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Space

Vostok 1 40th Anniversary 147

Posted by Hemos from the one-small-step dept.
ehintz writes "40 years ago today, 4-12-61, Lt. Yuri Gagarin slipped the surly bonds of Earth to become the first man in orbit. His 108 minute flight aboard Vostok 1 from Baikonur Cosmodrome was the stimulus causing Kennedy to make his famous Man on the Moon speech of 5-25-61, resulting in the moon landing of 7-20-69. We owe our comrades thanks for providing the competition that made it happen." ( michael : More links! The APOD notes that this is also the 20th anniversary of the first Shuttle launch. And NASA provides this image of a newspaper front page, which ought to convey the momentous nature of the event to those of us who weren't born at the time.)
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Vostok 1 40th Anniversary

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  • Re:Hoo-yeah! (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    And in about 2 seconds, it's moderated down to (-1, Offtopic). Fucking slashdot editors abusing their priveliges... This will likewise be moderated down, I'm sure...
  • And keeping a space station funcional in orbit for a very long time and not just prematurely Skylabbing it into the Pacific Ocean.

  • Re:Russians are ignored. (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Your from France aren't you? French usually say the same thing...
    Your country has no history! No tradition! Your country isn't as good as we were ever since the renaissance!
    Coming from a country where the tradition is to surrender at an army that drops in their boundary.

    Oh... nice troll btw. When you started up with the 'being female', and 'being catholic' it was obvious, and bringing in a story from your ex-bf? That made it pathetically obvious!
    Moderators need a lesson in recognizing trolling!
  • Is the U.S. the center of the universe?

    The CCCP put the first person in space. Period.

    Had nothing to do with the moon mission. Period.

    Was an impressive technical feat, but aside from being the first "first" for the US Space program, had little, if nothing to do with the CCCP, the Kennedys, etc. (although it shows that some Presidents don't lie ;)
    Over the last few days, I have noticed an increase in the rehtoric being spewed on slashdot, about the Chinese, the Russians (seem to be missing Cuba) possibly due to the media stirring the pot in relation to the loss of an Navy AE-3 spyplane. For the record;
    1-Sputnik was the first man made satellite to orbit the earth
    2- Yuri G. was the first person into Space.
    3- Soviet space craft orbited the moon before Apollo 11
    3- Apollo 11 really landed on the moon (contrary to what I have seen on Fox ;)

    So, I have only one more question.
    What has the US done lately?
  • Everything is rooted in something else, all the way back to the dawn of time. These things were created in America, primarily by black Americans.
  • If the report I saw on TV a few years ago is correct, Yuri Gagarin was not the first human to orbit the planet -- he wast just the first to do it without significant injury. I think at least one cosmonaut died, and others were so greatly injured (broken legs or something) that the USSR didn't want to put them on display..

    I can't remember what show it was, though I think it was Nova or Frontline or something else on PBS..
    --
  • Tim Berners-Lee? British.

    The Web != The Internet.

    The web is a subset of the internet. The internet existed decades before the web. That isn't to say that the web isn't very important, just that it isn't the same thing as the internet (which was, indeed, invented in the US).

  • This may be its hour in the sun, but it is not nearly as creative as other nations were at their peaks, like Britain, Spain, France and Greece. What has America done that compare?

    How about inventing the internet? I would put the internet at least on par with the printing press in its importance in the evolution of human society. It makes instantaneous global communication effortless to the point that people from arbitrary places in the world can gather at places like Slashdot and share thoughts in a manner far more effective than was possible before the internet's invention. It allows anybody to very easily globally publish their opinions with almost no barrier to entry, whereas before you had to be wealthy enough to own a publishing company or you had to invest a great deal of effort and time in spreading your message (slowly) by word of mouth. It's essentially the printing press with an order of magnitude more ease of use and effectiveness.

    Yes, US citizens generally don't have enough world perspective regarding the accomplishments of other countries, but that doesn't mean the US hasn't pulled its own weight in terms of accomplishments.

  • It's great that this event is being commemorated. Personally I thought Laika was more photogenic :)

    However, it annoys me that Gagarin is remembered but the scientists that made it all possible are all but unknown.

    Still, engineers doing all the work and someone else claiming all the credit is the way things always seem to go...
  • Stupid, staggeringly brave to go up in what were probably seriously dangeous spacecraft, Russians.
  • It's not an original viewpoint but it is rather touching.
    No one can deny the supreme magnitude of what was achieved, and in a scientific light this is fanatastic.
    The political side was less savoury as the USSR milked the flight to show their 'superiority' for all it was worth, and yes I think this would be distasteful for any country.

    The stuff about the discrimination is superfluous to all requirements and not a little patronising. Discrimination exists in all forms towards many types of people, not just Russians, women or Catholics.

  • No, I think Gagarin was a hero.
    Maybe I should have put quotes around 'stupid' but I thought my meaning was pretty clear - that Gagarin, and indeed all early astronauts, took significant risks which some paid the price for with their lives. Heck the astronauts we have today are still brave - space flight is not the safest form of travel!
  • So Hobbs DID admit the 1944 slaying!

    Your Working Boy,
    - Otis (GAIM: OtisWild)
  • "I would like to see america and the males of america adopt a position of humility, and allow the dispossessed and discriminated against, such as Russians and women, to breathe free and stake their claim in society."

    Its pretty obvious that you are one of the "dispossessed and discriminated against" who wants everything handed to them on a silver platter. Wake up and smell the toast burning!!! The United States is where it is at today because our founding fathers wholly believed in the idea that one could get ahead if they WORKED HARD.

    In the world, as well as in the United States, there are too damn many people like you who think that hard work counts for nothing. You sound like you are one of those that says they have the "right" to steal from those who work and achieve and "support" lazy, good for nothing asswipes. BULLSHIT!!! If someone wants to "stake a claim in society"...they better get off their ass and work for it.

    As a citizen of the United States...I personally invite you, and your socialist vomit spewing freinds, including all members of the US's Democratic Party, to take a very long walk off a very short pier.

  • Re:Russians are ignored. (Score:3)

    by PD ( 9577 ) <slashdotlinux@pdrap.org> on Thursday April 12, 2001 @08:53AM (#295963) Homepage Journal
    >The A-Bomb

    The A-bomb should not be underemphasized. It was developed at a time when virtually the entire production of the country was devoted to the war effort. For example, during the war, the Japanese managed to produce a handful of ships to replace the ones they lost. America on the other hand, produced thousands and thousands of ships, far outstripping the production of the rest of the world combined.

    And, in the middle of that, the Manhattan project was completed. That effort was even greater than the effort required to go to the moon, and we did it with our spare production capacity.

    So, I'm not sure what that woman is rambling about.
  • But then, I know what the definition of irony is, ie.

    George Dubya Bush is the smartest president ever

    is irony, and tragedy.

    Um...no, that's not ironic. It might be sarcastic, but it's not ironic.

    -David T. C.

  • HOLY CRAP!

    Finally I have an explaination of why I prefer walking, and why my pants are way too small. ;)

    -David T. C.

  • -crosshairs were etched into the lenses, in some photos the rover and men appear ON TOP on the crosshairs -

    Huh? So...the people were inside the cameras? Or did they paint the crosshairs on the picture and decides to just not paint them over the rover and the men? Or did they paint the crosshairs on the backdrops? (Although that doesn't work, cause they moved the cameras, and the crosshairs moved. Maybe they used stop motion or something.)

    Do you realize how stupid this 'proof' is? No matter how 'faked' you might incorrectly think the moon landing was, it's immensely easier to just paint crosshairs on the fucking cameras, whether those cameras are on the moon or on earth in a studio. And if for some reason you can't do that, you just paint them on a TV and broadcast and record off that.

    Seriously, while the rest of the 'proofs' you gave have nice and logical explainations, this one doesn't even need proving, as it is completely nonsensical to start with, and is akin to claiming that because sometimes the 'walk/don't walk' signals don't match up to the traffic lights, the NSA killed JFK because they were worried about his affairs with prominate people. The connection literally doesn't add up. It's like claiming the week has 7 days instead of 10, and, thus, the CIA created AIDS.

    You need to work on this argument a bit, and come up with a convincing explaination for NASA to a) paint crosshairs on each individual camera frame, and b) deliberately leave them off when they would have gone over a pure white background, instead of the rather more sane 'The white just blurred over the black from both sides and made us unable to see the tiny black line.'.

    -David T. C.

  • I'm sure the poster didn't mean to take one of the most eloquent turns of phrase of the 20th century, "the surly bonds of earth...", and apply it toward the Communists space efforts.

    Damn straight I did. The original poem was written by a US pilot serving the RCAF in '41; he was fighting against the Germans, along with Communist allies. Remember the photos of Stalin, Churchill, and FDR? At the time the verse was written the Communists were our allies against the 3rd Reich. Just because Reagan lifted it to use for his Challenger speech doesn't make it off limits for the rest of us. And just what the hell is wrong with the Soviet's space efforts? Are we Americans the only ones allowed to be recognized for our space efforts? Wake up, the cold war ended years ago...

    Regards,
  • Your blurb makes it sound like the only reason getting a man into space was good was because it meant that the Americans decided to put a man on the moon. What ever happened to getting a man into space (and back safely) being an amazing, incredible feat in itself?

    Mea culpa. I didn't mean for it to come across that way, but I see how it could. What it comes down to is this: I consider the moon landing to be one of the greatest accomplishments in the history of human kind, and the USSR was the prime motivator behind it. Yuri and the USSR earned their place in history with his flight; not only did they make that amazing feat of their own, they also pushed the envelope of space exploration by their goading of the US. There's no way the US would have done it in '69 without Sputnik and Vostok (and I strongly suspect Kennedy's assassination/martyrdom was also key here).

    So, I celebrate both achievements, and appreciate just how closely they were related. And I raise my glass to the USSR and Yuri for both their groundbreaking flight and the resulting impact they had on the US space program. The moon landing almost certainly would not have happened when it did if we were honoring John Glenn as the first in orbit.

    Regards,
  • Yes, so are a lot of others. I think you're feeling space envy.

    lol! Space envy! Just because I come from a country (uk) with no space program! ;) I like space envy tho, reminds me of that Ren & Stimpy Space maddess. For the record - kudos to Nasa, I'm proud of both of these accomplishments, but I just think the text of that message a little one sided. I can't help but feel that Mr.Gagarin's effort should be more than just a sentence tacked at the bottom of the article.
  • Glerp! I can type, sorry about that aborted post. What I meant to say is that the write up on APOD is a tad biased. IE: Isn't America great, we launched the space shuttle 20 years ago today, oh and btw, some russian dude did something 40 years ago today. Seems a lot of back slapping at NASA.

    "On April 12, 1981, twenty years ago today, the Space Shuttle Columbia became the first shuttle to orbit the Earth. In this gorgeous time exposure, flood lights play on the Columbia and service structures (left) as it rests atop Complex 39's Pad A at Kennedy Space Center in preparation for first launch. Flown by Commander John W. Young and Pilot Robert L. Crippen, Colombia spent 2 days aloft on its check-out mission, STS-1, which ended in a smooth landing, airplane-style, at Edwards Air Force Base in California. Ferried back to Kennedy by a modified Boeing 747, Colombia was launched again seven months later on STS-2, becoming the first piloted reuseable orbiter. The oldest operating shuttle, Columbia's 1981 debut was followed by shuttles Challenger in 1982 (destroyed in 1986), Discovery in 1983, Atlantis in 1985, and Challenger's replacement Endeavour in 1991. This shuttle fleet has now accomplished over 100 orbital missions. Today also marks the 40th anniversary of the first human in space, Yuri Gagarin."
  • 1-Sputnik was the first man made satellite to orbit the earth
    --TRUE
    2- Yuri G. was the first person into Space.
    --FALSE See above posts
    3- Soviet space craft orbited the moon before Apollo 11
    -- TRUE
    3- Apollo 11 really landed on the moon (contrary to what I have seen on Fox ;)
    -- TRUE
    So, I have only one more question.
    What has the US done lately?
    Spread trash throughout the earths near earth space, advance telecommunications to what it is today, made the first reuseable space vehicle (Ok I'm stretching it on that one.. the shuttle is just a glorified capsule) made the largest spy sattelite in the world (Hubble, so it has the side ability to take pictures of space objects, it makes great photos of russian nude sunbathers.)
    the microprocessor,microcomputer,microwave ovens,internet,ion propulsion space probes,

    want me to continue? I'm not saying that the country formerly known as the CCCP didnt do much, but we wre so far ahead of the planet in technology it aint funny. (except maybe Japan.. they are some clever buggers.)

    Imagine what could be done if the planet banded together..
  • I re-iterate my last sentence....

    Imagine what could be done if the entire planet banded together.

  • Although there is reason to be skeptical, the story isn't as implausible as it might seem.

    There is a lot of evidence for failures being covered up, and it was a lot easier to keep a secret in the Soviet Union than the rest of the world.

    According to the story I read, the Vladamir Ilyushun had a semi successful launch the day before Gagrin, but he crashed landed in China and languished there as an "honored guest" in a hospital for a year.

    It would be an awkward situation for the Russian government to admit the Gagrin wasn't really the first man in space, so it's not totally outrageous. Besides, it's a bit increadible that the Russian space program never had any fatal accidents in its early days.

    OTOH, propaganda comes from both sides, so it could all be a fabrication.

  • I think it is the connection between space flight and weapons technology that has caused all the worlds governments to block private access to space and space flight technology. The availablity of cheap simple space ships like the DC-X make it just to easy for someone to carry out atomic, chemical, or biological attacks anywhere in the world. Just build your weapon, hijack a ship and BOOM!

    If "all the worlds governments" are blocking private access to space, this would be a really bone-headed reason to do so. You could do the same thing with an ocean-going ship. Ever notice how many major world cities are coastal cities?

    Even a small plane would probably work just fine. Remember those folks landing in Red Square with a Piper Cub or something like that?

    And before anyone makes the obvious mistake, no, it's probably not relevant that an SSTO-ish vehicle could get there faster. This is very much a terrorist scenario, in which case it's not as important how long the weapon takes to get there.

  • Re:I belive sputnik had an impact too (Score:3)

    by funkman ( 13736 ) on Thursday April 12, 2001 @07:42AM (#295975)
    There was a larger effect than spying: missiles. The same technology which launches someone into orbit and makes them land in the correct location is "easily" retrofitted to carry a bomb instead of a human. We see the dawn of ICBM's and the race to make them as accurate as possible.

    Given National pride for your own country - a race starts to get humans in orbit. All the time the military is laughing all the way to the bank since a "civilian" agency is footing the bill to develop the technology.

    Why do you think Republicans hated Clinton so much for "giving" rocket technology to the Chinese? (Apart from all the other reasons Clinton was hated by republicans)

  • If you look at the image of the newspaper from 1961 that the story links to, you'll see a headline near the bottom of the page, "Reds Deny Spacemen Have Died." Is that what you're talking about? I can't make out the text on the story.
  • So it is very good to see Russia given its proper dues on an American site, even if it is a counterculture site such as this.
    As my mother used to say "if you've only nice things to say about Americans, don't say anything at all". Nonetheless, I think you're doing a disservice to the citizens of the US. I've read this story on a whole bunch of sites today, most of them american (bottomquark [bottomquark.com], for example).

    If only america as a whole could realise that it is just another country.
    No arguments here. I'm still wondering why the UN didn't send election observers in. But consider: the Americans did put a man on the moon. And a plethora of probes on mars. And, with the ESA, they gave us hubble. The US advances in space have been phenomenal up to about 1972, irrespective of motivation. The tragedy is that they didn't use this momentum; we (humanity) should be fishing through holes in Europan ice by now.

    The worst part about the cold war is that the US thinks they won. Trillions spent unnecessarily on 'defense', and the US are still trying to convince the world that they were not just right, but victorious.
  • [raises shot of Stoly]

    To Yuri Gagarin, first human in space. May he be but the first of untold numbers to come to explore the Final Frontier. . .

  • So it's a stupid tradition. Big deal. But I'll also note that early cosmonauts and astronauts had no relief systems in their suits. As Alan Shepard found out, and as dramatized in "The Right Stuff". . .
  • Also, check out this page [demon.co.uk]. It's much more general (replies to stuff that wasn't brought up in the Fox special).

    Actually, while your at it, check out this site [reptiles.org], which reveals that the existence of the moon itself is just a conspiracy! (Yes, it's a spoof).
  • Actually, there is no proof whatsoever that Gagarin has ever been to orbit.
    "His" autobiography contains memories like "in the orbit everything was just the same as on Earth" (zero-g, anyone heard about it?); there is no record of any orbital launch on that day (and US had capability to detect such occurence); flight trajectory data published was nonsense (half orbit in 15 minutes, other half in hour - good speed control)...
    And when it comes to "dead in training", in the Soviet Empire it could mean anything - from getting killed by drunk driving to dying in failed launch to being executed for straying off Party line.

    So the first CONFIRMED manned flight was American.

    --
  • You could say that America is Open-Source and that's why it has grown so quickly. The Closed-Source countries which preceeded it contributed much, but the freedom of America allowed each to reach his own potential quiclky. The great diversity we now enjoy comes from this.
  • Cheney later clarified the President's remarks. "President Bush and I have a deep and everlasting respect for the great accomplishments that the Russians and former Sovet republics have achieved in the field of space travel," he said while affixing a ball gag to the President.
  • Actually, the Soviets faked his death and sent him to Venus. According to a Stephen Baxter [cix.co.uk] short story.
  • I know my Karma's going to suffer, but I can't let this go by without a comment.

    How can you even begin to compare Russian contributions to America's?

    Russian scientific advances, and let's call them what they WERE, Soviet scientific advances, came at the behest of a command and control economy whereby consumers were starved so that Soviet "technology" could compete and shine with America's. Guess what? America created technology AND built a middle class, all at the same time. The Soviets NEVER came anywhere near being able to do both at the same time.

    And for 20th century discrimination in America, sure, it happened and still happens. People were denied job opportunities, some people OCCASSIONALY lost their lives due to white on black, Protestant on Catholic violence, etc. But in Soviet Russia (and even to an extent in present day Russia), MILLIONS were forcibly relocated from their homelands and FAWKING starved by Stalin and cronies.

    By God, you can't begin to compare the two societies. Yes, the Soviet Union produced technology, but at what an evil expense to people's lives and personal freedoms!
    ----------------------------------
  • As a matter of fact, women consume less oxygen and spend less energy, so they are ideal for space flight.


  • ...the black-and-white one about halfway down the page of the T-shirts sold by The Onion [theonion.com]. :-)

  • How negative / self-obsessed? (Score:4)

    by SmileyBen ( 56580 ) on Thursday April 12, 2001 @07:44AM (#295988) Homepage
    Sorry, I really don't mean this as flamebait, though some may take it as such: do we really need to preface this article in such a negative way? Your blurb makes it sound like the only reason getting a man into space was good was because it meant that the Americans decided to put a man on the moon. What ever happened to getting a man into space (and back safely) being an amazing, incredible feat in itself? I for one think of this as the anniversary of the start of manned space travel, not however many years before the anniversary of the first man on the moon / the launch of the ISS / the first trip to Mars.
  • Ouch.
    I'm sure the poster didn't mean to take one of the most eloquent turns of phrase of the 20th century, "the surly bonds of earth..." [time.com], and apply it toward the Communists space efforts.
    That quote, spoken by Ronald Reagan in 1986 (and paraphrased from a WW2 U.S. airman), is a tribute to the lost Challenger crew. Seems almost ironic to use it to describe a Russian cosmonaut.

    "We will never forget them nor the last time we saw them this morning as they prepared for their journey and waved goodbye and slipped the surly bonds of earth to touch the face of God."
  • I've heard that story as well and I'd say that it was pretty much impossible at that time to launch 2 rockets in 2 days period.

  • Check out http://www.mcs.net/~rusaerog/dead_cosmonauts.html [mcs.net]

    There is certainly enough conflicting infomation regarding the early soviet space program to raise serious questions as to who really was the first man in space. Right now the only thing we are sure of is that Yuri Gagarin was the first Cosmonaut who survived and was in good enough health to be an acceptable soviet hero.

    This page was generated with the help of DOC++.

  • It's a significant American achievement-- one that changed the world. We should take that day and remember it. And take the day off, of course.

  • Yea, i'll agree that russia probably is ignored, but as with all fights, the Victor writes the history... we America did win the Space Race, as we made it to the Moon.

    However, I dont feel as though russia is completly ignored, as they are always protatyed as our vile competitor. As for technology Russia has contributed to the World... I cant comment on that, as I cant think of much. But at the same time, NASA has contributed many things (ie Velcro).

    I Think what is good here is that Russia is trying to do this. Do I Think they will succseed? I think its doubtful, but I wont underestimate the Russians. Why is this great, simple they've set a goal. Sure, we have one too, build the ISS.

    Yea, its a new venture for us, but its not that challenging, as say putting a man on the moon 30 years ago. Its also not just our own goal. This is both good, and bad.

    The Bad: We have little accountablity, yes we share in trying to get it accomplised, and we want to see it done. I certanly do. But, its not firing up the nation like Kenedy did 40 years ago. Half the ppl in the country probably don't even care.

    The Good: We're working together! Its a global community now, so this makes all the more sence. Global Econmy, Global Science. Has to be good.

    Solution: Set a friggin goal that is a real challange, akin to the Apollo program. Put a man on Mars. I know we have plans to do it... but our government doesn't understand it... really. Perhaps doing the international thing with it will help. OR, why dont we try settling down on the Moon a bit... its been awhile since we've been there.

    Seriously, there muse be some company out there willing to help fund an establishment on the moon... or a trip to mars.


  • We have no dillusions that we are better than the cultures before
    Maybe you don't have delusions. Try working for the government sometime.
    ...that is just as ignorant as saying that the US is tuck on itself.
    Try travelling overseas sometime. Correct me if I'm wrong, O great overseas brethren, but the rest of the world pretty much sees the US as a conservative, religious, isolationist State (with a capital S), governed by radicals, where everyone is uptight all the time. Yeah, our standard of living is pretty high, but that doesn't give us the right to tell China to buzz off or to have our rights stolen away from us whenever big corps want to.
  • Besides, Engineers just designed it. It's the technologists and technicians who actually built the thing. It's those people who should be remembered. Hmm.. perhaps the minors for getting the ore and the factory workers for getting the various materials ready for manufacturing? The ceramic and insulation doesn't come from thin air.

  • Re:What do you expect? (Score:3)

    by decipher_saint ( 72686 ) on Thursday April 12, 2001 @07:53AM (#295996)
    This site is run in America, by Americans. British news, or Canadian news or Ugandi news will all be flavoured towards said nationalities viewpoint. Feel offended? Feel "cheated"? Then go somewhere else!

    The Russians have earned respect and authority when it comes to space exploration, all without media spin. I do not believe that they have been "ignored" in any way. When Sputnik went 'round the world, everyone was listening to *beep* *beep* *beep* on the radio, when Yuri went into space, it was all over television. How many people tuned into the death of MIR? Greatness is for history to decide, not the media.

    Also I would like to comment about your diatribe about hypocrisy, granted, sometimes anecdotes can add to a viewpoint, but to be honest it sounded like frustrated venting. I'd like to help you, or tell you that world is a perfect place, but it ain't.

    Anyway this is just how I see things, I'm usually wrong most of the time but, hang in there.

    -----

  • Nevertheless, one thing is admirable: in the newspaper page attached to this article, the general tone is more of an "Oh, damn," instead of an "Oh, shit!" That is, the American press gives credit where it is due, says that the U.S. now has to play catchup, and does it all with an attitude of "well, OK, they did it and that was pretty good, but we think we can do better." This is despite the fact that all evidence now showed that the Russians were technologically superior and could crush us like a bug, thus causing the fear you mentioned.

    Do you really think a similar article would have appeared in Pravda had we made it to space first? I doubt it.

    "Evil Capitalist War Machine Sends Man Into Space to Threaten the State of Well Being of the Laborer in This Glorious Worker's Paradise," seems more likely. Well, ok, maybe that's a bit much, but still...

    God bless the first amendment!
  • Is that a joke? I truly think it is (given your username and sig). But it got moderated up as "insightful", so I have to reply.

    Surely there are more factors to this decision than launch cost and weight such as skills, experience, personality/team dynamics (yes, seriously). By your logic, the best thing to send up wouldn't be women and asians, but small monkeys. Or cats. Sea urchins. Oh, wait, since we've made the jump from people to "lower" animals, send some tulips. Or some mold. Or perhaps a small piece of linoleum. Or air. Or vacuum! Oh, wait, it's already up there. :) Why send a rocket at all?

    Sure, we have some prejudices in NASA and government agencies. Maybe even more than elsewhere. But I think we're moving in the right direction, and I don't think this is an example.

    -Puk
    p.s. If it was a joke, sorry about taking it seriously. ;)
  • Is that a joke? I truly think it is (given your username and sig). But it got moderated up as "insightful", so I have to reply.

    Surely there are more factors to this decision than launch cost and weight such as skills, experience, personality/team dynamics (yes, seriously). By your logic, the best thing to send up wouldn't be women and asians, but small monkeys. Or cats. Sea monkeys. Oh, wait, since we've made the jump from people to "lower" animals, send some tulips. Or some mold. Or perhaps a small piece of linoleum. Or air. Or vacuum! Oh, wait, it's already up there. :) Why send a rocket at all?

    Sure, we have some prejudices in NASA and government agencies. Maybe even more than elsewhere. But I think we're moving in the right direction, and I don't think this is an example.

    -Puk
    p.s. If it was a joke, sorry about taking it seriously. ;)
  • It seems everyone who has been to outer space has been transfigured in some way. Hearing gagarin's (translated) speech, even if it was prepared by soviet writers beforehand(?) was inspiring. Where is the unity espoused by gagarin and tereshkova(? first woman in space I think) close to 40 years ago? It isn't here, where geeks squabble about how great/sucks the united states is. Just forget it for today, and remember that 40 years ago (roughly) the first member of the human tribe left the planet, looked back, and came back transformed.

    PS-I'm going to a yuri's night event (http://www.yurisnight.net) but instead of a bunch of space geeks sipping champagne in a museum it'll be a 9 hour underground party. Seems more fitting somehow L:)
  • well, that would be funny, execpt for the part where it wasn't NASA, but the russians who orbited the earth first. (Altho, if you said 20 years ago, when we launched our first shuttle, it would have been funny) ;-)

  • Re:Yuri Gagarin not First (Score:3)

    by Chairboy ( 88841 ) on Thursday April 12, 2001 @07:28AM (#296002) Homepage
    This is absolutely incorrect. To launch a person into space at that time required an R7 booster. The use and fate of each of those R7s is fully documented and known and the number of people required to keep this a secret is immense.

    Yuri Gagarin WAS the first human into space. The origin of this rumor about dead cosmonauts is mostly a result of cold war propaganda.
  • >That quote, spoken by Ronald Reagan in 1986 (and paraphrased from a WW2 U.S. airman)

    Er, not quite. The quote is from the poem "High Flight", by John Gillespie McGee, Jr., an American pilot flying with the Royal Canadian Air Force, who was killed during a training mission in 1941. The poem is supposed to symbolize the transcendence of flight, regardless of nationality. Reagan may have quoted the poem, but it had been used for years in many contexts. And I can't think of a better application of a poem named "High Flight" than for the first flight of Man off his home world.
  • The Vladimir Ilyushin story may be a hoax. I find conflicting info on the web.
  • >> Jazz. Rock n' roll. The Internet. The A-bomb. The moon. The skyscraper. Abstract expressionism. <<

    Oh great.

    Nukes delivered via the web disquized as music that blasts your ass to the moon in tiny peices resembling abstract art.

    Brought to you by Microsoft-influenced integration.

    Well, the British invented abstract spelling.
  • NASA's astronomy picture of the day [nasa.gov] for 4/12 is a really nice picture of Columbia sitting on the launch pad awaiting her first flight.

    Here's the small [nasa.gov] and large [nasa.gov] images of Columbia.

  • Should we realize we are "just another country" as the others that have faltered? Should we go ahead and fail now and save everyone the time?

    The US has contributed greatly to the world, establishing a country granted rights from the people. Not a country that bestows rights to the people.

    Russia was kind enough to bring the world genocide surpassing even Hitler. The US brought a stance against communism.

    Basically, if we suck, then why does everyone keep copying us? Stop watching our movies, stop buying our stuff, and stop moving here. No? Then stop complaining that everywhere else is better.

  • My mother occasionally mentions the time she read in the news (or somewhere) that at the Skunkworks, designers were trying so hard to remove excess weight from new aircraft (SR-71?) that engineers were paid a $10k bonus for each pound they were able to design out. She naturally wrote a letter to Lockheed with a three word suggestion she estimated to be worth $300k at that rate -- "use women pilots."

    Surprisingly enough, she never got a response...

  • Hear, hear!

    Here's to the ones who went first, who had nothing to guide them but faith in other people's best guesses, trust in their own luck and brains, and hope that there would be people following them.

    joins his glass to others in salute...

  • Does the Soviet Union still exist? It went down without a shot fired; sounds like victory...

    If an enemy changes uniform, picks up another weapon and does not look like your old foe - it does not yet mean that you won.

    Soviet Union had many problems. For one, stronger republics financed weaker ones. The dissolution of USSR cleansed the country, allowed to replace ossified political and economical system with hopefully better one.

    Cold war had no winner at least because sides still have virtually same number of nuclear warheads pointed in each other's direction. The name of one participant changed, but not much more. Political climate started to improve, but events of last couple of years undid all that.

  • Fine, let's see you haul lumber or pull a boat in your 30mpg vehicle. Some people who own trucks actually have work to do. Dumbass.

    Some, yes, of course. Some. A small percentage. I think the writer was more critical of SUV owners than truck owners, though he did paint rather broad strokes.

  • "resulting in the moon landing of 7-20-69"

    That is of course if you believe that man has ever landed on the moon.

    There is no real proof. The moon rocks aren't real proof IMHO.

  • And (to give one example) communism, with its complete disregard of niceties such as the environment (look at their multiple debacles all over Europe and the perpetually-smogged cities in China), is what exactly? What allows you to single out capitalism (under which the USA got the Clean Air Act, the Clean Water Act...)?

    And companys continuously getting variances and waivers so they DON'T have to comply..

    What do you think would happen (environmentally) if all SUV's were charged and environment fee of 2000/year ? Do you think most people would stop driving SUV's ? Probably not.. Those things are the biggest gas pigs in this country.. We could help the envronment by NOT allowing cars with less then 30MPG to be on the road (thus FORCING manufacturers to get off the pots on this one)..

    higher MPG = less gas/oil..
    less gas/oil = less mining/drilling..
    less mining/drilling = less chance of an environmental disaster like the Exxon Valdez.

  • And there is one "fleet average" for passenger cars (27.5 MPG), another for "light trucks" (20.7 MPG, IIRC) and if there's any such requirement for heavier trucks it's a different one. IIRC, one of the big new SUV's (Expedition?) has a GVW above the cutoff point for the light-truck fuel economy standards, so by making the thing heavier and more wasteful the manufacturer raised their CAFE ratings in both categories. It's called "gaming the system".

    Exactly.. They have no intention of giving us cars that can do 100mpg (they CAN do it though).. using the new electric/gas hybrid cars.. until they have their heads nailed to the wall by the govt. to comply with a law demanding 100mpg....

  • I'm raising my glass of vodka to Vladimir Ilyushin, the man who went before him, whose parachute failed to deploy, who returned not a hero, but an invalid. But still. the first.
  • All the Vostok pilots ejected from the capsules and landed separately by individual parachute. The descent capsule weight was about 3000 kG and the rate of its descent was too high for comfortable landing. According to the plan, Gagarin ejected from the capsule at an attitude of approx. 7000 meters and parachuted safely to Earth.

    AFAIK, the Amreicans used water landing from the beginning, utilizing the water cushioning effect, so it was possible for the astronauts to land inside the capsule safely, even at comparatively high descent rate.
  • Hmmmm
    • First object launched (sputnik) - USSR, 1957
    • First lunar probe - USSR, 1959
    • First living launched into space - USSR, 1960
    • First human launched into space - USSR, 1961
    • First woman launched into space - USSR, 1963
    • First human spacewalk - USSR, 1965
    ....
    Russians didn't invest too much effort into manned flight to the moon, they realized the greatest difficulty of such a mission - the return.

  • NASA must have fouled up 40 years ago, given their track record I thought their goal was to crash into as many things as possible. Must have had good people abord that one!
  • Actual quote from the article: "His first post as a fighter pilot was at a Soviet Air Force base".
  • Actually, the U.S. military was already well underway with development of "heavy lift" orbital capabilities using the Atlas booster, however, it had yet to be successfully tested by the time of Sputnik & Vostok if memory serves. This was the main reason why Shepherd and Grissom's flights were sub-orbital using the Mercury/Redstone stack. And the Air Force, not enamored of a civilian-agency monopoly, was going ahead with parallel manned spaceflight programs through Gemini with the Dynasoar and Manned Orbital Laboratory projects, which again if I recall correctly weren't give the budget axe until about 1966.
  • There's a group that has organized a world wide party celebrating this event. There's a web site here. Yuri's Night [yurisnight.net]
    Neat idea, actually seems to have been started by Americans (at least according to the report on NPR this morning). And looks like it's sponsored by the UN Space Generation Advisory Council (?).
  • To all my fellow ham radio operators:

    There is a special event station operating in honor of Gagarin's flight. The call is R40G, and I worked him on 14.194 MHz a couple of nights ago. I don't know if they're putting out a special QSL card or something, but it was pretty neat anyway.

    73 and good DX,

    Matt
    N9ZT

  • There was Lt. Yuri Gagarin, the original space case.

    DanH
    Cav Pilot's Reference Page [cavalrypilot.com]
  • Consider the progress in air travel between the Wright's first flight in 1903 and 1943. Then, consider the lack of progress in space travel in the 40 years since Gagarin's flight.

    Fear of moving into the future will destroy us.

  • Bzzzt! Wrong. FYI, countries like Britain and France (and probably the Netherlands) are proportionally every bit as multicultural as the US. Whether you're talking about the ratio of foreign-born inhabitants, citizens living abroad, size and diversities of minorities, etc...

    One simple fact: the first practicing religion in France is now Islam.

    The idea that the world has waited for America to mix cultures, races and civilizations is Yet Another "America is pioneer" Myth.
  • >are the biggest gas pigs in this country.. We could help the envronment by NOT allowing
    >cars with less then 30MPG to be on the road (thus FORCING manufacturers to get off the pots
    >on this one

    Fine, let's see you haul lumber or pull a boat in your 30mpg vehicle. Some people who own trucks actually have work to do. Dumbass.

    You can't fight the marketplace by mandating minimum fuel economy standards. If gas is cheap, people will WANT to buy big cars. There's already a law called CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy), that mandates a fleet average of about 27.5mpg for cars (20.7mpg for trucks), with penalties if the average of all the cars you sell fall below that. It doesn't work. They build lots of small cars and practically sell at a loss just to keep their average up.
  • A really beautiful large scale plastic model of the Vostok capsule, complete with Yuri who fit into a working, spring loaded, ejection seat.

    I treasured it in my younger days, and of course, have no idea what happened to it.

    Here's to you Yuri, may you orbit eternally.

    KFG
  • It will give me another excuse to get drunk. . .but who really needs an excuse?
  • While I do agree with most of your statement, and I believe that the US is the greatest place to live in the world, I fear that in the following comment, we are changing:

    The US has contributed greatly to the world, establishing a country granted rights from the people. Not a country that bestows rights to the people.

    We may have started out as a country that granted rights from the people, but I believe that we have become more of the other, a country that is bestowing rights to the people. See Report on the Texas Censorware Bill [slashdot.org]. If you have been reading Slashdot regularly and keeping up with the different laws that are trying to be passed in congress, you have to agree that this is seeming to be more of the pattern.

    Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
  • I'd say marketing is it's biggest triumph.

  • I, too, am an engineer. But I'm not annoyed. You work on stuff like that for the goodness of science, not for the glory and popularity. Their contribution to science will always be known, even if their names are not. That's all the engineers and scientists should ever want. We aren't movie stars or models, after all...

  • I belive sputnik had an impact too (Score:3)

    by Teflon Coating ( 177969 ) on Thursday April 12, 2001 @07:14AM (#296033)
    I think sputnik had a larger impact to kennedy because now the russians could monitor the US during the cold war a lot easier. While we only had spy planes that would be intercepted many times, the Russians had satillites that could scan America for almost whatever they wanted. Of course sputnik couldn't do this, but kennedy knew that the russians had accomplished one of the hardest parts to spy planes in space, now they could start building more satillites with better technology which was happening during kennedy's administration.

  • Re:Russians are ignored. (Score:5)

    by micromoog ( 206608 ) on Thursday April 12, 2001 @07:58AM (#296041)
    Oh lord, LA,T is back. Time to feed the trolls . . .

    it is not nearly as creative as other nations were at their peaks, like Britain, Spain, France and Greece. What has America done that compare?

    Jazz. Rock n' roll. The Internet. The A-bomb. The moon. The skyscraper. Abstract expressionism. All within just over 200 years. I don't deny that much came before, and much more is to come, but America is doing pretty well.

    As a woman, I am attacked because of my gender far more here than anywhere else I have been. As a Catholic, I have been attacked.

    How many countries have you been to where women are not allowed to leave the house alone, or own property, or vote, or work? How many countries have you been to where people are routinely bombed/shot/imprisoned for being Catholic? I'm not sure what exactly you mean by "attacked", but Americans have it pretty easy, compared to much of the world.

    I would like to see america and the males of america adopt a position of humility, and allow the dispossessed and discriminated against, such as Russians and women, to breathe free and stake their claim in society.

    This comment doesn't even make sense. That's the whole point of this country.

  • ...The Internet. The A-bomb. The moon. The skyscraper...

    So Americans built the moon? Kick Ass!!! I'd like to see any other country top that!!

    Sorry, had to be done, otherwise we wouldn't have waves.

    Mod me Mad

  • Gagarin ejected from his capsule and parachuted to the Earth while the capsule crashed below him.

    So. That is not even close to any point. He was the first man in space! Who gives a Fsck how he got down.

    Another point to remind you people is that while Americans were fairly open about what they were doing and the Russians were fairly secretive we still have to look at how they were landing.

    Americans, because they were open about it, landed their crews in the oceans. The Russians were landing their crews on dry land. I'm sure I'd jump out too and take my own chance rather than strap myself to a several ton weight and hit the earth at God knows what speed. Besides that there was some sort of malfunction on the craft that forced Yuri Gagarin to eject and land by parachute. Malfunctions happened to Americans too.

    Please God don't let me fuck up.
    What was that?
    Everything is A-OK! -- The Right Stuff

  • Death (Score:4)

    by clinko ( 232501 ) on Thursday April 12, 2001 @07:07AM (#296052) Journal
    Don't you find it ironic that he died in an airplane crash. That's like me dying in a 20 mph mo-ped wreck after getting off my R1.

  • I remember the fear... (Score:4)

    by stonewolf ( 234392 ) on Thursday April 12, 2001 @07:52AM (#296054) Homepage
    I was 8 when Gagarin went up. I was excited that someone had gone into space and disapointed that it wasn't an American.

    Mostly I remember the fear. Everyone knew that a missile that could put up a ship the size of Vostok could put an h-bomb on any city in the world. We started having air raid drills at school and the city tested the air raid sirens for the first time since WWII. The Soviets had sworn to bury us, they had h-bombs, and now there was no way to deny that they had a way to deliver them.

    It's hard to believe just how badly the entire US was scared by this single event. One night I heard a police siren and ran for the basement thinking it was an air raid siren.

    In many ways this was the beginning of the end for the Soviet Union. It convinced us that they were a real threat. A threat so great that they had to be removed. It took a long time and nearly bankrupted the US but there is no Soviet Union any more.

    I think it is the connection between space flight and weapons technology that has caused all the worlds governments to block private access to space and space flight technology. The availablity of cheap simple space ships like the DC-X make it just to easy for someone to carry out atomic, chemical, or biological attacks anywhere in the world. Just build your weapon, hijack a ship and BOOM!

    StoneWolf

  • You are right. And think of all the Indian engineers who are now running the technological world in the shade and who hardly get any credit. I think 30% of NASA and Microsoft employees are Indians. America's reign as a technological leader is about to be caught up. Think of big companies like Sun...

    Anyway, cheers to Gagarin. At that time, you really had to be mad to get satellized! This is what makes them heroes.

  • Re:The surly bonds of Earth... (Score:3)

    by MagikSlinger ( 259969 ) on Thursday April 12, 2001 @07:54AM (#296060) Homepage Journal

    Boy, are some people ignorant.

    That's a rather famous poem by John G. Magee called High Flight [citynet.net] that's been posted in every American airforce bay from here to Cape Canavaral.

    From the referenced page:

    In December 1941, Pilot Officer John G. Magee, a 19-year-old American serving with the Royal Canadian Air Force in England, was killed when his Spitfire collided with another airplane inside a cloud. Several months before his death, he composed his immortal sonnet High Flight a copy of which he fortunately mailed to his parents in the U.S.A.
  • Getting a man into space before the US.

    Too bad that Capitalism is an unstoppable (and possibly planet killing) meme, instantly absorbing any competing ideology, stripping the ideology of it's danger, and reselling it.
  • would be the most common astronauts.

    For all their talk of rationality and science, geeks and engineers are just as full of their stereotypes as those hated jocks. Case in point, NASA, a geek paradise.

    If they were truly rational at NASA, they would look at launch costs of $22,000 USD a kilo, and conclude that the lighter the astronaut they launch, the more scientific payloads they could carry, and the more consumables they could carry, thus allowing longer duration missions.

    And who would the lightest astronauts be? Women and Asians, that's who. But no, your typical Space Shuttle crew looks more like a cleanly shaven Linux kernel developers meeting than a multicultural experience, mostly white men, with perhaps a token woman or Asian.

    As an American taxpayer, I am outraged at this inefficiency. Join me in writing your congresspersons to rectify this.

    If you're not an American, consider emigrating, or perhaps you could ask ESA to allow more women and Asians on Ariane missions.
  • According to this "Dead Cosmonauts" page [mcs.net], this is a hoax, possibly a garbled version of an Apollo-1-style fatality of an early cosmonaut.
  • Is that the same site as the one Sven Grahn debunks here [wineasy.se]?
  • Actually this "dead cosmonauts" page refutes those claims that Gagarin wasn't the first man in space; the cosmonauts missing from the "doctored" pictures are accounted for with training fatalities and disciplinary actions.
  • I think I have an original viewpoint to give here. As I am not American, I am not blinded by the media's indoctrination on this subject. It is clear to me that Russia has contributed a lot to the world technologically speaking, even more than america has, and literarily & philosophically speaking it smashes america into a paper hat.

    So it is very good to see Russia given its proper dues on an American site, even if it is a counterculture site such as this.

    If only america as a whole could realise that it is just another country. This may be its hour in the sun, but it is not nearly as creative as other nations were at their peaks, like Britain, Spain, France and Greece. What has America done that compare?

    Hypocrisy is the problem. As a woman, I am attacked because of my gender far more here than anywhere else I have been. As a Catholic, I have been attacked. My ex boyfriend thought it was because people were jealous.

    I would like to see america and the males of america adopt a position of humility, and allow the dispossessed and discriminated against, such as Russians and women, to breathe free and stake their claim in society.

  • Re:Russians are ignored. (Score:3)

    by SonCorn ( 301537 ) on Thursday April 12, 2001 @07:34AM (#296070)
    Although I find your comments interesting I also think that they are an insult to everything that Humanity has accomplished. You are completely right when you say that the British, French, Greek and Spanish have contributed more to culture. You forget that they have been around a thousand years longer. Also, while we are being fair to all the other poorly treated peoples of the world, what about the numerous Asian cultures that make those European cultures look like an inconsequential spec of dust. What about the colorful cultures of Africa or the ancient cultures of South America. Have they contributed nothing?

    You are right when you say that the Russians have contributed great things to science, etc. Their main problem was that they had brilliant people, but they could not put those ideas into use. For example the physics behind American Stealth technology is based on the discoveries of a Russian scientist that the Soviets could not put into practice.

    The great thing about the USA is that we have become so successful, politcally and scientifically, in such a short time. We have no dillusions that we are better than the cultures before, but we do accept new ideas and we at present are the most technologically advanced country in the world. The USA has the resources to fund the most scientific work and thus is going to continue to be the most scientifcally advanced country.

    Now if we thought we were this great empire that all should worship, then I can assure you that we would be introverted and would not share our discoveries with others, but we want to create a global society.

    The US has its problems, but it recognizes them and it will fix them, and it has fixed many of them. You act as though Europe has no problems, but that is just as ignorant as saying that the US is tuck on itself.

    Have a nice day!

  • Stupid? (Score:3)

    by Spamalamadingdong ( 323207 ) on Thursday April 12, 2001 @07:37AM (#296080) Homepage Journal
    If you think that, you must also think the Wright Brothers were stupid.

    It's often dangerous to do something that nobody has ever done before, but we'd never get anywhere if nobody did anything until it could be pronounced "safe". That's why we have test pilots.
    --
    spam spam spam spam spam spam
    No one expects the Spammish Repetition!

  • Different Standards between US-USSR space program (Score:3)

    by s20451 ( 410424 ) on Thursday April 12, 2001 @07:21AM (#296082) Journal

    I don't wish to take anything away from the Russian space program. However, although it appears that the USSR program was flawless through the late 50's and early 60's, in fact recent documents point out that the Soviets suffered numerous failures, but were able to prevent them from becoming known. The successful Sputnik launch occurred after 3-4 secret failures.

    The Americans, on the other hand, were operating entirely under the eye of the world's press. Even though they were working up the same learning curve as the Soviets, every failure they made was a public debacle.

    Another interesting (and suppressed) fact is that Gagarin ejected from his capsule and parachuted to the Earth while the capsule crashed below him.

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