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Another Way the LHC Could Self-Destruct
Posted by
kdawson
on Mon Sep 29, 2008 07:58 PM
from the no-physics-whatsoever dept.
from the no-physics-whatsoever dept.
KentuckyFC writes "Just when you thought it was safe to switch on the LHC (though it won't be for a while yet), another nightmare scenario has emerged that some critics worry could cause the particle accelerator to explode. The culprit this time is not an Earth-swallowing black hole but a 'Bose supernova' in the accelerator's superfluid helium bath. Physicists have been playing with Bose Einstein Condensate (BECs) for over 10 years now. But in 2001, one group discovered that placing them in a powerful magnetic field could cause the attractive forces between atoms to become repulsive. That caused their BEC to explode in a Bose supernova — which they called a 'Bosenova,' a name that fortunately did not catch on. This was little more than a curiosity when only a microscopic blob of cold matter was involved. But superfluid liquid helium is also BEC. And physicists have suddenly remembered that the LHC is swimming in 700,000 liters of the stuff while being zapped by some of the most powerful magnetic fields on the planet. So is the LHC a Bose supernova waiting to go off? Not according to the CERN theory division, which has published its calculations that show the LHC is safe (abstract). They also point out that no other superfluid helium handling facility has mysteriously blown itself to pieces."
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Black Holes From the LHC Could Last For Minutes 672 comments
KentuckyFC writes "There is absolutely, positively, definitely no chance of the LHC destroying the planet (or this way either) when it eventually switches on some time later this year. And yet a few niggling doubts are persuading some scientists to run through their figures again. One potential method of destruction is that the LHC will create tiny black holes that could swallow everything in their path, including the planet. Various scientists have said this will not happen because the black holes would decay before they could do any damage. But physicists who have re-run the calculations now say that the mini black holes produced by the LHC could last for seconds, possibly minutes. Of course, the real question is whether they decay faster than they can grow. The new calculations suggest that the decay mechanism should win over and that the catastrophic growth of a black hole from the LHC 'does not seem possible' (abstract). But shouldn't we require better assurance than that?"
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let me assure you... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:let me assure you... (Score:5, Funny)
You had me going there for a moment, but I just checked the webcams and everything seems fine:
http://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html [cyriak.co.uk]
Parent
Re:let me assure you... (Score:5, Funny)
While the LHC might be perfectly safe, the LHC I'm building in my basement will be extremely volatile.
Dubbed the Large Hatred Collider, its function is to see what happens when enraged 'haters' are collided at speed.
First into the test chamber are a Daily Mail [google.com] reader (who is also a confirmed supporter of the BNP [wikipedia.org]) and an enraged Digg user, who's just discovered that not everybody likes Macintosh compters as much as he does.
It is expected that the two will cancel each other out when they collide. What is unknown is how much energy will be released when this happens. Does anyone on Slashdot have an equation for this?
Parent
This is easy (Score:5, Funny)
Does this mean we can just blame it on the Bosenova [wikipedia.org]?
We're scientists, trust us. (Score:5, Insightful)
True, but, no other SFH2 facility was wielding a 1Tev particle beam like it was a toy light saber, either.
bad physics, bad press (Score:5, Informative)
An expanding BEC isn't anywhere close to a supernova. This would be similar to snapping the valve off of a liquid helium tank. The guys at CERN could blow themselves up with this, but that's about it. They could blow themselves up lots of ways.
It was called a "bosenova" because it shrinks before it expands, not because it's super destructive.
the monkey's are afraid (Score:5, Insightful)
LHC Joke of the Day! (Score:5, Funny)
A: Nothing
Worser (Score:5, Informative)
Could it be worse than melting a 40-ton magnet, which actually happened?
First Law? (Score:5, Insightful)
In this (imaginary) case, the energy in would be that of the magnetic field. Trying to spin this as a possible supernova plays on ignorance, is scaremongering, and is just plain wrong.
When did Slashdot turn into Fox News?
Re:First Law? (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:First Law? (Score:5, Informative)
In addition, magnets have been run at that temperature before.
Parent
Law of conservation of energy (Score:5, Interesting)
I know it's out of vogue, but I'd like to point out that if the LHC were to explode in a fireball whose energy exceeded the energy we put into it, it'd be a good thing for science -- imagine a new energy source we can use to power our further expansion into the universe?
The law of conservation of energy makes for some very unsexy conclusions, like the lhc is probably fairly safe from destroying the universe.
I'm from a small town (Score:5, Funny)
and we used to blow stuff up for fun when I was a kid. Now I work in an MRI research lab.
This sounds like something I need to try tomorrow.
Why is this news? (Score:5, Interesting)
From the summary:
"So is the LHC a Bose supernova waiting to go off? Not according to the CERN theory division, which has published its calculations that show the LHC is safe. They also point out that no other superfluid helium handling facility has mysteriously blown itself to pieces."
So, a "Bosenova explosion" under LHC-like conditions (1) can't happen according to theory, and (2) hasn't happened according to experiment either. Sheesh. I can concoct LHC disaster scenarios that are impossible according to theory and experiment too. Can I get on the Slashdot front page?
Re:More Cassandra warnings... (Score:5, Insightful)
When testing a car for the first time, the worst that could happen is the tester of the car dies.
It is very easy to find one person who believes the science - and therefor is willing to test the car.
We should not expect the entire planet to be happy to "test" the LHC and its physics. We know they are safe...and don't mind testing. But some people aren't, and you can't really complain about that.
Oh and the bombs where made to end WWII, so there was obviously a very imminent need for the nuke...unlike the LHC physics...which are immensely interesting, but not really important for everyone.
Parent
Re:More Cassandra warnings... (Score:5, Funny)
The problem is that the LHC has caused the production of strange moron particles, which seem to bump into normal people and turn them into more strange morons. The collective outgassing of stupidity causes a supernova brain implosion.
Parent
Cassandra's predictions were right (Score:5, Informative)
That's the point of the myth: Apollo granted her the gift of prophesy, then cursed her by making it so nobody would ever believe her predictions.
Parent
Re:More Cassandra warnings... (Score:5, Insightful)
oh and BTW, the windshield is necessary to allow a human driver to continue breathing at today's highway speeds. it's very hard to properly exhale at 50-60 mph.
This is getting way OT, but I thought a windshield was also to protect my face from flying objects (stones, bugs, etc.). Considering my windshield just got chipped by a stone the other day, I'd rather not have to endure something like that hitting me in the eye.
Parent
Re:More Cassandra warnings... (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:More Cassandra warnings... (Score:5, Informative)
Uh huh. And the various (admittedly foolish) motorcycle drivers I see riding on their bikes at 80mph without helmets are just holding their breath?
Parent
Re:Phase change (Score:5, Funny)
Or it could split the planet wide open if the uninformed hyperbole gets to hot and detonates.
Parent
Re:Phase change (Score:5, Informative)
also, lolwtfsig
Parent
Re:Phase change (Score:5, Insightful)
If you have a cup of super-cooled water, and tickle it so that it suddenly freezes, it's going to release a lot more energy that you used to trigger it. I don't understand the math here, but I think that (even though a BEC is a "cooler" phase than liquid) transition from a BEC to a liquid releases energy. Perhaps liquid helium just takes up more space than superfluid helium, so a rapid transition would be bad? In any case, rapid state changes in a material can release or consume more energy than is used to trigger the state change.
Parent
Re:That would be bad (Score:5, Funny)
Parent