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Space Fungus Eating Mir (Really) 285
dublin writes: "The Boston Globe has a good article about how Mir is being eaten alive by virulent fungi. The fungi, which are found both inside and outside the aging space station, are rampant to the point that a cosmonaut has said, "There were areas you wouldn't want to stick your hand in." NASA reports that some of these fungi can attack and weaken plastics and even metals.
"
Fungus (Score:2)
Re:Space research should pay off... (Score:3)
To make fungi (or bacteria) mutate by using strong radiation, one does not have to use space station; gamma guns, etc, are readily available on the Earth and, AFAIK, are widely used to generate mutations in bacteria. Same applies to vacuum pumps. One has a good chance to find both things in any decent bio lab.
But the whole story about fungi growing in vaccum seems pretty... err.. fantastic. Fungi spores are known to survive space vacuum and radiation; but live species are known to die at such levels of radiation and such temperature leaps. More, things that get sent to space stations undergo severe decontamination, and it includes steriziation of pretty much everything. (My parents worked at a space launch facility, so I know it not from books only %-)) So it seems quite unprobable for some fungi to come unnoticed to a space station, not to say to proliferate there.
Re:If you throw some money in... (Score:1)
Ado? Mr Hitler to you!
Re:mmm...Andromeda Strain (Score:1)
601
or some number for "computer overload" that didn't even happen in the book as far as I can remember.
Yep, Sphere was totally butchered too.
How will they destroy Timeline...? Stay Tuned!
Re:Of course! (Score:1)
but the byproduct (alcohol) will kill them quite rapidly.
But there are other reasons why it is unpossible for a fungii to live on the outside of MIR.
First the temperature is low, slowing the life speed down.The sun could warm the surface,but not enough.
The second is the lack of water, fungii need water to feed, and I'm certain that the water would
1) freeze
2) evaporate, making survival impossible.
And thirdly the first issue with the toxication of the fungii by it's byproducts of fermentation.
So I'm quite certain that the fungii found on the MIR was inside where it's warm, damp and lot of nice things to eat like dead human
cells
There are bacteria that can live without oxygen. These are called Arcaebacteria and lives in sulfur vents
on the bottom of the sea and in rock and similar places. One could phantom one of these living in the hull of MIR.
But how would they be transfered from the rock to MIR and would they find sulpur to live on\in...
Cosmonaut? (Score:1)
The guy that made that statement was Jerry Linenger, an astronaut from the USA!
Did you read that story?
Slashdot, did you research that story!?
They should harvest this stuff... (Score:1)
Re:Fungi in space? (Score:1)
Re:Much broader implications for exobiology (Score:1)
The trick here is the difference between a probe going to Mars and a panel going to Mir. A Mars probe may be hermetically sealed inside a capsule and sterilized with ungodly amounts of heat. That capsule may then be launched and the probe deployed. On its descent to the surface, the probe gets to undergo re-entry, which forms (at least in an Earth atmosphere --- I don't know if this is true of Mars as well, but it probably is) a superheated plasma around the craft. (There are some things not even bacteria can survive, and ionized particle bombardment is one.) I believe that probes were also designed to be able to sterilize their internal sample containers and their gathering equipment.
Now compare this to a bit of Mir. It's loaded in a shuttle bay, and spends a few days in there with sweaty astronauts. They handle it. It is never sterilized or sealed away. Humans have ungodly amounts of organisms on us. Contamination is inevitable.
You want a sterile station? Sterilize and seal each piece, sterilize and seal the transport bay, and do not let humans anywhere near it, not even in space suits (the outside of the suit gets contaminated by shuttle air). Touch it only with sterilized and isolated robot arms. In short, take all the same precautions that a Class 4 virology lab does, and perhaps more.
Of course, how you're going to get all the necessary equipment onto an orbiter is your engineering problem, not mine.
Re:Of course! (Score:2)
When the cells are unable to provide enough ATP, they resort to breaking down glucose by glycolysis into pyruvic acid, and then into lactic acid. This process only yields 2 ATP per glucose, but it's very quick. It's much like comparing an internal combustion gasoline powered-engine to solid fuel booster rockets.
The aerobic process in cell metabolism is respiration, the process of converting oxygen and glucose into water and carbon dioxide by breaking glycolysis down into pyruvic acid, and then into acetic acid. From there, it goes through the Kreb cycle to produce ADP, which is combined with another phosphate to produce ATP. This process takes much longer than fermentation, but is much more efficient.
Mike
"I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer."
Re:Not outside Mir (Score:1)
I can well believe fungus could grow on the outside - but surely there isn't mush room inside...
Re:not just fungus. (Score:1)
Alien Files [jollyroper.com] - horny space fungi that become horny Earth girls.
Now, does that sound like a bad sci-fi movie to you?
Re:Destination Mir (Score:2)
This is not particularly dangerous, and actually it happened before (once, as I recall). Soyuz vehicles have an autonomous, very simple and powerful solid fuel rocket right on top of the capsule where cosmonauts are. In case of fire/explosion on launch that rocket detaches the capsule and brings it few kilometers away from the launch pad. This happens very quickly, and accelerations are substantial (like 10+ g) but not unbearable for few seconds.
The Shuttle never had such system and still doesn't have.
Re:Of course! (Score:1)
I can vouch for the JD smell.
-Caedes
Re:Destination MIR? (Score:2)
Hey! There's the first two sponsors for the program! :-)
Eric
--
Re:Typical (Score:1)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't communism start in Germany, with Marx and Engels?
So Much For "Destination Mir" (Score:2)
First prize is 1 week on Mir
Second prize is TWO weeks.
Re:Is the fungus actually growing in a vaccuum? (Score:2)
Eric
You call that fungus? (Score:1)
Ah, now I know that my space training facility is even more accurate than I thought. The fungal blooms creeping in the corners and shadows are now a welcome addition to my home, rather than a hated nuisance. I may not have constant high levels of gamma radiation, but I watch a lot of TV, and run the microwave nearly 24/7.
Anyone else think of Blakes 7 (Score:2)
- Sam
Re:Make sure you catch the last paragraph... (Score:1)
Answer that question (it's a three part answer) and you'll see why your response is "correct" but not accurate or adding any information
"Where am I?"
"In a helicopter..."
Do you work for MS my Anonymous friend?
Ok here's the answers to why condensation gets everywhere:
1) They are in zero g.
2) They have low-power cooling/heating systems and very little water and oxygen (they don't take showers, for example) so they can't dry the air, vent waste air immediately, or wash down the "decks" with fungus-killing detergent.
3) They don't have an oxygen/water making facility next door and a big powerplant to facilitate the actions described in point 2.
All these points are addressed on Mars. Oh yeah, and the other thing:
They DO have a janitor on board. What do you think the pilot does on Space Shuttle missions whilst on-orbit? S/He basically cleans the space potty. It's an extremely important job.
I would be interested in your response.
Hmmm... (Score:2)
Time and time again... (Score:1)
What have I told you about unsafe docking procedures? Everytime you dock with a ship, you're docking with every other space station they've docked with. And who knows what kind of payload they were carrying? I knew this would happen sooner or later, with the rate you're going. Times are changing, this isn't the Space Age anymore.
trick
Re:Is the fungus actually growing in a vaccuum? (Score:1)
Read the Space.com article:
"They consume organic stuff which consists of skin epithelia, lipids and other products of human activity," Novikova said. "These products get into the station atmosphere from human breath, sweat etc....and stick to the station's surfaces."
"Bacteria and fungi eat this stuff and generate products of metabolism, particularly organic acids which can corrode steel, glass and plastic."
The only reason it's called Space Fungus is because the station is in Space, and therefore subject to a more direct amount of radiation than when on earth.
*rimshot* (Score:1)
Re:Is the fungus actually growing in a vaccuum? (Score:1)
I wonder if it will like Costarican coffee?
Re:not just fungus. (Score:1)
--
Why Ah Must Scribble GNU
not just fungus. (Score:2)
- A.P.
--
* CmdrTaco is an idiot.
Why don't they open the space station to vacuum? (Score:1)
Amazing... life goes on... literally (Score:1)
--Mike--
Origination of the fungus (Score:1)
Destination MIR? (Score:3)
jdb
Re:Of course! It's isn't just a vacuum... (Score:1)
Also, the temperature can be expected to change from extremely cold to extremely hot, unless the MIR is stablized relative to the sun.
Just a little wierd? (Score:1)
Space 'shrooms! (Score:1)
Infestation (Score:1)
Re:SPACEFUNGUS.COM - any ideas what to do with it? (Score:1)
we will also personally welcome the space fungus to planet earth, and offer to help them in their conquest needs.
i think it would be funny, especially if it looked real professional.
i'd even be willing to help with design and implementation.
Typo =) (Score:2)
Mike
"I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer."
Re:Much broader implications for exobiology (Score:2)
Certainly! That's why many, if not most, scientists are opposed to sending people to Mars before a rather exhaustive robotic exploration has been done.
*space* fungus? (Score:2)
besides, how high is the mir's orbit? i guess chances are that it's well within the (rapidly thinning, but still) earth's atmosphere.
Holy Crap! (Score:2)
I guess this means a manned interstellar journey is out of the question, in the near term, anyway. Such a journey would surely succumb to a choking fungi invasion long before they would reach their destination. Even the slightest mishap with contamination would spell certain doom in a matter of days or weeks. Think of the overloaded air filters trying to scrub out the dead skin cells, the little flecks of snot and spit, food and hair, all of it fit for fungi consumption. A veritable cornucopia, a veritable horn of plenty for spacewort
The only surefire means of avoiding this fate, that I can think of, is for such interstellar ships to feature a balanced ecosphere with plants, animals, microbes and insects, co-mingled with the crew quarters and the ship common areas.
This story offers up pretty solid indication that the risk of fungi infestation aboard long-term spacecraft is very real. The ecosphere ship is the only obvious solution, as mechanical filtering and sanitization services are almost garunteed failure at some point. I'll be certain to point all this out to any Hollywood writer-types I bump in to.
I hate to burst your "little plastic bubble", but (Score:3)
Copyright Violation! (Score:2)
Failure to stop this action will result in orders from Comissioner Sleer (a-la Servalan) to wipe out all organic life in a 3 million spacial radius.
Humans haven't yet faced up to the facts (Score:2)
You use soap. Antibiotics. Radiation. Ultrasound. You use vacuum. Use water and pressure. You curse them and you kill 99.9999% of them. It never matters. They survive, and they come back, and multiply again.
Quite simply, the entire Earth is completely infected with bacteria. Wherever there is a exothermic reaction on earth, they are there. Every dust partical large enough to support one has one. Every drop of water, every grain of dirt has them in abundance. All animals are covered in bacteria. Hint: you don't use soap against dirt, you use it against bacteria in dirt.
Yes we need them to survive, but we don't like that, and we don't like them. But, even in conditions which no animal can survive, like vacuum, they still infect and eat and reproduce and sometimes freeze dry to wait for water to come alive again.
The lesson here is: we are dirty, we are infected, and we always will be. Everything we build, every place we put it, every time we do it, will never be ours alone.
-Ben
Damned Duplicate! (Score:2)
Red Space Station Infested With Bugs?
Re:An embarassing metaphor... (Score:2)
Re:Space research should pay off... (Score:2)
Re:Make sure you catch the last paragraph... (Score:2)
(they don't take showers, for example)
Actually they do. Space station != shuttle.
Perhaps the space junk problem is solved? (Score:2)
Eg. A small space scarft could home in on pieces of space junk, and spray it with the fungus colture.. In a few weeks time, the space junk gets eaten, and our astronauts / cosmonuts are safer
Leonid Breznev's Sweat is Terraforming Mars (Score:2)
I'm just reading KenMcLeod's "The Sky Road" and it has a the amusing reflection that scientists arrive on mars to find it is being very slowly
terraformed by microbes descended from Leonid Bhreznev's sweat.
Re:Fecal Fungus? (Score:2)
Re:Leonid Breznev's Sweat is Terraforming Mars (Score:2)
Hmm.
What a week this has been. It isn't even over yet! (Score:2)
I'm half-anxious and half-afraid to hear what bizarre disaster is going to happen next. Watch out, someone might DDoS some Russian servers in Siberia and send some nukes coming our way! Be prepared, if there's something that history has taught us, it's the fact that sh*t happens.
An embarassing metaphor... (Score:2)
*sigh*
Abandon Mir NOW! (Score:2)
AHHHHHH!!! If this fungus is anything like the one that was in _MY_ dorm-room refrigerator, they need to abandon ship and send it to crash into Jupiter or Uranus! Towards the end I didn't even open the fridge. I threw the whole thing away. I shudder to think of what it looked like by that time. SHUDDER
Steven
Re:Amazing... life goes on... literally (Score:5)
Ever been to a Star Trek convention?
Re:Mars? (Score:2)
Visions of Heart of the Comet (Score:2)
In the novel, it turns out to be a potent force for both danger and salvation.
If the Gentle Scientists can't beat the fungus, it may be a neat move to try to find ways to make it outright useful.
I bet it's Mahlon Smith's fault! (Score:2)
Re:Actually (Score:2)
This would end up doing a spaceship -> astronaut food conversion which may not be considered in an entirely positive light by the astronauts.
Colour me clueless, but... (Score:3)
Could this pose a threat to other orbital bodies? At least Mir has residents who could do a bit of cleaning once in a while. Not so, your typical comms satelite. Space could end up looking like my kitchen; full of fuzzy dishes.
Could we use these fungi to biodegrade all the space junk that has been left daggin' about up there? Let them eat the Iridium network into safe little itty-bitty pieces. I know it's a really long term exercise, but the price is right!
Could we make fungi the first Lunar or Martian colonists, possibly even paving the way to a long-term, low-cost preliminary terraforming experiment?
While the fungus itself may not be able to exist in total vacuum, I have NO doubt that its spores could float about for many years until they land on another metal, plastic or even rock substrate. So I suspect it could spread. The onliest thing is, do we let it happen by accident, or do we make some effort to harness it?
Re:HAIL FUNGUS! (Score:2)
Is the fungus actually growing in a vaccuum? (Score:2)
Isn't NBC going to send someone to Mir? (Score:2)
Now, if it was a hoax, then I wonder how I saw a commercial for it during the closing ceremony of the Olympics. But it does seem pretty incredible to me that an _American_ company would want to send someone to a floating piece of junk. (No, wait. I said "American." Never mind..)
Haaz: Co-founder, LinuxPPC Inc., making Linux for PowerPC since 1996.
Actually (Score:2)
quick note (Score:2)
and that means more posts for you guys!
Bo-nes....we need more anti....bacterial soap!
Damnit jim, i'm a Doctor not a custodial engineer!!!
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
Re:Space 'shrooms! (Score:2)
The burning and scratching... maybe it's cause and effect...
Re:Typical (Score:2)
"The axiom 'An honest man has nothing to fear from the police'
Re:Amazing..(search for intelligent) life goes on (Score:2)
Nothing in the article states that the Fungi live on the outside of MIR. I'm not willing to make the assumption that Hemos made when writing up the header. While it's possible (even likely) for spores to survive exposure to the hard vacuum of space, the lack of an atmosphere should keep them from living in space. If they do find fungii outside, that would be major news, especially if it's growing.
--Mike--
Re:Fungi in space? (Score:2)
Do you suffer from... (Score:2)
Re:Aggressive Fungus, so they say. (Score:2)
Slime Mold Demonstrates Primitive Intelligence [slashdot.org].
Personally I see a great take off on The Planet of the Apes, where instead of human astronauts returning to Earth after eons in space, only to find apes have evolved into the dominant sentient life forms on the planet, we instead have a space ship crash to earth in the distant future carrying a mutated fungus that is now sentient (and can move freely) that takes over the Earth replacing humans as the dominant sentient life form.
Re:Amazing... life goes on... literally (Score:2)
Re:Fungi in space? (Score:2)
Space research should pay off... (Score:5)
Space laboratory for fungus-based pharmaceutical research should also be interesting - after all, with the conditions being really good for mutations, they may discover new drugs created by bacteria sooner.
The only downsides are that if these mutated bacteria/fungi turn out to be deadly and highly contagious and gets back to earth, it could spell doom for humanity. You could just see Hollywood jump on this kind of story to make the next doom-gloom movie, Armageddon and its ilk.
Make sure you catch the last paragraph... (Score:2)
This article as a whole was tantamount to "Aliens ate my Elvis baby" rubbish. It does no credit to the Globe.
It's a worry when major newspapers become so desperate for column inches they beat up what is essentially a no-story into a show stopper for the space program as a whole.
This "finding" has absolutely no relevance to a humans-to-Mars program. To put up one trivial reason: Mars-tronauts would have plentiful water as a by-product of their in-situ propellant production, thus they would be able to wash themselves and the interior of their spacecraft at will. The expense of trucking water to orbit is one reason that there is a fungus "problem" on Mir.
This reminds me strongly of that other supposed Mars mission "show stopper" - zero gravity. "We can't send humans there, because they'd come out as cripples after 18 months of zero g." BALDERDASH. There is no requirement to send them out zero g at all! A half-mile tether to the upper stage going at about 1 rpm would create mars equivalent gravity for the crew on their spacecraft - with the added advantage of being able to construct floors.
It isn't rocket science! (Well it is but you know what I mean!)
Re:Much broader implications for exobiology (Score:2)
Sources, please. What "space community" ever claimed that? Vague terms like that are weasel words. In fact, it has long been accepted that microbes may be able to traverse space, especially if encased within an object such as a meteoroid. NASA has certainly never taken this view: the Apollo astronauts underwent decontamination and medical checks. NASA scientists studying Mars lander data (Viking, Pathfinder) have warned that Earth-origin microbes could contaminate samples and skew results.
So, now that you've demolished a straw man, where's the rest of your argument?
If fungi, bacteria, etc can survive (thrive!) on the exterior of Mir,
This article did not claim that fungi were surviving on the exterior of Mir. The fungi in question are everywhere inside Mir, which like most spacecraft, is actually warm (heat dissipation is always a key issue) and wet (partly sweat, mostly humidity from breathing). Essentially, the interior of Mir is not far from that of a steam bath, and you know how well fungi can grow in even a regular bathroom or shower.
why not on Mars? Are the environments really all that different?
Actually, most scientists already believe that because everywhere we've explored on Earth has life, no matter how extreme the environment, that the prospects for life on Mars remain quite high. This spacecraft-internal fungus doesn't really change that view much.
Second, what if a probe (or people, someday) sent to Mars isn't properly sterile, and we expose the surface to mold/bacteria from Earth? That would confuse and cast doubt on any findings regarding Mars' biology. Suppose we did find evidence of mold on Mars. How do we know it originated there, and didn't just hitch a ride from Earth? I wonder if they've really thought about that.
As I've noted, they have definitely thought of that. Sterilization is a required component of any lander mission. Spacecraft on earth are kept in a "clean room" environment and contamination of experiments is an omnipresent concern for the scientists.
Even so, there would be experiments that could be done to compare the make-up of whatever mold etc. may be found. If two spacecraft sent to different Mars locations turned up exactly the same mold, and that mold were very similar to an Earth mold, the immediate concern would be that both spacecraft were contaminated and cross-checks would need to be done. On the other hand, NASA is already working on the possibility that microbial life has been transported from Earth to Mars, or vice versa, and back again, at numerous times in the past. Certainly the possibility seems much stronger now than it has in the past, given the suggestive meteorite evidence.
----
HAIL FUNGUS! (Score:4)
And I, for one, welcome our new fungal overlords. I'd like to remind them that as a trusted website,
(appologies to the Simpsons writers, i just couldn't resist..)
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If only they were truffles (Score:2)
Golgafrinchans! (Score:2)
---
Re:Fungi in space? (Score:2)
[Scene: MIR]
Ooops! Boris just opened up the airlock agai --- SCHOOOOOOMMMMPPPPPPPPP.
[Begin unsettling silence]
Re:Is the fungus actually growing in a vaccuum? (Score:2)
And to think, I wanted a chance to go to MIR. Oh well.
The Outer Reaches of Life (Score:2)
Danny.
Re:Space research should pay off... (Score:2)
Tell me about it.. (Score:2)
---
It's not really "space fungus"... (Score:5)
Sounds to me like the stuff was on the station before it ever got into space. Like FreeMars said, there's nothing in the article that mentions any fungus growing outside the station.
(still, wouldn't it be a little disappointing if the first "attack" by an extraterrestrial organism was a fungus?)
Life cycle (Score:2)
Of course! (Score:5)
Anaerobic bacteria thrive in the absence of oxygen.
The most notable anaerobic process is probably alcoholic fermentation, in which yeast (an anaerobic bacterium) converts sugar into alcohol and carbon dioxide. If you've ever been anywhere where they make alcohol, such as the Jack Daniels distillery in Lynchburg, TN (I live down the road from it!), and leaned over the vats very far, you can't breathe because of the massive amounts of carbon dioxide produced by the fermentation process. Not to mention it smells terrible.
Probably the most familiar aerobic fermentation is lactic fermentation, which occurs within muscle tissue (as well as other places, like milk, yuck!). A saccharine (such as glucose) is converted into lactic acid, which builds up in the muscle tissue as oxygen is supplied during excercise. It is this build-up of lactic acid that causes muscles to be sore after exercise.
So, yes, this form of life can live in a vacuum. If they break down plastics and metals, I wonder what type of chemical reaction takes place, what type of fermentation is going on. It may be possible to use the byproducts of this fermentations to our advantage.
Mike
"I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer."
It's those dammed Puppeteers... (Score:2)
Recall that the ringworld was in a state of civilizational collapse when it was discovered. The cause? The Puppeteer [demon.co.uk] race was so terrified of the race that created the Ringworld that they launched a nasty space-fungus that devoured the materials of the high-tech devices there. Voila; the downfall of a possibly threatening civilization.
Hmmm...
Re:Is the fungus actually growing in a vaccuum? (Score:2)
Reed Richards gained the ability to stretch his entire body into bizzare forms. Sue became able to turn invisible at will. Johnny was transformed into a flaming human torch. And Ben was transformed into a hulking, rock-covered beast. They returned to Earth as the Fantastic Four.
Who knows what may become of this seemingly harmless 'space mold'...
Comment removed (Score:3)
they should sellt his stuff! + other wisdom (Score:3)
on the serious side, I don't think ths is the first time something like this has happened, I seem to recall a strain of yeast had mutated and was able to metabolize the plastic bags it was sold in. Yeast is pretty advanced stuff -- it can skip from aerobic to anerobic resperation (with oxygen / without oxygen) in a few minutes. (this is how beer produces yeast in a beer bottle with no oxygen) ... if yeast can do that, who knows what fungus can do!
Re: (Score:2)
Breaking news (Score:3)
Much broader implications for exobiology (Score:4)
This has two separate but related implications on the search for microbial life (live, remains, fossils) on Mars. First, it opens the possibility that some area of Mars that we haven't explored closely (ie, a lot) may contain evidence of past/present life. Second, what if a probe (or people, someday) sent to Mars isn't properly sterile, and we expose the surface to mold/bacteria from Earth? That would confuse and cast doubt on any findings regarding Mars' biology. Suppose we did find evidence of mold on Mars. How do we know it originated there, and didn't just hitch a ride from Earth?
I wonder if they've really thought about that.
Re:Of course! (Score:2)
The fungus *isn't* outside (Score:2)
Tom
FUNGUS AMONG US! (Score:2)
Sample quote from the article summary:
"By the time we get done, we have to walk away from everything we own, the lost profits, the medical and health costs--it will be well over $300,000, possibly $500,000," she said.
Some experts weren't surprised by Pheatt's findings.They say houses, offices and classrooms around the country have had problems with toxic mold. In Austin, Texas, last month, an elementary school was closed after officials found mold in the walls.
Outside scientists said that while they have not examined the Job Journal employees, the symptoms they described have been linked to the three strains of mold.
end quote
It appears that the 3 strains are the same ones mentioned in the article on Mir.
This is some serious shit here. As for why the business operators of Mir seem to be minimizing this, interesting question.
Note that the group in the office that got hammered was generally there during regular business hours, they weren't sealed in an air tank with the fungi and they still had serious consequences, not all of which were discussed in the article summary.
I'm trying to contact the publisher for more information.
Red Hat 7 Infested With Space Fungus! (Score:3)
Useful link (Score:5)
Space Fungus: A Menace to Orbital Habitats [space.com]
with pictures of damage. Also somewhat more informative.