submarine launched ballistic missile. I think, decision was made using parameters required to launch such type of cargo. And it's quite cheap - we have lots of these toys going off from duty due to expiration. Then, mobile platform (and nuclear sub is highly mobile :-) is a perfect patform for choosing needed direction of flight and landing point. Security is also may be a factor - you could very easily isolate new technology on sea, comparing with ground. Sorry for bad English, I'm loosing sense of language when I'm drunk
  • May you got good points but wrong place, wrong time

    learn how to read

    my 2 cents plus 2 more
  • Man I bet I could get the russians to let me ride in one of their MIG fighters for some cash if they are willing to let these bozos launch tin foil kites into outerspace!

    Oh wait my bad they already do let cash paying citizens get a ride on the ultimate rollercoster!

    ( $10,000.00 per ticket )
    http://www.rocketguy.com/rocket/mig.html

    I just want to know if I can sue the Planetary Society if this dam thing falls in my backyard and kills my dog.
  • They just know how to apply all that what is Physics and Maths better than anyone else.

  • I got some "solar" wind of my own due to my last couple of meals, but rest assured that no one would wanna build a sail for it.
  • not first post :-)

  • So, this sounds great, a solar sail to Jupiter... wow!
    But how long would it take to get to Jupiter? I didn't see any mention of speeds or estimated travel times.
    And what about getting back? You can turn the "paddles" for steering, so does that mean you would use a similar strategy to sailboats tacking? How long would that take?

    Another thing is, with rocket powered things we know the exact speed to use for navigation calculations. This is how photographic satellites intercepted the planets of the solar system. With something as dynamic as sailing, it seems that it would be nearly impossible to actually get to the correct point in a planet's orbit to intercept it.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  • Re:Navigation Questions... (Score:3)

    by Waffle Iron ( 339739 ) on Friday July 20, 2001 @08:38AM (#72759)
    IANARS but I'll attempt to explain navigation anyway:

    Particles from the sun have momentum in a direction aimed directly away from the sun. The sail can reflect these in many directions, recoiling similar to a pool ball off of a cue ball.

    Also, since the spacecraft is in orbit, it can move in by reducing its orbital velocity, and out by increasing it. So, if the orbit around the sun is clockwise, to move towards the sun you tilt the sail to the left. Particles reflect to the right, the sail gets pushed to the left, slowing the orbit and shrinking it.

  • Ok, it's time to star-confederation contact us.

    Don't worry, it'll hurt as much as an amputation

  • Much too easy a target. I can imagine competing missile defense contractors taunting each other: "Your kinetic kill vehicle couldn't hit the broad side of a solar sail!" I'd be impressed if they could spray-paint some graffiti on the sail. With the thrust due to the aerosol, that would be a tricky bit of orbital maneuvering!
  • I was about to post a refinement applied to circular solar orbits, but it involved retracting and redeploying the sail. I realized that I was still thinking in terms of coasting most of the time. A solar sail's continuous acceleration away from the sun would enable some new tricks. For example, by flying near Mars and then aiming the sail somewhere between Mars and the Sun, you could remain stationary over one of Mars's poles. Then it's a bit more like flying a kite than like sailing.
  • I'm not fully up on the mechanics of solar sails, but wind sails can attain speeds greater than the wind by running at non-parallel angles to the wind direction. Perhaps solar vessels can use a similiar "vector gearing" technique... Nah.

    "Leave the strategizing to those of us with planet-sized brains." -Tycho
  • KPL has a Mars site, which is not responding as I write this. Maybe the Martians got to it. :)

    I know we're strange, but... Martians? c'mon... geeks are people too...

    Screw 3...

  • why cant they use similar technology for intra-earth travel..i.e on roads? maybe i misunderstod how the propulsion system works
  • ahh..me brain dead ..3 hrs sleep... so we are yet stuck using those panels?
    maybe we should start using spiderman like propulsion systems..where does he stick the other end of the rope anyways
  • err the link points to site dedicated to the sport of rugby...
  • ...I'd still prefer the reassuring vibrations of a real engine.

    That vibration you're feeling is wasted energy that could have been focused more efficiently.

  • I told you us Russians would pull ahead in the space race!
    ---
  • Actually it exploded during pre-flight tests in April.

    "What the hell happened?"
    "I pushed the button like you said"
    "Which button?"
    "The red one . . ."
  • Photons do not impart energy in the form of mass x energy, they have no mass. They impart momentum, as h / lambda, to the craft. Twice as much if they are reflected (rather than absorbed).

  • In the news tonight... (Score:4)

    by Bozar ( 458678 ) on Friday July 20, 2001 @07:25AM (#72772) Homepage
    "The solar sail launched by the russians today was fine until it unexplicably exploded 2 minutes after launch. This is a sad day for the space industry, as solar sails could have paved the way to cheap interplanetary exploration."

    "In other news, Boeing announced today that they won't be conducting their planned missile defense system test today. An official at Boeing commented, 'We feel confident that our system will work. There is no reason to shoot down any more expensive American ICBMs...'"
    ;-)
  • Screw 3... For all those who wish to cross the strait, you must answer these questions... 28!!!

    ...Ere you'll die and me you hate.


    ~Bass
  • Why did they launch this thing from a submarine? Wouldn't it have been cheaper to launch it from land? I mean, the Russians are still using launch sites in Kazakhstan, so what's so different about this project that they wanted to launch from an SSBN?
  • and I still have a 56k modem :(
  • lol, yes startx is far beyond Joe sixpacks capabilities.
  • Linux has come a long way in terms of its GUI, and I have a feeling if Linux became mainstream it would be pre-configured and set to start in x. Any windows user could use a newer version of KDE fairly easily if it was already configured for them. If the courts decided Microsoft was a monopoly tomorrow and forced them to break up what do you think would happen? Windows would die, Linux would be the only real choice (in my opinion), especially for companies. What Geek toy could replace Linux other than a newer and beter OS not made by Micro$oft?
  • Perhaps the Russians are trying to protect us from The Terrible Secret of Space. [jonathonrobinson.com]
    Seriously though, is there any word on the cost of this device, according to space.com this thing was privately funded. Wish I had that bankroll.

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