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Non-commercial Manned Rocket Test (pre1)
Posted by
Hemos
on Thu Nov 22, 2001 03:02 PM
from the foom-into-space dept.
from the foom-into-space dept.
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Non-commercial Manned Rocket Test (pre1)
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This guy... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:This guy... (Score:5, Insightful)
I hate the so-called "Darwin Awards" for their "HA-HA I'm *so* much smarter than these (often drunken) fools HA-HA"-attitude even though I generally like nasty humor, but I despise the attitude displayed in the above post even more. If the Wright who flew the first plane would have crashed and died, and you would have been there, would you have gloated "It's a good thing that imbecile cleansed himself from the gene pool"? I don't know how well this person has planned his rocket trip or even if he's sane, but I applaud him at attempting something I wouldn't have the guts to do.
Currently (about two nanoseconds after the story was posted) the above post has 3 +funnies, I hope that it goes down to -1 troll. But it probably won't, since joking about risky attempts that push the limits of human experience in the vein "HA-HA this idiot is gonna die HA-HA" is very, very popular on Slashdot. :-(
I should win (Score:1, Funny)
Non-commercial (Score:1)
That kindof strikes me as saying "I'll offer $10,000 to anyone who'll say no to $10,000!", and then having several people coming up to give it a shot.
Cool until.. (Score:2)
85%? (Score:2, Funny)
Good. So he'll come back safely; just without a head.
It's all about da Benjamins, baby... (Score:5, Funny)
"Mr Bennett...wants to win the $10m...X-Prize. This award...will go to the first non-governmental outfit to put people on a rocket...62 miles...above the Earth...flying twice within a two-week period...[and]...also carry passengers."
In other news:
"A group of loosely organized computer enthusiasts from the website Slashdot [slashdot.org] have developed a space vehicle called the "Leech".
This craft is essentially a septic tank with enormous velcro straps. They have apparently bribed a NASA engineer with a $1m payday if he lets them piggyback on the space shuttle.
A model rocket engine has been attached to the rear of he septic tank because hey, rules are rules.
Knunov
NASA out of business? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:NASA out of business? (Score:5, Insightful)
NASA's proportion of the space pie is shrinking- commercial operators, some of them NASA contractors are growing, and NASA can't grow due to it's fixed budget from the government- it's actually part of the government. That's a good thing in fact. Companies are supposed to grow, Governments can only grow by increasing taxation.
NASA should stick to what it's good at, exploration, not commercial launching.
Link (Score:2, Interesting)
Don't forget Brian Walker (Score:4, Informative)
Is this guy serious? (Score:3, Interesting)
It's one thing to launch an 11m rocket some 5000ft, it's quite another to build a functioning spacecraft!
At the very minimum it would have to carry a ton of payload; most probably quite a bit more. To get an idea of the kinds of equipment involved, this link [af.mil] on the Delta II provides a good overview of the kind of sheer power and equipment needed to put even a relatively small 5 ton payload into space.
Even the new X-34 [nasa.gov] being developed by NASA for cheaper space-flight still estimates a $500'000 cost per launch, and that's not even including the construction costs!
That an amateur could attempt this at all is ridiculous, let alone be the first non-governmental outfit to achieve this. You have to wonder what's going on in this guy's head.
"Into space" != "into orbit". (Score:5, Informative)
At the very minimum it would have to carry a ton of payload; most probably quite a bit more. To get an idea of the kinds of equipment involved, this link [af.mil] on the Delta II provides a good overview of the kind of sheer power and equipment needed to put even a relatively small 5 ton payload into space.
It turns out that it's a lot easier than you think to build an X-Prize-winning rocket.
The Delta rockets and other commercial launch vehicles need to get an object into _orbit_. This takes about 30 MJ/kg (the binding energy for LEO), or about 8 km/sec delta-V.
Satisfying the X prize only requires sending a payload up to 100 km. It doesn't have to stay there. This only takes about 1 MJ/kg (1.0e5 metres times about 10 m/sec^2). This corresponds to a delta-V of about 1.4 km/sec. This is much, much easier to achieve.
The reason why this is *much* easier (or more accurately, why anything higher than 2-3 km/sec is *really* hard), is that when the delta-V of your rocket is larger than your exhaust velocity, the amount of fuel needed to give that delta-V to a fixed amount of payload starts growing exponentially (it's roughly linear below this threshold). Typical specific impulses for rocket fuels are in the 2000-3000 N*s/kg range, corresponding to exhaust velocities of 2-3 km/sec. So, anything below about 2 km/sec can be accomplished with relative ease, while anything above about 4 km/sec requires a rocket that's mostly fuel (and probably multi-stage, unless you have extremely strong and light materials).
In summary, building a rocket that can lift a payload into a sub-orbital trajectory that tops out at 100 km is certainly within reach of a small group's resources.
[The real problem will be finding someone willing to pay for it. You can't lift payloads into orbit with this rocket, and cost of developing the rocket will probably be more than you'd get from the X-Prize.]
Not almost there (Score:3, Interesting)
This looks like a fund raising media event more than proof of anything that will win the prize within a year. Still, this is cool.
In other news... (Score:2, Informative)
I would say they have a better chance of getting things into space. Their record rocket went 35,00ft into the air, plus they have developed their own engine. Their fuel is supposed to be efficient - its got nitrous oxide in it! (ok i don't know what this really would mean but after watching "The Fast and the Furious" it just seems cool). Plus their ambitions seems to be getting sattelites and not people into space - more readily acheiveable IMHO.
Re:In other news... (Score:5, Informative)
Bennet is basically a big joke in the UK, he has got all rocketry groups banned from using military bases to test rockets from, and one of his earlier rocket escapades burned a substantial part of moorland in Dartmoor.
Bennets rocket is nothing more than a scaled-up HPR (High Power Rocket) vehicle, and is nothing more exciting than is flown by many HPR enthusiasts here in the UK and the US.
Our most recent success flew last weekend - it's a true and proper amateur rocket utilising our new Hybrid rocket motor, quite possibly the most powerfull amateur hybrid motor flown anywhere in the world
Go to http://www.mars.org.uk for more details.
Regards
Kevin Cave.
All the Karma Whoring Details (Score:3, Informative)
For those of you interested in Darwin Awards [darwinawards.com], here is the X-Prize site [xprize.org]. Here is Robert A. Braeunig's [commkey.net] page on how to do it, orbital mechanics and the like. Space.com [space.com] usually carries the X-prize news. For those of you wondering about the difference between an Ariane and a Proteus, here is the glossary [spacefuture.com]
1Alpha7
Would the prize even cover costs? (Score:1)
1500 meters not even close to space. (Score:3, Insightful)
Still, it's nice to see that the guy got things off the ground and was able to rescue (and reuse?) some of the parts at the same time.
Old stuff... (Score:2, Interesting)
After the £7m prize was announced for the first non-commercial person to get into space, it seems there are now several people aiming to win it. Cool.
You make it seem like a new prize... this article is just talking about the same old X-Prize [xprize.org], which has been around since 1996. In fact, almost a year ago there was an article in the BBC discussing several of the contenders, and Bennett was generally talked about as being a crazy risk-taker, and least likely to win. Another (closer to home) competitor is toy-inventor Brian Walker (aka Rocket Guy [rocketguy.com], about whom there was a Slashdot article, but I can't find it as Slashdot's search is down), as well as famous aircraft designer Bert Rutan and his company Scaled Composites [scaled.com].
There are several other contenders, and lots of cool animations and info to be found at the X-Prize homepage.
One of these days, Alice... (Score:2)
Average guys bumbling around in space, making all kinds of amusing [albeit costly and dangerous] mistakes... sounds interesting. But isn't there already something like this?
Average Slobs Get Chance At Space [ridiculopathy.com]
"Rocket Scientist" no longer conotes incredible intelligence [ridiculopathy.com]
Commercial Rocketry (Score:3, Insightful)
Then I'd be a lot less worried about these amateurs strapping bombs to their behinds and vying for orbit. After a few failed launches, new laws will be implemented world-wide "for our protection" that prevent anyone but registered governmental space agencies from launching manned missions, and commercial spaceflight will be relegated to satellites and probes forever.
This might be very dangerous. (Score:1)
Such sick evilmen might attack commucinations satellites and bring down the whole internet in no time.
There are of course some ocean cables but we all know that these are not very reliable due to the sharks. In fact there has evoled a new shark species which can stand very high pessure just the nibble at ocean cables and make them break.
And there is also the possibility that evil terrorist might fall down from space onto your head !!!
John's the man (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm pretty sure this guy is running low on cash so he hurried up this test in order to get some media attention that would help him get some more funds. It doesn't really matter really, since I already know who's goign to win. That will be Armadillo Aerospace [armadilloaerospace.com]
They had a crash a few months ago and have recovered very well. their plans are the opposite from what most of the other contestant's are doing. They're working on a design that revolves around the ability to seat people on it, instead of trying to get higher than anyone and then picking up the parts. Actually, now that I think of it, I don't even think they're doing this for the prize, which makes them even better candidates.
Of course, now I am also oversimplifying things, but at least I don't make money doing it, so I encourage you to go to John Carmak's site and check out the logs. Maybe someone here can help out with those Windows ME features he's been having problems with (check out the last few log entries)
Hey, it works. (Score:2, Insightful)
davinci project (Score:2, Interesting)
see:
http://www.xprize.org/~Xprize/teams/davinci/ind
the site also has links to other teams
tres cool!
Armadillo Aerospace (Score:3, Informative)
How can you forget about Armadillo Aerospace? You might know the name of one of the members of the team: John Carmack [slashdot.org]. They are very serious. They have a few flight test videos, and they have a few prototypes that could carry a person (Though that spot was filled by a punching bag for testing purposes).
Check out:
Armadillo Aerospace [armadilloaerospace.com]
Comment [slashdot.org] by JC about his rockets (Hydrogen Peroxide-based, by the way).
Their demonstration video [armadilloaerospace.com](quite impressive).
Don`t Hold Your Breath... (Score:1, Funny)
A better article on Mr. Bennett (Score:2, Informative)
He's not going to win the X-Prize.
Explain this to me (Score:1)
This is possible using binary... (Score:1)
Everyone forgot about RocketGuy? (Score:1)
so much for my humorous title... (Score:2, Funny)
These run the gamut from "It's hard to imagine betting against Burt Rutan" to John Candy's old "that blowed up REAL good!"
One or two of them is simply missing "ACME Corporation" painted on the side...
I'll be the first to cheer if someone figures out how to do this reliably and cheaply. But you'd think this roster would have fewer - um - "outliers". The plane-to-rocket transition seems to be the favorite approach - on the other hand - MacCready et. al. didn't win the Kremer prizes by thinking the same as the other teams.
Gotta love the flying saucer from Oregon (by the way - we've all spent 5 minntes on the ROTOR ride (big salad spinner) at the county fair - can you imagine the aliens getting out of a spinning saucer after a multiyear trip? "Klaatu! Gort barada nik- URRRRRRRRRP!!!!! RAAAAAAAAALPH!!! Oh God...WOOOOOOOOOOOF!!! Klaatu - kill me now!")
This has to be the ultimate Big Comp for most of these folks. A copy of Strata 3D, a few glam shots in front of someone else's cool plane that ain't going to space? Cute. Dangerous. Naiive. Load people into a rocket that's literally floating in the ocean? You can't load a cup full of coffee in 2ft seas - so why give up the stability of land?
Oh well - we weren't going to have another great meteor storm for a while - this'll have to do.
Ha Ha Ha HA !!!! (Score:1)
Seriously this guy is most famous for getting UK model rocket enthusiasts banned from launching on government land because he torched acres of firing range a few years ago.
phaeton sez: (Score:1, Funny)
Like Elton John said: (Score:1)
It's just my job, five days a week."
Someone earlier said that we shouldn't poo-poo this guy's dream. More has been done for humanity by the "single genius" (or madman) than has been done by governments. All the important inventions have been done by single people. The horse collar (don't laugh, it made moving things easier). The concept of interchangable parts (sam colt - our society is based on his idea). The assembly line. AC electricity (thank you Tesla!). radio. airplanes. Maybe he'll die...maybe he will. Or maybe he'll succeed. Or maybe he'll die and his death will spark someone else to fix his problems and succeed.
But here's what troubles me:
to achieve orbit requires alot of energy. ALOT. I remember a chinese rocket that went squirrly 2 seconds after ignition, flew 20 miles across the hills and blew up a whole village. I remember several sattelites that were rendered useless because they were hit by a 25,000 KPH !_PAINT_FLECK_! Is this guy putting a rocket into orbit, or is he putting a big piece of flying-death-junk into orbit that future space missions will be endangered by. Sure - ONE piece of flying junk is not so bad. But what if this becomes a big fad...and there are hundreds of thousands of pieces of flying death junk orbiting the earth?
Booster supplier (Score:1)
Re:IS this really sensible ? (Score:1)
Re:I dont think this is so cool (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:IS this really sensible ? (Score:2, Insightful)
--
Re:Does anyone notice the shae of the rocket...... (Score:1)
They all do.
I've often wondered if it was some really deep hangup of the (almost exclusively male) people who create them, or if it is just how they must look to function. I've always felt Ariane 4 looked the part even more so. The web page at Arianespace [arianespace.com] shows this clearly.
All kidding aside, there are several orders of magnitude between the results reported in this thread, and actually getting in to space. I hope they can make it work. But the people at NASA, ESA et al are not fools, and if they spent that much time and money on the problem it just might be because it's a harder problem than it looks...
...laura
Moderation Abuse Alert!!! (Score:1)
Oh, and I admit that abuse was probably a bit harsh.
Re:I dont think this is so cool (Score:1)
A kilogram of liquid hydrogen costs something like $100, but launching a kilogram into orbit costs something like $20,000. Where does all that money go? Paper, mostly. Supposedly all the paper it takes to launch a shuttle outweighs the shuttle itself.
Spaceflight doesn't need to be complicated. It's just like launching model rockets, except bigger and with more volatile fuel.