Slashdot Log In
Weapon Found in Whale Dated From the 1800s
Posted by
Zonk
on Fri Jun 15, 2007 01:04 PM
from the whale-just-wanted-the-damn-kids-off-his-lawn dept.
from the whale-just-wanted-the-damn-kids-off-his-lawn dept.
LABarr writes "AP and CNN are carrying a story that has forced scientists to re-evaluate the longevity of mammals. A bowhead whale caught off the Alaskan coast last month had a weapon fragment embedded in its neck that showed it survived a similar hunt over a century ago. 'Embedded deep under its blubber was a 3½-inch arrow-shaped projectile that has given researchers insight into the whale's age, estimated between 115 and 130 years old. The bomb lance fragment, lodged in a bone between the whale's neck and shoulder blade, was likely manufactured in New Bedford, on the southeast coast of Massachusetts, a major whaling center at that time. It was probably shot at the whale from a heavy shoulder gun around 1890.' "
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Finally (Score:5, Funny)
Not the first time (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Not the first time (Score:5, Insightful)
Rather, it puts the age of the spearhead at well over 100 years. Isn't is possible--perhaps not likely, but possible--that the spearhead went unused for decades after being produced?
Yay, Humans (Score:5, Funny)
Nothing proves that man is who rules the Earth like taking animals that are 130 years old, killing them, and then hacking them up with a chainsaw. Keep showin' them animals who's boss, oh brave hunters.
YOU'RE NEXT, TURTLES
Re:Yay, Humans (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Yay, Humans (Score:5, Insightful)
It isn't because they are cute, it is because they are rare, unique and irreplaceable. When they are gone, they are gone for good.
M-
Re:Yay, Humans (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh, they're doing it for cultural reasons? Then let them use hand-thrown harpoons to kill it and whale-bone knives to carve it up. You can't have it both ways. I suspect that vast factory ships with explosive harpoon heads and gas-powered chainsaws are not culturally consistent.
I'm sure that killing Mountain Gorillas is culturally consistent for some African tribes, yet no one complains when they are protected.
I agree that maintaining cultural identity is important, but where do we draw the line? To my mind, the law is there to be followed, for everyone. Double standards are racist and backwards. If killing whales is acceptable to our society, then make it legal. If it is unacceptable, make it illegal. The law should not be different because of who your parents were, or what the color of your skin is.
M-
Back from the 23rd Century (Score:5, Funny)
oblig (Score:5, Funny)
Are you kidding?! (Score:5, Funny)
Every time it would rain, the poor whale can be heard for miles singing the complaining song of old whales. Roughly translated from whale song as he was talking to younger whales, "Aye! My neck is killing me! Years ago, some son of a bitch human shot me right in me neck! Yarrr. It 'urts every time a storm is ah brew'n. Yarrr. Take note young'ns"
This could be very bad (Score:5, Insightful)
By "caught", you mean "killed", right? (Score:5, Insightful)
The whale wasn't "caught", it was killed. It's really disappointing to think that people still killing rare, intelligent mammals that can live to over 150 years old.
And before people start telling me that whale hunting is part of Inuit tradition, I'd like to point out that TFA mentions that this whale was killed with an mechanically-launched explosive projectile. That's about as traditional as a Lakota shooting a buffalo with an AK-47.
Re:By "caught", you mean "killed", right? (Score:4, Insightful)
That tradition is at least 100 years old, since the 1800's weapon was a mechanically-launched explosive projectile as well.
Yeah but (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Yeah but (Score:5, Funny)
Wow! (Score:5, Funny)
Aging Whales: Evidence of Age (Score:4, Informative)
Aging Whales: Evidence of Age
Marine researchers now believe that the Arctic Bowhead whale may live 180 years or longer making it the longest lived mammal on earth. Back in the early 1990's, biologists weren't sure whether to trust these estimates, that is, until they stumbled on an important clue. I'm Jim Metzner, and this is the Pulse of the Planet, presented by DuPont. Jeffery Bada is a Professor of Marine Chemistry at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography at La Jolla, California.
"During the annual harvest by the local Inuit hunters, the biologists that were observing this found that there were stone harpoons imbedded in some of these whales. And these stone harpoons were no longer used by the local hunters after about 1870. Stone harpoons in a whale that was killed in the 90's implies that it is over a hundred years old, and this provided independent confirmation that we indeed were onto something really interesting."
What proved equally as interesting to Jeffrey Bada and the other researchers, was the fact that the oldest whales taken during the harvest were all males.
"I don't think it necessarily implies that the males of the species live longer than the females. It has more to do with their behavior. These hundred year plus old whales were survivors of the great slaughter of whales that took place in the late nineteenth century. And males in this species of Bowheads, tend to be solitary animals, where as the females group together in these big pods of whales, and as a result, they were probably more easily hunted. It may be that the solitary males survived, whereas the females were more heavily exploited."
We'll hear more about the long-lived Bowhead whales in a future programs. Pulse of the Planet is presented by DuPont, bringing you the miracles of science for 200 years, with additional support provided by the National Science Foundation.
---
[ above from: http://pulseplanet.com/archive/Feb02/2602.html [pulseplanet.com] ]
OMG (Score:5, Funny)
Longevity of whales (Score:5, Insightful)
Ships injure and kill whales, whalers kill whales, sonar from U.S. Navy submarines kill whales and ruin their hearing. What we're doing is unforgivable.
Is anybody else alarmed about the news that we just killed an old whale?
Re:Longevity of whales (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Longevity of whales (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Longevity of whales (Score:5, Insightful)
I had part of a pig for breakfast and turkey for lunch, so I'd be a hypocrite if I complained much.
Re:Longevity of whales (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Longevity of whales (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Longevity of whales (Score:5, Insightful)
Then imagine the rest of the planet trying to get Americans to abandon this tradition.
Re:Longevity of whales (Score:5, Insightful)
Straw man much?
Anyway, where is the all-knowing, perfectly-objective judge to make this decision? Some say, people killing whales is causing us to run out of whales, and running out of whales would be bad, and so all people killing whales should stop.
Some other people might say, we've been killing whales with canoes and spears for thousands of years and it's never been a problem. We never ran out of whales. It's the new kids on the sea with what are basically warships and canons (to make war on sea life) that are causing the problems.
How about the folks that are having problems living off the sea stop being so destructive, and stop bothering with the folks who are living with the sea?
Re:Longevity of whales (Score:5, Insightful)
I would also guess that the Inuit people couldn't care any less about whether there are enough whales to supply you with Animal Planet specials about whales to watch from your climate controlled living room. They are probably more concerned with the continued existence of whales due to their cultural connections being deeper than regular visits to Pier One's nautical themed knick knack department.
Re:Longevity of whales (Score:5, Interesting)
"Modern farming practices are potentially far more sustainable than the more traditional methods.
Sure we could use our very well developed understanding of ecosystem science to make farming sustainable, but what actually happens is that all our fancy science is used to make "food production" profitable. And not even profitable for the farmer necessarily, but profitable to the mass food distribution system conglomerates through high yield monocultures.
Buying local produce from "sustainable practice farms" (I just made that term up, i'm no expert... can't remember the technical term), usually called organic (but you'll want to verify this as the major food conglomerates have moved into "organic mass production") is not only a good way to get tasty food, it's an act of economic protest. Unfortunately, like most protest in the west, it's reserved for the relatively well off.
Re:Longevity of whales (Score:5, Insightful)
If someone came into your house and opened every water faucet for 23 hours of the day, then suddenly turned them off, and then had the audacity to tell you to conserve water by not drinking any, would you accept that?
Re:Longevity of whales (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Longevity of whales (Score:5, Informative)
"We" (as in "people subject to U.S. law") have stopped killing them. If you RTFA, you'll find that the people who killed the whale were Eskimos, who have permission to do it because it's their tradition.
If you want to bitch at the Eskimos for doing it, be my guest -- but you'll probably get bitched at in return about how "their traditions are as endangered as the whales" or some such thing.
That is the most stupid answer I ever read (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not just about saving a species, it's about the whole ecosystem a species fits in that is destroyed because of the actions of forementioned idiots.
Re:Longevity of whales (Score:5, Funny)
I agree, I bet new species pop up all the time. Heck, just this morning I bet a couple of new species of whales were created! Yeah, it will happen no matter what we do....even though we are the ones doing it. Makes sense.
Lets start a club where we try not to cloud these issues with facts and logic. We can call it the Patriot Freedom Club. We can have cookies, and chocolate milk, and talk about how much global warming is beyond our control. Then we can get in our SUV's and go run over baby tortoises as they scramble for the ocean! Die little bastards, die!
Sorry, long day.
Re:Longevity of whales (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe you should be forced to grow your own food using 19th century technology. That should have the nice side benefit of reducing your "carbon footprint".
Re:Longevity of whales (Score:5, Insightful)
I live in Juneau, Alaska and we have so many fucking whales up here you can't even walk down the beach without seeing them right here in the waters offshore. That's not exactly a historical perspective, but we're not talking about the last dodo here.
The reason to stop hunting whales isn't that there are few of them, but rather that they probably have legitimate claim at the second most intelligent life from on earth, and more importantly, probably above the threshold of intelligence where we shouldn't hunt them at all. Whales, dolphins, elephants, and primates -- they are all probably above that threshold. As humans, we respect our own first, then other highly intelligent animals (which all happen to be mammals), then other mammals, then other animals, then other forms of life. People differ on where along that spectrum we should stop the killing. Vegans put the line right under all animals, I put it right under intelligent life.
If you really care about whales, then rally against their biggest problem, which is (and for 150 years has been) boat engine noise, which fucks up their ability to talk to one another.
Fool of myself (Score:4, Insightful)
Why don't you post from an account instead of posting as an AC?
I am aware that Inuit were doing the hunting. So what? Inuit have other choices. Fishing for salmon would be a good example.
I do value the Inuit culture, but at a certain point clinging to old ways becomes a Luddite reaction to change. They don't need to hunt whale, and their continuing hunts of whales endanger their future ability to hunt whales.
Mankind needs to move on. Lingering in old ways does not exalt the past, it mocks the past.
Re:Longevity of whales (Score:4, Insightful)
What exactly am I close-minded about? Or uninformed for that matter, was I wrong about something?
Re:Longevity of whales (Score:5, Funny)
Well it is Slashdot;-) There are two sides to every opinion: the right one and the uninformed, close-minded one.
Re:Wow, what it must have felt like... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Indigenous culture. Time to change? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Indigenous culture. Time to change? (Score:5, Interesting)
If they want to preserve their ancient ways, fine. Hunt whales from small canoes with bone spears. But don't use a chainsaw and claim you're 'preserving your heritage'. Heritage is not a buffet. Either do it as your ancestors did to keep in touch with your past, or man up and move on.
Re:Indigenous culture. Time to change? (Score:5, Insightful)
If they want to preserve their ancient ways, fine. Hunt whales from small canoes with bone spears. But don't use a chainsaw and claim you're 'preserving your heritage'. Heritage is not a buffet. Either do it as your ancestors did to keep in touch with your past, or man up and move on.
Yeah, and at some point in the past they upgraded from bone to stone hewn tools to metal. At some point in the past they have made improvements to the designs of their boats. Exactly which revision of their "heritage" are you saying they have to stick to for it to satisfy you?
Unless one of their cultural traditions is "technological statism" then I don't see the problem. They didn't "man up and move on" when they invented a better harpoon; it was considered the natural continuation of the same heritage. Because there's a lot more to the underlying cultural heritage than a specific hunting technique.
Or do you think the plains natives should have stopped their traditional bison hunts after they aquired the horse from European settlers? I think in both cases the spiritual and cultural significance of the hunt was not fundamentally erased just because they figured out a new and better way to do it.
Re:Indigenous culture. Time to change? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Indigenous culture. Time to change? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Indigenous culture. Time to change? (Score:5, Insightful)
The Intuit whale take is below the species replacement rate, so they aren't putting the bowheads survival in any danger.
Re:Indigenous culture. Time to change? (Score:5, Insightful)
Although the general argument goes along the lines that allowing indigenous people to hunt whales makes it harder to put pressure on Asians, I think that this argument is deeply flawed. We have stopped hunting whales with modern weapons because we realize the harm we are doing to the environment. Unless the Japanese and others come to a similar realization, we will not be able to stop them.
One important (even priceless) posession is that of cultural heritage and living tradition. I recognize that many in the world today, having lost a sense of heritage and tradition, fail to appreciate its value, but telling native peoples which traditions they can or cannot do (or even should or should not do) is simple imperialism and tramples on this priceless posession.
The danger of extinction for a species due to traditional practices only comes from two sources. If we recognize this, we can allow people to continue with their heritage and still avoid damage to the environment.
The first is due to technological advancement. This is what lead to the extinction of the Aurochs in Europe (the development of firearms used in hunting wiped out this animal very quickly. Arguably, the rise in higher technology weaponry nearly caused the extinction of many species of whales as well.
The second is due to explosion of demand. This is usually linked to either population increase or more likely more efficient methods of hunting (see the previous paragraph).
Before people suggest that it is still immoral to hunt whales just because they are whales (and absent from sustainability issues), let me say one thing. Every time you eat the standard chicken you get at the supermarket, every time you eat a hamburger, and every time you eat a boiled egg, unless you go out of your way to do otherwise, you are contributing to a system which imprisons animals in ways which are far more unethical.
Personally, I try my best to eat only free range or organically raised meat wherever I can. I go to the length of buying a side of beef once a year from a farmer who raises the cattle locally and humanely. But to suggest that it is unethical for Native Americans to hunt whales while contributing to this gross mistreatment of livestock is not only imperialist, it is also hypocritical.
Re:Indigenous culture. Time to change? (Score:5, Insightful)
This is always brought up, implying that human tradition is so sacrosanct. Subsistence hunting is one thing, but many traditions and heritages are steeped in ridiculous mysticism, bigotry, and pseudoscience.
I mean, I know that I wholeheartedly support movements that seek to stop equality for the sexes, because it's so important to my culture to treat women like shit. Or how about those traditions of imperialism, wanton slaughter of natives, poisoning the environment.
The greater whole of humanity and the environment should always trump any cultural tradition. The real reason small indigenous groups can continue their subsistence hunting is because their impact is negligible.
Talking about culture as if it is some static thing is ridiculous in of itself. Culture changes as science progresses and social revolutions occur. Once the majority of whites realized that colored people weren't a bunch of savage slightly intelligent monkeys, most of them woke up and started treating them with some modicum of dignity. The only "culture" true to humans is that we adapt and change. Everything else is aesthetics (the clothes we wear, art we fashion, things we pray to, dreams we have).
Re:Am I the only one disgusted by this? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Yayhoos? (Score:5, Interesting)
Whaling is supposed to permitted by the IWC for traditional hunts by certain indigenous peoples. Perhaps you'd like to tell us what part of using a sophisticated modern projectile weapon is traditional?
The tragedy and travesty is that most of these so-called "traditional" hunts are bogus. Rather than using traditional means and rituals these "natives" are using modern weapons, sonar and a variety of other means to find and kill whales. The catch being often turned over to the Japanese for profit.
There is as much "tradition" in this type of whaling as there is "science" in Japanese scientific whaling. It's all a smokescreen for profit.
So, I agree with the original poster, although "yayhoos" is a very generous word.
Re:Congratulations! (Score:4, Funny)
However, the big different between God and animals is that there are animals.