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Does Computer Use Actually Cause Carpal Tunnel?
Posted by
ScuttleMonkey
on Mon Oct 15, 2007 01:44 PM
from the tell-that-to-my-wrists dept.
from the tell-that-to-my-wrists dept.
BoldAC writes "A geek physician has reviewed the medical literature that explores if a relationship exists between computer use and carpal tunnel syndrome. 'Typing at the keyboard or using the mouse for hours and hours upon end just seems like it has to be horrible for your joints, right?' His conclusions certainly seem to contradict the thinking of many: 'The current research shows that computer use has very little role in causing carpal tunnel syndrome.' It even seems that both Harvard and the Journal of the American Medical Association agree with his conclusions."
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Emacs Pinky (Score:5, Funny)
Indeed (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:Emacs Pinky (Score:5, Interesting)
"I ain't got no money" is actually entirely grammatical (from a linguistics point of view), however it fails to meet the standards of formal language that Grammar Nazis prefer.
Interestingly, it could be related to Plato's Allegory of the cave. Grammar Nazis actually understand grammar little better than the average native speaker, simply they are dogmatically bound to believe that the shadows are reality, and that the arbitrary rules they have established to explain grammar are what grammar is really about.
Those who have gotten out of the cave, and see the reality of grammar, and the entire flexibility thereof, understand better than any Grammar Nazi why the above phrase was actually grammatical. And when they would attempt to explain why it is actually grammatical (it's SVO order, it's negated, and has appropriate concordation with the negation.) the Grammar Nazi looks at his cave wall and says that those reasons don't exist, because "ain't" isn't a word, and a "double negative" would logically make a positive.
Grammar Nazis are to grammar as Chiropraters are to medicine, because neither actually really practice the science described. Rather they study fringe elements related to that science, and believe their positions to be equally valid as the actual science itself.
Parent
er (Score:3, Funny)
PORN (Score:3, Funny)
Re:PORN (Score:4, Interesting)
I cured what I thought was "RSI" using this "mindbody" approach:
http://www.rsi.deas.harvard.edu/handout.doc [harvard.edu]
(Coincidental that Harvard is hosting this document, maybe the researchers should look at it themselves)
Here is the Google cache [216.239.51.104] for those who don't want to open a
I suffered for 1.5 years (where I didn't work because I didn't think I could) before I found that my cure was a completely psychological approach. From my research of CTS (as well as what my doctor told me), it is completely unrelated to typing. And from my experience with "RSI" and understanding what it actually was, I no longer believe you can actually hurt yourself from typing too much.
I now type sometimes all day long without taking many breaks. I play guitar, bass, and drums. I don't worry about posture at all. Ergonomics are only a way for me to get comfortable, not to avoid injury. I have no pain at all, and don't worry about ever having "RSI" again. It's been 5 years since I cured myself.
Please read up on the approach I'm talking about here before you flame me. It actually makes sense once you put all the pieces together. You can also search for "sarno tms" to find more info.
Read the book "The Mindbody Prescription" by John E. Sarno if you can, its really the best source for an explanation of this.
Parent
Re:PORN (Score:4, Informative)
I was about to mention how your tone and your, ah, overenthusiasm might have been part of it. But I took a look at your user profile, and it looks like your only purpose here is to shill for your pet quack. FOAD, nobody owes you a civil reply.
Parent
Re:PORN (Score:4, Interesting)
The problem is that if data entry, or general computer use can be attributed to carpel tunnel, then there is a lot of liability large companies would be responsible for. It wouldn't surprise me if this isn't one of those "paid for results" studies. I have no proof in saying it is, I'm not saying that it is, just that I wouldn't be surprised to find out it was. There is big money in work related injuries and disproving them. A company that could get lower rates and not have to payout for something directly related to the job would save a bundle if they didn't have to worry about it.
As for my friend, her job and working 12-15 hours a day 4 days straight with 2 days off in between was the only repetitive work she did that was associated with carpel tunnel. When going to her family doctor, he was convinced it was the computer work. He eventually put her on working restrictions of 8 hour days, the pain and problems were relieved to some degree and she was eventually fired and had to find a new job. This actually worked out in her benifit because the job she found after that paid almost twice as much, had reasonable hours and the company paid "employee insurance program" took care of the carpel tunnel 8 months later. As far as I know, she hasn't had issues with it ever since and does more in her off time then even when she had the old job.
I think there is a reason they call carpel tunnel a repetitive stress injury. Maybe the article is correct in that if certain limits are in place, there is no correlation. But I doubt that outside those settings it could be true. People like you and my friend sort of show it to be otherwise. I think going from 12-15 hour days to 8 hour days with regular breaks helped her a lot. But she still needed to have something sniped to end everything.
Parent
PORN (Score:3, Funny)
I have CTS (Score:5, Funny)
My GP insists that my CTS has nothing to do with my years of computer use, and that in fact it will be good post-op physio.
Still, I'm having one hand done at a time so that I can still manage one handed browsing.
Re:I have CTS (Score:4, Interesting)
So, he's right, and you're kind of right. The CTS was not caused by your computer use, but your computer use certainly did aggrevate it.
PS. I was about to applaud you for being the first "non-porn" post until your last line. *sigh*
Parent
Bull-fucking-shit (Score:3, Insightful)
Then how the hell did changing to an ergonomic keyboard and trackball stop the excruciating pain in my wrists that I experienced when using my old keyboard and mouse?
Technically speaking, I probably had tendinitis rather than carpal tunnel. Still, it's rather upsetting when you tell your doctor you have RSI and he doesn't have a clue what your talking about. God damn medical racket.
Re:Bull-fucking-shit (Score:5, Insightful)
Because you were naturally predisposed to an RSI, and and ergonomic keyboard makes things easier on your wrists once they have been inflammed by an RSI. An ergonomic keyboard is not necessary for all people, as not all people are predisposed to RSI, and that's why you have the code monkeys who sit at their computer for hours, and don't develop any RSI at all.
The only reason why CTS and RSIs appear to be more common in computer users is because we're more likely to aggrevate the situation. It's not that we have more CTS and RSIs, it's because the effect is significantly more pronounced.
Parent
Re:Bull-fucking-shit (Score:5, Insightful)
Unlike smoking, where lung cancer susceptability is likely in the high 90's of precentile, CTS susceptability is very low. Most people will not get CTS no matter how much they use a computer, whereas most people will get lung cancer from smoking.
The difference is in the likelihood rate, even though both of them are fairly equally the same thing. (Triggering a susceptability.)
Parent
One more thing (Score:5, Funny)
I agree (Score:4, Insightful)
Bullshit (Score:5, Informative)
I have RSI (Repetitive Stress Injuries) and my carpal tunnel is just fine. It's the other nerves, tendons, and muscles of my hands which ache and cause the severe pain. If you try and explain this to people they just say 'Carpal Tunnel Syndrome' unless they're a doctor. Computer use DOES cause RSI which is the real problem, and a really painful and dangerous thing. Other tasks, sewing for instance, can also cause RSI. The phenomenon is not new.
How the carpal tunnel got so famous I don't know, but the term has stuck.
Re:Bullshit (Score:5, Informative)
I'm completely serious. I had the same problem as you, diagnosed as tendinitis in the backs of my hands, and it made typing at a keyboard all day extremely painful. Physical therapy for two months, twice a week helped immensely and I learned a number of exercises that I can do at my desk that eliminate the pain entirely, if not all of the tension. I'll have to do the exercises for the rest of my life (or stop using my hands for a few straight months and let them rest and heal finally), but they're ten minutes a day and not hard. Physical therapy may be expensive if you can't get it covered under your health insurance/worker's comp, but it's a cost you have to pay now in order to not be suffering for the rest of your life. It's absolutely worth it.
Plus, for any of you who have gone to a general practitioner who was entirely clueless about RSI, go see an orthopedic surgeon. That was my GP's recommendation and it was spot on. The surgeon knew exactly what sort of damage might have been caused, knew how to check whether it was muscle/tendon damage or nerve damage, and was the one who referred me to the physical therapist. Your GP isn't necessarily clueless, but he or she is a generalist. A specialist will (hopefully) have a lot better understanding of the specific problems and possible solutions that RSI entails.
Parent
Consumer Reports (Score:5, Informative)
Depends on your position (Score:5, Informative)
1) 11 hours straight of Everquest - no pain from mouse or keyboard
2) 6 hours of Quake (back in the day) - no pain from mouse or keyboard
3) 20 minutes of mouse use at odd angle (but not so odd as to say other people wouldn't use a mouse like this) - back of hand starting hurting
4) Couple days of keyboard and mouse use on bad desk setup (keyboard high, forearms rest on edge of desk, etc) - shoulder and elbow pain.
I know what my body does and doesn't like. Relaxed shoulders, no reaching for the mouse, etc.
Driving (Score:5, Interesting)
I think it's a serious confounding variable, that most office workers have those two things in common: significant time spent driving a car, and typing on computer keyboards.
Hush (Score:4, Funny)
Wait until the companies have settled up and gone bankrupt. Then let it slip quietly that the whole thing wasn't true -- just like they did with the silicone gel breast-implant cases. Those were found to be harmless after the lawyers got paid.
My Personal Story (Score:5, Interesting)
What I believe is going on is that CTS/RSI pain is not caused by doing one thing too often or putting your body in one position too often. Instead, it's caused by not doing other things often enough or putting your body in other positions often enough. I don't have any proof of that except for my own personal experience and the experiences of others that I've told, but those seem to indicate that bad posture/ergonomics can be counteracted by regular exercise of the affected area.
Re:Not actually computer use that causes it... (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Not actually computer use that causes it... (Score:4, Interesting)
FWIW, I found that switching the mouse to the left hand for a month and then alternating every couple of weeks made all my arm pain go away. It takes a day or two to get used to using the mouse in the off-hand, but was well worth it for me.
Parent