Voyager 1 Sends Messages from the Edge 287
dalmozian writes "NASA's Latest News about the Voyager 1 is being run on Sci-Tech. The Voyager has passed into the border region at the edge of the solar system and now is sending back information about this never-before-explored area, say scientists at the University of Maryland. From the article: 'Voyager 1 and its twin spacecraft Voyager 2 are now part of a NASA Interstellar Mission to explore the outermost edge of the sun's domain and beyond. Both Voyagers are capable of returning scientific data from a full range of instruments, with adequate electrical power and attitude control propellant to keep operating until 2020.'" The proof of crossing the termination shock was covered earlier this year but now we can see the actual data.
Wow. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Wow. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Wow. (Score:3, Funny)
Those roaming charges must be astronomical!
$65+ million over the next 15 years to put a number on it. My mobile bill doesn't seem so bad anymore.
Re:Wow. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Wow. (Score:5, Insightful)
Where is that "+1 Funny-to-some-but- may-induce-vomiting- in-others" moderation I've always wanted?
Re:Wow. (Score:3, Funny)
With that sort of cost, it would suck to cross the event Verizon and be pulled into a Cingular-ity.
That would certainly Sprint the charges it into the Nextel dimension.
Re:Wow. (Score:5, Funny)
No roaming charges. (Score:2)
Top 10 List (Score:5, Funny)
You might be an astrophysicist if:
10. You only refer to the ninth planet as "Pluto-Charon"
9. You constantly correct everyone that Pluto-Charon is sometimes the eighth planet.
8. You've throttled someone for joking about "The Borg" when you mentioned Wolf 359.
7. You are of the opinion that there are only 8 planets in the solar system.
6. You get booted out of the family reunion for constantly correcting "scientific" conversations.
5. You think that the slowdown of the Pioneer Space Probe is a more important mystery than the Pyramids.
4. The last JPL probe burst at least 10 of your pet theories.
3. You punched Neil Armstrong for "contaminating" the moon with human presence.
2. You passed out before Neil's return punch landed.
And the number one way to tell you're an astrophysicist is...
1. You hold your breath in awe as a probe sends back data on inky blackness.
Thank you, thank you! I'll be here all week! (Ok, ok. So the rest of the gags all sprung out of the number one "joke". Try not to groan too much.)
Re:Top 10 List (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Top 10 List (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Top 10 List (Score:5, Funny)
xxx.lanl.gov? (Score:4, Funny)
I think this is some kind of LANL inside joke - a few years ago, some poor sap got several years in Club Fed for running a Usenet news server inside Lawrence Livermore Labs that included some alt.... groups.
Re:Top 10 List (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Top 10 List (Score:4, Insightful)
The only "mystery" is people being unwilling to understand the sheer number of men it took to build them. No one questions how the Great Wall of China was built, and it is a much more impressive engineering feat than the pyramids.
Re:Top 10 List (Score:2)
The "mystery of the pyramids" if you must know, is how they got the blocks in place. While there's a lot of hyperbole stating that "we can't even lift that much weight today!" (Yes, yes we can.) the truth of the matter is that we just can't figure out how they moved 3 ton blocks without the invention of the wheel.
One of the more interesting suggestions was that they used kites to lift the blocks, but my own feeling is that the historical record is simply incomplete on the technology
Re:Top 10 List (Score:2)
And you are right, the only real "mystery" is the exact methods they used to move the blocks. But there is no doubt that
Re:Top 10 List (Score:3)
People also think we didn't land on the moon, and that the alien autopsy was a government cover-up. Don't let them get under your skin.
Re:Top 10 List (Score:3, Interesting)
So, if t
Re:Top 10 List (Score:4, Interesting)
For being a site for nerds, I'm surprised that only you and I have heard of Dr. Schoch's findings and his subsequent run-ins with prominent Egyptologists.
For those unfamiliar with this man and his claims, go here [robertschoch.net].
Indeed, there is more mystery to the great pyramids than "how did they put such large stones in place?". Check it out.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Top 10 List (Score:2)
Re:Top 10 List (Score:3, Informative)
Actually, they've solved that one. There were a lot of lemon-slice shaped bits lying around the sites that nobody had understood the purpose of, until an archaeologist noted that if you bind them to the sides of the block, they turn the whole thing into a sort of wheel shape. Draw a circle, then a square inside it with the corners touching the rim. Those four round sections you find lyi
Re:Top 10 List (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Top 10 List (Score:3, Interesting)
I believe that that many people think they may have used rollers of some kind if not pulleys.
I find it odd that the Egyptians seemed to have figured out how to work metal, quarry stone, have a system of writing and government but had never seen a
Re:Top 10 List (Score:3, Interesting)
I can't find the original page, but check out the video on exn....
Backyard Stonehenge [www.exn.ca]
Re:Top 10 List (Score:2)
I just wouldn't bet they didn't have the wheel even if we can not find proof of it. It may not have been in wide spread use but I bet they had it.
Re:Top 10 List (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Top 10 List (Score:4, Funny)
Really? I always play as the Zulus, and those bastards always seem to be a few steps ahead of me, tech-wise. You must play on Chieftan.
Okay, but why? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Top 10 List (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Top 10 List (Score:3, Funny)
Forgive my ignorance... (Score:2)
What does this refer to? Do some astronomers think one of the planets is technically a comet or something?
Kuiper belt (Score:2, Informative)
Big stuff in the Kuiper belt (Score:4, Interesting)
Even that is debatable, if the figures on 2003 UB313 [skyandtelescope.com] are anywhere near correct. If it's as shiny as white snow, it's bigger than Pluto. If it's darker, it's bigger still.
...laura
Re:Forgive my ignorance... (Score:3, Informative)
Do a little reading [wikipedia.org] on Pluto, and you should understand. There's a huge debate about the whole "is it a planet, is it not a planet, it's just too small, but then what is a continent", etc.
Re:Forgive my ignorance... (Score:2)
Re:Top 10 List (Score:2)
9. You constantly correct everyone that Pluto-Charon is sometimes the eighth planet.
What, no complaints that they're really just a KBOs [wikipedia.org] and not a planet/moon combination?
Re:Top 10 List (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Top 10 List (Score:5, Informative)
Yeah, some astronomers have suggested that. The problem is, as explained in an adjacent article, the term "planet" has never actually had a proper astronomical definition. There's an IAU panel working now to settle the terminological debate. The current proposal is that "planet" by itself be delisted as an astronomical term. They suggest that a modifier be required before "planet".
Part of the debate is that there's a significant crowd that objects to classification terms that depend on things that are not properties of the object. Or, at least, we should make a strict distinction between terms that describe an object, and terms that describe its relationship to other objects.
This would mean, for example, that the question of whether Luna and Titan are planets or moons would be answered "Yes." They are planets that are orbiting another planet as moons. But others insists that they won't allow something to be both a planet and a moon.
The Earth-Luna pair is an interesting case, because it's somewhat borderline. The common center of gravity is inside the Earth, but close to the surface. Another interesting bit of trivia is that the Lunar path around the Sun is everywhere convex (relative to the Sun) This means that it's more accurate to describe Earth-Luna as a pair that share an orbit around their common primary, rather than one orbiting the other.
But it's all rather silly, because there's no agreed-on definition of "planet". The term just refers to a historical list that is looking less and less relevant with time.
Anyway, stay tuned. Maybe the IAU will settle the matter, at least for those of us who consider their opinion important. Most likely, they'll just discard the term. If they do define it as an isolated term, the result will be a rewriting of the list of planets in the Solar System, as the current list is starting to look somewhat inappropriate.
It's too bad that the universe isn't cooperative enough to fit into a classification scheme that someone invented a few centuries back.
Voyager1 here, I've reached... (Score:3, Funny)
Why are they cancelling funding...? (Score:5, Interesting)
For instance, on the last bit, we expected to see cosmic rays from the termination shock, because shocks accelerate particles. We see them. But they don't appear to be coming from the shock. They're coming from somewhere else that we don't know. We see another set of cosmic rays (with a different spectrum) that we don't understand at all - we just call them "anomalous cosmic rays."
Also, inside the heliosphere, Voyager 1 kept crossing magnetic domains (so a needle on a compass would swing back and forth) periodically. It was expected after the shock that those domain switches would keep happening, much much faster. That didn't happen. In fact, the domain switches stopped. We don't understand why. That doesn't make a lot of sense.
This is our only probe and our only example of a large astronomical shock. It's full of information about how the Universe produces such violent outbursts like supernovae, or gamma ray bursts. We need to keep studying this.
Re:Why are they cancelling funding...? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Why are they cancelling funding...? (Score:3, Insightful)
Also, a lot of it is very technical - although really, it's just demonstrating that we don't understand how wimpy shocks work, much less strong shocks. The anomalous cosmic rays were a good example of "who or
Re:Why are they cancelling funding...? (Score:2)
Re:Why are they cancelling funding...? (Score:5, Insightful)
I also thought it was weird that they had to authorize more spending when the rovers were still working past their estimated useful life. You've got a remote control car on fucking Mars that still works and somebody wants to just switch it off? It reminds me of rich kids who throw out good toys simply because they're bored with them.
I guess the space program has become just like any other corporate entity -- if it can't show glossy, short-term results that look good in
How government works (Score:5, Insightful)
Ya gotta understand how government works. It's not that someone was actively trying to get these projects defunded - it's just that there was no money allocated for that, since no one anticipated they'd still be working. And since all government work has to be charged to specific accounts, someone would have had to redo that, or else the project would have had no way to spend any money.
In other words, this is a matter of bureaucracy, not malignance.
Re:How government works (Score:2)
Re:How government works (Score:2)
Re:How government works (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Why are they cancelling funding...? (Score:3, Insightful)
You make an educated (hopefully) guess as to how long your 'rover on fscking Mars' will be operating.
You figure how much it costs to run the rover and it's support systems for that time.
You (hopefully) add in a percentage increase in case it runs longer.
However, you don't budget double or more of educated guess on duration, just not realistic. So after the expected time frame the money is being used somewhere else and you need to apply for a reallocation to continu
Re:Why are they cancelling funding...? (Score:5, Insightful)
I suspect that some of the issues considered were the numbers of new publications from Voyager data compared to the more recent missions, the status of Voyager's instruments, and the ability of our ground stations to pick up signals from the spacecraft. These issues come up with any older NASA mission and are not unique to Voyager.
I agree that the data from Voyager about the termination shock are important - this was one of the reasons why funding to operate Voyager has continued as long as it has. However, there aren't really a whole lot of data from the termination shock, so a relatively small group of people are studying this data. This means a lower science return for the money spent, at least in terms of the numbers of papers published using new Voyager data. Some of the more recent unmanned spacecraft are also in danger of being cut, and there are still hundreds of scientists around the world working on data from these missions.
While it is true that Voyager is providing a unique data set, the data from this spacecraft are from older instruments that may not be running at their optimal capacity. We have missions with newer, far superior instruments studying other regions of our solar system right now. So which does NASA choose to keep operating - the older spacecraft with limited capabilities, or the newer missions with greater potential for science? When you look at it this way, it doesn't seem quite so bad to cut funding for Voyager, even though the recent discoveries from Voyager have been very newsworthy.
One of the other posts claimed that the termination shock is the only astrophysical shock we can study so we need to keep funding Voyager. It isn't entirely true that the termination shock between our heliosphere and the interstellar wind is the ONLY astrophysical shock we can study. A shock in a space plasma is a shock no matter where it is, and they all are pretty similar. The same physical processes happen in coronal mass ejections from the Sun, at the Earth's bow shock, at the bow shocks of Saturn and Jupiter, and near the heliosphere's termination shock. The main differences between these shocks are the magnetic field strengths and the scale sizes of the shocks. Other than that, the physics is pretty much the same. So NASA has to make a choice - spend the money to support research on all of these other things, or spend it to keep an aging spacecraft going to study just one region of space.
Don't get me wrong - I'm sad to see the Voyager mission winding down. It
would be great to see more discoveries from beyond the boundaries of our solar system. Unfortunately, we can't keep Voyager going forever. We just have to leave some discoveries for future generations.
Re:Why are they cancelling funding...? (Score:4, Insightful)
I suspect that reversing a small fraction of the recent tax cuts for the wealthy could fund Voyager for a long, long time. Or heck, cancel the Alaska "Bridge to Nowhere" [pacificviews.org]. This isn't a matter of "we can't", it's a matter of "we choose not to".
Re:Why are they cancelling funding...? (Score:4, Interesting)
No. Absolutely not. The termination shock is huge. It's something like ~150-200 AU across the heliosphere. We have no idea what the structure of a shock like that is. I said it's the only astrophysical shock we can study, and I stand by that - it's the only astrophysical scale shock we can study. CMEs are far too small.
The fact that we're seeing things we completely didn't expect should tell you that. We do not understand the acceleration of particles at a shock. Coronal mass ejections happen in a few seconds. The termination shock has existed for millions of years. These are very different phenomena.
Cancelling the funding for Voyager right now is simply idiotic. We just found out that a lot of assumptions we had about the termination shock are wrong, and there's another probe heading there right now!, with more instruments! In terms of science per dollar, there is no better bet right now than funding Voyager.
Re:Why are they cancelling funding...? (Score:5, Informative)
Whilst there's lots about the TS that is suprising and exciting and that we don't understand, it is not quite as mysterious as barawn makes out.
As for Voyager 2 - it has a fully working plasma instrument that will give direct measurements of the plasma temperature, density, pressure, flow speed and so on, something we didn't have for V1. Is was the lack of proper plasma measurements that led to some teams claming V1 had crossed the TS and then recanting these claims.
Re:Why are they cancelling funding...? (Score:2)
Wait, I mixed up the ACRs and the TSPs, didn't I? Whoops.
In fact the unrolling of the spectrum of the ACRs was critical evidence that we had reached the TS.
Yup, I think I mixed up the termination shock particles and the anomalous cosmic rays. I thought it was the TSPs that were seen to unroll, but the ACRs didn't, but now I think it's the other way around. It's i
Re:Why are they cancelling funding...? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Why are they cancelling funding...? (Score:2)
Carbon units will now give V'ger the information. (Score:2, Funny)
Too bad they're going to stop listening (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Too bad they're going to stop listening (Score:4, Insightful)
I just don't get it. Multi-billion dollar projects and/or pork just sail through Congress, but something that's actually producing some unique and useful (redundant?) data has to struggle for a few million dollars.
Must...stop...now...rant...coming...on...and...p olitical...aaarrrrgggg!
Re:Too bad they're going to stop listening (Score:5, Insightful)
I am saddened to the extreme that useful, scientifically important research is going to be cancelled because of lack of funds. What makes this even worse is is takes so long to get out there, and these are the only 2 satellites that are close. Another opportunity won't come for decades!
I am sure each research project has their own concerns and ideals, but COME ON! Can't this at least count for something?!? Just a little bit more to count in it's favor?
*sigh*
Now I am depressed.
Re:Too bad they're going to stop listening (Score:5, Funny)
Whoa! I think you need a SERIOUS reality check. Do you realize what one can do with $4.1 MILLION a year? You crazy space cadets only think of yourself, and not the needs of this country:
So before you just jump around throwing away our hard-earned money, please think of those in need.
Re:Too bad they're going to stop listening (Score:2)
FOS (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Too bad they're going to stop listening (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Too bad they're going to stop listening (Score:4, Insightful)
2) Because the government needs to do things that "provide for the common defense," "promote the general welfare" and whatnot, and therefore the government needs to "forcibly confiscate" from somewhere.
3) Given #2, it's hard to feel sorry for somebody when they'll still have $11M/year to live on.
4) You're working under the simplistic idea that there is a perfect link between a person's economic value and their economic compensation. In the era of Carly [hp.com]-style CEOs, the evidence for the premise that wealth is earned isn't as strong as it might be.
Capitalism, yay! (Score:3, Insightful)
No. We live in a democratic society that has decided that some taxation is required in order to fund the public good. We can argue about what constitutes this public good, but we have agreed as a society that you can indeed require that all citizens pay a certain amount to a central authority. If you disagree with this, write your congress-
I can't be the only one (Score:3, Funny)
And I'm not talking to it until it returns Persis Khambatta.
Sadly (Score:5, Funny)
Voyager's message to the extraterrestrials (Score:5, Informative)
To find out more about the message - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_Golden_Recor
Re:Voyager's message to the extraterrestrials (Score:2, Funny)
If any extraterrestrials make unauthorized digital copies of the phonograph record, the RIAA needs some way to send its lawyers!
LAWYERS... IN... SPAAAACE!
Re:Voyager's message to the extraterrestrials (Score:2)
Do we really want any extraterrestrials to see that era, I lived it and try hard to forget it...
That alone may be cause for attack or destruction!
In related news... (Score:4, Funny)
Still Running Huh (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Still Running Huh (Score:2)
Lifetime warrenty (Score:2)
You just have to pay shipping and handling.
Re:Still Running Huh (Score:2)
"particle intensity" (Score:2, Funny)
Just imagine (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Just imagine (Score:3, Funny)
The text of it's message: (Score:4, Funny)
Voyager 1 Sends Messages from the Edge (Score:5, Funny)
Veeger, is that you? (Score:2)
I know why.. I know why (Score:2)
Last image from Voyager... (Score:4, Funny)
[Waits for someone even more geeky than me to point out that Klaa blew up one of the Pioneer probes...]
It belongs in a museum (Score:2)
Mars tourist attractions of the futu
i 0\/\/n0rZ t3h \/()j463r! woooot! (Score:5, Interesting)
I thought about something along those lines a while back. More specifically, with most space probes, what's stopping a malevolant third party from sending their own control transmissions to a probe, and making it do their bidding?
My guess is that they might include some precautions nowadays, but what of probes from a few years back?
Re:i 0\/\/n0rZ t3h \/()j463r! woooot! (Score:5, Informative)
Re:i 0\/\/n0rZ t3h \/()j463r! woooot! (Score:2)
Funny, perhaps. But insightful?!!
The fact that *you* don't have the resources doesn't alter the fact that many foreign governments probably do.
Re:i 0\/\/n0rZ t3h \/()j463r! woooot! (Score:3, Interesting)
And what would be the benefit of pwning a voyager probe?
If some government screwed one of the probes and told everyone how 1337 they are, do you think it would improve their reputation?
Being called "The bunch of idiots who ruined Voyager 1" wouldn't be precisely the publicity a government would like.
(I wonder from how many organizations their scientists would be kicked out for pulling a stunt like t
Re:i 0\/\/n0rZ t3h \/()j463r! woooot! (Score:2)
BUT
If the feds really want to, they can probably track you down and give you a wedgie.
Re:And the message was.. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Go Vger...go!!! (Score:3, Informative)
According to wikipedia, it was launched in the 1980s or 1990s [wikipedia.org]; I've a funny feeling the film must have said the "late 20th century", though I can't remember for sure, but we're certainly behind schedule. By the time we've launched Voyager 6 and got it back, Persis Baldgirl isn't going to worth getting taken over.
Seriously, a pretty good film; less "Star Trekky" than the others IMHO, which might be why some hardcore fans dislike it (I'm
Don't They? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Don't They? (Score:2)
Re:In other words... (Score:2)
too late...
Officer: Captain Klaa, we have a traget in sight. A probe of ancient origin.
Capt Klaa: Difficult to hit?
Officer: most difficult
Capt Klaa: good
It's a good thing they didn't bring it aboard to examine it, then the Klingons would know where to find Earth.
Re:Voyager's binary transmission leaked! (Score:3, Informative)
is what it translates to.
Re:This can't be right (Score:3, Informative)
No, he means what he says. The interstellar medium is a very sparse gas indeed, but it is a gas, and there is such a thing as a speed of sound in it. Sure, it's not significant in most circumstances, but the Sun makes a hell of a lot of noise :-)
Re:good time to take snaps of pluto! (Score:3)