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Technology Science

Sunlight in a Tube 463

Posted by CmdrTaco from the truth-is-stranger-than-fiction dept.
Elitist_Phoenix writes "Scientists are developing a technology to save energy by transmitting sunlight into buildings through tubes. Indoor electric lighting is the largest consumer of electricity in commercial buildings. Their new system. called hybrid solar lighting, would reduce this energy usage with fixtures that supplement or completely replace electric light with sunlight, at times when its available. The system is called hybrid solar lighting (Google)."
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Sunlight in a Tube More

Sunlight in a Tube

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  • Oh crap. (Score:4, Funny)

    by grub ( 11606 ) <slashdot@grub.net> on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @11:46AM (#11944037) Homepage Journal

    How the hell am I going to maintain my pasty zombie-like complexion if they allow sunlight into the building?

  • Sunblock? (Score:5, Funny)

    by kanwisch ( 202654 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @11:46AM (#11944041)
    So what SPF will my employer be required to provide for my balding head?

  • What's the system called? (Score:5, Funny)

    by RollingThunder ( 88952 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @11:47AM (#11944044)
    Their new system. called hybrid solar lighting, would reduce this energy usage with fixtures that supplement or completely replace electric light with sunlight, at times when its available. The system is called hybrid solar lighting (Google)."

    I think it might be called hybrid solar lighting? Not sure though. Could anyone confirm?

  • This is nothing new... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by qwertphobia ( 825473 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @11:47AM (#11944053)
    all the Amish retailers here use the same sort of thing. They can light a supermarket with redirected light during daylight hours, and light up the propane system once the natural light is gone.

    • Re:This is nothing new... (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      They are cheating: "redirecting light" is some kind of what we call "technology" and we all know it is strictly forbidden! But seriously, at what point do the Amish consider something forbidden?

      • Re:This is nothing new... (Score:4, Interesting)

        by qwertphobia ( 825473 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @11:57AM (#11944219)
        They need to be able to understand all aspects of the design.

        Propane is just a burning gas, but gasoline employs internal combustion engines and refineries and all that.

        They're more relaxed than they used to be, especially for their businesses, but they still try to keep it down to basics where feasable.

        Their buggies need blinking lights by law, so they have no choice but to give in on some technologies.
        • To be honest, I rather doubt that the average Amish would be able to explain, at a fundamental level, how a mirror reflects light, or how propane burns.

          Not that I'm saying anything bad about the Amish; I doubt that the average person on the street, or the average slashdotter understands those either.

      • Re:This is nothing new... (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Washizu ( 220337 ) <bengarvey@[ ]cast.net ['com' in gap]> on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @01:00PM (#11944887) Homepage
        If you watch the documentary, Devil's Playground [imdb.com] they answer this question specifically. It's not technology they are against, it's the way technology affects their culture. For example, a telephone isn't bad in itself but it takes away from time spent with the family or working. In an emergency, they use them.

        The documentary is mostly about Amish kids when they go on their "rumspringa," but I learned a ton about the Amish in general.

    • 1988 Called... (Score:5, Funny)

      by temojen ( 678985 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @11:56AM (#11944206) Journal
      They want their Popular Science article back.

      (This is not intended to flame the parent post... it's along the vein of "This is nothin new...")
    • Also, didn't Egyptians who used conduits to direct light deep into the pyramids? At any rate, I remember seeing this in use in ancient architecture. I don't foresee the modern, high tech version of this being implemented widely for a while. In terms of peoples' homes and residences, this green home building guide [greenhomebuilding.com] shows how simple design modifications and materials choices can save energy and (the part people care about) cut heating costs dramatically.

    • Re:This is nothing new... (Score:5, Informative)

      by Khomar ( 529552 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @12:00PM (#11944254) Journal

      Actually, this is different than simple redirected light. Check out this link [energy.gov] for more information. Basically, it runs the sunlight through fiberoptic cables to light fixtures that work much like our current light bulbs. These means that you won't have to have serious architectural redesigns of buildings to get the same effect. It also will generate electricity that can be used for other applications (powering computers?). It is basically a hybrid approach to lighting.

  • I've had this in my office for years (Score:4, Funny)

    by Rude Turnip ( 49495 ) <valuationNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @11:47AM (#11944055)
    A nifty little invention called a "win-dow".

  • No sun please we're British. (Score:5, Funny)

    by IainMH ( 176964 ) * on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @11:48AM (#11944074)
    I live in Britain you insensitive clod!

  • this isn't news (Score:2, Informative)

    by Uzik2 ( 679490 )
    You can buy them off the shelf:

    http://www.skylights-of-hawaii.com/page13.html

  • This may be the first ever (Score:4, Informative)

    by tabkey12 ( 851759 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @11:49AM (#11944088) Homepage
    entirely content-free story on Slashdot? Look at the Google Cache [216.239.59.104] of the first link!
  • It's already slashdotted but I'm going to go for the one comment these scientists will hate..

    We have light in buildings, it's called windows. We're not living in 1984, it is okay to see the outside world.

    • Re:Article already.. (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Sparr0 ( 451780 )
      And how do you expect to get window lighting to an office 50 feet from any exterior wall? Unless you think every floor of an office building should have no walls...

  • New Open-Source Lighting System (Score:5, Funny)

    by johndiii ( 229824 ) * on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @11:50AM (#11944099) Journal
    It's called "Lux-In".

  • I have this in my house (Score:5, Funny)

    by HisMother ( 413313 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @11:50AM (#11944100)
    I have large, rectangular transparent panels installed in many of my exterior walls. They work very well!

    • Not quite 20 years ago, I was sharing a house in Boston with another hacker. One day, the office manager from work had to come pick up some documents, and was horrified to find how we lived. There was a room, possibly labeled "kitchen" on the architectural drawings, but we had converted into "computer room" (well, with that 240V 50A outlet in there, where else were we going to plug in the VAX?)

      She took pity upon us, and she and one of her girlfriends came to give the place a good de-toxing. She explai

  • and soon I can have my ultraviolet bullets to take care of those pesky vampires.

  • This just in... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anita Coney ( 648748 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @11:51AM (#11944116) Homepage
    After Scientists tackled the perplexing problem of getting light through a wall, via what is now called a "window," they moved on to the even more confounding "wheel," "fire," and "walking erect" problems. More news on these stories as they develop.

  • i have two (Score:3, Informative)

    by FudRucker ( 866063 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @11:53AM (#11944144)
    http://www.solatube.com/ [solatube.com]

    one in a windowless bathroom and another in the kitchen, this is not new, mine are over 10 years old...
  • These things [dayliteco.com] have been around for at least a decade.

  • Solar Lighting (Score:4, Informative)

    by TheFlu ( 213162 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @11:53AM (#11944152) Homepage
    The Department of Energy has some information on solar lighting available here [energy.gov].
  • At University of Minnesota, they made their Engineering School building mostly underground. The neat thing is that they used a series of mirrors to transmit natual light to a room that is something like 5 stories below ground. If you've ever been in that room before, it is somewhat surreal to think that you are underground, but still seeing natural light. I haven't been there in about 10 years though, so someone may correct me if I'm wrong about something here.

    --
    suso.org website/email hosting [suso.org], no disk

  • Mid 80's (Score:2, Interesting)

    by clinko ( 232501 )
    This was done in Japan in the Mid 80's.

    It was on Beyond 2000 (The tv show.)

    The roof of the building had the ends of fiber optics and every desk had a tube-like lamp.

    They said it was to freshen up the workers.

    The funny part: In the mid 90's I heard a similar building was sued by an employee for skin cancer!

    Gotta love it.
  • I've actually been bouncing this one around my head for a few years. Glad someone is putting the idea to use, since I'll never do anything with it.

  • From TFA:

    In the system, a rooftop collector concentrates and sends sunlight through optical fibers, tubes made of special, high-purity material that transmit light by reflecting it down their inner walls.

    I know for a fact that they've been doing this with light bulbs for a while (they collect like 90% of the emitted light from a halogen bulb and then can light, say, a staircase with it). Why nobody's done this earlier with sunlight, I have no idea.

  • This stuff [sun-tek.com] has been available for 15 years.

    Has there been a breakthrough? A cost drop? Or is it just that Oak Ridge started playing with it?
  • Great in that I can get cheap natural lighting indoors.

    Not great in that it does nothing to help me with my lighting problems when it's actually dark out, which is when I need light the most. If you think about it, this is an improvement on the window, not the light bulb.

    Also, I bet those tubes present opportunities for leaks.
  • Ok just before some calls this a new idea, why don't we (extremely expensive now, not so bad later) use fiber optics to create windows between windows and route them to inner offices so someone without any wall of the building can have an apparent window?

    I'm just really tired of me thinking of something then seeing it proclaimed as new several years later. :P

  • TIR Systems (Score:2, Interesting)

    by starfishsystems ( 834319 )
    A physicist friend of mine named Lorne Whitehead started up a company about twenty years ago to manufacture light pipes based on the principle of prismatic reflection.

    The startup phase has its usual challenges, I'm sure, especially finding markets, but the company has become very successful and very well known.

    It's called TIR Systems [tirsys.com] .

    (Unfortunately I can't comment on the cited article as it's already slashdotted.)

  • existed for many many years... (Score:5, Informative)

    by iamhassi ( 659463 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @11:58AM (#11944230) Journal
    "Daylighting: Bringing Daylight Deeper into Buildings [sun-tek.com]

    Environmental Building News, Volume 8, Number 10 - October 1999

    Imagine a device that sits on the roof of a building and focuses sunlight into cables the size of electrical wire. These cables are run through walls and ceiling plenums into light fixtures that beam natural, full spectrum daylight deep into a building's interior."

    it's called Hybrid Lighting or Daylighting. Been around for a looooooong time.

  • I remember seeing this in the 80's when I was a kid. It was developed in Japan using fibre optics.

    Sounds like "Not Invented Here" syndrome.
    • This one is so not new, it reeks of death and decay. I think we have another case of 'teeny bopper' Slashdot editor doesn't know history, thing going on here again. It was actually done in the early 80's as found in an article in Mother Earth News, just before the Hybrid Electric car article. (I am not kidding you either).

      I am not saying that Mother Earth news is the inventor, just that the tech existed 30 years ago, was published 30 years ago. Heck I am going to scour a few more of the older Mother E
  • Well, other than using expensive fiber optics between the reciever and the transmitter ends (trivially obvious, econimically unfeasable), these have been around for a loooong time.

    Google Link [google.com]

  • This IS new technology! (Score:5, Informative)

    by Khomar ( 529552 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @12:06PM (#11944329) Journal

    All of you who are immediately attacking the idea saying "haven't we done this before" are missing the point. This is not just redirected light. It is transporting the light through fiberoptic cables and transferring that energy through regular light fixtures. This would allow solar power to light internal rooms that don't have windows. It also will generate electricity for other internal applications beyond light.

    This technology would allow businesses to retrofit their buildings with solar light without having to do heavy remodelling to add skylights (the old way of doing it). This can be especially difficult for multi-floored buildings with internal rooms. Please read about the technology before immediately dismissing it as "nothing new".

    • Re:This IS new technology! (Score:3, Informative)

      by lxs ( 131946 )
      No it's not [himawari-net.co.jp] the link shows a photo from expo '85 (yes that's 20 years ago) where piped sunlight was first introduced by this company I'm not sure if they were the first in the world to produce these systems commercially.

  • (Very) Old idea, new technology (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Ironsides ( 739422 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @12:09PM (#11944362) Homepage Journal
    This is a pre-electricity invention. The only thing that is new is that they are using fibre optics instead of glass for carrying the light. Here's a Link [peninsulators.org]To Shipboard Prisms that was used and patented way back in 1684. A good 331 years ago.
  • Who else remembers seeing this on the Discovery Channel on either Next Step or Beyond 2000 back in the mid-90s?

    I miss those shows. So far ahead they beat Slashdot by 10 years.

  • Largest Consumption of Electricity? (Score:5, Informative)

    by srobert ( 4099 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @12:17PM (#11944434)
    "Indoor electric lighting is the largest consumer of electricity in commercial buildings."
    Where is this true? I worked as a stationary engineer in commercial buildings for years. HVAC was, I thought, always the biggest consumption of power. Of course, I'm in Las Vegas where in the summer the power bills are 4 times in the summer what they are in the fall.

  • Deck prisms and SOLF tubes (Score:5, Informative)

    by dpbsmith ( 263124 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @12:19PM (#11944462) Homepage
    Sailing ships used compact prisms to convey light to interior rooms without the need for large areas of fragile glass.

    And 3M had a material called SOLF, a vaguely Scotchlite-like material with tiny prism that could be made into tubes with highly efficient nearly-total internal reflection, that could carry light in, say, six-inch pipes over distances of many yards with negligible loss. Not terribly expensive, either.

  • I remember... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by eno2001 ( 527078 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @12:32PM (#11944583) Homepage Journal
    ...back in the 80s, there was a prototype of something like this. It was an extremely high quality glass "light tube" that could actually visually carry light and whatever was at the other end of the tube. The experimental set up they were talking about mentioned a basement lab with six of these around the room. They looked like round windows or portals in the wall, but they actually looked straight up to the sky. You could look in one and see clouds going by. Sounded pretty cool. I think it was featured in The Futurist magazine in 88 or 89.

  • Hybrid != Light Tube (Score:5, Informative)

    by Jodka ( 520060 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @12:42PM (#11944690)

    The prevailing opinion here seems to be that this is a stupid story, because light pipes are old news. Two people have even been moderated up to +5 for posting links to light pipe vendors.

    Light pipes are NOT the story here. Hybrid lighting is a NEW lighting system which separates the visible and IR components of sunlight, directing the visible components to room lighting and the IR components to thermo-voltaic generator, which stores electrical energy to light the room after the sun has gone down. Ordinary light pipes do not do that.

    From the U.S. Department of Energy Solar FAQ [energy.gov]:

    Q:How does a hybrid solar lighting (HSL) system work?

    A:Imagine being able to light your home or office most of the day, and on most days, with sunlight, but not the kind that comes through the windows. That's what hybrid solar lighting (or HSL) systems are being developed to do. Prototype HSL systems are made up of roof-mounted concentrators that collect and separate the visible and infrared portions of sunlight. The visible portion of the light is distributed through large-diameter optical fibers to hybrid luminaires. (Hybrid luminaires are lighting fixtures that contain both electric lamps and fiber optics to distribute sunlight directly.) Unlike conventional electric lamps, the solar component of HSL produces little heat.

    The remaining "invisible" energy in the sunlight, mostly infrared radiation, is directed to a concentrating thermo-photovoltaic (solar) cell that very efficiently converts infrared radiation into electricity. The resulting electric power can be directed to other uses in a building. When sunlight is plentiful, the fiber optics in the luminaires can provide all or most of the light needed in a particular area. But when there is little or no sunlight, sensor-controlled electric lamps turn on to maintain the desired illumination level.

    Independent cost and performance models suggest the overall affordability of solar energy could be doubled or tripled by using this new hybrid approach. The multidisciplinary R&D effort involved in developing HSL includes several industrial and university partners. Other Resources:

  • Versus developing LED technologies? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by behindthewall ( 231520 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @12:59PM (#11944883)
    I'm not conversant in the details, but my understanding is that the latest generations of LED technology are making rapid gains. And recently, advances in getting decent white/fuller spectrum light out of them have been made and/or hinted at.

    Given that these things can be installed using current systems, and have very low current draw and heat generation, I'm wondering how well what is essentially an architectural design element, with the implications of same from implementation through to building code (including safety features such and firewalling and the like) will be able to compete against LED fixtures and similar.

  • What about the extra heat? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by woobieman29 ( 593880 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @01:06PM (#11944953)
    Wouldn't these optical waveguides also pipe quite a bit of heat into the room? This would be great in some areas, but I would think that the areas that would most likely have enough sunlight to benefit from this tech would be in hotter climates. would we just be trading lighting bills for cooling bills?

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