India To Become Aerospace Powerhouse? 126
jaydub99 writes: "It looks like India will continue to explore new markets for their low-cost, high-tech people. Their next arena could be deploying satellites in high-earth (geostationary) orbit. I wonder how much of the resistance from the U.S. is military-based and how much is economically motivated?"
Re:Concentrate elsewhere (Score:1)
Ummm, India has a middle class of about 100 million people.
Am I implying that India has no problems of poverty? Of course not. But, arguing that India shouldn't spend money on space is just plain patronizing.
Imagine making the same argument to an American Republican: "We should cut funding to NASA and defense contractors until poverty in America is wiped out!"
Commercial exploitation of space might be the first step in creating more wealth for India.
Re:Hmm.. (Score:1)
a plot! (Score:1)
Another country in space? big deal (Score:1)
And what happened to that project to launch from a barge in the Pacific?
Re:New Space Race! (Score:1)
Re:congratulations, India (Score:1)
Re:David Duke on India (Score:1)
Oh ya?!:-7
I can see him standing there with "tremendous admiration" for that little girl covered with pus and flies and using her as an example for what america could become if the americans don't stop non-white masses pouring in.
Personally, I do believe america has the right to maintain its racial ratios - their immigration laws are based on this I believe (racial quotas). I'm all for it.
What I feel totally stupid is how he claims Indian civilization has "declined"! and this so called "decline" happened because "races" mixed! We are healthier now than ever before. We have more freedom and more people enjoy the arts like no time before in India's history. And we are in a "decline"?
But Duke isn't interested in that. He needs to show that mixing of "races" will cause "decline of civilization"s, so he has to pick out a slum to walk through.
If he were really interested in seeing what half-breeds can do, he should visit Kerala which has possibly the highest ratio of Muslims to Hindus in India and see what they have been upto. It has had major racial and cultural infusion from Arabia and N India. And whats happened? They have the most radical democratic political system in the world and have reached levels of literacy and QLI rivalling the US state of Kansas at less than 1/50th the cost. They have a higher literacy rate than Great Britain.
Why bother with Kerala, visit any village in N India and use that as an example. He chose to concentrate on a slum and a slum dweller to prove his stand - that he doesn't want other races mixing with his.
Like I said, I sympathize with his cause, but he better come up with a better example than pointing at slum dwellers and bemoaning the decline of Indian civilization. What ever peak he seems to have seen for Indian civilization had as high a percentage of slum dwellers or people at that subsistence level as there are now.
India is militarily and economically weak (or weaker than the US) at present. Period. We are not in any decline. And our racial heterogenity has nothing to do with anything, and is something a lot of us are proud of.
Heck we have more cultural and "racial" diversity than most continents!
veliath
Re:David Duke on India (Score:1)
Sure if I were a Dravidian supremist (they do exist) and I wanted to point out what a fucked up place America is and how the Aryans and Caucasians in general fuck things up, I would visit some slum in New York or LA and point at the violence and drugs and what not and draw lessons for all mankind.
I hate to break supremists bubbles but the dravidians of India and the Aryans belong to the Caucasoid family along with the Jews and Arabs. Ya Ya Ya, I was disappointed too.
I have noticed that everytime Slashdot mentions something about Indian aerospace, its clubbed under "the utter lunacy department" or some such thing by the moderator and almost a third of the posts are sneers.
I wonder if slashdot is representative of American nerds or just its loud minority.
As an aside they ought to change the title of this website to - "Slashdot: Gossip for nerds, stuff that might matter"
Re:Don't Under-rate the Aryan-Dravidian Hybrids (Score:1)
I hope (Score:1)
Re:Why the US military is peeved (Score:1)
Europe already leader in geostationary launches (Score:1)
Japan also have an ambitious booster program, even though they have been rather unlucky with it. (the H-2 rockets).
Re:India Spending money (Score:1)
Re:Ignorant americans (Score:1)
TheCaptain -
Re:New Space Race! (Score:1)
Re:GSLV been delayed for ages (Score:1)
Re:Hmm.. (Score:1)
Re:No conflict (Score:1)
It's not about the satallites, it the rockets.
not SPACE, but comm bands (Score:1)
What type of satellite can be in which area of geosync has to be tightly regulated or everyone would be wanting to put the same type of high bandwidth comm sat in the most popular areas for their customers. Geosync orbits only work at 0 inclination (equatorial), and most of the equator is water or low population countries. That cuts down the useful space for geosync position by a good deal. For India, they wouldn't want space over the US, so that isn't really an issue. But they will want space that conflicts with those many, many countries of Eur-Asia. There is probably space, but they would have to be willing to work with the regulation agencies to make sure nobody is going to be interfering with anyone else's signals. My original point (maybe made badly) was that it was probably the cooperation issue that made the US and others a little wary about this.
Re:Hmm.. (Score:1)
siri
NASA the monopoly (Score:1)
Not knowing a whole lot about the private sector in aerospace technology, I wouldn't mind seeing NASA slowly get out of the buisness aspect and focus more on entirely pure science research. Unless the technology is already there for buisness to make a decent profit.
-AU
uses of 'low cost-high tech people' (Score:1)
Instead they'll just kill a zillion of them in unreinforced masonry buildings. The first world banned such construction in hazard areas over 50 years ago.
I'm all for space (don't make me out to be a crazy 1960s US liberal), but a country needs to be out of the third-world mindset before it has delivery mechanisims for nuclear weapons. Life in the third world is just way too cheap. That cheapness combined with a means of mass destruction is not a good recipe for any life on the planet.
--Multics
Re:a plot! (Score:1)
ICBMs anyone? (Score:1)
I say "Congrats India!"
Welcome to the club...
Re:India Spending money (Score:1)
Re:California Spending money (Score:1)
USA frittering away money (Score:1)
--
Knowledge is power
Power corrupts
Study hard
Suitcase nukes are rather unlikely threats (Score:1)
I'm not worried about Saddam Hussein doing this either. He's got a lot of the world tired of keeping sanctions against him, but the instant he blew a nuke there would be armies rolling through his country again and this time they wouldn't stop until they could bring his head back on a spear.
--
Knowledge is power
Power corrupts
Study hard
Re:All the sanctions actually worked better for In (Score:1)
But where they're from that's the equivalent of one apartment building
---CONFLICT!!---
Re:Remember Short Circuit? (Score:1)
That's racist not funny: mod the guy down! (Score:1)
Is this where I get to say something really rude about stupid Americans?
Come on, this topic is very interesting and thought provoking. I am sure you can think of more intelligent things to say. Not suprising you posted anonymously.
Come on moderators, knock some points off this guy's posting
Re:Another country in space? big deal (Score:1)
Sea Launch [sea-launch.com]?
It's working quite well. There was a show on The Discovery Channell or TLC about it. They took an old oil rig and converted it into a self propelled launch platform.
"terrible joke, very offensive" (Score:1)
Re:Why the US military is peeved (Score:1)
Re:Didn't this happen with the Communist bloc? (Score:1)
Wrong! (Score:1)
I'm going right to the top here but the dictionary [dictionary.com] defines the first world as The industrialized non-Communist countries of the world.
It defines the second world as The Communist nations of the world, especially as an economic and political bloc.
And it defines the third world as 1. Underdeveloped or developing countries, especially those not allied with Communist countries. or 2. Minority groups as a whole within a larger prevailing culture.
So the dictionary would seem to take my side of the story.
Re:GSLV been delayed for ages (Score:1)
GSLV been delayed for ages (Score:1)
Re:GSLV been delayed for ages (Score:1)
Re:New Space Race! (Score:1)
No conflict (Score:1)
Beyond a macho "We're the only ones allowed to do cool stuff!" type attitude, what does anyone have to fear?
Re:Hmm.. (Score:1)
to be expecting respect for MS programmers..
cheers,
metric
Re:darn Orson Scott Card Books... and missile defe (Score:1)
--
Peace,
Lord Omlette
ICQ# 77863057
Re:thank you too (Score:1)
I do believe we were discussing new developments in India's aerospace industry's direction. Racist jokes had no place in it. Political Correctness has nothing to do with it. Grow up.
--
Peace,
Lord Omlette
ICQ# 77863057
Re:thank you too (Score:1)
wanna hear a irish joke?
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
a lesson in humor (Score:1)
nice try though, apu.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
Re:California Spending money (Score:1)
Re:Remember Short Circuit? (Score:1)
The fact the India is in such a sad state and the fact that all the talents needed to make it a better country are all there, but doing nothing, makes it really really sad.
Re:India Spending money (Score:1)
On one level I disagree cause I want to see more space exploration.
On another level I agree because basic infrastructure should come first. While we're not perfect about this in America, the recent earthquake drives home that they really have a lot of things at home that need improving. That same earthquake in CA wouldn't have killed thousands. It'd have killed a few, but not the mass-destruction we're seeing over there.
on yet another level, though, think of it this way: India isn't looking to spend money onspace, they're looking to INVEST money in space. Note that they are targeting areas where they can make a profit. So they're attempting to boost their economy to the point where the basic infrastructure things you're talking about will be very affordable. Sounds right to me.
jim
Re:Any originality out there? (Score:1)
While we keep cutting NASA's budget? Roughly nil.
With today's technologies, this would require diverting all production of the entire planet for a significant period of time. During this time, our needs would not be cared for. So perhaps this is not a working solution.
Advances in materials science could make a space elevator feasible, but not today.
--
ALL YOUR KARMA ARE BELONG TO US
Re:Why (Score:1)
I had to sit next to a particularly stinky H1B holder while working at Cisco. I do not mean to imply that all H1B holders from India are smelly, but this one was. I don't know whether he bathed or not, but he wore some especially offensively cloying perfume which made me gag.
I'm more interested in Chicken Mahkanwala. Now THAT is something that came from India which I appreciate.
--
ALL YOUR KARMA ARE BELONG TO US
Star Trek! (Score:1)
This is
Poverty vs. satellites.. nope it's population (Score:1)
Re:India Spending money (Score:1)
Oh no! (Score:1)
Re:ICBMs anyone? (Score:1)
[PLINK!] India almost dodged U.S.A's rocket.
Re:No conflict (Score:1)
Re:Concentrate elsewhere (Score:1)
I agree that my country has one of the worst poverty situations in the world and we are still reeling under the impact of an earthquake.
But, who gave you the impression that "5 km outside of Delhi and it doesn't look like a civilised city!!"? How many places in India have you been that you can generalise about the whole country like this?
U tend to forget that India has one of the largest pools of trained technical manpower in the country. The Indian space programme is completely indigenous and has been going on for nearly 25 years and we have already been to space using our *own* rockets!
And, I wonder whether one can really say that stop building spaceships because of other problems. Sure, we may need funds for the reconstruction of Gujarat, but we also need those satellites. In a country as large and divesre as this, we need satellites for remote-sensing, meteorolgy and communications. India can ill-afford the enormous amounts of hard-cash it takes to borrow transponders on other satellites. And, why should we, when we can do it ourselves at a fraction of the cost. The space programme is just not about satellites and rockets, its about pervasive technology. The spinoffs from such a programme are massive.
Re:Hmm.. (Score:1)
Oh, and speaking of rich countries
Re:Hmm.. (Score:1)
Please, please Slashdot - no more India articles. (Score:1)
- racist Indian jokes
- 'they ought to be spending money on other things' comments
-
Oh fuck it, I can't be bothered to continue this posting, you disgust me. (If you feel implicated then the "you" means "you - yes you").
Re:All the sanctions actually worked better for In (Score:1)
In times of natural calamity, all civilised countries assist each other. When the wildfires in the western parts of the US became widespread, fire-fighting teams from Australia and Canada (among others) came over to help out. IIRC, there were a few counties in Montana which were totally under Canadian firefighters' control, a first for the US.
What people are forgetting.... (Score:1)
Space Imaging [spaceimaging.com] is the only (major?) company out there that is commercializing satellite imagery. You can buy satellite images of any spot on the earth for a small chunk'a change. Now, did you know that 4 out of 7 satellites used by SapceImaging to take these shots are Indian ? Checkout the Satellite Constellation [spaceimaging.com] page for more details; the IRS* satellites are all Indian.
During the Gulf War, all of the space imagery that you saw on the networks and newspapers was from Indian satellites.
Re:GSLV been delayed for ages (Score:1)
What do you mean, back to the stone age? Stone age would be a step forward for Pakistan!
Re:Concentrate elsewhere (Score:1)
I mean, 5 km inside Detroit and it doesn't look like a civilised city.
Your point is...?
Re:Didn't this happen with the Communist bloc? (Score:1)
My understanding of the terms are that "first world" describes the "developed countries", the US, Europe, and Japan being obvious examples. Technology, education, and obesity are all widely available. Think happy babies rolling around on carpets.
Second world nations are developing. Many South American nations fall into this area -- they possess, for instance, excellent colleges and hospitals, but also must cope with rural illiteracy and urban slums that make Watts look like Beverly Hills. Think of sturdy peasant farmers, at least in a good year.
Third world nations don't have a pot to piss in. Medical care is atrocious (by first-world standards), famines common, and technology primitive (except for AK-47's). Think swollen bellies and stick-thin arms.
Classing the USSR as "third-world" is probably too strong, but second-world seems reasonable. (Although toward the end there longevity was actually declining, which isn't exactly "developing").
It's true that third world countries have often been neutral in the democracy / communism conflict, but I suspect that reflects a hope of gaining support from both sides in a bidding war rather than any inherent political alignment -- most third world countries are run by Colonels in RayBans anyway.
More competition is good (Score:2)
I only hope that India will not let the environment take a beating on the way up.
Re:No conflict (Score:2)
For instance - Iridium had 60 some odd satellites to get world wide coverage. You would probably have to have a similar number to give a single location 24 hour coverage....(not cheap...)
Now to the issue of India having this technology. What if Pakistan and India decide to have an arm's race. That is just one de-stabalizing possibility.
Maybe it'll be with China?
Then there is the issue of other technologies like weapons of mass distruction that always come along with this path. Will India sell these to third world countries.
Yes - the US is probably worried - along with all of India's neighbors (that includes Russia, Pakistan, and China for starters...)
Re:California Spending money (Score:2)
India has nearly no infrastructure in some places to break! I was talking with an Indian friend today about this very subject. He worked for a power company there before coming here. His story was that power was only on part of the day EVERY day as the rule. They had just completed a plant that would double the area's power capacity and it was insufficient for current needs.
CA has plenty of issues - but these have to do with aging infrastructure, lack of investment in same, a population that refuses to stop growing. (From 19 million in around 79 to 33 million at the end of the 90's.) (Doesn't compare to India's 1 billion though..)
Re:and.... (Score:2)
The fact that WE did it gives the unique perspective that it might be a STUPID idea to go down the same path to the logical conclusion it gets too. (3..2..1.....BOOM)
Re:Ironicy (Score:2)
2) An effective antimissile system would significantly reduce the value of the military hardware and technology that Russia would like to sell.
3) China's plans to invade Taiwan depend on softening up the islands defenses with a ballistic missile barrage. The missile batteries have been built, tho I suppose they could augment them. If we can build an antimissile system in Taiwan, it would make invasion considerably more difficult.
4) When piss-poor countries like North Korea are building ICBM's (they lobbed a three stage missile over northern Japan a couple of years ago), it's obvious that they consider them pretty damn useful, and America really ought to have a defense against them less drastic than turning their nation into a glass parking lot.
You really shouldn't take the word of the butchers of Tiennemen Square at face value, much less a couple of has-beens.
Re:OMG.... (Score:2)
Still in town, send me an email? (Show yourself, o Anonymous Coward from my past! :-)
Why the US military is peeved (Score:2)
Re:possible reasons (Score:2)
There was one, a few years ago, taken by a guy in Houston of the night sky. He pointed the camera up, opened the shutter, and left it for a couple of hours. Of course, the image was dominated by star trails; caused by the earth's rotation.
But, dramatically, there was a string of pearls across the center of the frame, which were the geosynchronous satellites which don't move with respect to the earth. While they are way to dim to see normally, integrated over a few hours on film they showed up quite brightly indeed. One of those really amazing pictures that makes AvWeek worthwhile.
thad
Re:Remember Short Circuit? (Score:2)
Industrialization depends a lot more on having the right institutions than any other factor. Unfortunately India has a long history of stifling their private sector with a layers of inefficient bureaucracy.
New Space Race! (Score:2)
Corrections (Score:2)
Could it be officials here are disturbed because India could jeapordize the US' intentions of getting their Star Wars program back on the map?
It could be more probable that President George W Bush & co. want to push through on their campaign pledge, and reward the defense industry with a multibillion dollar contract. I doubt that a missile capacity that we've known India to be developing for the past decade really sets our schedules.
"The officials, speaking on condition they not be identified, said test preparations are going ahead in the absence of orders to the contrary from Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld."
So Mr. Rumsfeld has himself denounced this but they are still going ahead with it.
If you bothered to read the sentence you noticed more carefully, DefSec Rumsfeld allowed the BMDO to proceed with more testing by not ordering it to stop. The BMDO, because it hasn't received orders to stop, assumes that everything's A-OK and continues with its schedule. No conspiracy here.
In Beijing, Foreign Ministry spokesman Sun Yuxi warned that American missile defense "will have a far-reaching and extensive negative impact on the global and regional strategic balance and stability."
Duh! Why would Beijing not list 20 million bad reasons against a missile defense? Any successful national missile defense, no matter how small, would in all probability negate China's small (20 count) intercontinental nuclear arsenal, forcing them to spend tens of billions of dollars to modernize / expand it. I'll let you put 2 + 2 together.
In Moscow, Defense Minister Igor Sergeyev asserted that a U.S. missile defense could easily be defeated by technologies the former Soviet Union developed in the 1980s in response to President Reagan's Star Wars plan that was a more ambitious attempt to defend against all-out missile attacks.
"We had three mighty programs to asymmetrically counteract U.S. national missile defenses during Reagan's 'Star Wars,"' Sergeyev was quoted as saying by the Interfax news agency. He gave no details. Although the programs were halted, "We still have them and can take them up again," he said.
This is the same Igor Sergeyev that predicted the Kosovo War would start World War III, and said that Chechnya would be cleared of terrorists in a bloodless, precision campaign. And now he says 1) we have ways to neutralize the missile defense (aside from the 6,000 warheads they now have) and 2) but we're not going to tell you anything. O-kay. If you believe anything he says at face value, I've got some nice oceanfront property in Oklahoma you might be interested in.
On one hand, yes, the threat of a suitcase nuke is hundreds of times more likely than a nation being stupid enough to lob one at us via ICBM, and yes, kinetic kill interceptor technology is just too unreliable to be workable right now. But making hysterical arguments (or worse, just repeating those hysterical arguments) against it isn't helping the anti-NMD position.
Don't Under-rate the Aryan-Dravidian Hybrids (Score:2)
Most of the search-engine hits on my rocket engine patent disclosure page [geocities.com] have been from SIFYSEARCH [sify.com] -- a web portal in India.
Clogged? I don't think so! (Score:2)
I am no specialist, but are you sure it is so crowded out there? It is so much bigger in high-orbit than on Earth and there are not billions of satellites, are there?
Re:Hmm.. (Score:2)
Does this mean they'll be assuming responsibility for the 7-11 module on the International Space Station?
}
resp {
It's not just 7-11, you forgeting about (taxi-drivers, circle-k, and 70% of contract programmers
, a good deal of which work at MS}
sig {
-Jon
}
Streamripper [sourceforge.net]
Any originality out there? (Score:2)
Anyone working on the first "non-atmospheric" space craft i.e. one that flys from spacestation to space station?
These damn self-serving corporate money grabbing bastards (and their political exploite[er]s) with their moral imperative to have the most money possible now instead of the best future are just making it harder and harder to dream....sigh
Re:Ironicy (Score:2)
Remember that the USA and the West outspent the Soviets, bankrupting them. It certainly disrupted the Soviet block, among other things.
So just on this basis, I can see that China is not yet ready for an arms race vs the USA.
It's economy is not big enough, yet.
As far as the effectiveness of a missile defense goes, remember that it does not have to be 100% effective.
Even if the defense was 50% effective you would have to spend at LEAST twice as much to get through, and a lot more than that if you want to ensure that you hit the targets you have chosen. You might have to put in four times as much to ensure that you take out your favorite heavily defended target.
That by itself will put additional economic pressure on China. So of course, they would get nervous about this.
All jokes aside (Score:2)
India is rife with corruption and TONS of bureaucracy in multiple languages (fill this out in Hindi, please fill this out in Gujarat, this in Punjabi, wait thirty years for a response, thank you, come again).
If India was such a wonderful hotbed of amazing people, it wouldn't have such a problem with collapsing buildings and starvation.
A lot of Indians are quite knowledgeable and cool, and more power to them. I don't have this strange idea that Indians are good for nothing but convenience stores and selling incredibly cheap knock-off fall-apart things.
I **DO**, however, have a problem with that kind of bureaucracy getting involved with, and screwing up, what amounts to a giant ballistic missile, especially if they use fissile materials. Haree Jamset Ram Singh O-gasket merchants and hair oil, Inc. might have the lowest price on a bid for technology, but what's to stop them from passing off a gasket from a Ford Pinto as same? In a bureaucracy and "very cheap, sir, very cheap" emphasis, NOTHING. And when high explosives are involved, it makes me very nervous.
Again: there is nothing to say that Gujarati buildings COULDN'T have withstood earthquakes: but due to *ahem* cost-cutting and corruption and people on the take, the buildings were slapped together as cheap as possible, risking human lives. This should not be allowed with respect to Space.
Concentrate elsewhere (Score:2)
They just want to be able to say, look at us go we went to space, don't look at our bad side though, which we hid when Clinton came to visit (Delhi's streets were never that good as that day).
congratulations, India (Score:2)
That said, I would like to hope that India, which claims self-sufficiency, would look over all its expenditures, including space, and see what it can divert to emergency aid for the earthquake and for general poverty.
While space and tech development is a tide that lifts all boats, the poverty in India is a humanitarian catastrophe and should be addressed, first, before considering development investment. Otherwise, development in the long run becomes a greater priority than the alleviation of human suffering.
Re:India Spending money (Score:2)
Why (Score:2)
WHAT HAS INDIA EVER DONE TO YOU?
We have no history of slavery or foreign invasion. We have never harmed Americans or US interests -- rather we have actively sought friendship and offered to co-operate in matters of terrorism of which we too are targets. So what's your beef? And don't give me that "take care of your poor people first" -- we have made tremendous strides in that department which you clearly don't know about.
It seems that every time someone posts something about India, everyone wants to join in and put India down. Pretty easy to do, huh? An easy target to vent your pent up anger.
We gave the world Yoga, Buddhism (yes!) and Gandhi's doctrine of non-violence. Ever heard of a Hindu terrorist? Indians in America are one of the wealthiest immigrant groups -- we have VERY low levels of violent crime. Yet we are stereotyped by every movie and TV series that depicts an Indian. I'm sorry but this is MY breaking point.
It is one thing to be un-appreciated but another matter entirely to be put down when you clearly don't deserve it!!
Re:India Spending money (Score:2)
Considering that any true advances into space for mankind, beyond one international space station, will have to be achieved by the budgets and manpower of multiple nations, I cannot see why you wouldn't want another nation to become experienced in space based operations.
It increases the global experience base, it increases the chances for technological breakthroughs, it increases the potential, numbers & extent for space based experiments.
If america thinks only it has the right to push into the cosmos, on the tiny budget allotted to NASA by its government, then I would say it is mistaken, and we will be earth bound for longer if it puts up a fight.
Sure India faces many domestic crisis, but every country does at one point, and given a new round of fuel crisis on the horizon, I might make the assumption that soon we might all have domestic crisis to deal with as nations.
We don't need a space race, what we need is an ounce of cooperation across nations, more then ISS, a global effort mounted by as many nations as possible. It shouldn't be an indian space programme, or a US space programme, it should be a human space programme.
Re:All the sanctions actually worked better for In (Score:2)
Last I heard American military cargo planes touched down on monday to distribute goods. And the US isn't alone in that aid.
Hmm.. (Score:3)
California Spending money (Score:3)
It just seems that California has constant problems with nature as well as their difficulty in even maintaining basic power for their population makes me wary that they may best be spending their money elsewhere.
possible reasons (Score:3)
I'm not saying India is right or wrong or that our policies are, either; I just think that this is a major problem nowadays. Everyone wants the easy solution in geosync, instead of going with arrays. Of course, room in space wouldn't be as much of a problem if companies would just de-orbit their spacecraft after their designed life cycle (or when they are no longer useful, whichever is first).
Other than maybe this reason of non-cooperation, I can't think of any other valid reason we should get upset with them finally joining the space industry. I would love to go over there and work if I got a typical US salary. Good food... mmmm...
thank you too (Score:3)
thanks for contributing to a world so PC, we're not even allowed to laugh at ourselves.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
darn Orson Scott Card Books... and missile defense (Score:3)
-- and America, mighty as some of us are used to thinking of it -- not quite as powerful relative to some other nations as we think. Articles (and posts) like this one keep bringing that thought back.
What I've wondered about, tho', as far as missile defense systems go, is why the United States doesn't simply develop the system and offer to share the technology. Alleviates politcal pressure, solves the "rogue state" problem that's our ostensible reaspon for developin it, and makes us all safer from nukes.
Yeah, I know, it's really quite a naive idea. But I thought I'd mention it.
--
Re:India Spending money (Score:3)
I dont see your point. Do you mean to say that if a country is not on the cutting edge, it shouldn't start?
When a society invests in science and technology it invests in its own future. India has been successful in using its satellites for long distance education, storm relief, weather forecasting, and resource mapping. I think this is commendable.
The common attitude here seems to be, "How dare India invest in sci & tech when it isn't half as perfect as the US? Meanwhile, make way there for Uncle Sam to continue to rape nature"
Stran9er days (Score:3)
How typical of our country (USA), to place restrictions on others. Cuba, India, Iraq, etc., surely I can see some reasons for our countries motivations (terrorism), but if our politicians and enforcement agencies got it together they could save possibly billions farming out launches to India.
Who knows maybe they won't be so unfortunate to lose "their" rockets when they send them to Mars. Its a nice thought to hear about space exploration, satellites, and how it can improve our lives in the long run however, its sad to see buearucrats feel the need to flaunt their political muscles for nonsense at times.
Re:No conflict (Score:4)
The US, UK, China, Soviet Union, France, South Africa, Israel, and India have all done above ground testing. Not just the US.
The US had an Arms Race with the Soviet Union...you can't race by yourself. French and Brits did pretty good there too. Let's not forget that Pakistan and India have also had a nice little arms race too. Again...not just the US.
India has been launching satilites for years...since the 70s...this is nothing new. But it's not really far to do a US-Bash here.
India Spending money (Score:4)
It just seems that a country that has constant problems with nature as well as their difficulty in even maintaining basic power [cnn.com] for their population makes me wary that they may best be spending their money elsewhere.
And yes yes, I realize that these claims might also be applicable to the United States, that we could best be spending the space money elsewhere, but at least we're theoretically on the cutting edge and any of our space development leads into new territory, whereas India is merely exploring territory that is twenty or even thirty years old.
Do with this what you will.
Ironicy (Score:4)
Could it be officials here are disturbed because India could jeapordize the US' intentions of getting their Star Wars program back on the map?
The officials, speaking on condition they not be identified, said test preparations are going ahead in the absence of orders to the contrary from Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld.
So Mr. Rumsfeld has himself denounced this but they are still going ahead with it.
Rumsfeld has been briefed in recent days by Ronald Kadish, the Air Force general who runs the missile defense project office.
Aside from the technical issues yet to be resolved, Russian and Chinese officials offered reminders Tuesday that whatever the design of a U.S. national missile defense, it will be controversial.
In Beijing, Foreign Ministry spokesman Sun Yuxi warned that American missile defense "will have a far-reaching and extensive negative impact on the global and regional strategic balance and stability."
In Moscow, Defense Minister Igor Sergeyev asserted that a U.S. missile defense could easily be defeated by technologies the former Soviet Union developed in the 1980s in response to President Reagan's Star Wars plan that was a more ambitious attempt to defend against all-out missile attacks.
"We had three mighty programs to asymmetrically counteract U.S. national missile defenses during Reagan's 'Star Wars,"' Sergeyev was quoted as saying by the Interfax news agency. He gave no details. Although the programs were halted, "We still have them and can take them up again," he said.
Just think about that for a second. Russia which has in reality little leadership, they'd have nothing to lose. See: Electro Magnetic Pulse [antioffline.com]. Russians have been using it for some time on a very low key basis.
At a European security conference in Germany last Saturday, Rumsfeld said President Bush intends to deploy a national missile defense. But first Rumsfeld is reviewing the status of the project the Bush administration inherited from the Clinton administration and is considering how to fulfill Bush's pledge to provide a missile shield that would cover not only the United States but also its allies.
This is a sham in order to make those who disapprove to think the US would actually give a rats ass in the event of a nuclear war. Its a way for politicians to waste tax dollars in order to get kickbacks. Old old old news.
I could go on but its redundant isn't it
Oh well here are some hot chicks [antioffline.com] aren't you glad you read the whole thing through?
Re:India Spending money (Score:5)
Same goes for the power. It's the rampant stealing of the power which is causing problems.
As, for doing things which are 20-30 years old. The reason is that because of geographical advantage(launch sites near the equator) and cheap research and labour cost they can do it at 1/2 the cost if not lower. They have to launch lots of communication setallites(Important for infrastructure) and remote sensing satellites(important for agriculture). So, you see in the end they save money and not spend it.
Besides, this creates ancillary industries which creatres jobs and saves precious foriegn exchange. So, the money spent on these launches benefits Indian economy instead of some developed country.
So, the short answer is that it actually costs less in the long term for India to develop these capabilities then to pay high prices for them to some other country.
By the way the lower costs is the primary reason that US opposes Indian developing such capability not military applications which are a different ball game. After all US needs to protect it's launching market. Thuough IMHO India will not have enough capacity to take away more then a small but significant share of the launch market. It takes some time to develop that king of manufacturing capacity(note-- not capability)