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In Leaked Email, NASA Chief Vents On Shuttle Program's End
Posted by
timothy
on Mon Sep 08, 2008 01:07 AM
from the just-jealous-of-garriot dept.
from the just-jealous-of-garriot dept.
jerryasher writes "In a leaked memo, NASA Administrator Mike Griffin discusses 'the jihad' to prematurely terminate the Shuttle and what that means for the International Space Station. One implication: there may come a long interval when only our Russian Allies are aboard the Space Station. Add that bit of irony to your new cold war kit and then wonder why Griffin discusses why we wouldn't sabotage the Space Station, and how and why the memo got leaked in the first place."
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SpaceX Gets Operational License For Cape Canaveral 133 comments
FiggyOO writes "For those of you who witnessed the launch of SpaceX's Falcon 1 rocket, launch 3, you will be glad to hear that SpaceX has received a license to launch from space complex 40 (SLC-40) at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station on the Florida coast. This Launch complex is just south of launch pads 39A and 39B which have been used to launch the space shuttles, and will continue in that role for a few more years. This launch complex will enable SpaceX to launch the much-anticipated Falcon 9 rocket, which will eventually carry the Dragon capsule. In doing so, SpaceX hopes to fill the void between the end of the shuttle program and the coming of the Constellation. They have already begun moving into the launch complex, including moving a 125,000 gallon liquid oxygen tank on the back of a semi." We've been following Elon Musk's SpaceX for years.
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And he's absolutely right (Score:5, Insightful)
With Putin doing his best Stalin imitation lately, it's moronic to trust the Russians to be a reliable stopgap until our new rockets and spacecraft are ready. We need to simply accept the fact that we'll be needing the Shuttle for a little while longer, and budget appropriately.
Re:And he's absolutely right (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:And he's absolutely right (Score:5, Interesting)
That would be akin to pumping money into the Wright Brothers in the hopes of getting the 747 faster. The problem isn't that SpaceX lacks cash, the problem is that they aren't anywhere near a booster to replace the Soyuz let alone a capsule to replace the Soyuz. (Yes, the Russians call the booster 'Soyuz' and the capsule 'Soyuz'.)
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Re:And he's absolutely right (Score:5, Funny)
Yes, the Russians call the booster 'Soyuz' and the capsule 'Soyuz'.
Soyuz say.
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Re:And he's absolutely right (Score:5, Interesting)
We're talking about the ISS not ICBMs, please refrain from randomly changing the subject unless your desire is to amuse me with your incompetence. You know that floating pierce of crap that was mainly created to let multiple nations work together and has been heavily outsourced to Russia already?
The ISS was by design a joint project and otherwise idiotic design decisions were made for that reason. The Russians have provided support not only as part of the normal design but also during times when the shuttle fleet was grounded. The Russians also own part of the station and will own even more of it once it's finished (the European and Japanese likewise own other parts of the station).
If they US didn't want to outsource the ISS then they shouldn't have made it a joint project.
Parent
Re:And he's absolutely right (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, what Russia did is small potatoes compared to what America's foreign policy has been for quite some time. They have attacked a country without provocation and have been occupying it for the past 5 years.
I think if the US set the example returning to a non-interventionist foreign policy and eliminating all barriers to trade it would export democracy and freedom much more effectively than the armed forces and the CIA ever did.
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Premature my ass (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, it's YOUR ass... (Score:5, Insightful)
Nevertheless, you don't throw away the only tool you have, even if it is expensive and unwieldly. Granted, we should have had a replacement for the shuttle a long time ago. But we don't, so that means we fly the shuttle until we do!!!
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Stephen Metschan said it best (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/1188/1 [thespacereview.com]
Time is short. Senior NASA management is committed to beginning the destruction of the tooling used to construct the Space Shuttle's External Tank as early as next month. This destruction is completely unnecessary to support the current Ares 1 production plan because the floor space NASA plans to use is not occupied by the External Tank tooling. The only apparent objective of beginning the destruction of this $12-billion national asset next month, used by both the Space Shuttle and Jupiter Launch System, is to maliciously eliminate any competition to the current plan. In an attempt to put a halt to this unnecessary destruction of government property, the Senate version of 2009 NASA authorization bill sought to make this imminent action of the NASA administrator explicitly illegal. Specifically, the Senate provision directed the NASA administrator "to terminate or suspend any activity of the Agency that, if continued, would preclude the continued safe and effective flight of the Space Shuttle Orbiter after fiscal year 2010." Unfortunately, this provision, that cost us nothing to include yet wisely keeps our options open, was removed from the Senate-House conference bill just before the summer recess.
Re:Source of leak? (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Source of leak? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Source of leak? (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, it's like defending free speech and having to stick up for Nazis and pedophiles. It's still a worthy cause in the abstract, but the specifics can take some of the wind out of your sails.
It shouldn't. Nobody wants to censor talk about mom and apple pie. The right of free speech only matters when it comes down to speech that somebody finds offensive. If you aren't willing to defend the freedom to speak about stuff you find offensive, then you didn't ever really believe in free speech to begin with.
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Re:Source of leak? (Score:5, Insightful)
In a statement issued after the Orlando Sentinel posted Griffin's e-mail, the space agency administrator stressed that the memo alone lacked the appropriate context.
"The leaked internal email fails to provide the contextual framework for my remarks, and my support for the Administration's policies," Griffin said the NASA statement. "Administration policy is to retire the shuttle in 2010 and purchase crew transport from Russia until Ares and Orion are available."
This basically validates the accuracy of the article's source material (the email), although it does insist that relying on the information in the email alone would not respect the context it was written in. In short, you should have RTFA (which contains a lot more information than the original email), and your comment is idiotic and baseless.
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Re:My problem with the article (Score:5, Informative)
You heard wrong. First of all, a 12 megapixel camera has trouble picking up fingerprints here on earth, unless the surface and lighting are conducive. Second, with a 1-meter aperture, the THEORETICAL limit for resolution would be picking up something 6 inches in diameter. With a 2.4 meter aperture (about the limit for optics going into space. It's the size of the Hubble, in case you were wondering), the (again, theoretical) limit of resolution that could be achieved is 3 inches in diameter.
Both of those numbers are, again, entirely theoretical. That's assuming you weren't looking through ~70 miles of turbulent, dusty atmosphere.
So unless the US Government beat the laws of electromagnetic diffraction and didn't tell anybody...
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Re:Source of leak? (Score:5, Insightful)
Only if the parties maligned actually deny the claims made by those sources.
This is a double edged sword. On the one hand, anonymous sources can help uncover serious abuses, i.e. Watergate. On the other, journalists can and do simply make stuff up and attribute it to these "sources". I recall the case of one American journalist, whose name(ironically) escapes me at the moment, who was caught extorting his victim. He was essentially threatening to publish stories that while they would be damaging to the victim, would not create any legal "liability" for his publication. I'm sure anonymous sources are abused in this way.
Personally, I think that given the low standing of journalism as a profession, anonymous sources are at this time completely without credibility. Nowadays, the default assumption that must be made about any journalist and news story is that they are a spin doctor spinning a story the way their employer pays them to. Under such high G-forces, the delicate anonymous sources collapse under their own weight.
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No. If it did... (Score:5, Insightful)
Anonymous sources must not only be paid attention to, they must be protected in a Democratic society. Thus the laws protecting whistle blowers, and so on.
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Re:So let's stop faffing around (Score:5, Funny)
And get something new and awesomer in the skies to replace it.
Something that could get people going wow again would be nice.
I would also like a pony.
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Re:So let's stop faffing around (Score:5, Insightful)
"And get something new and awesomer in the skies to replace it.
Something that could get people going wow again would be nice."
Not going to happen. Not now. Not for another 30 years or more.
Afghanistan
Iraq.
Do I dare look at the expenses incurred for the latter? No. There is nothing I can do about it, and all it will do is fill me with rage.
And now, due to criminal lack of oversight (because regulation is BAD, Right?!),
THIS: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7602992.stm [bbc.co.uk]
This administration has fucked us all for sure. Forget the Shuttle. Forget the ISS. Forget the Moon. Forget Mars. Forget space exploration. Forget inspiring kids to become engineers and scientists.
Forget dreaming at all, for we can no longer afford it. Our future has been pissed away in 8 years.
Welcome to total, complete, utter incompetent management by the Shrub and his apparatchiks.
The first words spoken by the next President after being sworn in this January and looking at the real numbers: "What the fuck is this shit?"
--
BMO
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Re:So let's stop faffing around (Score:5, Interesting)
"Why do it now? Why not let the next administration decide?"
Because the problem is so large, and such an emergency, that it /must/ be dealt with right now. Word is that that without the bailout, we had two weeks before the shit hit the fan.
It's true what's been said, that Fannie and Freddie were "too big to fail." Failure without a buyout would have caused...utter chaos - literally runs on the banks not seen since 1929.
And I'm not kidding about criminal lack of oversight. We already know the books were cooked over there to make things look rosier than they were.
The CEOs of Fannie and Freddie lost their jobs because of that. BFD. They probably deserve jail time, but I won't hold my breath.
I lived through the RISDIC crisis, and this is the same stuff, just writ REALLY LARGE. 9 percent of all home loans, nationally, in arrears or in default? What? Here in Rhode Island, it's 32 percent. Apparently that's for real, and this stuff has just started. Trust me, this has just started.
And we still want to go to Mars. Har. Unlikely.
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BMO
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Re:So let's stop faffing around (Score:5, Insightful)
"It is to try to help avoid a financial market crash and the economy from plunging farther and more quickly into the shitter."
Oh, I know. I know too well. We had no choice.
Read my previous message.
This is the result of out-and-out fraud. However, while I live in a country where we have the highest per capita rate of imprisonment, the people responsible will never see the inside of a cell. Not even for a second. Trust me on this. We jail potsmokers instead.
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BMO
Parent
Re:So let's stop faffing around (Score:5, Interesting)
"Somehow, I suppose the occupation of Iraq must be profitable after all, otherwise it would only be logical to withdraw troops from there. Same for Afghanistan."
We need a -1 Naive tag.
You need to read up on the Project for a New American Century.
http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqletter1998.htm [newamericancentury.org]
Please note the date.
Please note who the members of PNAC are and who signed the Mission Statement.
http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm [newamericancentury.org]
Let me know when you finish screaming.
--
BMO
Parent
Deregulation caused the crisis. (Score:5, Insightful)
When the banks wrote the mortgages and held them, they were less likely to give money to unqualified buyers. When they were allowed to repackage the debt and sell it to other corporations, to no one's surprise, everyone got greedy and started trading the debt.
I like certain libertarians ideals, but the fact is that regulation is to industry what police are to neighborhoods. If you take a cop off a beat, crime will go up. If you take your eyes off corporate shenanigans, they will go up. This has been obvious from the days of Enron. What we need is reasonable regulation with national standards, state enforcement, and some new laws against the revolving door between business and government. There should be a separation of business and state, for the sake of both.
Of course, you can always argue that the fact that there was regulation that was removed led to the crisis. But you'd be wrong.
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Re:Deregulation caused the crisis. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Deregulation caused the crisis. (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course, you can always argue that the fact that there was regulation that was removed led to the crisis. But you'd be wrong.
Or you could argue that the problem is the return of regulation just in time to socialize the losses. The money that was lost due to piss-poor loan underwriting ought to come from those who took the risk of investing in piss-poor underwriting.
Instead, just in the nick of time, our tax dollars jump in to save the day for the people who unwisely chose to invest in piss-poor underwriting.
This whole idea of "too large to let fail" is the unholy love-child of pro-business 'conservatives' and pro-command-and-control 'liberals.' Its like they took the worst characteristics of each group and decide that those were the ideals by which to run our current government.
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Re:So let's stop faffing around (Score:5, Informative)
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