Space Diving 148
Anonymous Coward writes "There's a Canadian company that wants to introduce a new sport called "space diving." It's like sky diving, but from space down to earth. But the interesting thing is the inspiration behind space diving: NASA had a wacked-out idea in the '60s for astronauts to return to earth without a capsule. The astronauts were expected to leap from the capsule toward earth with nothing but a spacesuit, a backpack, and a retrorocket gun to save them. A ballute (maybe filled with nitrogen or helium but I checked and a light foam was considered) in the backback would slow the reentry so the astronaut wouldn't char, and then parachutes would guide a traditional descent. But the weirdest part is they'd have to fire the gun to point themselves to the right height and position to come down over land. I'd never heard of this escape system before. Read the article."
Re:Um. parachute reentry? (Score:1)
I don't know about everyone else but... (Score:1)
cost? (Score:1)
Re:Not a "whacked out idea" (Score:1)
Re:Military Implications? (Score:1)
;)
1st Law Of Networking: Loose ends are bad, termination is good.
info: (Score:1)
basically: it's a fake. you can tell it's fake just by reading it. the dialouge is worse than Tom Clany's
Or "Heavy Metal" ... (Score:1)
It is feasible (Score:1)
Orbital Decay (Score:1)
How else would Hooker have gotten to earth?
Re:Easy to see now why this never launched. (Score:1)
It seems that everything's gone wrong (Score:1)
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Re:It wouldn't work. (Score:1)
Re:Pressure and Oxygen (Score:1)
Nope, this doesn't happen because you are actually wearing a quite remarkable pressure suit: your skin. What *will* happen if you try to hold your breath is that your lungs will blow out. But if you keep your mouth open and exhale, experiments in depressurization on animals (and on one human -- accident during NASA suit testing) you can expect to last thirty seconds to a minute, though you'll be unconscious quicker than that.
http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answe
Re:Us Crazy Canucks (Score:1)
pansy (Score:1)
That's all you is, afraid.
Special OPs in Space (Score:1)
Re:MOOSE, Paracone, et al. (Score:1)
Re:Not a "whacked out idea" (Score:1)
As for saving the occupants. Maybe. The current theory is that they survived the blast and died on impact. Those are 2 or 3 seconds to end a life that I never want to spend. Watching the ocean come up at you as you plumit? No thanks. So *if* it was designed to allow the people to eject and lower themselves, successfully, then these things would be on trip-sevs now
Not a good idea (Score:1)
^.
( @ )
Soylent Foods, Inc.
1-2-3 ARCH!!!!!!!! (Score:1)
* Finding the spot would be just a *tad* tricky.
* Naked spacediving would be *strongly* discouraged -- lest some, um, appendages break off.
* You could get a good 2000-way going without much trouble at all.
* You could skysurf across the continent.
* Two words -- freestyle fireball.
:)
Re:Um. parachute reentry? (Score:1)
And before you survive reentry... well thats what the backpack and rocket gun (which won't work.. but lets say for the sake of argument it will) are for.
cheers,
ecc
Re:Star Trek Generations. (Score:1)
Re:This has been done (Score:1)
Re:Military Implications? (Score:1)
Re:Military Implications? (Score:1)
Sure, everyone will know when the rocket goes up. It will simply be advertised as a commercial satellite launch. Besides, no one would expect for somebody to be JUMPING OUT of the damn thing!
Re:Special operations (Score:1)
Sure the Navy Seals are tough, and I have a lot of respect for them. However, they are a very small force in the grand scheme of things. Tiny. Just a handful of them. Not enough to make a difference in most cases. It's tough to find a handful of men who can pass Seal training -- now imagine the Rangers' challenge fielding a whole brigade of them!
The Green Berets are primary instructors and trainers. It's not like what you see in the John Wayne movies. The Green Berets mission is to jump in behind enemy lines and train insurgents. An important job, and a tough job -- no doubt. But they are not a direct action force. They work behind the scenes.
Re:Military Implications? (Score:1)
Military Implications? (Score:1)
Canada Space Geeks Ueber Alles! (Score:1)
outlawed in the US. One nice thing about
putting wacky ideas into action in Canada
is that they have a chance of being put
into action.
Re:Us Crazy Canucks (Score:1)
But why would Canada need to send the regiment up into space if it wants them to show up out of nowhere? It already has Saskatchewan.
Surprise from Above! (Score:1)
*Crashes through the Roof* Well, hello everyone, how have you been?
Did the Weird Al song `Slime Creatures from Outer Space' pop into anyone else's head besides mine?
Re:I don't know about everyone else but... (Score:1)
;-)
-Radrik
Re:Us Crazy Canucks (Score:1)
Don't forget the surfboard! (Score:1)
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Re:Bounce Effect? (Score:1)
anacron
Re:It wouldn't work. (Score:1)
There is no "air" up there, so the only thing that slows you down is a balloon filled with a substance that is less dense than the surrounding air, which provides the bouyancy in the other direction (namely, up). So you don't need a parachute, you just need a big, light baloon filled with something that will still provide enough pull to slow you down. Once you get down to about 20-30 thousand feet, you can deploy the drogue chute
The reason hydrogen or helium may not work is because the temprature up there is so low, they may partially liquify. This would have undesierable effects. Thus, the foam is being considered so that the negative impact the low tempratures have will be minimal.
anacron
Re:Mildly OT: space.com (Score:1)
anacron
Re:Us Crazy Canucks (Score:1)
Re:Easy to see now why this never launched. (Score:1)
Re:Boy oh boy. (Score:1)
You crazy moderators crack me up.
Rami
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Re:Darkstar (Score:1)
Darkstar (Score:1)
Re:crazy. (Score:1)
Where do I sign up???
Hey! (Score:1)
-J
Eep, sorry. (Score:1)
But [s]he was right... it was certainly supposed to be in the movie.
-J
Sorta... (Score:1)
I think this was in a "making-of" book or book section, or something of that nature... Anyway, it is a very Star Trek sport.
-J
Re:Sorta... (Score:1)
-J
Re:Not a "whacked out idea" (Score:1)
Could you imagine the mess created by a misshap (Score:1)
SPRINGFIELD MALL GOER FINDS A BIT MORE THAN TOILET PAPER ON HER CAR.
"AT first I thought it was a sick prank, but who would literally destroy my car then cover it in pizzas" states distraught area woman.
Re:Orbital Decay (Score:1)
Re:Us Crazy Canucks (Score:1)
Re:Us Crazy Canucks (Score:1)
Canadian Pop Density [atlas.gc.ca]
Re:Not a "whacked out idea" (Score:1)
Other than the coroners reports you mean? They were most definately all still alive until the hit the water. My grandad has been working in and around the space program since the late 50's and has quite a few colleges still working in NASA. One of his friend's daughters works in the Life Sciences dept in houston and she read the autopsy reports. Atleast 2 of the crew were out of the harnesses and moving around when they hit the water.
Re:Bounce Effect? (Score:1)
It wouldn't work. (Score:1)
And the thrusters to slow you down? This may be the only method of keeping acceleration to ungodly speeds down, but I don't see it being too economical or practical.
And there are many other factors, such as temperature, air to breathe, etc., surely some of this will be covered by the special space diving suit -- that would be one helluva suit...
Either way, if this "space diving" is ever to become a reality, it will take years of research and computer-guided test-drops into the atmosphere with on board items such as those parachutes and thrusters... but of course NASA's already considered that at some point.
Re:Space diving, eh? (Score:1)
"Get in there and fight! I've got your back! I'm right behind you!"
(Friend gets pummeled by ungodly large muscled thing.)
"I'm still behind you!" (as opposed to being in front of you getting pummeled in your place)
Sorry, this was unrelated to the space diving. For my comments on that, read this [slashdot.org].
Re:It wouldn't work. (Score:1)
USPA? (Score:1)
Re:Us Crazy Canucks (Score:1)
Seriously, how do they deal with snow there? In Montreal (where I lived for 36 some odd years), the general rule is, big snow removal gear, running since early in the storm, and often. The downside is 2-3 feet high by 4-6 feet long by the width of the driveway of hard packed snow to clear (and a 10 foot high pile at the end of the front yard).
Re:Sorta... (Score:2)
As for Generations...yes, they filmed a sequence with Kirk landing after making a successful orbital skydive, but it was cut from the final movie. One of the Generations action figures I have is Kirk in the tile-covered jumpsuit.
Eric
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Re:Us Crazy Canucks (Score:2)
Oh my... (Score:2)
*shocked silence*
Hey, Capt. Kirk did it! (Score:2)
Space diving, eh? (Score:2)
You try it first!
Re:Us Crazy Canucks (Score:2)
Re:Us Crazy Canucks (Score:2)
Besides, your drunk rednecks are just as much of a danger to themselves as to others. We'll just airdrop some strong Canadian Beer [labatts.com] beforehand, and they'll all be in a drunken stupor when we arrive.
Re:Us Crazy Canucks (Score:2)
Re:MOOSE, Paracone, et al. (Score:2)
Re:It wouldn't work. (Score:2)
Say you slow down enough to start hitting atmosphere, using that retro rocket, even in the extremely thin atmosphere you should be going fast enough to break the molecules apart.
The best way I can think about doing this is to strap everyone to the outside of the last stage of a rocket. Have it go up a hundred miles, everyone detaches and falls back to earth.
Man, riding a rocket on the OUTSIDE, that's extreme sports.
Later
ErikZ
Star Trek Generations. (Score:2)
Re:Hey! (Score:2)
Re:It wouldn't work. (Score:2)
The problem is that when you get into the lower atmosphere, the baloon causes too much pull. The air is denser, so you can ditch the baloon and switch to a drogue chute to achive the same results -- no spinning.
anacron
Re:Not a "whacked out idea" (Score:2)
Gotta rememebr from that altitude, the diver would exceed the speed of sound and be very aerodynamically unstable, a potentially life threatening problem...
Pressure and Oxygen (Score:2)
I'm an USAF flight surgeon, trained in aerospace physiology. I'm not a skydiver, so those of you that are can add to my discussion below. I'm sure the Canadian folks have considered the following issues, but I thought it might be interesting to shed light on them here:
(1) Armstrong's Line - This is at an altitude of about 60,000 feet. At this level, the pressure is low enough to cause water to boil (remember Boyle's Law in physics?). Everything in you would boil - your blood, your interstitial tissue fluids, even the vitreous bodies (stuff inside your eyeballs). This is one reason why pressure suits are required at that kind of altitude. If you egressed from a spacecraft above that level without a suit, you would go "Cook! Cook! Cook!" (similar to Beavis' "Fire! Fire! Fire!"). After learning about Armstrong's Line way back, I have a different take when I watch movies when people go into space without any pressurization.
(2) Oxygen - Pressurized oxygen is required at higher altitude levels. Oxygen by itself it not enough, because at those levels, the partial pressure of oxygen in your blood is not enough to diffuse into your tissues. Therefore, without oxygen getting into your brain tissues, you would pass out. Interestingly, the TUC (time of useful consciousness, i.e. the length of time you would last without pressurized oxygen) at 25,000 feet is about one minute, while at 35,000 feet is about 15-30 seconds). This is why the airlines say you have to put the oxygen mask on yourself first and then help others next to you (not the other way around!). Another thing, assuming you're using 100% oxygen, measures have to be taken to prevent it from igniting - remember in the Right Stuff, when Yeager ejected at high altitude? It wasn't shown in the film clearly, but when he had ejected, his oxygen caught on fire and had to deal with it on the way down - he ended up with burns on his face. He's one of our regular patients at work, and he's always telling stories like that.
Unfortunately, "Naked Spacediving (tm)" probably wouldn't be possible. Hope this helps a little. Kudos to any non-USAF, non-professional skydiver who pulls this feat off without reaching subterranean mach speeds!
Re:Us Crazy Canucks (Score:2)
<Ob. Canadian "eh"> eh?
1. Yes, American beer is like sex in a canoe (fsking close to water), but I've never seen an American drink that swill -- the decent imported stuff is cheaper than soft drinks here.
2. Texas wild pigs vs. Moose: Imagine a small import car. Imagine it three times it's usual size, but with the same weight. Imagine it mad at you. You got moose. (They're essentially docile, and blind, but can get pretty mean if pissed off).
3. Canadians are world experts at telecom. They could probably coordinate a multi-city syncronized surprise attack from above. How much of telecom experts are Canadians? Canada is so big, with parts so remote, we shot up satelites with the sole purpose of delivering television to people... in the 1960s.
4. Failing a military-style assault, Canadians, well French Canadians from Quebec, could resort to a secret weapon: Poutine. It's got enough artery-clogging stuff to kill even the most insensitized couch potato. Consider it culinary warfare. Quebec soft drinks (to wash it down) contain triple the usual dose of sugar and so rot one's teeth to the point of rendering them ineffective -- the yanks couldn't even bite the invaders (and lest anyone think that Americans won't eat garbage, remember that they invented McDonalds, KFC, and, shudder, Taco Bell, complete with talking dog).
5. Canadians would attack in winter. From my experience, American cities and snow don't mix, becoming crippled with a 12 inch snowfall. Canadian cities get this about every 3-4 weeks in the winter. Nothing stops. Imaging a snowblower with a 100 inch wide and 36 inch tall maw, blowing snow 30 feet into the back of a truck (or your front yard). Imagine a vehicle big and strong enough to push the thing. Canadians know how to deal with snow. Americans don't even know what "snow tires" are. Yup, Canadians would attack in winter.
6. Celine Dion, Anne Murray, and Rita McNeal. What, you thought they were singers? Canadians think of them as "acoustic soldiers".
Re:Not a "whacked out idea" (Score:2)
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Re:Not a "whacked out idea" (Score:2)
Space diving rules (Score:2)
Re:Not a "whacked out idea" (Score:2)
Project Mercury (Score:2)
Mmm.. mush go watch "Right Stuff" now...
Allen Steele wrote a chapter on this (Score:2)
This has been done (Score:2)
In 1960, Joe Kittinger went up in a helium balloon. This man is sometimes regarded as the first man in space, although he just went 20 miles up (outside the atmosphere, anyway).
A recent BBC documentary showed a film from this event, as the guy was smart enough to bring a film camera ;-)
Read more at http://fy.chalmers.se/~f3aamp/teaching/np/balloon. html [chalmers.se]
and http://www2.tsixroads.com/corinth/jk016.html [tsixroads.com].
Space Diving.. (Score:2)
--------------------------------------
I'm a karma whore, mod me up damn you!
That's what ballutes are for (Score:3)
A regular parachute will not deploy because there is not enough air, but the ballute will inflate and create just enough drag in the thin atmosphere to stabilize the spacediver.
I wonder if Cheryl Stearns is also considering using a ballute for her record setting dive.
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MOOSE, Paracone, et al. (Score:3)
And let's not forget the space diving scene that Voyager's Torres does. Hopping out of a shuttlecraft and doing reentry wearing a spacesuit covered with heat tiles.
Re:Easy to see now why this never launched. (Score:3)
Absurd (Score:3)
The article mentions jumping from a hight of 62 miles. That's interesting.
The highest jump ever performed to date was done by a guy name Joe Kittinger back in the 60's. His jump from a weather balloon was from an altitude of about 103,000 feet - or 19.5 miles.
The highest skydive EVER done was only at 19 miles, when this space article is talking about over 60 miles. Hrm. Yeah, I'll just line up for that one.
Whenever you hear stories about NASA (the air force, actually) testing escape procedures during the moon program, well - this is it. Kittinger was an air force captain.
It's interesting to note that Kittinger actually experienced a failure of his spacesuit during the jump. He landed with a (american) football sized right hand. He did not suffer any long term effects of the injury.
Kittinger's jump was scheduled to be one of three jumps. It was not repeated because a: it was two dangerous, b: it was too expensive.
Cheryl Sterns is going just a few thousand feet higher in her attempt. Read about it on Discover.com Should she succeed she will hold the record for the highest jump. To pay for her jump, Cheryl has organized the support of a great many sponsors.
You'll often hear snipits about both Kittinger and Sterns having to wear drogue parachutes to help keep them stable. While it was true for Kittinger, it is not true for Sterns. Kittinger required a drogue parachute for one simple reason: they hadn't figured out how to maintain a stable body position at any altitude.
Sterns will not require one, but may choose to use one. As she gets higher, obviously the air preasure gets smaller. The reduced air preasure will allow her to fall faster. The higher you go, the faster you fall. The faster you fall, the "wind" in your face increases. Your ability to control yourself is dependant upon the amount of "wind" in your face.
IE - if you're at terminal velocity, you can control yourself. As the air preasure decreases, terminal velocity increases.
Anyways, why is this absurd?
First of all the cost. Skydivers are really going to pay for a DISPOSABLE TWO-PHASE SOLID FUEL ROCKET???? WTF??? ARE YOU NUTS?
Secondly, it's a HELL OF A LOT cheaper to go to the altitude that Kittinger did or Sterns will. Why? weather balloons are a hell of a lot cheaper then two-phase rockets.
Thirdly, the return on investment just isn't that great. I mean, you've tripple the altitude (19 miles vs 60), but you need to remember that the higher you go, the less air resistance, the faster you go. By tripleing the distance, I seriously doubt you'd get a significantly longer freefall.
known estimated freefall times:
10,000 feet: 40 seconds. [*]
15,000 feet: 60 seconds. [*]
26,000 feet: 100 seconds. [*]
100,000 feet: 220 seconds!
327,000 feet: ???
* - from my personal log book.
Anyways, I'm offering bets that we won't be seeing this anytime in our lifetime... or our kids... or our grandkids... It just doesn't make sense.
_Am
Isn't one prize enough? (Score:3)
^.
( @ )
Soylent Foods, Inc.
Here's somebody who's allready thinking about this (Score:3)
Re:The new ValuJet (Score:3)
"Thank you for flying air re-entry - you are about to touch down on your chosen building in downtown Boston. Your hand luggage is touching down in Manhattan and your underhold luggage is touching down in London, Paris and Prague. We hope you will appreciate the fact that your body is still intact. We look forward to trying to correct this oversight on future flights."
:)
Tandem Jumping (Score:3)
Of course, this immediately leads to:
"Any ol' loser can be in the Mile High Club, but I joined the 50 Mile High Club!"
Man, this thing just brings whole new meaning to the concept of re-entry
Sub-Orbital Skydiving... (Score:3)
http://slashdot.org/articles/00/11/02/0411221.sht
Not a "whacked out idea" (Score:3)
Second, it's not far-fetched, it worked! Twice! both paticipants survived the incident unharmed, and had NASA had chosen to inherit the technology it might have saved Challenger.
Um. parachute reentry? (Score:4)
Neither of these really work outside the atmosphere!
I can only presume they only fly you up to a height that, while arguably 'in space' is not totally out of the atmosphere--just most of it.
I think I won't be first in line for this. MAybe 100th.
Mildly OT: space.com (Score:4)
Easy to see now why this never launched. (Score:4)
Re:Not a "whacked out idea" (Score:4)
However, there's no proof to what extent the vehicle leaked, as it was significantly damaged on impact, and all power was cut which stopped the audio recorder at the point when the spacecraft's tanks exploded.
Possibly if the crew had been in a pressure suit and/or were supplied with oxygen, and they had a bail out system then they might have survived, but it's probably unlikely even then. Bailing out at supersonic speeds is nearly impossible even with ejector seats.
Ob skydiving post (Score:4)
For more humorous skydiving things, check out
http://www.afn.org/skydive/humor/
Blood on the Risers
Sung to the tune of "Battle Hymn of the Republic"
Revised and edited for sport by Little David
First jumper on the wingstrut called the spotter as he looked
Our hero now was fearless for he'd read Russ Gunby's book
He jumped right out into the blast, his static line unhooked
He ain't going to jump no more.
Chorus:
Gory, Gory, what a helluva way to die,
Gory, gory, what a helluva way to die
Gory, gory what a helluva way to die
He ain't going to jump no more.
He counted long, he counted loud, six thousand was his goal
He tumbled out of stable and began a forward roll
He spun out flat, began to dive and went out of control
He ain't gonna jump no more.
Chorus (above)
The risers wrapped around his neck, connectors cracked his dome
The lines were snarled and tied in knots around his skinny bones
The canopy became his shroud, he hurtled to the ground
He ain't gonna jump no more.
Chorus (above)
He pulled the handle on his reserve and threw it far away
He tried to grab the skirt, but all his thumbs got in the way
He threw it out all full of holes and then began to pray
He ain't gonna jump no more.
Chorus (above)
The days he'd lived and loved and laughed kept running through his mind
He thought about the girl below, the one he'd left behind
He thought about the medico's and wondered what they'd find
He ain't gonna jump no more.
Chorus (above)
The ambulance was on the spot, its mighty siren wailed
The medics rolled their sleeves and smiled as through the air he sailed
For it had been a week or more since last a chute had failed
He ain't gonna jump no more.
Chorus (above)
The drop zone coming fast, a hundred miles or more
"I get his helmet and his boots," he heard a buddy roar
He bounced around the runway in the welter of his gore
He ain't gonna jump no more.
Chorus (above)
His pelvis crashed into his chest, his ribs poked through his side
His helmet bounced a hundred feet, his head was still inside
The ground crew stood there laughing as he rolled around and died
He ain't gonna jump no more.
Chorus (above)
The new ValuJet (Score:5)
I'm seeing new uses for building roofs. Executives could land exactly on the building they wanted to visit, rather than waiting for cabs and lugging luggage through security checkpoints. As a frequent flier, let me just say that this is one heck of an idea.
Not.
Us Crazy Canucks (Score:5)
Essentially leaderless, you Americans will be easy pickings for our elite spacedivers. Imagine the surprise advantage of having a regiment of troops show up out of nowhere. Once military objectives have been achieved, we will appropriate your radio stations, and subject you to Canadian content, 24-7. Those Americans who do not kill themselves after two continuous hours of Celine Dion will be given the option of slavery or becoming part of FROG (France Reconnisance Operations Group).
Our next objective will be Buckingham Palace. A quick, effective strike on the Royal Family will destroy the tabloid industry and thus destabilize the world economy. Demoralized and destitute, the rest of the world shall fall beneath the crunch of our hockey skates.