LHC Offline Until April 2009 (Or Longer) 298
rufey writes "The recent problems at the Large Hadron Collider will now keep it idle until spring 2009. The official press release is here. The LHC went offline due to a suspected failure in a superconducting connection, which overheated and caused around 100 of the LHC's super-cooled magnets to heat up by as much as 100 degrees. This resulted in the accidental release of a ton of liquid helium. The process required to repair the failed superconducting connection involves weeks of warming up the affected area from -456 degrees Fahrenheit to room temperature, and then several more weeks to cool it back down after the repair is made. The total amount of time to do this will spill over into CERN's scheduled winter maintenance/shutdown period, which is partly done to save money on electricity during the period of peak demand."
I can wait (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I can wait (Score:5, Funny)
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But don't worry, they already killed the six multitentacular aliens/demons that managed to get through before they could shut the LHC down.
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Yeah I was wondering. Does it open the gates to the Dungeon Dimensions to let the creatures that live there in?
Re:I can wait (Score:4, Informative)
Yeah I was wondering. Does it open the gates to the Dungeon Dimensions to let the creatures that live there in?
Let's just say you'd better have your Young Men's Reformed-Cultists-of-the-Ichor-God Bel-Shamharoth Association dues paid up.
Re:I can wait (Score:5, Funny)
Don't worry, there will be another delay, then another, then another, until it goes live in 2012.
They will trun it back the day after the CUBS win (Score:3, Funny)
They will trun it back the day after the CUBS win it all.
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They will trun it back the day after the CUBS win it all.
Against Miami?
Yeah. Who would've thought? 100 to 1 shot! I wish I could go back to the beginning of the season, put some money on the Cubs.
Re:They will trun it back the day after the CUBS w (Score:5, Funny)
Actually, the world ended when the Red Sox won it all, it's just that nobody noticed.
Re:They will trun it back the day after the CUBS w (Score:5, Funny)
Re:They will trun it back the day after the CUBS w (Score:5, Informative)
For those of you who do not know, that is a Mark Twain quote (presumed to be, anyhow)
"When the end of the world comes, I want to be in Cincinnati because it's always twenty years behind the times."
Re:They will trun it back the day after the CUBS w (Score:5, Funny)
I am dissappointed. We are on slashdot. Please say instead
"The results will be evalutaed using GNU/Hurd"
or "The operators could finish a round of DNF in the breaks" or "a microsoft linux running on phantom game consoles is used as a thin client operating system" etc...
NO Sports, please!
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Nah, the world can't end, haven't you ever heard of the quantum suicide thought experiment? Clearly, this delay is just the first of many, eventually leading to the cancelation of the project. It's simply the most statistically likely thing that could happen that would avert the disaster.
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Because if we were in one of the unlucky universes we wouldn't be having this conversation, that's what the thought experiment is. The idea goes like this, there are an infinate number of universes so anything that could even remotely happen will happen in one of them. Since you will only be aware of a universe if you are in it to experience it, you (as in yourself) will never die.
Lets say I hook a nuclear bomb up to a detector that detects whether a single radioactive atom has decayed yet. After each ha
Re:I can wait (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I can wait (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I can wait (Score:4, Funny)
You must not be an American. I was hoping for total annihilation rather than having to live through the election.
As a consolation prize, at least we get to watch the Palin / Biden debate. That's going to be a fun program of sure brain surgery, for sure.
Re:I can wait (Score:5, Funny)
MODERATOR: "Senator Biden, what qualifies you to be Vice President?"
BIDEN: [answer redacted due to copyrights held by the estate of Neil Kinnock and the risk of carpal tunnel syndrome]
MODERATOR: "Yes, yes. And you, Governor Pain, what qualifies you?"
PALIN: "Nothing."[long pause] "But I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night!"
Exeunt, pursued by a bear. With hair plugs and wearing lipstick.
Which reminds me, I need to make sure that my wet bar is fully stocked.
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You kidding? I'm having a full-out PARTY for that debate. Hot dogs, wings, and beer all around. I expect it to be more entertaining than the combined entertainment value of the last year of MTV.
Games to play: Write down your favorite dumb Palin quote of the night, toss in the hat, see which gets the most votes!
Biden roulette! Hand out poker chips, put your bets down on "Yes/No" or "Gong" for each answer.
Re:I can wait (Score:4, Funny)
Time travelers keep breaking it... (Score:2)
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Hmmmmmm (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Hmmmmmm (Score:5, Funny)
It looks like you're trying to repair a superconductor coolant loop. Would you like to:
(a) vent all helium
(b) order another 30 ton transformer
(c) damn the torpedoes, lets make some black holes.
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Damn (Score:4, Funny)
Now I'll have to wait even longer to welcome our new demonic overlords who were supposed to come out of the stargate that the LHC will create.
Re:Damn (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Damn (Score:5, Funny)
Now I'll have to wait even longer to welcome our new demonic overlords who were supposed to come out of the stargate that the LHC will create.
Well, it looks like the best estimates will have the LHC running full collisions will be sometime in December, 2012.
Hey wait a minute!
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But it's buried.
The wormholes can't establish a connection if a large object is inside the ring.
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They are already here, and in positions of power around the world. Their reinforcements, however, will be late.
So this is our chance! W00t! Get them!
Of course, nuking them from orbit is the only way to be sure. And we thought the real estate market was bad now...
Handyman Special! Nice view, very low rads... Guaranteed to be the last home you ever buy!
Re:Not Really (Score:4, Funny)
Naw, its too late.
Turns out McCain is Kang and Obama is Kodos.
You know its useless to vote for a third candidate.
-456 degrees? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:-456 degrees? (Score:5, Informative)
I thought the absolute zero was at -273...ah, damn americans!
I thought absolute zero was at 0...
ah, damn humans.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
it must be the only country still using that system, why oh why? does it make everything sound bigger or something??
since this is a european project the writers of this must have went out of their way to convert to Fahrenheit and dumben down the subject matter
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since this is a european project the writers of this must have went out of their way to convert to Fahrenheit and dumben down the subject matter
While I agree it's asinine that we still use things like English units (which even the English don't use anymore, for fuck's sake), how does doing a unit conversion "dumben down" the subject matter? And you said "dumben" on purpose, right?
Re:-456 degrees? (Score:4, Funny)
Okay folks lets get it straight. The US isn't the only one that still doesn't use the metric system for everything.
http://www.toyota.co.uk/cgi-bin/toyota/bv/generic_editorial.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0174202331.1222276069@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccdadeffffejeicfngcfkmdfkidfgh.0&deepLink=YA3_Specification_new&nodiv=TRUE&fullwidth=TRUE&edname=specSheet_YA3&carModel=Yaris&imgName=bv/CarChapter/YA3/Imagery/YA3_spec.jpg&zone=Zone%20YARIS [toyota.co.uk]
Here is a link to a Japanese car company selling a car in the UK.
They give the fuel economy in MPG as well as KM per liter.
Drives me crazy when I get UK motor cycle mag. The give the fuel economy in MPG and the fuel tank size in Liters!
Re:-456 degrees? (Score:5, Insightful)
Drives me crazy when I get UK motor cycle mag. The give the fuel economy in MPG and the fuel tank size in Liters!
Not only that, but British Gallons and U.S. gallons are different [wikipedia.org]!
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Yep that is why the same car with the same engine gets better mileage in the EU than the US. Often they really don't.
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Result
The parent isn't informative or funny in any sense.
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Just because YOU didn't get the joke doesn't make it not funny.
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which overheated and caused around 100 of the LHC's super-cooled magnets to heat up by as much as 100 degrees. This resulted in the accidental release of a ton of liquid helium
More importantly is the exact science and measurements...
~100 were heated up over 100 degrees (K/F/C?), so were these 100 overheated? How about that 'a ton' of liquid helium, is that like.... a lot, or was it exactly 2,000 pounds?
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
A ton is exactly 2240 lbs. Otherwise it wouldn't be a round number of hundredweights (or stones) and that would just be silly.
Unless it's a metric ton, which is spelt "tonne", and is exactly 2204 and a bit lbs. Simple, no?
Being scientists, the quantity in this instance was probably more or less a shedload.
Re:-456 degrees? (Score:4, Funny)
1 tonne = 1000kg.
Makes no sense, and that pisses me off. I much prefer my units being eighths of a unit made up of one twelfth of a unit made up of a third of a unit made up of 1/1760th of the largest practical unit.
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Fortunately, they started out at such a low temperature that the components did not become KFC as a result.
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Okay. I am from the US.
Absolute zero is 0K!
Stupid submitter and editor.
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Brrrrr... but not quite absolute brrr.
What's required to clean up such a spill? Wouldn't that temperature make everything that approaches it become very brittle? Or very solid?
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-456 Fahrenheit is (almost) equal to 2 Kelvin.
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Doesn't everybody use Rankine?
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Didn't they kinda predict this? (Score:2)
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Not the end of the world (Score:2)
This breakdown is probably just the beginning of a series of breakdowns. A year from now everyone will be complaining about the huge price tag on this thing that has never been 100% operational.
Re:Not the end of the world (Score:5, Funny)
A year from now everyone will be complaining about the huge price tag on this thing that has never been 100% operational.
It's the Windows Vista of supercolliders.
Re:Not the end of the world (Score:5, Funny)
You're being unfair, but they have a plan.
They're going to rename it the Large Mojave Collider and prove that its just bad press that is making them look bad.
The should contact... (Score:2)
Now what do I do? (Score:5, Funny)
This is unacceptable. I demand they destroy the world now.
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Re:Now what do I do? (Score:5, Funny)
...spent all my money...secure in the knowledge that the world would come to an end this October
Yeah, you and all the banks!
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Don't worry... what they didn't report was the cause of the leak -- and why no matter how much caulk they put over it the hole just won't go away. In fact, it seems to grow with every attempt to seal it.
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This reminds me of a friend of mine, who on his deathbed told me:
All my life, I spent 90% of my money on hookers and alcohol.. and I wasted the other 10%.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Given the recent stock crisis, that was probably the best thing you could have done with your money anyway.
Projected start date (Score:2, Funny)
Party time (Score:4, Informative)
I believe with all the problems they're having, the actual date when the high-energy collisions begin will be December 2012 [wikipedia.org].
That actually is appropriate, though probably not in the sense that P means. The Mesoamerican calandar that 'ends' in 2012 is just the end of a chunk of a calendar, to be followed by another chunk, and another, etc. It is like New Year's Eve for us; the end of a cycle and an excuse to party. 2012 is just an excuse to party, Mayan style, ripping the hearts out of human sacrifices or however they celebrate it.
When the first collisions happen, that will be grounds for partying also.
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A ton? (Score:2)
Do they actually mean there was a metric ton of Liquid Helium released, or just a lot? I mean, any liquid helium spilled, even jus a measly ounce, to me seems like a big deal considering how expensive and, well, cold it is. A whole ton? Seriously, is this an actual figure or is it just an exageration? Or is it even an understatement? I really have no idea.
Re:A ton? (Score:5, Informative)
The LHC cooling circuit has something like 400 tons of helium in it.
One ton missing sounds reasonable.
The cold doesnt matter, btw. Liquid helium has a really low heat capacity and evaporation enthalpy. A dewar full of liquid nitrogen spilled will do much more damage than 10 times the amount of helium, even if the helium temperature is lower.
And helium is not THAT expensive. At least compared to the other costs.
A physicists analogy is that a LN2 costs as much as cheap beer, while L He as much as good whiskey, per volume... (I once used 2000l of liquid helium in a single week because of a faulty magnet that couldnt be replaced during beamtime. Although that was of course recaptured. I hope they have options to do that in the LHC cave, too, even though the initial containment was breached)
Coolant leak? (Score:2)
Or something more sinister? Did they make a blackhole? Are they desperately trying to contain it before it destroys the earth?
Although really, if my ST:NG watching is any indication, coolant leaks are bad mojo in and of themselves. And that would explain why I was told to put on a red shirt this morning.
Ouch (Score:5, Funny)
I understand things were going well - then there was this 'big bang'....
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"Event-horizons occur from time to time that temporarily stop operations, for shorter or longer periods, especially during the early phases," said Cern physicist Peter Limon ; )
Save energy ? what the hell ? (Score:3, Funny)
if there is anything that world shouldnt be saving energy, if there is anything that needs to be subsidized by governments, this is it.
because, this is IT. if the god particle is found, the smallest block of EXISTENCE will be found.
im appalled how EU is not being of sufficient assistance in this. unbelievable.
Re:Save energy ? what the hell ? (Score:5, Informative)
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Back-of-the-envelope costs (Score:4, Informative)
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Non-renewable? Hogwash. We already have the technology to create He. It's just that it takes a lot of energy and we have to do it 1 atom at a time. Of course, that's probably only on a par with trying to recover it from the atmosphere...
Read the article (Score:5, Funny)
Ton of Helium (Score:3, Funny)
[I'm being facetious about the weights, but in terms of cost, losing a ton of helium is freakin' expensive]
We know. You can tell from the LHC cyro status. (Score:5, Informative)
Look at the LHC cyro status for sector 3-4 [web.cern.ch]. Average magnet temperature is now at 70K, and slowly creeping up to room temperature. Notice the expanded vertical scale on the graph. Compare with the other sectors, holding with liquid helium at 1.9K.
Warmup is slow. Cooldown is slower. Several kilometers of pipe and a hundred or so magnets are involved.
It's not that bad, though. It looks like they won't have to take magnets out of the tunnel for rewinding. That's a huge job. This is just a slow one.
They can warm up or chill down sector 3-4 during the shutdown period. The rest of the system would normally be cooled during shutdown anyway.
The future is now! (Score:2, Funny)
I, for one, welcome the Higgs bosons from the future that successfully interfere with the LHC in the present!
-450who? (Score:5, Insightful)
Please. If it's science, give us our 'degrees C'.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
The measurement should have been in Kelvin, anyway. Perhaps the author isn't a science guy.
Spare magnets (Score:2)
Shouldn't take THAT long (Score:2, Funny)
To upgrade to XP.
Turns out one of the new particles forgot to get certified Vista-ready.
Not naming any names here (I'm looking at you muon-antineutrino!)
LHC Joke of the Day (Score:5, Funny)
A: What's the matter?
deja vu (Score:2)
Several weeks to warm up and cool down? (Score:2, Insightful)
I hope the repairmen don't forget their gloves or screwdrivers in there.
More seriously: the LHC wasn't designed with repairability/serviceability in mind, it seems. Before you mod me down: the proof is before our eyes!
Re:Several weeks to warm up and cool down? (Score:4, Insightful)
You're not familiar with large scale industrial operations. Even a large boiler must be disabled for a week or so before reaching room temperature. You're not going to be able to bring that much material to such a low temperature quickly.
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Say something meaningful--the magnets were about 2 degrees Kelvin.
you mean 2 Kelvin (since it is an absolute scale)
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Quit complaining about Fahrenheit, we could have said 2.7 Rankine.
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There's a guy running back and forth down the tunnel with a bucket of warm water...
No (Score:2)
That does not suck. But the alternative...
Ok, I've made a LHC black hole joke. I couldn't resist... Shame on me :(
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Really? Thanks for the info. Now I know where I can get tons of canned food, bottles of fresh water and a little boat for just the cost of a 45 ACP round.
Seriously, ammo is the best investment of your survivalist dollar.
Re:Your telling me maintenance people cannot work (Score:5, Interesting)
But seriously, what about space suits? They allow people to survive in absolute 0. Why can't they be used?
Re:Your telling me maintenance people cannot work (Score:5, Informative)
Spacesuits operate in vacuum, which means there are almost no no particles around, so the word temperature does not make much sense there. Vacuum is an excellent insulator, so it is easy to keep them warm. It is a myth that you instantly freeze when exposed to the vacuum of space.
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What if it's a really hot vacuum?