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Surnames Genetically Correlated 12

Posted by jamie from the tell-it-to-Malcolm-X dept.
Richey writes "The BBC has a story about a scientist who has discovered strong links between your genetic makeup and your surname. To quote from the site: 'This surprising discovery suggests that forensic evidence left at the scene of a crime could be read in a DNA laboratory and reveal the criminal's name.' That seems unlikely, but I'm still glad that my surname's Smith!" Doesn't work on women for some reason.
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Surnames Genetically Correlated More

Surnames Genetically Correlated

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  • Well, but the point is that the prevailing theory among genealogists was that any given surname originated from a number of people - this suggests that that may not be the case.

    Matt


    Matthew J Zito, CCNA

  • At first, I thought this was another belated April Fools Joke. It sounds a bit trivial:

    My DNA is what it is because it has been passed on by my ancestors. My surname is what it is because it has been passed on by my ancestors. That's why most of my family has similar DNA and why the male side of my family tree (going up from where I stand) has the same surnames.

    Of course the correlation decreases using larger groups.. but it's still trivial.

    I must admit that it's interesting to see how it can be applied in genealogy, the fidelity rate example was clever.


  • I can't imagine the amount of insight these researchers have shown. My father gave me half my genetic makeup and he gave me my last name. How could there ever be a correlation?

    While this seems to be minorly useful at first, I kinda doubt broad application of it. Let's say a crime happens in Fargo, ND and genetic evidence is left at the scene. Now the police use there genetic info/surname data base to find out that the last name is either anderson or johnson (probably). In just the Fargo phone book, there are over 5 pages of anderson's and johnson's (not to mention the andersen's and johnsen's and the jonsen's... etc). And then to try to use this in a larger city... I don't think so. You need to have a subject in mind. And if you have a subject in mind, what's the point of correlating it with a database. Just go get a sample from the suspect.

    My 2 cents.

    provolt
    gogeek.org
  • The article [yahoo.com] say they completed the first sequencing of one persons genes, but it is the sequencing that still must be done. They have the full listing of all the DNA base pairs, but they have to assemble them into the order in which they are assembled. I think they do this by having multiple copies of each chromosome each broken in a different way, by overlaying the matching sections of the different pieces they would then be able to assemble that chromosome.

  • Mongolia is forcing all of it's residents to choose a surname, because a large portion of the population relies on just one name for themselves. Interestingly enough, 50%+ have chosen 'Borjigon' as their new surname, because it was the surname of their national hero, Genghis Khan. I can see it now, 'Mr. Borjigon, would you please take the stand?'
  • Thank you for that beautiful explaination - It was very insightful. Now let me give you some 'insight'... "..-' Doesn't work on women for some reason..." Was a joke... and I'm fairly confident we all know why, with out the help of your 9th grade Biology book. But again, thanks for the explaintion. Remind me to invite you out to the comedy clubs some time... Best wishes to your X's and Y's
  • The reason it doesn't work for females is because they have two X heterosomes (Chromosomes that determine gender) one of which comes from the father and one from the mother, whereas males have and X chromosome and a Y chromosome.
    The Y chromosome only comes from the father and so should remain (relatively) similair between members of the same family

  • Thanks to prof. Sykes for sharing this with the world, we could never have worked this out all by ourselves :)

    Apart form the fact that this doesn't work for larger groups of people with the same surname, there are a few other problems:
    Not in every country in the world is the child named after the father.

    • For example in Island, the surname of a child is composed of the *first* name of the father, followed by the indication of the gender: The daughter of Sigmund will be called "Sigmundsdottir" (daughter of Sigmund). His son will be called Sigmundsson. Etc...
    • In the country where I live (Netherlands), people are free to choose whether the child will be called after the mother or the father


    There goes yet another theory......

  • So in other words, if I change my last name they'll never catch me. Nice.
  • Imagine this:
    We have a complete map of the human genes. What each of them do. A crime is committed, and there is found genetic evidence at the crime scene. The forensic detectives break it down, and feeds it into a computer. The computer then generates an exact "virtual copy" of the criminal. (Height, haircolor, eyecolor and so on). Eye witnesses are no longer needed to get a phantom drawing. In fact, we could even have 3D models of the criminals standing on street corners asking people passing by "Have you seen a man that looks just like me? If you have, please contact your local police, cause he has committed a serious crime. There will be a reward."

    Just think about that...


    Chris...

  • I'd have to say, I'm pretty skeptical of the whole thing. After all, using the whole genome, it is still difficult to amass sufficient evidence to convict. The only use for genetic forensics that I can see is to rule out people as suspects. Even that is fraught with technical difficulties. For example, although you have found some traces of DNA at the crime scene, it is almost impossible (IMHO) to determine _when_ it was deposited, unless fortune is smiling on you.

    In addition, the fact that the Y chromosome is relatively the same across generations (much more than 50%!!) is no big surprise. The only chance for recombination is with the paternal X at/near the pseudoautosomal region during meioses. In other words, only a portion of the Y can actually be exchanged between generations. A large part of it should _never_ change, except due to mutations which occur at a very low rate.

    To me, this seems like it would be great for paternity suits involving male babies. But for little else. After all, you first need informative (polymorphic) markers in the non-pseudoautosomal region to even begin addressing this issue. And the Y is the least studied chromosome out there, in genomic term at least.

    -Todd
  • I think you are underestimating the number of base pairs on the Y chromosome. Yes, it is the smallest chromosome, but it should only take about 32 unique sites on the chromosome to identify every male on the planet (or at least every male lineage on the planet) 2^32 = 4,294,967,296.

    Two examples I recall from news stories in the last few years:

    - With a very high level of certainty, it was determined that at least one of Sally Hemmings descendents had a male ancestor related to, if not one and the same as, President Thomas Jefferson. There was a fairly unique mutation on the Y chromosome. http://www.people.virginia.edu/ ~rjh9u/jeffhemm.html [virginia.edu]

    - A report in Nature determined that jews with the last name Kahn, Cohen, Cohn, and Kohn, (which translates as priest) share a common gene on their Y-chromosome unique to this group of surnames. http://www.fullfeed.com/~scribe/dig est19973.htm [fullfeed.com]

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