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Information Requested for NASA-Based MMORPG
Posted by
Soulskill
on Fri Jan 18, 2008 01:47 AM
from the no-games-are-developed-in-a-vacuum dept.
from the no-games-are-developed-in-a-vacuum dept.
Teancum writes "By now, most people are aware of the U.S. Army's video game, America's Army. It turns out that NASA has submitted a Request for Information for what would be a NASA-themed MMORPG of its own. The deadline for the proposals is February 15th. NASA's plans focus on education. 'A NASA-based MMO built on a game engine that includes powerful physics capabilities could support accurate in-game experimentation and research. It should simulate real NASA engineering and science missions in a medium that is comfortable and familiar to the majority of students in the United States today.' This certainly doesn't deserve to get thrown onto the traditional dust heap of educational proposals for a half-baked game that nobody will actually play."
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dory writes "Newsreview has up a story from October on America's Army and the way the military is using it. The piece discusses a clan, the Army's research mentality and implementations, as well as some MRI studies on gamers." From the article: "The Army has been collecting player information in a vast relational database system called "Andromeda," Wardynski said, which recruiters will be able to use to look up a player's statistics if one of them shows up in a recruiting office. A version of America's Army now in development will take that a step further, allowing players to create a "persistent" online alter-ego, one that steadily progresses through the virtual ranks by taking additional training or specialized missions, generating valuable data along the way."
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zerg rush kekekeke (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re:zerg rush kekekeke (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
No Lisa Nowak jokes yet? (Score:3, Funny)
or maybe green (Score:2, Funny)
Red-shift is the new purple.
Oh good! (Score:2)
Re:Oh good! (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Can I buy a... (Score:2)
Meanwhile, NASA launches still make me yawn (Score:5, Interesting)
How realistic? (Score:5, Insightful)
Anyway, the basic of what NASA is known for is space and rocketry missions. So for STEM (Science/Tech/Eng/Math), this covers most of this. I do not know how they will cover engineering - designing rocket engines? Heat shield tests? Vehicle-debris impact simulation?? The incredible-machine-like workshops?
Math is the most hopeless area to try to stimulate. Since they want to gear this towards regular school (high school and younger) students, not PhD math students, all they can hope for is arithmetic. Sure, they can have "difficult problems" like "solve linear system of equations", but that is not what higher level math is about. Math is about logic and nothing else. Not arithmetic.
I wish them luck. They should really think *hard* about what they want from something like this. The American Army (AA) game is a relatively simple shooter with emphasis on some "formal" training and more realistic combat (which is less fun, BTW). The NASA game may be ok only if it targets people already interested in science and allows these people to interact with each other. If the game is dumbed down to the "regular student" level, they'll end up with no one there. The geeks will think the game sucks as it provides not enough challenge and the others will think it is just some stupid "educational" game.
NASA, design it for geeks first please, and maybe you'll get what you want in the end.
Re:How realistic? (Score:5, Insightful)
If you think about it, most Americans don't really understand space science. They don't understand the basic theory, they don't understand the pragmatic limitations, and (perhaps most importantly) they don't necessarily see the long-term benefits of advanced scientific research. Maybe setting up the game as more of a high-level Sim type game would work.
So you want a framework for a game? How about a Space Race. Players form guild-like Research Groups, all vying for achievements. The Groups would be striving for various achievements, like building a space telescope, landing a person on the Moon, mapping out the surface of Saturn, etc. To succeed in any of these tasks requires a lot of research (which takes in-game time and money), but you are rewarded in several ways. First off, you gain Prestige when you do something headline-worthy, especially if you're the first Group to manage it, but the Prestige is only instrumental - it earns you more funds and qualified manpower (because kids who saw your Moon Landing grow up and study astronomy), which you re-invest into new research.
The real goal of the game, though, is unlocking Knowledge, which you do in all sorts of ways. Some achievements (Hubble) might give you not very much Prestige, but they'll continue to accrue Knowledge over time. Others (space shuttle stuff) might give you a good boost in Prestige when your Group needs it, but aren't a great investment long-term because they don't give as much Knowledge. And as the Knowledge rolls in, players start to see the consequences. Ten game-years after your telescope launch, for example, you might get a note about how medical researchers have adopted your optics research to revolutionize heart surgery (based on a true story, I think).
I think it could definitely work as a high-level game like this; the question is how in-depth you can get. Would it make sense to have players in the Group actually playing as Aerospace Engineers, Electronics Experts, Optics Researchers, Physicists, etc.? Maybe they could manage it through a sort of abstracted skill-based minigame system: for example, the Physicist plays his minigame for as long as he wants, racking up Physics Research points (which the Group leader is responsible for funneling into the various projects the Group is running) but costing his Group money by the minute. That way, Groups could have managed budgets and so on without forcing players to play a certain number of hours every day. (The hot-shot "Physicist" players would be the ones who really excel at that minigame, so they have the best ratio of Research earned to time played.)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
You would have to contend with a budget, payload
Re:How realistic? (Score:5, Insightful)
Your points are absolutely valid in your context, but I think we are dangerously placing the cart before our collective ass.
Just like the military, NASA has experienced declining general interest. This is not a SETI-esque venture to solve the great mysteries of space travel, nor is it some kind of "Last Starfighter" quest for an Alex Rogan [imdb.com]. It is a valid, overdue tossing of kerosene onto a thirsty and faltering flame; a genuine attempt to generate interest among young people regarding space exploration, and we both can support something like that.
It's sort of a "hook em' while they're young" deal, and the casualty-to-mission rating of NASA is nothing like that of the Army. The excitement factor of NASA pales in comparison to that of the Army. Hopefully, this game lands where these demand curves intersect.
Last Starfighter kicks ass!
Parent
Project: Space Station? (Score:3, Informative)
MMO or MMORPG? (Score:4, Insightful)
Notice that it refers to MMOs and not necessarily MMORPGs which, IMHO, is the most common kind of MMO. The two primary activities in MMORPGs are questing and grinding, and I don't think those activities lend themselves to accomplishing the goals NASA has set out.
So, how are they going to make this fun?
What's it going to be called? (Score:5, Funny)
What's it going to be called, My Space?
Orbiter - free space flight sim (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Orbiter - free space flight sim (Score:4, Informative)
All that NASA is looking for right now is a 5 page treatment of different ideas they can use for developing such a game, and suggestions like the one you just made is precisely what NASA is looking for. Even if you don't necessarily even desire to be involved in writing a game like this, presenting a whole bunch of excellent ideas that can be used by others who are willing to take it further can only be beneficial.
I certainly hope that by posting here on slashdot, that the potential talent pool can be substantially increased and give some excellent suggestions. Unfortunately, by posting here on slashdot it is also going to give a whole pile of trollish submissions as well, so I hope I haven't killed this poor NASA admin with a mountain of ideas.
Parent
Eve-online? (Score:4, Interesting)
New game with new memes (Score:5, Funny)
First thought: (Score:5, Interesting)
But then I thought about it. I'm a huge supporter of shutting down the shuttle program--IMHO, it jumped the shark a long time ago. My taxes could be much better spent on newer and more innovative space programs or even could be better spent here on earth. Who needs NASA anyhow? It's a DINOSAUR. A relic of the space race and the cold war. Let Richard Branson and the private sector innovate the "next stage". Let capitalism fund the new space race; they will do it better and cheaper than any bloated, corrupt, and inept government agency ever could.
BUT THEN... I thought about my childhood; I remembered how important the space missions seemed at the time, how important they were to our national identity. We had the Space Shuttle, and We we doing Important Things. In Space. I thought about it again. I remember sitting cross-legged on the floor in Mrs. Bartlett's class when I watched the Challenger crew "slip the surly bonds". I thought about the congressional hearings and the first time I learned what an o-ring was. I remember hearing that perhaps Christa Mcauliffe and the other crew members might have been alive during their inexorable plunge back to the ocean and how horrible that must have been. I remember seeing the reconstructed orbiter in that hangar on the news.
Since then I have followed the goings on at NASA with a somewhat skewed perception. I though it was cool how they were able to land that craft on that asteroid, and I smugly laughed at how much longer those Mars rovers have lasted down there than anyone had expected (yeah I know the engineers purposely underestimated the lifespans). I also recall with sadness the Columbia, but how we would not let that deter us. I've viewed every flight since with skepticism, but still. Space is The Future, and we're still there. I often wonder when the next mission to the moon will occur and who will undertake it. I'm a fan of science fiction, and the space program is sci-fi turned reality.
So. Perhaps the thought of a NASA-based video game, let alone an MMO, brought back the thought of my innocent childhood, back when NASA meant The Space Shuttle, and I had a three-foot-long paper model of Columbia hanging in my bedroom. How awesome would it be to explore our near-Earth environment, or maybe even the solar system without repercussion? No Challenger disaster, no Columbia breakup; no launch-pad fires and no explosions. Let me take the wheel, don that space suit, and explore the cosmos right here from my comfy chair. Let me fly through Google Sky in a realistic simulator, and let me turn over rocks on Mars; I want to go ice-fishing on Europa.
Yeah, I'd buy into that. Ooh, neat!
Cheers~
Please... (Score:5, Funny)
Yah, this one will be fun... (Score:5, Funny)
nasagame: use probe messenger
You are now online with Messenger
nasagame (Messenger): where
In slingshot maneuver.
Time to Mercury: 1137 days.
nasagame (Messenger): look
I see stars, albeit not too clearly.
nasagame (Messenger): exit
Messenger is now offline
nasagame: launch rocket
It's too cloudy. And your next rocket launch isn't for 184 days.
nasagame: build interplanetary probe
You don't have Senate Approval to build more probes.
Try going to a Senate Hearing
nasagame: go to senate hearing
You are now at a senate hearing.
Senator Lieberschvine asks you to justify section 10.4.3.17.2 of your budget.
nasagame (Senate Hearing): quit
Are you sure you want to quit? There's not many jobs for people with Ph.D's in physics.
Senator Lieberschvine is getting annoyed you haven't answered his question.
nasagame (Senate Hearing): exit
Senate rules forbid you from leaving until you address Senator Lieberschvine's question.
Senator Lieverschvine is pounding on his table.
nasagame (Senate Hearing): request bathroom break
You are in the bathroom.
nasagame (Senate Bathroom): climb through window
You have left Senate Hearings.
You have generated +150 Hate from Senator Lieberschine.
nasagame: build interplanetary probe
You don't have Senate Approval to build more probes.
Try going to a Senate Hearing
nasagame: status of voyager2
Status: Processing "take picture" request you submitted 2 hours ago.
Download status: 371 of 22154 bits received (0.0515 bits per second; 117 hours remaining)
nasagame: watch TV
Senator Lieberschine in on TV calling for your resignation.
President Bush has announced a 40% cut to your current funding to help pay for the Iraq War.
You see an ad for "Truck Driving School" and think it sounds appealing
nasagame: down not across
You have logged out.
Re:games (Score:5, Insightful)
It would be ungodly expensive to teach everyone the science behind it all. (And not just for NASA/schools, either.) What better solution than to allow anyone even slightly interested in space flight to learn all about it for under $200/year? Hell, NASA could even try to make use of all the idle cycles on every player's machine to run simulations (with users' permission, of course).
Parent