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Bullying Affects Social Status?
Posted by
Zonk
on Sat Feb 11, 2006 02:36 PM
from the don't-want-another-swirly dept.
from the don't-want-another-swirly dept.
An anonymous reader wrote to mention a ScienceDaily article about the social status effects of bullying on mice and men. From the article: "The results reveal neural mechanisms by which social learning is shaped by psychosocial experience and how antidepressants act in this particular brain circuit. They also suggest new strategies for treating mood disorders such as depression, social phobia and post-traumatic stress disorder, in which social withdrawal is a prominent symptom ... He and his colleagues also discovered that social defeat triggered an upheaval in gene expression in the target area of the circuit, the nucleus accumbens, located deep in the front part of the brain -- 309 genes increased in expression while 17 decreased."
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Depressed Hamsters Help Researchers 172 comments
Ant wrote to mention an ABC News article indicating that hampsters feel the same effects during the winter months as humans do. Known as Seasonal Affective Disorder (S.A.D.), winter-related depression affects up to 20 percent of Americans. From the article: "For example, if the animals spend more time hovering near the walls of their containers, rather than at the center, it's believed they feel more anxious. If they decline to slurp up tempting offers of sugar water, scientists take it as a sign of depression. Another test involves placing the animals in water and seeing if they swim or simply give up and float. Hamsters don't sink apparently, but float in water. 'The sooner they give up in the water, the more depressed they are,' Pyter said. 'If you give them an antidepressant they don't give up as quickly.'"
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news for nerds (Score:5, Funny)
False premise (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:False premise (Score:5, Interesting)
As the great philosopher Van Pelt said:
"I love mankind, it's people I can't stand."
The "dogs" among the apes will never understand the "cats," however, even though they rely on them to keep watch over the tribe through the night, lest they all get eaten by lions while they sleep.
And what the lions are doing eating in their sleep I'll never know.
KFG
Parent
Re:False premise (Score:5, Funny)
Or this one, from earlier:
Parent
Re:False premise (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:False premise (Score:5, Interesting)
You tell it, brother!!
You don't have to be outgoing type-A to be mentally healthy... or even what society considers mentally healthy to do well in this world. I recently heard an NPR story about how they've started to screen high school students with a questionnaire so that they can medicate people before they go off and kill themselves... but when I heard the 'warning signs' that they were looking for, I realized that they would have flagged me when I was in high school, and they would have tried to persuade my parents to medicate me.
Now my kids are in pre-school, and the teachers are concerned because they don't socialize well and have poor coordination... yeah my four year old reads at a first grade level... but they just see that as a sign of parents pushing too hard (we don't push him at all by the way, he's just a very curious kid). They want us to stop teaching him reading and math and try to push him more into sports and socializing... But I say, so what if he wants to be nerdy.. let him be nerdy.
Parent
Re:False premise (Score:4, Insightful)
or... I could just let my kids grow up to be who they are rather than forcing them do do things that don't fit in their character. My extended family is full of introverts who would rather be alone than the center of attention. There is nothing wrong with being introverted. Quoth Socrates: "Know Thyself"
You can force your kids to 'pad their stats' if you want... and you'll probably teach them to focus on their inadequacies rather than their strengths. My kids will know who they are, and what they like to do.... and they'll be happier, more well-adjusted adults as a result.
Parent
Re:False premise (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
The cure for bullying? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The cure for bullying? (Score:5, Insightful)
I was bullied incessantly in elementary school and junior high, and acted, well, pretty much like the "normal" mice. In high school, this changed, but it wasn't because of a knockout gene. It was because I learned to fight back -- a knockout punch instead of a gene, you might say. We don't need more and better antidepressants. We need more instructors who know how to take scared, depressed geeks and turn them into fighters. And more bullies lying bleeding in school hallways spitting out their own teeth.
Parent
No, we need just and enforceable laws (Score:5, Insightful)
Violence that begets violence never ends. Violence that results in financial and social penalties has a limited life span.
Parent
Re:No, we need just and enforceable laws (Score:4, Insightful)
"If the motive is good, and there are no other possibilities, then seen most deeply it (violence) is nonviolence, because its aim is to help others."
---Dalai Lama
It's been proven over and over that standing up to a bully will not only not "beget violence", but will qucikly end the escalation of violence which most bullies use. My own experiene with bullying began when I moved to North America in grade 5. In my home country I was always popular, but after moving I became the new-kid-who-can't-even-speak-english-well. Three bullies picked on me for exactly one week, at which point I had enough. I flipped one of my antagonists on his ass and broke another ones nose, while the third just stood there and watched in shock. After which they all ran away.
Ofcourse, I got suspended for a couple of days, but I never had problems with bullying again.
Parent
Maybe I'm just cynical... (Score:4, Insightful)
On a side note, if we can treat true depression and PTSD with a gene therapy, GREAT! It will allow Veterans who went through a horrible situation to undo the psych damage and return to a normal life. Same with clinical depression. Remove the behavioral restrictions and open that person up again. I see a much happier world if this actually comes to pass!
Re:Maybe I'm just cynical... (Score:4, Insightful)
Um... the same thing can often apply with regards to depression, treating the cause rather than the sympton. God knows I went through enough of that when I was a kid. Gee whiz, I need to treat this poor little girl for depression. Wait, could it be her neglectful and abusive parents who make her depressed? Nah, that's pretty unlikely. Let's give her anti-depressants instead.
Clicnical depression - depression without an actual cause - is a separate problem, usually caused by a chemical imbalance. But many cases of depression are symptoms of other problems, and treating the person for depression rather than helping them with said problems isn't going to be very effective. Unfortunately, that's the approach most doctors take. (And a cynical person might note that since their problems aren't going away the doctor continues to make money for treating them.)
Parent
Cultural impacts of antidepressants (Score:5, Interesting)
Mod Aticle: -1 Obvious (Score:4, Funny)
I think this crowd knows very well the effects of bullying.
They studied the wrong mice... (Score:5, Insightful)
Bullying affects Politics? (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm not saying Republicans are bullies and Democrats are victims or anything, but there sure seem to be a lot of people who just don't "get" the need for judicial oversight, fair representation in court or congress, support for the poor, or the concept of a truly open marketplace.
Re:Bullying affects Politics? (Score:3, Insightful)
I'd also argue just the opposite. Conservatives appeal more than anything to fear: fear of racial and ethnic out-groups, fear of crime, fear of terrorism, fear of things that go bump in the night. They are quick to choose safety in the "safety vs. liberty" debate, even when the tradeoff itself is an illusion. Their prediliction for harsh and preemptive treatment of everyone they percieve as threats masquerades as strength, when in
The key to social success in not to care... (Score:3, Insightful)
It is our attachment to what others think (social status) that causes our unhappiness, shame and embarrassment. So if it doesn't exist then there's nothing to be attached to and nothing to be fearful of. Once I came to deeply realize this I was able to exploit it (OK, it is not what the Buddha had in mind) and achieve a much elevated social status. Even though I don't care about it, it does make my life a little easier.
So the next time someone put you on the spot just shrug your shoulders and say "what ever".
Bloom's Lucifer Principle (Score:4, Interesting)
Bullying is effective - Basis for coping (Score:5, Interesting)
Effective down to the biological level.
If we can acknowledge that, perhaps we can stop some of the frustrating rhetoric about how the bully is "wrong" and should be "understood".
So, the bully has something tangible to gain from their behavior. (And I mean not just the immediate response but the long term social implications.) Does "correcting" that behavior address the sole root of the problem? Or do we also need to give those bullied effective tools for dealing with the bullying and for maintaining self esteem? Do we let them know just how important it is to maintain that self-esteem? (The article is saying that in failing to do so, they essentially become hard-wired for a different and seemingly less satisfying social role).
The bullying exists within a social context with constraining bounds. The parent of a bullied child can't go an beat the cr*p out of the bully -- not without going to jail. There are already limits that have been decided upon. So, we get to make choices. Can we then also choose and foster, at least to some extent, the types of personalities we wish to see succeed? The type of society we with to propagate?
For my part, if I ever have kids, they will have martial arts training. That part is a simple decision for me. It won't solve every problem, but it will increase the odds considerably that they won't find themselves forced to be pushed around, at least physically. And perhaps a good instructor can help with some of the mental aspects, as well -- I understand that is an essential component of good training.
Um... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:So maybe its the sleep deprivation (Score:3, Informative)
The implications are that this is a neurochemical change because some of the effects of this discouragement can be reversed either by genetic differences or by anti-depressents that probably repress the mech
Re:and computer habits (Score:3, Funny)
No, we use Linux for the same reason a dog licks his balls: because we can. If we were the submissives, we'd be afraid of learning anything new and just stick to the environment we're accustomed to, regardless of the cost.