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Ever-Happy Mouse Sheds Light on Depression

Posted by ScuttleMonkey on Wed Aug 23, 2006 02:26 AM
from the happy-go-lucky dept.
Biotech Science
An anonymous reader writes "Scientists have bred a strain of mouse that's permanently cheerful, in hopes of better understanding and treating depression in people. By breeding mice lacking the TREK-1 gene, which is involved in serotonin transmission, researchers were able create a depression-resistant strain. They say it's the first time depression has been eliminated through genetic alteration of an organism."
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Ever-Happy Mouse Sheds Light on Depression 25 Comments More /

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  • Lets call him (Score:5, Funny)

    by mathi (539622) on Wednesday August 23 2006, @02:28AM (#15960608)
    Pinky

  • Today's Philosphical question... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by atomicstrawberry (955148) on Wednesday August 23 2006, @02:34AM (#15960628)
    If you're incapable of depression, and you're always happy, how do you know if you really are happy?

    • Re:Today's Philosphical question... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by sporkme (983186) * on Wednesday August 23 2006, @02:44AM (#15960653) Homepage
      The same question goes for antidepressant drugs. I have spent long hours debating this with a doped up roomate as he gleefully skipped from psychoactive to psychoactive about the benefits and detriments of mommy's little helpers. I know that they got him through some difficult spots (without the psychotic episodes of his adolescence), but they also stifled his writing ability and effictively stopped his songwriting.

      He was successful in college and in work thanks to these drugs, but was he truly happy without poetry and music?

      Maybe Winston Smith can shed some light on this.

      • Re:Today's Philosphical question... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by feyhunde (700477) on Wednesday August 23 2006, @03:26AM (#15960743)
        I have to argue the reverse, I'm only able to write on the anti-depressants, as depression is complex and arrests my motivation for writing, as well as clearing the wooly cobwebs in my brain that make the process so hard.

      • Re:Today's Philosphical question... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by edunbar93 (141167) on Wednesday August 23 2006, @03:50AM (#15960808)
        He was successful in college and in work thanks to these drugs, but was he truly happy without poetry and music?

        To quote Trent Reznor: "I don't write a lot when I'm happy."

        I have a theory that says that the function of modern art is for the viewer to live vicariously through the artist's insanity. Van Gogh was famous for this. So was Leonard Cohen, Janis Joplin, Kurt Cobain, Alan Ginsberg, Salvador Dali, and Jackson Pollock, to name a few.

        Perhaps the question isn't "can he be happy without his poetry", but "can he make good poetry without his sadness".

      • Re:Today's Philosphical question... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by feepness (543479) on Wednesday August 23 2006, @04:11AM (#15960862) Homepage
        He was successful in college and in work thanks to these drugs, but was he truly happy without poetry and music?

        I'm not a big fan of permanently medicating the mind unless absolutely necessary... but when I had a episode of depression brought on by major illness, I wasn't thinking about poetry and music.

        I was thinking pretty much constantly about killing myself. Not little fantasies "God I should just shoot myself." No... we're talking cold, calm, and consistent thoughts. Very frightening in retrospect and even more frightening that it felt so normal at the time.

        Thank goodness I had family/friends to point me towards medical care. Lexapro changed that like a light switch, and the depression (and anti-depressants) are just a memory. But for some the depression is chronic and the treatment will probably need to be permanent.

        And yes, before that happened I never understood the potential severity and use for anti-depressants either. Anti-depressants aren't just about turning off maudlin thoughts of missing your dead turtle.

      • Re:Today's Philosphical question... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by the_duke_of_hazzard (603473) on Wednesday August 23 2006, @04:59AM (#15960963)
        If you'd ever been depressed, you'd know the answer to that.

    • Re:Today's Philosphical question... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by kripkenstein (913150) on Wednesday August 23 2006, @04:09AM (#15960857)
      "If you're incapable of depression, and you're always happy, how do you know if you really are happy?"

      You find that you spend less time planning your suicide than you used to.

  • May not generalize to humans (Score:5, Funny)

    by Beryllium Sphere(tm) (193358) on Wednesday August 23 2006, @02:35AM (#15960633) Homepage Journal
    Deactivate a mouse's TREK-1 and it acts like it's on antidepressants.

    Take my Trek away from me and I get depressed.

  • Don't get excited yet (Score:5, Informative)

    by Heir Of The Mess (939658) on Wednesday August 23 2006, @02:45AM (#15960657) Homepage
    TREK-1 has an important role in neuroprotection against epilepsy and brain and spinal chord ischemia. So there are some very adverse side effects to this.

    The article seems very light. There's lots of interesting stuff to be found if you google for "trek-1 gene".

  • Exciting Applications! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Selanit (192811) on Wednesday August 23 2006, @02:46AM (#15960659)
    Hey, maybe the scientists can use this to their advantage. Something like this:

    PETA spokesman: You're abusing animals in your lab, you fiend.

    Scientist: But they're happy!

    PETA spokesman: How can they be happy with you jabbing them with needles every half hour? Among OTHER things.

    Scientist: Easy - they're permanently cheerful, no matter what we do to 'em. We engineered 'em that way.

    PETA spokesman: >.

  • It's a start (Score:5, Funny)

    by starling (26204) <strayling20@gmail.com> on Wednesday August 23 2006, @03:10AM (#15960707)
    If they can breed a Goth that's permanently cheerful *then* I'll be impressed.

    • Re:How the hell... (Score:5, Funny)

      by Frogbert (589961) <frogbert.gmail@com> on Wednesday August 23 2006, @02:36AM (#15960635)
      There toning it down for the kids. By "Happy" they mean the mice are randy.

    • Re:How the hell... (Score:5, Informative)

      by pesho (843750) on Wednesday August 23 2006, @03:00AM (#15960690)
      One way is the 'forced swim test'. They put the mouse in a water tank from which it can't escape. The animal will normaly swim around trying to find a way out. If it is depressed it will tend to give up on swiming and spend long periods of time without moving. Another way is the 'tail suspension test'. It is prety much the same thing. The mouse is suspended on its tail. If it is depressed it won't give a shit about life and will just hang there. Give it some antidepresenats and it will move and try to escape a lot more actively.

      • Re:How the hell... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by kripkenstein (913150) on Wednesday August 23 2006, @04:06AM (#15960849)
        Of course, one could argue with any one model of depression in animals. That is why the article mentions that they tested it in 5 models of animal depression. Even more, they showed increased efficacy of seratonin in their brains (which we know can reduce depression in humans), and in addition showed lower corticosterone levels under duress (a common measure of stress in humans and animals), which is indicative of lack of depression in humans (and a good thing in general).

        So, yes, you can argue with any one model, but, precisely because of such arguments, articles (in Nature at least) prepare for them in advance - really, as much as is possible. If someone doesn't agree to results like this, then perhaps he/she just have a problem with the whole model of using animals to test human conditions; but this model has been proven time and again in giving eventual benefit to research on humans.

        Of course, this result should be replicated by outside labs before we accept it. But it sounds like good research so far.

    • Re:Makes you not care? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Eivind Eklund (5161) on Wednesday August 23 2006, @03:32AM (#15960761) Journal
      If you wonder, find out... The answer is somewhat complex.

      To give you at least some help: Part of the reason for the apathy of the anti-depressant crowd is that the most common anti-depressants are serotonin boosters (SSRIs), and serotonin is an inhibitory neurotransmitter. Now, certain other antidepressants (e.g, MAOIs) work by boosting other neurotransmitters, and can handle depression without apparently leading to the kind of apathy/nonchalance you're talking about.

      With the usual Slashdot disclaimer: I am not a psychiatrist.

      Eivind.

    • Re:Makes you not care? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by edunbar93 (141167) on Wednesday August 23 2006, @03:35AM (#15960766)
      Spoken like someone who's never had a problem with depression.

      Personally, I think that's a small sacrifice to keep from wanting to KILL YOURSELF!

      When someone's clinically depressed, the whole world is in shades of grey to them. Things that would normally bring joy are met at best with indifference and anger at worst. Interest in eating and having sex wanes. Social activities and obligations are ignored, along with housework. They feel listless and sleep more.

      Then there's the extreme sadness and suicidal tendencies.

      Personally, I wouldn't mind not caring for the 4 months out of the year that I'm depressed.

    • Re:Makes you not care? (Score:5, Informative)

      by LockeOnLogic (723968) on Wednesday August 23 2006, @04:27AM (#15960905)
      People on anti-depressants are not "non-challant" about everything so long as they take their pills. This statement shows a profound misunderstanding of what modern anti-depressents are like. As someone who been taking anti-depressents for most of my life (very long family history of it, suicides everywhere on my family tree), I would like to point out that these are not happy pills, mothers little helpers that makes you stop caring about the world. This is a common belief and one that is simply not true. I feel a full range of emotions like any other person, and the emotional side effects aside from the alteration of the depression is quite small. In fact, I feel MORE emotion that I would off my medication becuase depression tends to overpower other emotions. This was not as true with older varieties of anti-depressents, but the modern SSRI's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSRI [wikipedia.org] have a minimal inhibitive effect on the range, duration, and power of my negative emotions aside from depression. Even more, I actually CAN get depressed even with the medications if the circumstances of my life dictate it. The ending of a relationship, loss of a loved one or whatever else might get a normal person depressed have the same effect on me. However, it is now short term and recoverable, that is, normal.

      Society should think of modern anti-depressents as you would a prosthetic for a person born without a leg. Although unnatural, it corrects a problem, bringing sufferers closer to "normal". Of course, becuase you cannot SEE my handicap, people assume that it is not there, and my condition is a character flaw or choice. This is not true, I have no control over it just as a schizophrenic has no choice in the perception of their hallucinations. Not everyone who is depressed needs these aids, but for sufferers of long term, chronic depression these medications are lifesavers, quite literally. Research and discoveries like those in the article bolster my confidence that future treatments will bring me even closer to normal.

      I am surpremely grateful that I live in the age of modern psychopharmacology, I am quite positive that I would not be here if it did not exist.

      • Re:What about appropriate depression ? (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Moraelin (679338) on Wednesday August 23 2006, @03:39AM (#15960777) Journal
        Less loss of work time and more productivity. What else is there to strive for?


        It may actually work the other way around.

        See, the brain (and not only in humans) is nicely tuned to keep needing the next thing to be happy about. Whenever you have some achievement (even small ones, like getting food when you're hungry) the brain gives itself a "yay, I'm happy" chemical signal, but that's followed immediately by releasing the "antidote" to that signal, to get back to the baseline. So you'll need the next achievement for your next moment of joy.

        It's what keeps humans and all animals active. It's why your cat plays and thus trains its reflexes daily, instead of vegetating in a corner, still happy that it played last month.

        In human society it's also a very important factor in why, for example, consumerism is alive and kicking, and keeping the capitalist economy going well past the point where just the needs are covered. People keep having these illusions like "man, I would be soo happy if I had that one more gadget/shirt/etc", and they do get happy about it... for a very brief time. Then they need their next achievement. And in turn, getting caught in the consumerism race also keeps them in the rat race at work, and taking shit they otherwise wouldn't put up with.

        You can see in "video game addiction" cases what happens when people can stay continuously happy. It's not really physiological addiction, but good games give people small rewards often, which triggers the "yay, I'm happy" signal in the brain. There's always one more quest you finished, one more recipe you learned, one more item that you sold at the auction house (or IRL on eBay), one more boss you defeated, one more equipment piece you found, etc. So some people, which are kept happy enough by that, end up not doing anything else. You can see cases going all the way to playing for a month and then dropping dead.

        So my take is that if someone actually produced genetically-engineered humans which are permanently happy, those humans would be even worse. They wouldn't even need video games to stay happy, so they probably wouldn't bother even with that. If you can be perfectly happy sitting on the couch watching the wall, you don't need to do anything else. You don't even need to buy a TV. Nor take shit from a PHB and do overtime to afford a huge plasma TV and a fashionable house in the suburbs. You get the idea.

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