Study Links Personal Music Players To Hearing Loss 405
fprintf writes "A recent NY Times article discusses links between personal music players and hearing loss. This is not anything new; personally, I have hearing loss from listening to my Sony Walkman cassette player many years ago. However, given the widespread use of the personal music players, I see people using earbuds everywhere; is there a technical solution to the potential danger?"
Turn down the volume (Score:5, Insightful)
s there a technical solution to the potential danger ?
Yes - very technical. Turn down the volume.
Re:Turn down the volume (Score:5, Insightful)
Yea that was going to be my suggestion.
The problem is that earbuds don't really cut down the ambient sound so people crank up the volume to over power the noise.
Re:Turn down the volume (Score:5, Insightful)
This is very old news, a large part of it is indeed poorly fitting earbuds and ones that don't block all the noise. None of the ones shipped by most companies are worth using, but the iPod ones are pretty bad and people seem to resist paying for a decent pair.
Yes, $50-100 is a fair amount of money, but what exactly is the monetary value of not losing ones hearing prematurely? Plus my shure e2c do a pretty good job of giving me a quality listening experience in most places.
And if that's too much money, one can always just pay for a cheaper set and deal with the over the head variety.
Re:Turn down the volume (Score:5, Funny)
This is very old news
Exactly. I mean, WTF...
"This just in: Putting loud-speakers inside your ear and listening to music in too high volume for extended periods of time has been linked to hearing loss!"
Re:Turn down the volume (Score:5, Funny)
<loud>WHAT?</loud>
Re:Turn down the volume (Score:5, Funny)
<loud>WHAT?</loud>
SOMETHING ABOUT PUTTING CLOUD SNEAKERS INSIDE YOUR BEER I THINK!
Re:Turn down the volume (Score:5, Funny)
I'm pretty sure he said, "Putting loud-speakers inside your ear purple monkey dishwasher."
Re:Turn down the volume (Score:4, Informative)
I recently ended up on a party where the music was so loud, that I contacted a senator with the idea of a legal obligation to make earplugs available at dancings and parties. When I say loud, I mean that my t-shirt was moving with the beats.
He's also a doctor, so I figured he would realize the dangers. His answer was very positive, and gave me some further information on the damage done: apparently, damage done by short term exposure can heal, but long term exposure is permanent. He was also working on legislation to limit the maximum volume of mp3 players.
This is a lingering problem that will manifest itself in the next decades when hearing implants will become much more common.
Personally, I cecame much more aware of the problem after I spoke to a friend who has worked on sound measurements of jet fighter his whole life, and now he hears a loud, high-pitched tone 24/7, driving him crazy sometimes. The "solution" is to have two hearing aids, not to amplify the sounds around him, but to inject white noise. This drowns te tone he hears partly (our brains cancels out white noise), making his life more or less bearable. But I think it is still hard for him. Just imagine how it must feel and you'll realize it must be.
So yes, this is a real problem, and everybody should at least be aware of it.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Its called tinnitus. Patrick Stewart is a pretty well known case. Band musicians tend to get it from playing in front of deafening monitors all the time as well. Don't think there is much that you can do about it. Limiting the volume of mp3 players would be a terrible idea. My cheap insignia is only really listenable between 30-40 on the dial. 40 is the max. Maybe I am going deaf too..... ;)
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Re:Turn down the volume (Score:5, Insightful)
I have a better idea, don't contact your senator and make your problems ours. Leave the party
screw you people and your legislation of mp3 volumes. IF YOU DONT LIKE IT GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. TURN DOWN THE VOLUME, FILE A NOISE COMPLAINT.
if you are going to a party and are concerned with your hearing and volume, bring your own god damn ear plugs. Why should it be my problem? your health is your job. I bring ear plugs to every concert I go to; i don't expect someone else to do it for me.
I dont want to hear it either but dont tell me how to fix a problem that doesnt exist.
Your friend took a job with high risks and sold his health for money. go cry to your mom about it.
Re:Turn down the volume (Score:4, Interesting)
no it can't sorry. read a book. the problem is physical damage to your ear drums called shearing... your ear drums arent a muscle like your lungs. its a nerve.
sorta like if you break your neck and spine they dont grow back, or if you get a scar ...
Re:Turn down the volume (Score:4, Interesting)
No, your ear drums are not a nerve. They're a tympanic membrane. Where you lose your hearing is from the loss and the degradation of the three inner ear bones caused by intense sound pressure that the tympanic membrane transmits, either as a result of standing next to loud speakers or having a set of earbuds crammed almost up against your ear drum.
This will also affect your balance, as the cilia in your cochlea break from this, and so do the tiny sodium/calcium deposits in your cochlea that act as balance weights.
Re: (Score:3)
We know it's bad for us just as every smoker should know that smoking's bad for them.
Re:Turn down the volume (Score:5, Insightful)
But you wouldn't have to turn the volume up so loud to drown out road noise if your headphones did a better job of blocking out noise in the first place. That's the point.
Re:Turn down the volume (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Turn down the volume (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
There is one way that Ipods are better than the Cassette Walkmans I used as a teenager. - Due to the often-extreme amount of AAC or MP3 compression, they sound like utter crap when turned to loud volumes (lots of metallic-sounding noises). Ipods actually sound best when they are low in volume, so as to hide the compression artifacts.
>>>I exercise a lot and I need loud music to distract me from pain as well as road noises.
(20 years later)
"Sorry wha? I cannae hear ya! Yeah my ears are sho
Re:Turn down the volume (Score:5, Insightful)
Some of us listen to our music loud because we enjoy it. I exercise a lot and I need loud music to distract me from pain as well as road noises.
We know it's bad for us just as every smoker should know that smoking's bad for them.
I think that many or most listeners actually don't know how much listening to loud music can cost. Most kids listening to music on earbuds in the subway turned up so loud so that I can hear lyrics from across the aisle probably know it's "bad" but don't know that doing it for just an hour can (and likely will) affect their hearing for the rest of their lives. My hearing suffered from rock concerts, and after I few years the loss had become noticeable (which is a difficult thing unless you get your hearing tested, since there's no easy standard for comparison when your hearing gets worse over a timescale of months or years). I knew it was potentially destructive before I went to so many shows without any sort of ear protection, but I thought, as you say, that it was worth it because I enjoyed it. Had I realized the extent of the risk, I might have behaved differently.
Maybe the "technical solution" is to include hearing tests in every medical checkup, since they only take a couple minutes.
Re:Turn down the volume (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Turn down the volume (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe the "technical solution" is to include hearing tests in every medical checkup, since they only take a couple minutes.
Too bad most doctors are too biased or ignorant enough to stop listening to you as soon as their hear the word "iPod".
I own an iPhone and a pair of Etymotic HF2 earphones. These are in-ear, noise isolating earphones, and I use them exactly because I don't want to turn my volume too high. Most of the time, I hear to music just one click above silence (I mean, turn the volume to zero, than press up just once), two if I'm in a very noise environment, like walking in the streets.
I seriously doubt hearing music at these levels could cause any long term hearing loss, but I've noticed my ears started ringing a few months ago -- maybe it's always been there, I don't know, but I only noticed recently.
I've visited an ENT recently and he completely dismissed everything I've said as soon as he heard I had a music player. I mentioned the low volume, the noise isolating earphones, but he just ignored me. He "prescribed" me to stop using earphones, period.
So, yes, include hearing tests in every medical checkup, but please educate doctors about modern equipment and their actual effect on hearing.
Re:Turn down the volume (Score:5, Interesting)
I was a bit late going to my first proper rock concert, I was 18. I stood right at the front, and it was brilliant. Then I listened to the album using headphones when I got home -- but at full volume, because my hearing was still suffering from the concert and I wanted loud. Big mistake -- the next morning I couldn't hear anything. I've never been so scared as when I woke up at 5am because my ears hurt and I couldn't hear anything.
Thankfully my hearing returned in one ear the next day, and in the other the day after.
I think the headphones were to blame, but I bought some earplugs for about £15 from eBay and I've used them at every concert I've been to since then. They don't distort the music, and it's still fun, and I don't feel like my ears are full of fluff when I leave.
I don't use headphones after going to a club/gig either.
Don't lose the music! [dontlosethemusic.com] (excellent advice)
Re:Turn down the volume (Score:4, Insightful)
Nobody needs to mod you flamebait. The volume-limiter debate has been done to death. The powers-that-be were suitably educated and now realise that the widely-varying efficiency difference between headphones makes any electronic limiter useless. A limit that would stop you killing your hearing on a mid-range pair would make the music inaudible on a â1 pair, and would still allow you to kill your hearing with a set of â100 isolating earbuds. Not to mention the existence of portable passive speakers, combined headphone/line-in and other such fun.
It won't happen. It can't happen. The manufacturers won't let it.
HAL.
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Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Social responsibility (Score:3, Insightful)
Even if you can pay for things that does not mean you are not affecting others.
In places with a socialized health care system (civilized countries mostly) it is to state the obvious that the state will protect innocent bystanders of the carelessness of others as well as promote socially responsible conducts in order to maximize health care resources.
In places where the law of the jungle prevails, even if you can afford to pay for care, the health resources are still a finite resource, and by people careless
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I'm cool with that, so long as I'm not asked to foot the bill for anyone's health care later in life for idiotic choices they make now.
Unfortunately, we seem destined in the US to push forward universal health care. At that point, I'll be obligated to pay for the mistake of every nitwit who blew their ears out with 110dB music, fried their brain with drugs, smoked their lungs black, etc. I fear this will be yet another excuse of those who inexplicably need to control and regulate others' behavior.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
We discuss volume limiters because we don't have an objective way to gauge volume.
In our cars we have speedometers. We are aware when we are traveling at dangerous speeds. If we did not have speedometers we might look more seriously for speed limiters for cars.
While some sort of decibel meters in our PDL's might seem like a good idea, some earlier post pointed out that decibels will vary according to the headphones. That makes a decibel reading built into the PLD unreliable.
I don't like the nanny police eit
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Some of us listen to our music loud because we enjoy it. I exercise a lot and I need loud music to distract me from pain as well as road noises.
Being distracted from road noises could lead to a LOT of pain :P
Re: (Score:2)
The point was, with better equipment you get the same sensation of loudness without as much danger.
Re:Turn down the volume (Score:5, Funny)
I exercise a lot and I need loud music to distract me from pain as well as road noises.
Yes...well, in a few years, you won't have to worry about those distracting noises any more.
Re:Turn down the volume (Score:4, Insightful)
Honestly, road noise is probably the last thing I'd rank as a safety feature. I'm sure there is some situation where it would be helpful, but I haven't yet experienced it. I used to drive approximately 1000 miles per week, for several years, and never once found a noise that helped me drive. In my opinion, here are things you can do that will provide several times more benefit.
1. Leave early, and don't be in a rush.
2. Don't drive while tired.
3. Take breaks, and stretch your legs for 10 minutes to refresh your body and mind.
4. Adopt a policy that 'dangerous driving, not speed, kills' and enforce it as such. I've seen more highway accidents that were caused by police than I thought was possible.
Why? In the US, it is not a fun thing to see a cop car pretty much ever. You could be doing 50 in a 55 mph zone and you would instinctively want to press on your brakes when you see a cop on the side of the road, then for a few seconds, you will look at your speedometer, check your mirrors, and generally be on edge.
What weren't you doing for those few seconds?
Paying attention to the road and other cars.
When people become more worried about if there is a police car behind the next bend, and not a deer, that causes significant risk in driving.
Re: (Score:2)
ditto for "Flight of the Valkyries" and "Phantom"
both incidentally make good music to drive to
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
$50-100 on better earphones is better money spent than on one or two of these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearing_aid [wikipedia.org]
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CRANK IT UP!!! (Score:2)
This way, I don't have to stuff earbuds in my ears - I'll just listen to your music from 10 feet away. At that distance, it's safe for MY hering. If you want to go deaf, that's your decision. After all, what's the point of being able to hear if you won;t listen to common sense anyway?
Seriously. Just blast it out. Keep in mind, though, it can have serious health consequences ... and not only to your ears ... if you choose to play crap like Celine Dion or The Village People or Achy Breaky Heart or Techno-
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At that distance, it's safe for MY hering.
It makes a change from a goldfish, I guess.
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That's how I prefer it though. When I walk around in traffic I prefer to be able to hear the other traffic.
I'd be too paranoid if I didn't hear anything like that as anything (car/cycle/scooter) could come up to me too sudden.
Using a player is more about having some background music while walking.
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Maybe you shouldn't use it to cut yourself off from the rest of the world?
Just and suggestion but maybe we don't need background music every where?
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Re:Turn down the volume (Score:4, Interesting)
Put down the music and run without it.
Your real objection is that you can't be alone with yourself for an extended time. You need something to drown that out.
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Turn the volume UP (Score:5, Funny)
How does that help? If you have hearing loss, the obvious solution is to turn UP the volume, so you can hear the music better, of course.
Re: (Score:2)
the second part of the study though said that you want loose-fitting "on-ear" not "around the ear" or "in the ear" so that pressure waves have a chance to escape
Turn down the Goatse. (Score:2)
And to prevent blindness Slashdot implemented a filter. Thanks Slashdot!
Re: (Score:2)
I agree. The only time I have the volume up full blast on my iPod is when it is hooked up to the aux port in my car stereo.
If you are just trying to block out other sound, stop using the default-issued Apple earbuds, and spend about $20-$90 and get yourself a decent pair of noise canceling earphones. I got mine for $30 from Creative Labs, runs for about 20 hours on a single AAA battery, and I can keep the volume at around 1/3 of max and still block out most noise without my eardrums ringing.
Re: (Score:2)
The problem isn't just the ear butds. There's a LOT of ambient noise in offices today, thanks to noisy fans in computers. You don't notice it until there's a power outage, but that constant drone will also cause a loss of audio acuity.
Then there's the problem of turning up the volume so you don't hear the stupid fans.
One of the benefits of
Turn down the server. (Score:2)
"The problem isn't just the ear butds. There's a LOT of ambient noise in offices today, thanks to noisy fans in computers. "
Another reason to use thin clients. Now if we could only look at the hearing loss amongst IT professionals.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
"The problem isn't just the ear buds. There's a LOT of ambient noise in offices today, thanks to noisy fans in computers. "
Another reason to use thin clients. Now if we could only look at the hearing loss amongst IT professionals.
I've switched to bringing my laptop into work [slashdot.org]. Since it runs linux, it does everything I need as a developer, and it's QUIET. I plug my secondary display into it, jack in the eathernet cable, and I'm good for the day (the boss freaked over my "unauthroized" access point ...
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What? (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Solution - lower the max volume (Score:3, Insightful)
Unfortunately, most people play them way to loud so the only technical solution is to limit the output.
However, since many people find louder music *sounds* better unless every device maker does it those who don't may be at a competitive advantage; leading none to do so other than as Apple did as an option; which was probably more about limiting legal liability than anything else.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
However, since many people find louder music *sounds* better
Two words: Loudness War [wikipedia.org].
Get rid of that and you'll not only get better sound, you don't need to crank it up to 11 either.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Solution - lower the max volume (Score:4, Interesting)
Two words: Loudness War [wikipedia.org].
Get rid of that and you'll not only get better sound, you don't need to crank it up to 11 either.
actually, you could not possibly be any more wrong here.
one of the biggest reasons FOR the loudness war is noisy listening environments.
when you have very dynamic music being played, the quieter sections are often lost in the background noise, and all you can hear are the peaks. I have some old CD's with good dynamic range, and they are completely unlistenable on buses and subways because i can't hear anything except for the occasional symbol crash.
music that has been over-compressed is loud all the time, so i CAN hear everything, even the quiet sections, over the background noise.
i am not endorsing the loudness war here, i enjoy music with a wide dynamic range-when i have ideal listen conditions. When I'm on the go, compressed music works better.
Ideally, band would make 2 releases, a CD with full, rich, beautiful dynamic range, and a free mp3 release that's compressed for optimal listening in noisy environments.
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Re:Solution - lower the max volume (Score:5, Interesting)
part of the problem is the use of dynamic range compression. not all music CDs or mp3s have the same dynamic range, so with most rock/pop/hip-hop/etc. the volume only varies between loud and very loud. but with classical or other genres where dynamic range is preserved, you'll have huge variances in volume. this means if you limit the media player volume to suit rock music, then when consumers listen to classical they'll have a hard time hearing the low to medium volume parts of the track. you could implement a feature to automatically normalize all the tracks played (i think the iPod already has this), but i don't know if this will cause a loss of dynamic range and thus negatively affect sound quality.
personally, i don't think PMP makers should artificially limit the speaker output to prevent hearing loss. some people have more sensitive ears than others, and some need the volume to be a little higher, whether due to the music they listen to or their hearing ability. i think a better idea would be to monitor the speaker output and display a warning to the user if the audio level is high enough to cause damage. this will give users the freedom to use their players as they wish while promoting safe listening habits.
SCENIHR Report (Score:5, Informative)
But it also threatens permanent hearing loss for as many as 10 million Europeans who use them, according to a scientific study for the European Union that will be published Monday.
I don't know if this is the report but the Scientific Committee on Emerging and Newly Identified Health Risks (SCENIHR) released a report on this in June [europa.eu] [PDF Warning!]. It's not as long as it looks, about a quarter of the pages are citations to other studies. It looks quite comprehensive. It's important to note that this is not a simple thing to study. The report points out several times that your age and daily exposure and anatomical structure all play an important role in what you can tolerate before experiencing hearing loss.
The abstract from that report:
Exposure to excessive noise is a major cause of hearing disorders worldwide. It is attributed to occupational noise. Besides noise at workplaces, which may contribute to 16% of the disabling hearing loss in adults, loud sounds at leisure times may reach excessive levels for instance in discos and personal music players (PMPs). It is estimated that over two decades the numbers of young people with social noise exposure has tripled (to around 19%) since the early 1980s, whilst occupational noise had decreased. The increase in unit sales of portable audio devices including MP3 has been phenomenal in the EU over the last four years. Estimated units sales ranged between 184-246 million for all portable audio devices and between 124-165 million for MP3 players.
Noise-induced hearing loss is the product of sound level by duration of exposure. In order to counteract noise-induced hearing loss more effectively, a European directive "Noise at Work Regulations" taking effect starting February 2006, established the minimal security level at the equivalent noise exposure limit to 80 dB(A) for an 8 hour working day (or 40 hour working week), assuming that below this level the risk to hearing is negligible. The 8-hour equivalent level (Lequ,8h) is a widely used measure for the risk of hearing damage in industry, and can equally be applied to leisure noise exposures. The free-field equivalent sound pressure levels measured at maximum volume control setting of PMPs range around 80-115 dB(A) across different devices, and differences between different types of ear-phones may modify this level by up to 7-9 dB. The mean time of exposure ranges from below 1 hour to 14 hours a week.
Considering the daily (or weekly) time spent on listening to music through PMPs and typical volume control settings it has been estimated that the average, A-weighted, eight hour equivalent sound exposures levels (referred to "Noise at Work Regulations") from PMPs typically range from 75 to 85 dB(A). Such levels produce minimal risk of hearing impairment for the majority of PMP users. However, approximately 5% - 10% of the listeners are at high risk due to the levels patterns and duration of their listening preferences. The best estimate from the limited data we have available suggests that this maybe between 2.5 and 10m people in EU. Those are the individuals listening to music over 1 hour a day at high volume control setting.
Excessive noise can damage several cell types in the ear and lead to tinnitus, temporary or permanent hearing loss (deafness). Published data indicate that excessive acute exposures to PMPs music at maximal or near maximal output volume can produce temporary and reversible hearing impairment (tinnitus and slight deafness). Major discrepancies exist between the results of the studies on permanent noise-induced hearing loss in PMP users, with both, positive and negative studies published. Tinnitus and hearing fatigue may occur more frequently in teenagers chronically exposed to music, including PMP users, than in non-users.
In addition to auditory effects harmful, lasting and irreversible non-a
Headphones (Score:2)
environment (Score:2)
maybe if the environment around us was quieter, we wouldn't need to turn our {ipod,discman,walkman} up so loud to block it out!
Re: (Score:2)
I couldn't agree more. I look forward to the day when people start taking noise pollution as seriously as they do other types of pollution. At least some people are starting to notice [sfgate.com] the problems with excessive environmental noise.
YES! (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Those are mostly for the EU, I remember when Creative introduced the EU firmware which was mostly identical to the US firmware except it lowered the maximum output. I think there were a few other minor things to handle those languages better, but that was it.
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The problem is not all headphones are created equal. The same volume level on your ipod might sound deafening in out set yet whisper quiet in another.
Certainly you should calibrate the max volume on your device for your own headphones but there's no magic bullet that'll work well for everyone.
I wonder (Score:2)
Should I tag this story noshit or !shit?
Because this is NOT news and I have no sympathy with those people who screw their own ears with music that is way too loud.
Noise Canceling Headphones (Score:2, Interesting)
they let me listen to my music on a train at a dramatically reduced volume.
Re:Noise Canceling Headphones (Score:5, Funny)
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Noise cancellation is good for constant humming sounds like jet engine and railroad generated vibrations but they suck terribly with human voice which is the leading factor [bnrc-cnrc.gc.ca] that breaks concentration. For usage outside of planes and trains, in-ear monitor and closed cans with a good isolation rating [headphonereviews.org] are a much safer bet.
Correct URL (Score:2)
The correct URL of the COPE study [nrc-cnrc.gc.ca] is:
http://irc.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/ie/cope/index_e.html
The problem is gradual increase in volume (Score:5, Insightful)
I've noticed, many times, that I start out with a fairly low volume (maybe 10% or so), and when a good song comes along, I turn it up a bit. However, by the end of the song, I don't really notice the higher volume anymore, and the next time I get a good song, I turn it up a bit more, until the player is at its maximum volume.
If I take the earphones out of my ears, put them back in an hour later, and turn on the player, I'll pull them out of my ears as fast as I can because the music is so horribly loud.
So the solution, I think, is having a "volume boost" button, which boosts the volume for the duration of the current track, and gradually decreases to the normal level during the next track, to avoid stacking up the boosts.
Re: (Score:2)
I find this works both ways. It's definitely noticeably quieter when I turn the volume down a little, but as long as I'm wearing sealed phones that do a good job of blocking the outside noise, within a minute or two, I don't really notice the difference and the music sounds like it's at a perfectly acceptable volume.
Re: (Score:2)
That is exactly my point; it's just that I forget the turn the volume back down at the end of the track, and, if I don't forget, I hate the sudden low volume when I do turn it down. It the player would just gradually turn it down, I probably wouldn't even notice it.
It might even be a bit clever about when to turn it down; most tracks start at a lower volume, so the player could gently reduce the volume as the track starts picking up.
And in other news... (Score:2, Funny)
Education (Score:4, Funny)
"...is there a technical solution to the potential danger?"
Education. Lots of films. Let's get a grant.
Bone conduction anyone? (Score:5, Insightful)
Does bone conduction cause the same problem? If not, Vibe Body Sound Headphones [thinkgeek.com] may be an answer.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Yes. You hear because the hair in your inner ear vibrates. You get hearing loss when those hairs are damaged. Whether that sound comes from your eardrum or through your skull, doesn't matter.
Should be: Nothing to see here, move along (Score:5, Informative)
Seriously, this is a "Ric Romero" report to borrow a Fark term: High volumes for extended times cause hearing loss. News at 11. The only reason why portable players are any more significant in this than anything else is that since you can take them with you all the time, you have the opportunity to do the wrong ting more often.
There is no technical solution, because the maximum output of a player depends on the headphones plugged in to it. Plug in some low impedance IEMs with high efficiency, and you'll find that it may be able to produce SPLs in excess of 120dB no problem. Plug in some low efficiency high impedance professional phones, and you may find it struggles to do even 70dBSPL. Thus you can't set up some sort of magic limit that'll be ok for everything. A limit that would protect your ears with Shure IEMs would be damn near inaudible on Sennheiser 580s.
There are two things you can do to protect yourself:
1) Turn the volume down. Really, it is that simple. Just don't set the things so loud and it isn't a problem. That is ultimately what you have to do.
2) Get phones that isolate better. The reason why some people abuse the volume dial is to try and drown out noise. Don't do that. Block the noise instead. Instead of cheap earbuds, invest in some good IEMs. Yes, it is going to run you $100-300. Deal with it. If you can drop hundreds on a iPod, you can drop hundreds on good phones to go with it. Then take the time to get the right fit for your ears so they create a good seal. That will attenuate sound nearly as much as good earplugs.
With good earphones, you should be able to keep the volume down and still enjoy the music. You keep the volume down, there's no problem.
Loud noise, no matter what the source, is dangerous to your hearing especially over long periods of time. Playing loud music on speakers is just as bad as headphones. Only difference is you can do it all day on headphones and nobody will yell at you. Just turn that shit down to a reasonable level. If you can't because things are too noisy, get better headphones to block the noise.
Block it out, don't drown it out (Score:2)
Really, #2 is the key here. Most cheap headphones are completely open - they do nothing to block out sound. So when your surroundings are noisy, the only option is to jack up the sound.
While IEMs are the best way (there are some reasonable choices for under $100 as well) to block sound, another option is to look for closed headphones - ones that completely cover the ear and don't have any vents or anything to let outside sound in. These are the kinds you see DJs wearing - after all, they need to be able
Re:Should be: Nothing to see here, move along (Score:5, Funny)
But news at 11 is 1 louder than news at 10.
When I was a kid (Score:2)
As if hearing loss was not enough... (Score:2)
...most of the folks that use gadgets are completely oblivious to their surroundings. The other day, one guy who was listening to some kind of rap music, was almost run over by a car as he simply crossed the street against the traffic signal.
In a number of cases, these folks play their music so loud that it even disturbs those around. With this, they put themselves in their own world, make gadget sellers like Steve Jobs rich and place themselves at risk. Ironic!
Gadget makers insulate themselves from the lon
Caution (Score:3, Funny)
I DON'T HAVE AN MP3 PLAYER AND MY HEARING IS JUST FINE!
Although DJing white noise in an industrial club every other weekend probably doesn't help
Signal to Noise (Score:3, Informative)
Some people turn up their music so that it really is loud in their ears. Most people, however, turn it up so damn loud to get the desired signal (music) above the background noise: car traffic, car interiors, subways, crowds, airplane cabins. When the noise floor is already pretty loud (50-80 dB), you have to pump up the volume on that music player ever higher to be able to "hear" it. There's psychoacoustics involved beyond just the overlapping audio sources. Music played that loud, even if it doesn't seem loud (because it's only, say, 10-20 dB above the noise floor) is actually well above the NIOSH limits on what can be a safe prolonged exposure. Result: hearing loss.
The only real solution that will allow you to hear your music (or cellphone, for that matter) without having to crank it up to damage-inducing volumes, is to reduce the noise floor. This can be done pretty easily with passive noise attenuation - padded headphones can give you a few dB of attenuation of low frequencies, and tens of dBs at higher frequencies. Earbuds offer almost no passive noise attenuation, although they could do a little bit if they sealed off the ear canal. Unfortunately, big padded headphones are a lot more conspicuous than little white earbuds, and they didn't come with your iPod, and you can't easily stow them in your pocket.
The other alternative is active noise reduction, like the Bose QuietComfort. You can even find noise-cancelling earbuds, although they tend to not work as well. Unfortunately, ANR doesn't come cheap if you want something that actually works and doesn't ruin your listening experience. Still, digital signal processing with low-power components will probably make this more widely-available in the future....if you can still hear anything by then.
Re: (Score:2)
Good in-ear headphones solve the noise floor problem much better than padded headphones or noise-canceling systems I've tried (including $3k aviation padded/noise-canceling headsets). They may feel strange or uncomfortable to some people, especially when first getting used to them, but they let you listen to music at low volume in almost any situation without worrying about background noise. Their problem is that they do it too well - I don't recommend walking near traffic with this type of speaker.
My com
Noise Reduction Headphones is one Solution (Score:5, Interesting)
>>is there a technical solution to the potential danger?"
I used my mp3 player on a couple of flights. When I into a quiet hotel room and used it again i was shocked at the volume level i had used on the flight. If you are on a plane (train or buss as well), you tend to play it loud to drown out the bakground noise.
As I fly quite a bit, i bought a pair of noise reduction headphones. I went for a $75 pair at first, as I could not see the point of spending $300 on the Bose headphones. The $75 pair were pretty rublish, not much effect at all, so I splashed out another $300 on a pair of Bose noise reduction phones. They may be expensive, but they are worth the money as you can use a much lower volume setting and still hear everything very clearly.
I really recommend them as a way to protect your ears if you travel by plane, train or bus a lot. The luxary of having a cocoon of tranquility on the flight is also very nice to have.
That's Odd... (Score:4, Funny)
ipod earbuds are to blame (Score:2, Insightful)
The earbuds aren't designed to seal the ear canal so people have to run the volume so high on them to get above the noise level.
Apple's only concern is to include the cheapest headphones possible. Unfortunately, the white earbuds are a (pathetic) fashion statement, and they sound good enough that most people keep them.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
And 89 dB means what? (Score:2)
My solution. (Score:2, Interesting)
I found it remarkably easy to "get over" receiving funny looks, and really enjoyed the quality of the sound.
These days the kids play their music on their mobile phone *speakers* for crying out loud. Wha
Simple technical solution (Score:4, Funny)
Make a player that you can only turn up to 9.
Cans should be a fasion statement (Score:3, Interesting)
I reckon people turn up their earbuds so they can hear bass or treble but really anything out of an earbud is going to be tinny - especially if it's coming out of an ipod. I'm pretty sure if they got themselves a decent pair of equipment like those they wouldn't feel like compensating for anything with volume.
Non-issue, really? (Score:3, Insightful)
Just as has already been stated: If you listen to stuff too loud it will damage your hearing...
But is this so much of an issue? You can turn down the volume yourself...
I find that places where you can't affect the volume are a much bigger problem. I always have earplugs when I go to nightclubs these days, I don't want my tinnitus to get any worse. I can't tell the DJ to keep it down, but I also want to go out.
A lot of movies are insanely loud these days, but fortunately there usually are quiet passages to let the ears rest.
For me the worst damage to my ears has actually come from a rather surprising source: My own kids. We even measured 110 dB (in front of the mouth) from one of them when they were little. So what to do when they are crying? I'm not gonna go running for earplugs every time I need to attend to them...
I guess the bottom line is everything taxes our hearing. Wise people protect it to a sensible degree.
Here is the simple solution (Score:5, Informative)
The real problem is to determine whether you are playing the music too loudly for your safety. Here is how to get a good idea of the harm you are doing ...
1. Find something like a watch or other device that makes a very quiet sound. Find a distance where you can just make out the sound.
2. Listen to your music source at your customary level for 15 to 30 minutes or longer if that is your habit.
3. Set up the conditions in (1) above and see if you can still hear the sound. If you can, you are probably not harming your hearing ... If not, then you have a temporary threshold shift and you have already done some small amount of damage to your hearing. The greater the shift, the greater the damage.
4. More likely, if you listen to loud music or listen in inherently noisy places, you will notice the threshold shift in daily life. background noises disappear, which is like 40-50dB SPL, and definitely a problem.
These hearing conservation links explain a lot [okstate.edu] Mp3 players are not the only culprit, driving with wind noise in your left (or your passenger's right) ear, circular saws and construction tools, and other sources of noise are damaging. Music is different in that it can not be blocked but can be controlled.
If you don't protect your hearing from loud sound, sooner or later a notch will start to form in your ear's frequency response curve. The notch will be centered around 4000 Hz, right where high frequencies get really high, and useful too. That notch widens above and below until it impacts 2KHz or even lower. Somewhere along the way, the detectors in the ear will get so damaged that they start detecting sound non-linearly and harmonic and intermodulation distortion arise. Finally, when they get injured some more, they start to fire "all or none" and even moderately loud sounds can be painful. That is called recruitment and is really damaging to hearing and sanity.
I hope this information is useful to readers. I hate to see people lose hearing when it is so unnecessary in most cases.
If you think your hearing is going bad, see an audiologist or ear doctor or both, soon. Most processes can be stopped, and believe me, you will be glad you at least stopped the damage.
I am pushing 60 years old, have used threshold shift changes to remind me to protect my hearing, and still have no noise notch in my good ear. My other ear was damaged by childhood infections and is mostly useless so I guess having only one ear made me more careful.
Technical solution (Score:4, Interesting)
Being a graduate audio systems engineer, one thing that springs to mind is to make speaker drivers in headphones less resonant between 3-5khz. It seems all I hear on bus/tube journeys from people listening to music is the hissing zingy twang of cymbals and guitar distortion.
The fact that this range is around the resonant frequency of the human ear canal means that this (already quite prominent) range of frequencies is amplified further by your body.
If earphones were more linear in their response perhaps people wouldn't damage their hearing as much - or turn up the volume.
Proper equalization would help... (Score:4, Interesting)
The atmosphere and objects in the environment naturally dampen high frequencies. So, if you are listening to a set of stereo speakers 15 feet away, the high frequencies are significantly reduced compared to if you put your ear right next to it. Likewise, putting an earbud in your ear means that there is NO roll-off (dampening) of high frequencies. As a result, your ear is getting a huge dose of high frequency noise. Proper modeling of this and filtering of high frequencies would go a long way to curbing hearing loss. Don't count on people turning down the treble on their own. We've grown accustomed to it, and really the hardware should do it for us.
IEMs / Canalphones (Score:3, Informative)
What you want are "in ear monitors" a.k.a. "canalphones." These are like earplugs with a sound transducer in the center. They attenuate ambient noise by up to -23dB, depending on the model. With that much attenuation, you don't have to turn them up to dangerous levels to hear them, even on the subway. They're designed for musicians so they can hear what they are playing on stage without blasting it over everything else. They coil up into a pouch that fits into your pocket. Plus, they sound very good. Some have reference quality sound and will sound better than any other pair of headphones available unless you listen in a silent room.
Downsides: if you can't handle a plug in your ear then you can't use them, but you can get a custom molded earpiece that makes them very comfortable. Also, the cable can conduct handling noise into your ear, though this isn't a problem with the "pro" versions that hook over your ear or the ones with very thin and pliable cables.
The biggest downside is you cannot hear anything around you with them on, which can make them very dangerous to use in traffic and other situations.
Manufacturers include Etymotics, UltimateEars, Sensaphonics, Shure, and probably a couple others. I've been a big fan of the Etys/Sensaphonics. I recommend the Etymotic ER-6i. Get the ER-4P if you have more money to spend and want better sound. Both of these are high impedence models that work well with an ipod or laptop without a separate high current amplifier.
Once you start using these things you will be spoiled for anything else.