Saving Huygens 267
TazMainiac writes "This months IEEE Spectrum is running an article on how a Swedish scientist discovered that the Titan probe Cassini had a communications flaw that would cause it to lose all data sent back from the Huygens lander as it plunges into Titan's atmosphere. The problem - Doppler effect. The fix: go read the article."
RTFM is the fix? (Score:5, Funny)
Not quite (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Not quite (Score:4, Funny)
Re:RTFM is the fix? (Score:3, Funny)
"If we all clap hard enough maybe Tinkerbell will be okay..."
We just hafta clap loud enough to be heard in space?
Sounds doubtful to me.
=tkk
Re:RTFM is the fix? (Score:2)
Re:RTFM is the fix? (Score:2)
Re:RTFM is the fix? (Score:4, Interesting)
so in this case the problem was indeed caused by the fact they couldn't RTFM to check the supplier had done the job correctly.
I think it is all summed up with the line "An Alenia Spazio spokeswoman said that none of the company's officials were available to comment because of a company-wide summer vacation period."
Re:RTFM is the fix? (Score:3, Insightful)
Contractors should be heavily punished if their designs fail -- make them pay to redesign and refly, for instance. "You can cram your agreement up your ass because we paid to buy this from you and because it's on a publicly funded spacecraft. We're posting this on the web now so stop whining."
And why do we keep buying from Lockheed when they've fucked up so many
Re:RTFM is the fix? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:RTFM is the fix? (Score:5, Insightful)
So I doubt that the fact that all of the company's officials were on summer vaction at the same time reflects on their abilities to design complicated hardware. It's just business as usual over there.
And as the article points out, NASA probably could have gotten the specs if they had signed an NDA but they didn't believe they were necessary. Given that statement, it's quite possible that no one would have looked at the specs close enough to notice the problem, even if they had them.
The fix: **Spoiler Alert** (Score:2, Funny)
Save yourself from RTA, the fix is: (Score:5, Funny)
duh...
NOOO!!! (Score:2, Informative)
It was a reference to star trek!
Re:NOOO!!! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Save yourself from RTA, the fix is: (Score:3, Funny)
What is this? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:What is this? (Score:2)
Yeah, I mean since when have we stopped catering to the illiterate geek community? People who can't read have rights too!
Lots of amazing stuff (Score:5, Interesting)
May not be that simple... (Score:4, Insightful)
Besides the obvious contractual nightmare this represents, there is also the issue of Export control between governments, which cannot be countermanded with a simple non-disclosure.
IMNAL, but I work on a similar project and you need to learn some of this stuff, sadly, to get your work done. I'm hopeful this incident will help to clear up these sort of cooperation issues in the future.
Good work in resolving this all involved! Remember Slashdotters, we explore to learn...
Re:Lots of amazing stuff (Score:3, Interesting)
The problem is that someone willing to sign an NDA is also in a situation where you cannot compete
Re:Lots of amazing stuff (Score:2, Insightful)
The Huygens probe has yet to be deployed to Titan. Thus, it is too early tell if there are not other significant problems.
Re:Lots of amazing stuff (Score:2)
Sort of. This was really an ESA project and NASA was was only assisting the them. If this was a NASA run project I'm sure they would have insited in seeing what the specs were (now weather that would have helped is a different question). I wonder if Alenia Spazio (the contractor) gave t
Re:Lots of amazing stuff (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Lots of amazing stuff (Score:4, Insightful)
Which doesn't make sense: did nobody at NASA have the brainpower to conceive of sending an emulated signal just like the one they actually ended up using? How much could it have cost to run a few hours' testing of Cassini's commlink prior to assembly of the craft? It's *always* a good thing to check system components in a full emulation environment.
I think there were many problems, and one of them was that the system (or system test) engineers didn't stop to think of the Q&D way to get some proper failsafe testing done.
Re:Lots of amazing stuff (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Lots of amazing stuff (Score:2)
Agreed. Not to mention the fact that apparently nobody thought to test the components before they assembled and certified them?
Re:Lots of amazing stuff (Score:4, Informative)
s/NASA/ESA/g
NASA was only observing - this part of the project was pretty much run by ESA. Still a "cock-up" all around.
Re:Lots of amazing stuff (Score:2)
It doesn't make sense because the pp gave a very facile explanation of the problem inviting misinterpretation.
NASA ran three tests, all of which passed, but none of which tested the internal correction of signal to carrier wave. Why this is true is due to a number of factors which were laid out in TFA.
The assumption that the receiver worked was in par
Re:Not amazing at al really. (Score:2, Insightful)
This conflicts with my reading of the article. The techie who suspected a problem had to fight tooth and nail to schedule a decent test run. The standard set of tests would not have detected dopler issues.
Re:Not amazing at al really. (Score:3, Insightful)
This is Slashdot. We don't point out inconsistencies and conflicts with the content of articles; we only point out conflicts with our preconceptions and prejudices. Please rephrase your post.
farsighted (Score:5, Funny)
Re:farsighted (Score:5, Interesting)
Reminds me of taking caculus exams...it was always something dumb like switching +/- or "1+1=3" that I got wrong...not the partial differentials.
It just shows that no matter how smart you are, if you hurry and don't pay attention to every trivial detail you'll make mistakes.
Re:farsighted (Score:2)
Re:farsighted (Score:2)
Horizon (Score:2, Interesting)
Saw this on Horizon yesterday evening.
Always nice to see a simple solution.
Now if only NASA could find a simple solution to conversions between imperial and metric, or not undoing bolts
Re:Horizon (Score:3, Interesting)
Anyone else notice just how much familiar movie music was in there? The sequence of Cassini being loaded into the Delta was accompanied by a track from Armageddon, a space flyby CG sequence had the 1989 Batman theme, and one of the Titan shots used the 'opening of the Ark' theme from Rai
Re:Horizon (Score:3, Interesting)
Disclaimer -- I work for IEEE Spectrum.
Re:Horizon (Score:2)
[I don't work for IEEE Spectrum]
Old news (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Old news (Score:3, Interesting)
-- disclaimer, I edited (and did some reporting for) this story.
Re:Old news (Score:2)
Re:Old news (Score:5, Insightful)
The point is that we dug up an aspect of the story you're not going to see any where else, let alone a general overview program, but a really cool story of a guy who deserves a lot of credit, Boris Smeds. I would hate for anyone to not bother to find out about him because a related program on the telly happened to be braodcast the night before
Re:Old news (Score:2)
Re:Old news (Score:2)
Re:Old news (Score:5, Interesting)
Boris deserves a lot of the credit for saving Huygens, but several other people deserve credit but have been rather anonymous outside of ESA/JPL. 'Saving' Huygens was a team effort, and a lot of people played a part. There are a handful of other key people that the article doesn't mention at all.
Also there are a few factual errors in the article.... NASA couldn't simply sign a NDA to get the specs for the receiver, and there was a lot of effort by NASA to get the specs. Even after the problem was detected, Alenia resisted sharing information for many months.
Re:Old news (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm in no way deingrating the amazing and creative work that the trajectory guys did. But think of it like this: If any one of those guys were absent from the project, because of a sabbatical, or, God forbid, an accident, chances are that the mission still would have been salvaged.
The same cannot be said about Smeds during the period between being told to do a test and coming back to ESA with the results -- it's fair to say that many, if not most, engineers would have just developed a carrier wave only test as originally planned, or wouldn't have bothered to persist with the more complex test after being turned down (after all, who's looking to get into trouble to do extra work?), or might not have had the insight required to modify the test on-the-fly when the downlink started showing problems.
The situation is analogous to Apollo in some ways: a lot of people helped design and build the LEM (Tom Kelly is one of my personal engineering heroes), but John Houbolt deserves his place in history for pushing NASA onto the LOR architecture path in the first place.
As for what we said about NASA and the NDA, I'll just have to say we stand by Oberg's reporting. But if you have something that shows we really did get it wrong, I'd be more than happy to look at it and print a correction if warranted.
classic (Score:5, Funny)
"We have a technical term for what went wrong here," one of Huygens's principal investigators, John Zarnecki of Britain's Open University, would later explain to reporters: "It's called a cock-up."
We Americans speak English, but this is proof positive that the British have had much more time to master the use of it
Re:classic (Score:2, Funny)
We Americans speak English, but this is proof positive that the British have had much more time to master the use of it
Of course we would tend to think that a "cock up" might very well be a good thing.
We have a technical term for it (Score:5, Informative)
Oooooh! I love that technical jargon.
Spoiler Warning:
Now you know how they fixed it, so no need to read the article.
Re:We have a technical term for it (Score:3, Funny)
Like that would ever happen on Slashdot anyway...
Re:We have a technical term for it (Score:2, Insightful)
Thank you for the summary! I tried to RTFA, but I got tired of the tedious dumbed-down human interest after the first thousand words of breathless "Could the mission be saved, or was it too late?" tosh that these journalists always seem to feel they have to pad their word counts with.
I guess I should be glad they hadn't quite managed to turn it into One Man's Struggle Against the Establishment. And if the guy had got divorced or lost a chil
Saving Pvt Huygens (Score:3, Funny)
"I tell you this Huygens had better develop a better theory of light or something..." -Cpt Miller
"Nasa has lost so many probes. We can't let them lose any more. We have to bring the data back." - Boris Smeds
I could have helped out with this (Score:5, Funny)
Long vacation. (Score:4, Funny)
Anyone think that the "company-wide summer vacation" may extend a little longer than originally expected?
"Hey, Tony! Glad to hear you ready for work. But why don't you go ahead and stay in Verona another month or two? Check out this web site [monster.it] while you're there. Ciao!"
the solution is so anticlimactic. (Score:2, Funny)
Re:the solution is so anticlimactic. (Score:3, Funny)
What? A $300M mission, and there's no provision for firmware upgrades? Even my $40 wireless hub can get firmware upgrades. Oh, wait: "Do NOT upgrade firmware on any D-Link product over a wireless connection. Failure of the device may result. Use only hard-wired network connections."
So I guess they'd have had to run a billion-mile cab
Re:the solution is so anticlimactic. (Score:2)
Who cares about line noise, I want to see the whiplash at the end of the cable when I tap it on this end. Whip that probe!
-Adam
Clever Solution (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Clever Solution (Score:2)
Disclaimer: I edited this story for IEEE Spectrum
Re:Clever Solution (Score:3, Insightful)
Today on slashdot I learned that angle of incidence is a function of distance. Thanks for the "informative" post.
SDR (Score:5, Informative)
I do SDR (Software Defined Radio) for a living - doing a data slicer like this isn't very hard at all. Why they couldn't just reprogram the slicer to take into account the bit timing shift - or better still, why weren't they resyncing on the zero crossings of the signal so they could deal with bit timing errors automatically?
Hell, for that matter why don't they have an option to route the recovered signal verbatim to the main transmitter and send that to earth - and do the signal processing here? NASA *used* to have the philosophy of "all the bits to earth" - the wouldn't even use lossless data compression lest the signal be corrupted and unrecoverable.
Re:SDR (Score:3, Informative)
because as the article said, the firmware was not designed for being reflashed remotely.
RTFA (Score:3, Informative)
The problem is they didn't find this problem until AFTER launch. good timing, right?
Re:RTFA (Score:2)
And again, why did they not design the slicer to resync on zero crossings, which would have prevented the problem in the first place?
Re:RTFA (Score:2)
There were lots of ways the receiver could have been done that would have been better, but it wasn't done that way, and they didnt' have the code, nor any way to fix it remotely anyway.
Faster, Better, Cheaper. Pick two.
Re:RTFA (Score:2)
It's a BPSK receiver, so the zero crossings are the data. I would think the decoder would look like a fast PLL whose center frequency corresponds to the nominal data rate, with enough locking range to handle Doppler-induced variations. Guess there was little or no locking range after all.
Re:SDR (Score:2, Interesting)
Were you doing SDR in 1997 when Cassini was launched? Were you doing it in 1987 when Cassini was being designed?
All the bits don't come to earth because Cassini doesn't have continuous data transmission to the Earth. That would be extremely expensive. DSN time is charged out the wazoo. I don't know Cassini specs, but most missions plan on recording data and shipping it back to Earth when DSN time is allocated. It isn't continous. DSN has other things to do.
You want to send the raw analog signals ("v
Re:SDR (Score:2)
The fact that the slicer couldn't be reflashed in flight is just plain stupid - and that is my point.
And as for sending the raw signals - I did not say "make that the only option" - I said "why is that NOT an option". The whole thing about designing spacecraft is to have as much flexibility as possible so that WHEN the unexpected happens, you have a shot at a work-around.
Re:SDR (Score:4, Informative)
Re:SDR (Score:5, Informative)
This isn't the only screw-up for Alenia this mission. Look for articles involving the Ka Band Translator if you're interested. You may not find many, it hasn't been covered very publicly. Basically, we can no longer send a Ka band uplink to the spacecraft becasue the Alenia built receiver broke. See Paragraph 10 here [spinics.net]
Re:SDR (Score:2)
The big dish they use to transmit to Earth is also the dish that will be used to pick up Huygen's signal -- it can't be pointing in two places at once.
Proprietary (Score:3, Insightful)
Wrong wrong wrong (Score:2)
Slashdot needs a 'HERO' tag (Score:5, Interesting)
This engineer that found the problem and rallied against opposition to see that this gets fixed is, in my opinion, a total hero. The world would be a much better place if more people like him were around!
A great hack! (Score:2)
Kudos. A relatively unknown engineer suddenly earned a great deal of respect from me.
Great work by Smeds. (Score:4, Interesting)
Boris Smeds did a great job in replacing lots of expensive tests with a series of trivial, yet critical tests.
Why weren't simple tests like these used while the spacecraft was on the ground?
These are obvious problems. When you take a transmitter and throw it into a planetary descent, this is what should be expected.
It is shocking to me that a transceiver pair isn't tested by the team assembling the spacecraft before launch!
If it can be tested in 2 days when it's in space, 48 light-speed minutes away, why can't it be tested on the ground, fully assembled?
Engineering isn't a science, but I expect that engineers desigining projects like this should be using thorough unbiased scientific testing, not only thorough design.
If they slip up like this in non-destructive tests, one has to wonder about how tests on the resistance to physical damage are carried out?
Do they simply make assumptions that all nuts & bolts are manufactured to spec? Do they assume that all parts will withstand the forces that they are requesting in spec sheets?
How can a cost of hundreds of millions of dollars be justified in creating such craft, when basic, inexpensive testing isn't being carried out? If the test would cost 30,000$ (a few days of well-paid outside experts time, plus expenses and travel), as a critical portion of a 300,000,000$ mission, how is it not done?
The only agreement that should be accepted by an agency purchasing a part is that they won't use the specifications of that part to replicate exactly the same device. I'm sure that they paid a high premium for the transceiver. Why wouldn't they have access to the documentation and spec sheets? This use of NDA's is dangerous.
Re:Obvious (Score:4, Informative)
a collaboration with the European Space Agency, Cassini, in addition to its own suite of scientific instruments designed to scan Saturn and its moons, carries a hitchhiker--a lander probe called Huygens.
Re:Obvious (Score:2)
Re:Obvious (Score:4, Insightful)
As you answered in the previous paragraph - it's the non-scientist administrators.
Re:Obvious (Score:2, Informative)
The board discovered that Alenia Spazio SpA, the Rome-based company that built the radio link, had properly anticipated the need to make the receiver sensitive over a wide enough range of frequencies to detect Huygens's carrier signal even when Doppler shifted. But it had overlooked another subtle consequence: Doppler shift would affect not just the frequency of the carrier wave that the probe's vital observations would be transmitted on but also the digitally encoded signal itself. In effect, the s
Whats wrong with Proprietary (Score:4, Insightful)
In this case, the black box didn't meet the required standards, but there was no way NASA could have known that this company built the black box out of off-the-shelf terrestrial design principles unfit for cosmic use.
Re:Whats wrong with Proprietary (Score:2)
Well, for near-earth satts anyway.
And they would have known it wouldn't work if they had done the test in the first place, but they decided it was too expensive.
The guy from the article just had the insight and peristance to run a test that he knew should have been run before.
As a bonus he also figured out how to fix the problem.
Re:Obvious (Score:3, Insightful)
Uh, yeah, that's a way to look negatively on it...
Another way to do it is to look at with which success both parties assembled a NASA/ESA cooperation to solve this critical problem, and did it.
If we're only going to only see the problems, no organization or company is successful. If we're going to look at those solving the problems in time to become
Re:what esa makes to people (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:what esa makes to people (Score:2)
Re:Let me guess.... (Score:2)
Re:Let me guess.... (Score:2)
That would depend on your frame of reference. That is to say, compared to what are they 'falling'?
Re:Let me guess.... (Score:2)
So it's safe to say that the photon's path is both curved AND straight depending on your frame of reference? Perhaps to the photon, we are the ones who are falling!
[nt] I guess that makes them "metro"... (Score:2)
Re:Doppler shifting radio waves? (Score:5, Informative)
Certainly, satellites around the Earth qualify -- if you want to be truly successful working with amateur (ham) satellites, you need to adjust for the doppler shifts. [amsat.org], especially at the higher frequencies. If you don't, you'll only be successful when the doppler shift is small -- basically, when the satellite is as high in the sky as it's going to get in this pass.
Suppose your signal is at 441 mHz, and the signal is only 20 kHz wide. It only takes a 0.005% shift in the frequency to move that signal 20 kHz so you can't detect it at all, and doppler shifts seen by objects in low Earth orbit satellites can be a good deal larger than that.
Re:Doppler shifting radio waves? (Score:3, Informative)
Let me correct myself. At 440 mHz, I've seen Doppler shifts of low Earth satellites around 10 kHz. This is enough that you'll still pick up the signal, but it'll be really garbled. You definately do need to adjust for this when talking to these satellites using the 440 mHz band. (In the 2m/144 mHz band, the effect is smaller and can almost be ignored. However, many satellites transmit on one band an
Re:Doppler shifting radio waves? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Doppler shifting radio waves? (Score:3, Informative)
Well, you could RTFA
Re:Doppler shifting radio waves? (Score:5, Informative)
The relative velocity was quoted as 5.5km/sec which means v/c=0.000018. This is not such a small number.
Furthermore, even though the frequency changes little, the phase can shift a lot. The change in phase is proportional to v/c times the number of cycles in the segment you are examining - and there are a lot of cycles in 1/8192 second chunk of the microwave signal they are using to communicate.
Lastly, the length of the transmission also matters - 2 hour transmission of 1/8192 sec chunks amounts to approximately 60 million chunks. If you multiply the doppler shift above by the number of chunks you get approx 1000 - i.e. the chunk timing will shift through completely 1000 times during transmission. (In other words you will be drifting in and out of sync with transmission rate 1000 times during descent.. A sure way to get most data scrambled)
Re:Doppler shifting radio waves? (Score:5, Informative)
The general equation is:
fdoppler = (frest * velocity )/ c
where:
fdop = frequency after doppler shift
frest = frequency before doppler shift
velocity = speed of object relative to oberver
c = speed of light
Although radio waves have a longer wavelength (kilohertz/megahertz) than light (terahertz+), the
effect is less noticable, but still significant.
According to the article, the doppler shift was +/-38 Kilohertz. Given the fact that data was being transmitted on an 8/16 Kilohertz carrier wave, that's a rather significant change.
This is enough difference to allow police speed radar traps to work, and for researchers to measure the wind speeds inside tornado's.
Re:Dont Bother Reading Long Article (Score:5, Insightful)
The point of the story was to explain the problem with a level of accuracy and detail that was simply missing from most report and to tell the story of some stone-cold great work by an engineer, something of interest to most engineers, and I would hazard, to most slashdotters.
As far as I am aware, no-one else has told the story of how Boris Smeds pushed through the comms test that showed something was wrong, despite intial rejection and then later, modified it on the fly to reveal the problem was Doppler related, saving months of delay. Learning about his example of how to be a great engineers is the article's real utility, not teaching Spectrum readers how to fix Titan landers.
Disclaimer -- I edited this story for IEEE Spectrum
Re:Dont Bother Reading Long Article (Score:2)
Re:Some Numbers (Score:2)
So, KE = 684 x 10^9 J.
I thought, perhaps, that you used a British billion 10^12 instead of an American Billion 10^9, but I'd still not get your numbers.
Re:Some Numbers (Score:3)
Re:Some Numbers (Score:3, Informative)
The trick is to find a planet that's moving relative to the spacecraft.
Imagine flying past a non-moving body, this will change your course, but assuming don't hit too many things you should be traveling at the same speed. Now ima