Growing Insulin 251
McLuhanesque writes "The Globe and Mail reports that a Calgary biotech firm has developed a process to turn genetically modified safflower oil into human insulin in commercial quantities. The process reduces capital costs by 70% and product cost by 40%. 'SemBioSys says it can make more than one kilogram of human insulin per acre of safflower production. That amount could treat 2,500 diabetic patients for one year and, in turn, meet the world's total projected insulin demand in 2010 with less than 16,000 acres of safflower production.'"
That's great and all, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:That's great and all, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
I understand that a cure is viewed as better than a treatment, but you can't just pick to find a cure, or pick to find a treatment. Reducing the costs of producing human insulin, and at the same time gaining additional scientific knowledge should be of great use. Who knows, perhaps a cure to type I diabetes is now one step closer?
Re:That's great and all, but... (Score:2, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:That's great and all, but... (Score:2, Insightful)
My out of pocket costs are probably 4x or 5x of what I used to pay '98. In fact, I'm using cheaper insulin now, because I'm not using insulin pens anymore.
After all, do you really think that the out of pockets costs will drop because the supply of insulin has gotten much cheaper?
- YAIDP (Yet Another Insulin Dependent Person).
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:That's great and all, but... (Score:4, Informative)
Retail: a bottle of insulin is $20. That lasts me approximately 14 days
In those 14 days I will use between 70 and 140 test strips, which cost about $.50 a piece. So lets say $50.
Also - in those 14 days I will use 5 sets of supplies for my insulin pump. At $17 a pop, that's $85
Out of that total $155, the insulin is only 13% of the cost. Granted the insurance company doesnt pay retail for anything, and I absorb a small fraction of the cost through deductibles, but it will still end up only being 13% of the cost of the daily supplies.
And let's not talk about the $5,000 insulin pump that only works for 4 years, or all the doctors visits, blood work, ER visits if I become sick......
A cure for Type 1 diabetes would save the insurance companies a fair amount of money in the mid-term, and extremely large amounts of money in the long term.
So start a non-profit (Score:2)
Actually there are vitamins which work right now, the problem is, the drug companies do not like the supplement companies. Ultimately however, insulin production and diabetes may already be cured as we speak, the problem is, even if it is cured, none of us have access to the treatment. It is possible to regenerate beta cells. It is also p
Re:So start a non-profit (Score:3, Informative)
The medical field is rife with a lot of crackpots claiming their miracle cure is being repressed by the drug industry, especially for long-term medical problems like diabetes. While the drug industry is cut throat, almost all of these "vitamin cures" are expensive snake
Re:That's great and all, but... (Score:3, Informative)
The pharmacutical companies don't control all medical research. The NIH (National Institutes of Health) spent ~$28 BILLION last year funding medical research. That's your tax dollars at work. Most of the money went to University researchers or researchers at the NIH campus itself to do medical research for the public good.
Speaking as one of those researchers, we try to do the best reasearch possible, and then we publish our results in peer-reviewed journals, where anyone,
Re:That's great and all, but... (Score:2)
I understand that a cure is viewed as better than a treatment, but you can't just pick to find a cure, or pick to find a treatment.
To some degree what you're saying is true. But that doesn't mean that there aren't directions that are far more likely to lead to a cure, and other directions that are far more likely to lead to better treatments. I think it's pretty obvious that research on producing insulin cheaper is far more likely to produce a better treatment, and pretty unlikely to lead to a cure.
Who kn
Cures already available (Score:5, Insightful)
I understand that each group of researchers will have their own specialisations, and that not everyone COULD work on a cure, even if there was no need for improved/cheaper insulin (which there is). I heartily agree with the grandparent poster though; insulin is a poor substitute for a normal life, and a cure would be MUCH better, so it would be nice to see the main focus going on that. The medical fees that entire nations pay for insulin, needles, swabs, glucometers, diagnostics strips, tablets, etc. -- often four or more of most of these things per day, per patient, at £0.50 per diagnostic strip alone, must make up a pretty large profit for medical companies. I really don't mean to accuse people of being motivated by money, but I do often wonder if this doesn't sometimes subtly cloud their sense of what's really best for the sufferers.
Re:Cures already available (Score:2)
Islet cell transplants are interesting: No, they don't require aborted fetus cells, but stem cells cultured from miscarriages could be the source of stem cells for one of the most promising approaches. Stem cells are not rejected by the body: I haven't seen anything about thi
Re:That's great and all, but... (Score:3, Informative)
Diabetes is also several different diseases: Type 2 diabetics usually have insulin resistance, and Type 1 diabetics usually have a comp
Re:That's great and all, but... (Score:2)
Re:That's great and all, but... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:That's great and all, but... (Score:2)
Re:That's great and all, but... (Score:3, Informative)
It would have been nice to know which country you are talking about. The USA seems to be the 'default' country on /. (because of # of US participants), but your comment doesn't make sense for the US; we have an all-volunteer military, so everyone is 'exempt' from serving in the military.
Colorblind people are allowed to serve in the US military. My brother-in-law joined the Marines, hoping for a useful skill such a
Re:That's great and all, but... (Score:2)
*Then* we can complain about getting people off insulin, and re-growing pancreatic cells from stem cells, and a whole bunch of other things that will cure this disease.
Re:That's great and all, but... (Score:2)
Re:That's great and all, but... (Score:2)
Cool! Do you have the SDK? Do I need to install a mod-chip? Does it run Linux? Insulin-resistance is futile!
Re:That's great and all, but... (Score:2, Informative)
His monthly insulin bill is around 600 dollars a month (total medication is ~1500, insurance is another ~900). While I'm sure that he would also l
Re:That's great and all, but... (Score:2)
Re:That's great and all, but... (Score:2)
Re:That's great and all, but... (Score:2)
I assume you were just kidding (organ transplants are very risky business), but in all seriousness, I don't see how this would work.
Type 1 Diabetes is an auto-immune disease. The immune system thinks the Pancreas' beta cells (the part of the pancreas that produce insulin) are evil and it destroys them. Not sure why they think the same won't happen to the new pancreas and it's beta cells destroyed.
I am definitely not a doctor
Re:That's great and all, but... (Score:2)
Re:George Bush is Workin' Hard For You (Score:2)
Stem Cell research will not cure you (Score:2)
Yes I think we should be spending a fortune on it, yes I do think it will solve most of our problems and cure most of our diseases in the long term. The problem we face is lasting long enough as a species to researc
flamebaiter is Workin' Hard For You (Score:3, Insightful)
Mods, how the hell did that rate an "insightful"? Its off topic at best, and more probably flamebait. So I'm going to flame it, especially since I have relatives that are directly affected by the research in question and the disease in the topic (Diabetes).
Stop with t
Re:flamebaiter is Workin' Hard For You (Score:3, Informative)
But put the Fed money to work where it shows the most promise - and that most definitely is *not* embryonic stem cells. So stop using stem cells as a political football.
Bush is doing the right thing with his veto. Its questionable on the reasons he is putting forth, but good in the end results. Like a stopped clock, his hands this time are aligning with the right things. Let some
Re:Not Me! (Score:2)
So, GM foods are evil?.. (Score:2)
Your opposition to genetically modified foods is about as rational, as George Bush's infamouse dislike for using stem-cells derived from embrios in research.
I'm for genetic modification, but lets be rational (Score:2)
Re:I'm for genetic modification, but lets be ratio (Score:2)
This adds whole new meaning to: Terror Alert Level ORANGE
could someone do back-of-envelope calculation (Score:5, Funny)
Re:could someone do back-of-envelope calculation (Score:2, Insightful)
What's making them become diabetic is:
Seriously, if you start checking the ingredients in the food you buy, you'll notice that everything has sugar in it. Even things that should not. This article [www.cbc.ca] sums it up nicely.
Genetically engineered sugar. (Score:2)
Genetically engineered food, is it safe? I wouldnt be surprised if it caused diabetes. My advice, don't eat so much corn. If you must deal with corn, use ethanol.
Re:could someone do back-of-envelope calculation (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:could someone do back-of-envelope calculation (Score:5, Informative)
There are two main types of diabetes (with a couple of oddball variants that are rare, diabetes mellitus describes the final symptom of elevated bloodsugar, there are a few possible root causes of that symptom, which determine the type). Type I is known as insulin-dependent or juvenile diabetes (because it is rarely diagnosed past the age of 20). It is caused by the immune system attacking the beta cells of the pancreas. Eventually all beta cells die and the body can no longer produce any insulin, so it must be provided from an external source. Type I is generally considered to be the "severe" form of diabetes because of this fact. Prior to the discovery of insulin, average life expectancy after diagnosis was 1-2 years, and the disease killed younger children faster than teenagers. Oh, it was a rather slow, painful, and unpleasant death too. Essentially no matter how much you ate and drank, your body would slowly dehydrate and starve.
Type II is usually referred to simply as adult-onset diabetes, because until recently, it has been unheard of for young people to develop it. (A high prevalence of childhood obesity is changing this). In Type II diabetes, the body does produce insulin, but for various reasons it is not enough, whether it is due to reduced capacity or increased demands beyond normal capacity, or a combination of both. Most of the time, once diagnosed, Type II diabetes can be managed solely with oral medication which increases the body's sensitivity to the insulin it does produce, and in many cases controlled solely with diet and exercise. (Losing weight can often cause Type II diabetes to disappear.) It is extremely rare for Type II to require external insulin rejections. Interestingly enough, while Type II is less "severe", this very fact makes it far more dangerous because it frequently goes undiagnosed for long periods of time, and the elevated bloodsugars do damage to various parts of the body.
This is definately an interesting development, but how will this company deal with patented "designer" insulins such as Lantus (from Aventis Pharmaceutical, a special "peakless" insulin used to provide a long-acting baseline insulin dose), and Novolog/Humalog, two "extremely rapid acting" insulins that actually take effect FASTER than injecting normal human insulin. FYI, "human insulin" is insulin produced by genetically engineered bacteria that is identical to human insulin, it is NOT extracted from humans, unlike pork and beef insulins which were extracted from the pancreases of pigs and cows respectively. While I'm sure their technology will work with Lantus and Humalog/Novolog, I don't know how the companies that produce the above three will react to this. Most likely they'll license the technology from this new company (if it works) or vice versa... I hope so.
Mod parent up (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Mod parent up (Score:2)
Re:could someone do back-of-envelope calculation (Score:3, Interesting)
This "childhood obesity" could very well be affected by the high consumption of HFCS-sweetened sodas and food products, right?
Just TRY finding a soda that doesn't contain it in the US - the only ones I've found are the Italian fruit sodas at Target. And I've found only one brand of bread that's baked sans HFCS
Re:could someone do back-of-envelope calculation (Score:2)
Bake your own.
Re:could someone do back-of-envelope calculation (Score:3, Informative)
Wait till you try the genetically engineered corn (Score:2)
Re:unbelievable isn't it? (Score:2)
A couple quick pieces of advice for you:
- Read up on the Glycemic Index [amazon.com]. It will give you a much more comprehensive understanding of your diet and how different foods will affect you. Note, it is not just sugar, it is most carbs. On that note, once you figure it out, you can open up your diet while still maintaining your glucose levels.
- Exercise is almost as important as your diet. In many ways, more important. 30-60 minutes of fast walking or me
Exactly (Score:2)
Let's just say the food is dirty. Consume it at your own risk, it's like with tabacco.
Positively fantastic news (Score:5, Insightful)
For there to be a light at the end of this proverbial tunnel is amazing news. Let's hope that this continues to be researched, tried and brought to the general population with as little convolusion from outside sources as possible.
Sadly, medicine is still business first and foremost. Some drug company will make a mint from this. Let's hope that someone somewhere has a conscience that won't allow them to make this treatment as financially restrictive as most everything else is.
Re:Positively fantastic news (Score:2, Informative)
Not forgetting the most recent articles posted about the links to Alzheimers [upi.com]
Re:Positively fantastic news (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Positively fantastic news (Score:2)
You mean in 16 years when the patent expires and anyone can do it, right?
Most likely they'll charge the exact same as everyone else (ie, at least as much as the insurance companies will pay) and not one cent less. (And people whine that the government distorts the market...)
Re:Positively fantastic news (Score:2)
Then why would anyone buy it from them? They're a new company, and while the product is chemically identical to the products from established companies, it's made in a new way, with the possibility of unforeseen new types of trace contaminants, et cetera.
No one is going to change suppliers from the established companies to the new company unless they have a reason, and the only possible reason this new company can give them -- since the product i
Re:Positively fantastic news (Score:2)
Huh? Nobody goes out and just buys a drug for the hell of it, not legally anyway. Doctors prescribe drug X to a patient. Lots of doctors don't even care what X costs to the patient, maybe it's the only drug that will do, or maybe they just assume the patient has insurance that will
Re:Positively fantastic news (Score:2)
Unless of course it bypasses regulatory hurdles allowing drug manufacturers to drop the older, lower profit method and/or they collude to use the new method as an excuse to raise prices.
Re:Positively fantastic news (Score:3, Informative)
Is this a joke? (Score:2)
I'm less worried about the drug companies (Score:2)
Drug companies will use this if their costs are lower and the chance for profit remains the same. I do have a question, why shouldn't the drug companies make money from something they work to create?
If it was so damn important for a government to step in a take the work of a private
Re:Positively fantastic news (Score:2, Insightful)
"Sadly"? I don't think so -- the profit motive has done more to advance medical science than altruism ever has. (Not to knock altruism, though. I say, let's get as much as we can out of both of 'em!)
Tollerance Build up (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Tollerance Build up (Score:5, Interesting)
Take a look at the research being done on Retinol binding proteins. Apparently, there's some kind of relationship between RBP's and insulin resistance.
Temkin
Let me be the first.. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Let me be the first.. (Score:2)
There's a "day of the triffids" joke in there somewhere...
Re:Let me be the first.. (Score:2)
In other news... (Score:4, Insightful)
In other news, pharmacutical companies are beginning to persuade food companies to put MORE SUGAR into foods....
Re:In other news... (Score:2)
Re:In other news... (Score:2)
Healthy food would always be profitable if people cared enough.
Interestingly, if people took responsibility and didn't buy unhealthy food, general health and availability of
Obesity is caused by bad genes says Parent poster (Score:2)
Now if they could only... (Score:5, Funny)
Sucks (Score:2, Insightful)
HFCS (Score:3, Insightful)
Bring on the High-Fructose Corn Syrup [newstarget.com]. Drink more Dew. Drink more Sprite. Obey your thirst. Feed your kids drinks with less than 100% fruit juice.
Tongue in cheak of course.
Almost reminds you of the idea people have with introducing insects into non-native environments and the bug turns out to be hostile so they introduce a second bug to kill the first, but which turns out to be worse than the first.
Re:HFCS (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:HFCS (Score:2)
8. Consumers fresh off the previous ingredient used to lace the drink, get hooked on zero calories.
Zero calorie drinks have neither sugar nor high-fructose corn syrup for sweeteners.
High Fructose Corn Syrup, demon of the far left. (Score:2)
Do you actually have any evidence that HFCS is directly causing obesity, and not ju
Re:HFCS (Score:2)
Why should they? People need to take responsibility for themselves and their choices.
If you guzzle sugar-laden crap - whether through lack of self-restraint or ignorance, that's on you, not on the people that make the stuff.
Re:HFCS (Score:2)
Cross contamination (Score:3, Interesting)
Certainly like GM food, GM plant for medicine production is a great advancement. I just worry about these things getting into the wild, since the GM companies have had such a devil may care attitude in the past. Despite the statement of work for the public good, profits never seem to be cut in a effort to make the product safer, or the distribution widespread.
Knowing the drug companies . . . (Score:4, Insightful)
And the consumer price will be increased by 20%.
Re:Knowing the drug companies . . . (Score:2, Interesting)
Not really-- according to TFA, the whole point of this new production process is that, being cheaper, it'll enable the manufacturers to sell it at prices below current retail, thus giving them a competitive advantage. If they did what you're suggesting, what would be the incentive for people to buy their more-expensive insulin over the varieties currently on the market?
Knee-jerk rants about wicked capitalists and heartless pharmaceuticals aside, this seems li
Re:Knowing the drug companies . . . (Score:4, Interesting)
The insulin market is highly competitive. There's also many varities of insulin. If this one can't make a splash on price or on some other quality, it'll go nowhere.
As much as I dislike the AMA-FDA/Congress-Insurance-Pharma cartel, in this instance it's not all that accurate.
what about generic insulin? (Score:5, Interesting)
Check out joinleenow.org - they need $11 million (they have $9 million so far) to test a possible treatment and cure using BCG, which I think costs $11 a vial. It amazes me how little support they're getting (maby because it could cure/treat diabetes on the cheap?). So far they have reversed 90% of type 1 diabetic mice.
How can this work? (Score:2)
Presumably Eli Lilly extracts insulin from the E. Coli vats on a fairly quick time scale.
So how is the insulin in these safflower plants supposed to survive a growing season outdoors?
I'll let someone else make the "well, they're in Canada" joke.
Re:How can this work? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:How can this work? (Score:2)
s/"in the end"/"until the end" (Score:2)
Scientifically ok, economically, very unlikely (Score:3, Interesting)
Decreases product cost by 40%? (Score:2)
Re:Decreases product cost by 40%? (Score:2)
If their cost decreases by 40% and their price doesn't move, their profit goes up by a number that depends on how much profit they're making on it at the moment, only getting a 40% increase in profit if their current price is 200% of their cost.
More likely, their cost will drop by 40%, and their price will drop by... say 15%, maybe 20%. Their profits still go up, but the consumer gets their insulin for less, and the competitors are at a 15%, 20% price disadvantage, ie the company gets more m
Treating the Symptom (Score:2, Interesting)
The increase in diabetes has been linked to obesity. It frustrates me that we put so much research and money into treating the symptoms and not the source. I admit it seems like a hard sell to convince people to become healthier, but I believe if there was a large ad campaign, discounts for he
Re:*Cough* (Score:3, Funny)
Re:*Cough* (Score:3, Funny)
Re:This isnt a breakthrough, it's genetic engineer (Score:3, Insightful)
but lets please not mix plants and animals, it's obviously not right.
There's no such thing as a "plant gene" or an "animal gene". It's like saying that taking a spring from a car and putting it in a bicycle makes the bicycle somehow car-like. Sure, if you took an entire engine along with a transmission and fastened it onto a bike that might make the bicycle "car-like", but that's not what we're talking about here. Genes are just building blocks, and assigning plantness or animalness to them doesn't make
Re:You are wrong (Score:3, Insightful)
and the genes in a plant are VASTLY VASTLY different from the genes in a human.
Some of them are, some of them aren't. We still share MANY of the same genes with plants. Just like a car is vastly different from a bicycle, both have rubber tires. In a very similar sense both cars and bicycles share a common "ancestor", just like plants and humans.
tell me how the hell you can believe a human shares genes with a plant
Evolution? You don't have to simply believe it, it's a scientifically proven fact that huma
Re:You are wrong (Score:4, Informative)
Re:You are wrong (Score:4, Funny)
That's just sick !
Save the bananas !
Re:You are wrong (Score:2)
Life on Earth is fundamentally the same. All of it. Everywhere. In a very real sense, we all share the same basic blueprint and the same drive to serve as hosts for the reproduction of DNA.
But I'm at work so I'll just leave you with this link and its text.
Re: What is the difference between an animals DNA and a plants DNA? [madsci.org]
Re:This isnt a breakthrough, it's genetic engineer (Score:2)
It isn't obvious to me. I'm no geneticist, so please do correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't know that there's any stark dividing line between what is a "plant" gene and what is an "animal" gene. From my understanding, bunches of my genetic code is actually viral in origin - neither plant NOR animal, nor, strictly speaking, even alive.
If you're saying it's obviously wrong from
Re:This isnt a breakthrough, it's genetic engineer (Score:2)
And why is it right? It may be obvious to you, but please spell it out to me. It's like saying that "homosexualtiy is obviously not right" - it means nothing except "I don't like it, and I feel self-righteous about that".
Re:This isnt a breakthrough, it's genetic engineer (Score:4, Funny)
It's in Leviticus: "A restriction enzyme that touches a plant chromosome shall not touch an animal chromosome, lest there be an abomination." You can't argue with a commandment like that. Why do you hate G-d?
The article is scant on details (Score:5, Interesting)
Compared to a big churning vat of E. Coli, their food, and their waste products, it's easier to use something like an impeller or centrifuge to separate out bulk quantities of insulin-laced oil from a plant, and then purify it from there.
Also, those same fermenters that are growing insulin currently are also a great breeding ground for other bacteria, molds, and yeasts in the environment. I'm given to understand that keeping unwanted organisms out of the vats is part of what makes the process difficult and expensive. A single bacterium or wild yeast spore that gets into a fermenter can ruin the whole batch.
The macroscopic plants are a much more robust system - they can still get sick of course, but it's fairly easy to keep plants healthy. And even given that you can't spray these plants willy-nilly with pesticides, organic farmers get pretty good yields on most products with just natural controls.
ha ha yes (Score:2)
But you mention:
the chemistry involved in converting oils harvested from a plant into polypeptide chains
I don't there is any such chemistry. I don't think the most brilliant chemist could synthesize a protein from an oil. Where would he get all the nitrogen atoms, for example?