Timely Book On Bird Flu 174
Lifelongactivist writes, "A new free book about bird flu has been published by Michael Greger, M.D., the US Humane Society's director of public health and animal agriculture. Bird Flu: a Virus of Our Own Hatching (the site contains the entire book text) tells why modern industrialized agricultural methods, including factory farming, antibiotics misuse, and the use of animal refuse as a food source (!) for chickens and other livestock, have led to a staggering increase in the number of 'zoonotic' diseases that can leap from animals to people, and make a bird flu pandemic likely. The book discusses in practical terms what you can do to prevent infection and what to do if you do catch the disease. The book is especially timely given yesterday's news that a new, vaccine-resistant variant of H5N1 has been detected in China."
Update: 10/31 19:44 GMT by KD : Corrected to read "vaccine-resistant."
Update: 10/31 19:44 GMT by KD : Corrected to read "vaccine-resistant."
On remedies... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:On remedies...(chicken soup) (Score:2, Interesting)
Another preparation that's recommended is that you have a surgical face mask to avoid breathing in the virus, and to avoid spreading it if you're infected but not showing symtoms. Here's a reference: http://www.cdc.gov/flu/professionals/infectioncont rol/maskguidance.htm [cdc.gov]
I've heard sev
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The flu virus is not airborne; it is contact spread. The most common sources of infection are doorknobs and money, but the most common source of infection by the Avian Flu is from handling birds. Wear gloves.
Wearing a surgical mask is not to prevent you from catching the flu virus, it is to prevent you from spreading it when you sneeze on people/things, putting them into contact with your infected, pr
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I hear that restricting one's liquid intake to grain alcohol and rainwater works wonders for avian flu..
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"The flu virus is not airborne; it is contact spread."
Yes, but it's a respiratory virus. That means that the afflicted person needs to get the virus out through the mouth or nasal passages - like rubbing their noses, or sneezing. It also means that you have to get some on you, and then get it into your respiratory tract - like rubbing your eyes or nose, chewing your nails, etc.. Wearing a mask helps prevent the spread on both ends, even if it just keeps people from sneezing on you, and keeps you from p
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You're getting the ingredients together this week? Man, if you don't already have water, sugar, and salt, then you might be in trouble.
The sugar and salt method is used because almost EVERYONE has those ingredients available, not because it's the best. It is enough, though, that even with severe diarrhea, you can survive almost indefinitely - certainly long enough to get medical ca
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"how do we operate the city when 30-40% of our staff are out sick themselves or busy at home caring for their family members"
An even better approach would be "How can we send as many people as possible home, so we're not contributing to the problem by having them spread it around at the office?"
Antibiotic resistant??? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Antibiotic resistant??? (Score:5, Insightful)
What's the logic? (Score:1, Insightful)
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It seems that the fault is entirely on the parts of the submitter and editor, as the linked article clearly says vaccine resistant.
That idiocy dispensed with, the problem is less modern farming techniques (although these are bad and do contribute) so much as it is modern concentrated population centres and rapid world wide travel. Someone picks up something nasty in korea and the next day they're spreading round the dense population of New York.
Well, etymologically speaking... (Score:2)
Antibiotic- Anti-Life, so technically a viral immunization could be considered an antibiotic (as long as you consider a virus to be alive, which is an open scientific question). The the virus itself could also be considered antibiotic, as could anti-freeze and anti-personnel mines. It sounds nitpicky, but no more so than usual for slashdot. The editor should probably go back and insert antiviral resistant, and penicillin should probably be referred to as anti-b
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Captain Obvious breaks it down again (Score:5, Insightful)
Slashdot folk should be bright enough to know better. ALL viri are 100% immune to antibiotics. Antibiotics only work against germ based diseases.
Anyway.... Someday we will get another major pandemic, and yes our modern industrial livestock methods will contribute some to it. But they popped up before and will still pop up if we abandoned it. The question for debate is: are the potential savings from lowering the odds of a pandenic worth the certain loss of life from famine and all it's attendant problems that would result from losing the food production capacity gained from industrialization.
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First demonstrate that there would actually be any such loss of food production.
KFG
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But which would you prefer, a big bowl of oats or a nice juicy burger? Meat is so much tastier then grain, let the cows eat it and we'll eat them.
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Humans have pointy teeth for a reason.
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you can grow much more grain than meat on a piece of land.
In most cases, you are correct, and if I put your quote back in context of your comment, you are correct. However, there are still some circumstances where meat wins, such as on very steep hillsides, etc. where the animals are able to feed themselves through grazing on land unsuitable for growing grain.
I don't mean to be pedantic here. My point is really that there are alternatives to mass production that do make efficient use of the land, a
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"First stop was a hopper filled with Rumensin, a powerful antibiotic that No. 534 will consume with his feed every day for the rest of his life. Calves have no need of regular medication while on grass, but as soon as they're placed in the backgrounding pen, they're apt to get sick. Why? The stress of weaning is a factor, but the main culprit is the feed. The shift to a 'hot ration' of grain can so disturb the cow's digestive process--its rumen, in particular--that it can kill the animal if not managed care
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Actually there would be a significant loss of life if we drastically changed our agriculture away from livestock.
Only the loss of life would not happen in the wealthy countries.
It is safe to say that we have evolved with livestock as a major part of our agricultire program.
You might have a more intelligent design. But for me, I'll stick to the proven res
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Unfortunately, that's only true for a tiny, tiny percentage of the Earth's surface. I produce hell of a lot of food from raising livestock. I challenge you to come round to mine and produce as much as a hundredweight of grain from the same piece of land.
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If we stopped feeding animals this grain, there would be a lot more for people to eat (as well as ridding ourselves of the problems caused by industrial scale meat production). (doubleplusgood)
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Plants are what food eats.
Ok, old joke and I know we H. Sapiens are actuallu omnivores who need a balanced diet of both to thrive but the point is still valid. We aren't made to be vegetarians and I damned sure ain't giving up yummy meat. Besides, who wants to get vaginatitus.
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For "vaginatitus", Firefox spell check suggests:
- unimaginative
- imaginatively
- paginations
I don't know what you had in mind but it sure sounds bad.... (could it be some disease that takes over the vagina and tits?)... or perhaps you get if from "your yummy meat"... Anyway, I doubt you could get it from eating vegetables or we would have heard of it by now.
Joke explained for the unhip (Score:2)
See South Park, Episode 0605, Fun With Veal. [southparkstudios.com]
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So what? We're omnivores, and we require both plants and animals in our diet for optimum health.
Turning all land to growing grain won't help anyone survive (except the livestock). There is NO lack of food in the world right now that could be fixed by growing more food. We could grow 10x the amount of food as we do now, and people would still be starving all over the world. If you want to stop famine, you have to do
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Medscape Medical News "Vegetable Consumption Slows Rate of Cognitive Decline" http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/546472?src=mp [medscape.com]
It sounds like an easier path than the old fashioned imperialism thing which isn't working too well now.
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Many other studies have shown that meat isn't very good for you due to high fat (bad saturated fat) and other problems. Here's one example that came in my email today that shows the advantage of the "Mediterranean diet":
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There is no nutritional requirement for flesh food, or indeed for animal foods of any sort, in the human diet, as the the existance of legions of healthy vegetarians and vegans proves. (Which is not to say that there are not healthful diets that contain flesh foods, and unhealthful vegan diets.)
Moving towards a plant-centered diet
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What about all the plants that you kill? They're sentient too: they have senses. How else do plants turn towards the sun?
By your own definition, you shouldn't be eating any type of living organism. Maybe you could eat some mud. Oh wait, that probably has living bacteria in it.
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well, assuming you're not just being a pedant, i would suggest that if you were truly concerned about the well-being of plants you would become a vegan. remember, cows eat plants. when you eat cows you kill the cow, and the plants the cow ate. add to this the dramatic inefficiency of turning plant calories into cow calories and that burger means the death of a dozen bread loaves worth o
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No, it doesn't. You're thinking of "sapient". "Sentient" just means it has senses.
Wikipedia article" [wikipedia.org]
Are you suggesting that heliostatic photovoltaic panels are sentient?
No, because they're not alive. But Venus Fly-trap plants are certainly sentient.
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No, it doesn't:
1. having the power of perception by the senses; conscious.
2. characterized by sensation and consciousness.
YES, IT DOES. [wikipedia.org]
Your reference is wrong.
"Sentience refers to possession of sensory organs, the ability to feel or perceive, not necessarily including the faculty of self-awareness. The possession of sapience is not a necessity. The word sentient is often confused with the word sapient, which can connote knowledge, consciousness, or apperception. T
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I've never met a healthy vegan yet. Come to that, most of the vegetarians I know always seem to have *something* wrong with them, often to do with allergies. Maybe they have some kind of deficiency.
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Incidentally, I don't know where in the
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I don't have much sympathy for farmers asking for more subsidies in the name of "security". As it is, farmers get $30 billion a year in direct subsidies plus much more in higher food prices
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A lot of food we produce is not eaten by us, but by the animals we raise for later consumption. We could produce a lot more food if we cut out the indirection and ate that food ourselves. Of course, we would need to take care that we produce something c
mother nature... (Score:2)
Say what? (Score:2)
And at no point does some woman in a billowy outfit ever come into the picture.
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There must be a flaw in the system:
Quote: [fhfh.org]
Based on the Census Bureau survey, USDA estimates that in 2000, 10.5 million U.S. households were food insecure, meaning that they did not have access to enough food to meet their basic needs.
CC.
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Another way we c
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It's certainly true that changes in elements of an ecosystem due to for example, changes in food supply, can restore a degree of natural balance over a number of years.
However, this is in no way guaranteed or necessarily a "natural" system. There is (I'm afraid) no evidence of a Mother Nature. Species die out. Species have been failing and dying out spectacularly since the beginning of life.
While mankind has been spectacularly destructive and exploitative in t
Feh (Score:1)
An Antibiotic not an Antiviral (Score:2)
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Timely? (Score:2)
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There are no antibiotic-resistant flu strains (Score:3, Informative)
Flu has something somewhat like chromosomes: different strands of genetic material that can mix and recombine. As a result there are many, many subvarieties of influenza. The way vaccination works (currently and for the forseeable future) is it presents parts of the virus to your immune system so your immune system can subsequently recognize them and fight them off. We can't present every single possible viral coat in one shot (mostly because we haven't ever encountered most of them so we don't have any way of making them to put into the shot) so what we do is take the viruses that are currently active in China, put those in the shot, and give those to suseptible populations. It's a different mix every single year, and it sounds like now this one has changed enough it's time for another mix, just like every other year.
A reason that flu is particularly worrisome is that it's shared between pigs, chickens, and humans, which is somewhat unusual; in many places in the world people, pigs, and chickens live in close contact, which makes cross-infection easy; and when a person, pig or chicken catches two different varieties of flu, they can recombine (because of the multiple strands of genetic material) and create a whole new variety that is unlike anything seen before. The new variety will suddenly have a whole world of unprepared immune systems to go attack, so it'll do very well indeed for a while.
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Except when they stop working.
Antibiotics-resistant bacteria are way scarier, IMO, especially since you're more likely to get infected by them where you go for treatment (ie hospitals).
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It's a hard call which are scarier. Multi-drug-resistant tuberculosis is likely to be this decade's AIDS: slowly but inescapably lethal. Some of the most horrible, quick diseases are also bacterial: necrotizing fasciitis, pneumonic plague. But there are also some seriously horrible viral diseases. In all honesty, we should still call AIDS 99% fatal, and hantaviru
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It's not antibiotic resistant (Score:2)
It means the chickens aren't protected from GETTING this strain of bird flu. However once they have it there's no drug that currently exists to treat it, it all comes down to one's own immune system (however in the case of chickens it simply means death since I can't see a hospital being set up to care for them and give them hot chicken soup... neve
So... (Score:1)
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The article does make some good points about antibiotic misuse and this has been a pet peeve of mine for a while that I think is a cause for genuine concern. Diseases like MRSA can be devastating (I have a friend with it who has not been able to work since May, and is l
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There have been a number of flu pandemics. Millions died in 1918. Smaller pandemics happened in 1957 and 1968. Flu is one of the hardest viruses to prevent infection, because o
The researchers... (Score:5, Funny)
I'm glad I'm a programmer.
Tell me about it... (Score:2)
Yep, I went there.
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Nonsense. (Score:3, Informative)
If the theory is that the industrial farming of livestock leads to cross-species infection, then there's not a lot to indicate that. Bird flu is a particularly good example, seeing as how the H5N1 strain mentioned originated in poultry from pre-industrial style farms in southeast Asia. All of the cases outside of that region have been detected in wild birds. Crossing species has only been reported among people in those areas where there's protracted contact with the birds.
The referenced site overstates the virulence of the H5N1 flu as well.
Antibiotics don't select for strains of the virus, and strictly speaking neither do vaccinations.
Animal products being fed to the same species can be a problem for prion-based disorders, but that represents a very situation that produces a toxin, not a virulent disease.
As far as treatment for it, that's easy. There's only two: vaccination, and transfusion of blood from someone that's already had it. Other than that, you just treat the symptoms and hope for the best.
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"Antibiotics don't select for strains of the virus, and strictly speaking neither do vaccinations."
Sure, vaccinations do, at least in some cases - including the flu. That's why the flu shot you get each year only works against certain strains of the influenze virus, and why they don't work against H5N1.
"Animal products being fed to the same species can be a problem for prion-based disorders, but that represents a very situation that produces a toxin, not a virulent disease."
They also represent a
Yep, non-industrial farming is the bad type (Score:2)
Industrial farming keeps the birds inside. They might never even see sunshine, never mind having contact with wild birds.
The guy clearly ignores the facts to push his political agenda. He'd be demanding that all farms everywhere be factory-style if he were honest.
Bird flu is a bird disease (Score:2)
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Show me 40 million shark deaths anywhere in history and we'll talk.
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H5N1 is a strain of bird flu, not the bird flu itself.
All H5N1 is the bird flu, but not all bird flu is not H5N1, like all Ford Focus's are cars, but not all cars are Ford Focus's.
There are many strains of the bird flu (Hello, the article we are responding to is about another strain of the bird flu!).
The 1918 pandemic WAS caused by a strain of the bird flu [rferl.org]. See also NYTimes [nytimes.com].
A book? (Score:1)
Factory Farming Keeps Humans and Animals Apart (Score:3, Interesting)
Which claim raises the question: why is it that flu pandemics always originate in the Far East, where none of these things are prevalent?
The conventional wisdom is that in the Orient there is far more routine contact between human beings and food animals, and far less emphasis on maintaining a relatively hygenic environment in the places where such contact occurs. Part of this is cultural (some food animals in China are typically sold to consumerss while still alive) and part of it is economic (factory farming is capital intensive, and agriculture has tended to lag other industries in industrialization. The transfer of viruses between humans and animals made possible by this routine contact is what produces cross-species pandemics.
On the other hand, factory farming keeps animals pretty much completely isolated from humans (and the outdoors, freedom to move, wild grasses, and everything else.)
So while I'm no fan of all aspects of modern factory farming, I have very little doubt that it is at least partly responsible for the relative scarcity of flu pandemics that originate in the West.
The article itself is just fud, and the person submitting it is not an environmentalist, but rather just another religious kook who has wandered into the wrong movement.
Recycled Food (Score:2)
Eat recycled food, for a happier, healthier life. Be kind and peaceful to each other, eat recycled food. Recycled food - it's good for the environment, and ok for you.
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Um...hypothetically speaking.... (Score:2)
FUD or not? (Score:2)
But haven't more people died from spinach, indeed, from pretty much anything else that's deadly, than bird flu? I'm not saying it won't be eventually become more prevalent, but I think the likelihood of getting hit by a jet airliner's frozen poop is proba.....
This kind of crap (Score:1, Troll)
Although the author may be exploiting the media hype for his own ego. There are other problems/viruses that are here now and are killing people. West Nile virus, deer tick virus, Lyme disease. But lets all concentrate only on something that hasn't even materialized yet. Why not worry about one of these mutating into something worse.
This is tantamount to worrying about gay marriage instead of the 2800 US soldie
Deplorable (Score:2)
Puh-leeze (Score:2)
/. Tribute (Score:2)
And more bad "facts" (Score:2)
Staggering increase? Due to modern industrialized agricultural methods?
The fact is, pandemics have increased in the past couple hundred years because people are able to travel further, faster. That's the only reason pandemic are relatively modern. Epidemic
I recommend: The Devil's Flu (Score:2)
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Chickens with reasonable living accomodations and an environment free of dioxin contamination [birdfluhype.com] simply don't get bird flu.
Arsenic in chicken feed [consumerreports.org] also likely causes (subtle?) health problems... "But the lack of arsenic in organic chickens is suggestive: USDA standards do not allow a
Arsenic... (Score:2)
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Which ones do you think will be healthier?
It's not any different with chickens.
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Even without the ground-up brains bit, animals that haven't been able to move in their whole lives can't exactly be healthy to eat. Nor are they usually "lean".
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"animals that haven't been able to move in their whole lives can't exactly be healthy to eat. Nor are they usually "lean"."
He didn't say "lean", he said "leaner" - meaning they're not as fat as pigs which were so obese that they couldn't even stand. Pigs of today have, indeed, been bred to be leaner than pigs of ten or fifteen years ago.
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I usually buy meat from the local organic grocery stores, so I'm pretty sure it's all "organic" and is labelled as such (though I don't have any at hand to check for sure).
Watch out; there seem to be a bunch of people on here who think that cramming chickens into tiny cages somehow makes them healthier, judging by the other responses. Does the corporate me
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The reason why these nasty flus come out of China is not just because they have dirty chickens, or that they have dirty chickens in such close proximity to humans. It's because they have dirty chicken farming AND dirty pig farming in such close proximity to each other and to
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Good luck in the pandemic, man.