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Science News

Dungeons and .. Spiders 21

Posted by michael from the don't-kill-charlotte dept.
mvw writes: " This article is about yet unidentified species of poisonous spiders .. found by British Telecom technicians beneath Queen Elisabeth's Windsor castle!"
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Dungeons and .. Spiders More

Dungeons and .. Spiders

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  • Are you an entymologyst, or an entymophagyst, or both?

  • Technically, not poisonous (Score:4)

    by PD ( 9577 ) <slashdotlinux@pdrap.org> on Tuesday June 19, 2001 @10:24AM (#140184) Homepage Journal
    Spiders aren't poisonous. They are venemous. A poisonous animal would be something that causes illness from contact, or by ingesting it, such as those odd frogs and toads that emit a toxic slime from their bodies.

    A venemous animal, like a spider or a rattlesnake, has a bite or other means of delivering a toxin to their target.

    And, not to put too fine a point on it, all spiders are venemous. It goes with the territory. Saying that a new species of venemous spider has been found is like saying that a new species of fish that lives in water has been found.

  • We have billions and billions of baby pet spiders. Enquiry within.
  • My favorite quote:
    "There are about 50,000 species of spider worldwide, only six of which are known to be poisonous."

    ALL spiders are venomous, but only a few are dangerous to humans. Note: Daddy Long-Legs and Harvester spiders are NOT spiders and are not, contrary to popular opinion, venomous. Maybe there are six species that are harmful or fatal if swallowed.

  • I said "dictionary.com" isn't necessarily correct; I never said that all dictionaries aren't. Besides, have you read some dictionary entries? Slang terms don't always mean what the dictionary says. Scientific jargon doesn't always mean the same thing the dictionary says (some dictionaries are more abridged than others); they have dictionaries specifically for scientific terms (which would've been a better place to look up venomous and poisonous). Look at the definition of "stress." Stress is an applied force on a body. Depending on the physical properties of the material it should CAUSE strain (a non-dimensional factor that describes the internal forces on the body caused by deformation). Some dictionaries list strain as a synonym for stress. In structural mechanics, this is absolutely FALSE. A body can be under strain without any stress.

    If the "dictionary" was the definitive authority on the meaning of a word, there would only be the need for one dictionary. Every dictionary you read has a slightly different definition for the same word. Which is right? They all mean basically the same thing, but some use different examples to get their point across. A dictionary also isn't as precise with its meanings either; they intentionally give more general definitions so that a greater number of people will be able to understand the basic idea of the word. Another case in point is poisonous and pestilent. A pestilent is not necessarily a poison. It can be but is only truly synonymous with poisonous in the "socially/morally/politically harmful" definition.

  • Actually, just because you eat a venomous creature, you won't necessarily become sick (or even get the dose). Venom has to be injected into the blood stream (well, I know hemotoxins do but I'm not sure about neurotoxins, they might have to have contact with the nervous system; I'm not that knowledgable about that aspect of venom). Eating something won't always put stuff in your blood stream. The venom might get altered from digestion; it might not get digested at all and pass right through your body.

    Important case in point:
    King snakes' (non-venomous) prey on and eat the rattlesnake (highly venomous). They aren't immune to the bite of the rattler; but, if they kill and eat the rattler without being bitten, they are just fine. So, venomous != poisonous.

  • Re:Technically, not poisonous (Score:3)

    by boarder ( 41071 ) on Tuesday June 19, 2001 @11:58AM (#140189) Homepage
    Just because dictionary.com says poisonous is synonymous with venomous, doesn't mean it is. They also list as synonyms for poison: virus and bane. Those are specific uses of the word and not the one necessarily intended. They list venomous as a synonym for poisonous as it pertains to venomous jealousy or words.

    The original post is correct. I have spent many years in the field of amateur herpetology (study of reptiles/amphibians) and know that, in the scientific community, we say venom is injected and poison is injested.

    From Dictionary.com listing of "poison":
    Usage: Poison, Venom. Poison usually denotes something received into the system by the mouth, breath, etc. Venom is something discharged from animals and received by means of a wound, as by the bite or sting of serpents, scorpions, etc. Hence, venom specifically implies some malignity of nature or purpose.

  • I think Daddy Longlegs isn't actually a spider, although it looks like one.
    I can think of five poisonous (or venomous or whatever -- we all know what was intended here, quibbling over this is like quibbling over whether people are hackers or crackers) spiders: katipo, redback, whitetail, funnel-web and tarantula. Let's find out what the last one is, and then we can know what parts of the world to avoid.
  • Graham Smith, a member of Project-ARK conservation team which aims to preserve endangered species, warned that the spiders could attack.

    "The species is certainly venomous and the jaws are strong enough to penetrate the human skin."

    Really now, it's almost as if he wants to sound like some scientist from a MST3K reject. A concerned "member of the scientific community" warns that, though there might be some danger to humankind, and though they could theoretically "attack" at any moment, he is part of a group dedicated to preserving and understanding this facinating new species. And besides, fumigation wouldn't work anyway. I'll bet he even has a cool line like "beautiful creatures" already made up so he can stoically meet his death when they turn on him, despite his personal responsibility in preventing their extinction by sabotaging the heroes' attempt to lure them into a trap using super-strong queen spider pheromones...

  • Now, I don't normally have a problem with spiders. They eat the other creepy-crawlies that get into my apartment. But if something with a 9-inch legspan was coming at me, I'd most likely flip.

    *shudders*
    ---

  • Whoops, my typo. Shame on me for not previewing. But even 9cm is an awfully big spider.


    ---

  • And just because a word is a term of art in some specialised field of study does not mean that ordinary people cannot use the word in its ordinary sense.

    "The spiders could not be repelled by conventional means as attempts to fumigate the species would run the risk of spreading them further afield."

    Sounds like an apt description of the royal family as well. I wonder if they'll set up those cameras on the spiders as webcams so we can all watch their antics? (The spiders, not the royal family.)

    Dave Conrad aka Dr. A. van Code
    Well a friend of a friend of a friend told me

  • Also discovered, a strange green slime, and a Vorpal Bunny.

  • what are the 6? i know daddy longlegs' venom could but their mouths are too small to bite humans...
  • Absolutely. I don't know herpetology, but I do know English, and it always annoys me to hear people talking about poisonous snakes. In all the serious scientific literature i've read, snakes and spiders have never been referred to as poisonous.
  • But if you ate one of these little buggers wouldnt you get the dose anyway? (possibly even greater than would normally be administered) If so, it is poinous because it is venemous. The reverse, however would not be true.

    -----
    "Almost isn't good enough - but it's almost good enough."
  • From the article:
    The team of experts from Project-ARK will spend the next few days studying the behaviour of the spiders using electronic cameras.

    Gosh kids, doesn't that sound fun? I was starting to feel bad about trolling slashdot for far too many hours. At least I'm not watching video tapes of spiders.

    Hour 1: Spiders build webs.
    Hour 2-96: Spiders wait to eat anything that enters web including males who think they are going to get lucky.

    Hey, wait a minute that sounds like my life!

  • Poisonous?! I've been not not licking toads again.
  • Its a wonderful age we live in where we can still find the most unique lifeforms in the places we would not think they would be at. I mean, who would of thought that archaebacteria which was found in the harshest cliements first such as geysers and menthane deposits could be found all around us. Finding a new type of spider in a castle makes it even more exciting to me, espeacly because it has a capability that only six other spiders found have the. Which is the ability to kill humans with there venom. I wonder if some type of medicine could be found after analyzing the venom. That would be realy intersting!

    -------------------
  • ...my plot to assassinate Bonny Prince Charles has been discovered. Dratted scientists!

    (Hope they don't come after me for this joke the way the Co$ went after Keith Henson [theregister.co.uk]).

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