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Interview with Kevin Warwick
Posted by
Hemos
on Fri Sep 24, 1999 07:23 AM
from the we-have-the-tools-we-have-the-power dept.
from the we-have-the-tools-we-have-the-power dept.
nicole pointed out a recent interview with Kevin Warwick, the professor of cybernetics that had a microchip implanted into his arm about a year ago. Cogent comments about cybernetics as well as the whole experience - including his plans for a bigger experiment within the next couple years.
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Super powers (Score:2)
Why stop at a microchip? (Score:2)
I want nanoprobes in my bloodstream, augmented vision, tubes sticking out of the back of my head and a massive great gun for a right arm.
-Stephen of Borg
Re:Super powers (Score:2)
I mean the commercial possibilities would be enourmous, although the porn companies would probably go out of business - Networking compaines would boom, however *grin*
Implants (Score:3)
I want my cellphone hardwired to my brain.
I want to have Unreal sent directly to my optic nerves.
I want maps, phone directories, news, even
I want a health monitoring system that can e-mail my doctor when I am sick.
I want(need) a blood alcohol checker.
I know some of you are thinking "Dear God, who am I going to let program something that goes INSIDE ME?"
I ask you this: You run buggy software. You have workarounds for your hardware. You complain night and day about the companies that don't do what you want. Would you have it any other way?
No, of course not. You love the technology or would wouldn't be a geek.
Implants are the future.
I wish I had been born later, so that I would be able to see more...
Security issues (Score:2)
I'd rather have my wallet nicked than my arm ripped off...
Re:Why stop at a microchip? (Score:1)
Computers are becoming more and more important in our lives, to me, this just seems to be a natural progression.
Although I suppose alot of people would probably consider my stand on this subject somewhat strange.
Why stop at a bloody big gun (Score:2)
I want funny blue numbers across the top of my vision and a green target sight. And, I want to talk in a menacing sounding way. And, when I download updated killing algorithms from Master Global Corp's CyberNet, I want to stand really still with my head at a slight angle.
Plus, I want flesh that withstands extremes of hot and cold, and a copy of the British Library on minidisc that I can slide into a slot on the back of my neck.
Finally, I want a subtle logic bug that will be discovered by a 12 year old kid who will thus disable me save his cute pet dog, his mom and the whole world (in that order).
Apparently, all this will be possible in 50 years, and it'll replace plasic surgery and novely hats as the pastime of the rich and stupid.
BUT, only if you study cybernetics at reading. Hey Tom Hume, ever meet this guy?
Doing research.... (Score:2)
General Thoughts (Score:4)
Warwick is effusive about the possibilities and has even suggested that gun owners could get implanted to keep them from entering schools or other areas where heavily armed people may be unwelcome.
That bit looks rather stupid and is probably taken out of context...
We were never experimenting about the long term medical durability of the implant.
All of our experimentation, which was very successful, was carried out within the 9 days.
The implant was not actually designed to fit into the human body. It was in a glass capsule which could have broken or even exploded. It was, therefore, a trifle dangerous!
And that's why it's no big deal.. What the article says is something about "rejection" by the body... But how the hell is that going to happen in nine days? He even admits that it wasn't long term.. Still cool.
We want to investigate the interaction between signals to and from the human brain and computer. The next experiment will effectively provide an electronic short-circuit between the two. I really cannot see the need for keyboards or a computer mouse when such an implant is in position.
Seriously? In two YEARS? Hmmm.. I'd want more details before I'd believe THAT... Of course, if he's just hooking it in so he can read some brain signals, that's fine. Probably would be unable to decode them or anything, but then again, who needs to? Just learn to control the signal using your brain. Feedback is a wonderful thing.
I do not believe a student of Computer Science typically (there are obviously exceptions) gets a good idea of the true power of computers and how they can interact with the world about them.
As a computer science graduate, I find myself offended, but I see his point. Most CS people don't have a clue, being fit, IMHO, only for data entry.
But the uber-geeks I think are the true pioneers. The guys that hang in the Sun labs all day, who rewire the phone systems to auto-dial pizza joints.. These are the people that really understand the computers interaction with the world around them. Of course, we've always got good ol' Al Gore, the man who "invented the internet."
Do you have any advice for someone like myself who is interested in Biotechnology and Cybernetics?
...
(iii) Buy my book "In the Mind of the Machine".
This guy's practical. I like it.
---
Our cat had an chip implanted 2 years ago (Score:2)
I don't enviseage having lights turn on for her when she enters a room, but it would not be difficult to do.
Re:Why stop at a microchip? (Score:1)
Then they are lying on the floor, frozen, maybe uttering something over and over like they were Max Headroom. "Catch-catch-catch the wave!"
Then you can beat the hell out of them, then reset them, and they'll have no clue what hit them.
Maybe this cyberimplantation is not the best idea - but it would be fun ;o)
----
Re:Speaking of guns and microchips. (Score:1)
Then somebody would scan to prevent the legal owners of registered weapons from going to their kids' concerts in the school auditorium, by scanning for their chips, as Warwick says.
And of course, hacked (and legacy!) guns will be available on the black market, and all we do is restrict the law-abiding folk.
But then again, that's all we ever do.
Ender's Game (Score:1)
Re:Why stop at a bloody big gun (Score:1)
Last I heard he was predicting that AI's would be more intellegant than humans in a few years; and that they'd take over from humans as the dominant intellegance on the planet.
Oh, won't we laugh when we watch the old low-res 2D pictures on our optical implants...I don't think.
Re:General Thoughts (Score:1)
This guy's practical. I like it.
He's a notorious self publicist.
Radio+CS+Cyber+Nano=2020? (Score:2)
(Optimism, but that is a necessity!)
(High morale, open sourcing)
Jacking in is what we will be looking into at Reading in the next experiment. - This implies some kind of interaction between neural activity and digital machinery, now doesn't it? That certainly is the bottleneck in subtle mind control of our environments.
Now where can I get my construction kit, please?
It'll be interesting to live in the cyberage, seeing so surprisingly many of the visions of cyberpunk emerge. The future seems grand, even if only for dirt-rich westerners at first (global equalization, anyone?).
Re:Crazed Religious Paranoia (Score:1)
Bit late to start worrying about that now. All the progress made in the last century or so has made many people's lives easier. It's also reduced their freedom. Thats what laws and stuff do. Progress is made, freedom is lost. Go with the flow or risk being flattened in its wake.
Maybe just a touch of hype? (Score:3)
As to interfacing directly to the brain, perhaps, but very possibly won't be much use to any of us. Restoring visual input to the brain in later life does little good, the brain never learns to sort it out and process it efficiently. Works fine if you restore it at an early age when the brain is still growing. Language acquisition is also something that only works well at a very young age. Learning to process high bandwidth input might also need to be done when very young. I'm sure people will be eager to volunteer their very young children for this. Not.
I don't think our technology is up to designing implants that last a lifetime yet either. Upgrades and repairs are unusually painful here. Bit disorienting when reality bluescreens on you while driving...
Maybe I'm just too old or something.
Great: Brain viruses! (Score:1)
A trojan-horse like this sounds pretty cool but... if one could just write the eqvivalent of BO2k then...
LINUX stands for: Linux Inux Nux Ux X
Re:(Implants) as long as it doesn't run Windows (Score:1)
Re:General Thoughts (Score:1)
What the article says is something about "rejection" by the body... But how the hell is that going to happen in nine days?
IANAD, but in my limited experience of knowing people who've had kidney transplants and various prosthetics, rejection is something that happens frighteningly quickly. Even if no symptoms showed up in nine days, I would guess that blood and tissue tests would be able to show pretty quickly whether the chip had been identified as "other" and attacked by the immune system. Although I must say that talk of "rejection" in the context of a non-organic implant doesn't exactly make that clear ringing sound of truth in my head.
Please, correct me if I'm wrong.
jsm
Remote Control Cat? (Score:1)
So, I guess the technology is almost there in a rudimentary sense; I also recall that researchers managed to get human brain cells to bond & grow on silicon wafers not too long ago, as well. Imagine it if you could augment your memory with as much DRAM as you could afford! And you'd never have to drink to forget, just flush the RAM! Uh oh - just realised the flaw in the plan - you could have perfect clarity of the night before when you danced drunk and naked across the bar...:) And worse still, other people could play their memories of it back to you!
Whatever your beliefs about 666 and all that, I think there are a number of big ethical hurdles way before the technology will be usable and theologists start getting worked up. With all the research that still needs to be done, there's never been a worse time to be a Rhesus monkey...
The Current State of Cybernetics (Score:4)
A) Video: We have direct cortex implants that supply low res/approx 640x480, and we have the beginings of artificial retinas, which could have video piped into them.
B) Communication: The power requirements/broadcast range of the new ultra-wide spectrum burst tech is perfect for this kind of stuff. Small and Strong.
C) Output: We have the beginnings of direct brain implanted output, though the main researcher in that field understands lots of nuroscience and little CS, so he isn't makeing real good use of the channels he is setting up. We also have implantable "nerve sensors" for lack of a better word, that have been developed to drive prostetics, that don't go anywhere near the brain, and could be put in a healthy system, just to grab its output.
D) Audio: Actually, weve had audio for decades, as it's REALLY easy, just tag a voltage source onto the audio nerve.
We have all the pieces, it seems, but why don't we have cybernetics yet? Well, take a look at What We Don't Have:
A) Power: We need a good implantable power source, be it a long term battery, a really good thermocouple, or an expansion-generating polymer run alongside a muscle to grab a little juice when you extend.
B) Community: THe developers working on the parts in different fields are not yet treating them as "parts" and aren't really talking yet. We need more cross-field communication.
C) Miniturization: While we have all this neat tech, it is simply to big right now to think about an integrated system.
How We Will Get It:
A) The Disabled: As much as I may claim I need a Jack, my doctor doesn't believe me. But Parapalegics have a MUCH better case, and between them and the blind, we have a large population that has a genuine need for this kind of equipment.
B) Insurance Companys: That large population cost certain people a great deal of money, and anything which reduces that cost, is considered a GOOD thing, so insurance companys have and will continue finacning research into this field.
C) The Law: I don't care who you are, you can't say NO to a blind crippled baby and stay in office, so no one will outlaw this kind of tech, and it will mature.
D) Crazy Hackers: And then I will go and get some, and just like the comercialization of breast implants, I will keep going to different doctors until I find one who will say "YES".
-Crutcher
Re:Implants (Score:1)
Please tell me you're being sarcastic. You cannot be this naive.
I ask you this: You run buggy software. You have workarounds for your hardware. You complain night and day about the companies that don't do what you want. Would you have it any other way?
Welcome to (the govt. required) WinChip 2010
please wait
please wait
please wait
Time to ramble (Score:3)
If you are "jacked in" and have the sum of human knowledge accessible to you as memory (not manual retrievel, but simply *already* knowing it) and experience the wildest fantasies imaginable, then what precisely will we do?
Will we live for pleasure, forever flipping between more and more exotic porn sessions and ever more fantastic scifi fantasy role-plays? Who wouldn't want to lose themselves in a truly believable Elite scenario?
Or will we live for pure research? Medical, IT, Space or Physics? Like Hell we will
Could you imagine the vast numbers of couch potatoes doing anything other than spending 24 hours inline? (yes, inline, copyright me, friday afternoon just back from the pub) I can't. Will it get to the point where everyone with a modicum of intelligence is obliated under law to maintain the system for the vast, stupid majority? Simply having the sum of human knowledge available isn't enough; you need to be motivated to actually use it.
What sort of people will grow up in this kind of society? Spoilt rotten retards probably.
Who'll pay for all this? You can bet that the likes of the big entertainment companies must be salivating at the prospect of a subscription from everyone on the planet.
What happens to capitalism when noone wants to buy material goods because they can have anything online?
What's the point of living like someone in those pods depicted in the Matrix?
Will anyone spend any time in real life? How many
It'll be a morlock/eloi hell. Don't try to tell me otherwise.
Re:Great: Brain viruses! (Score:1)
It strikes me that if you combined the mental powers of the world's top ten professors of Anglo-Saxon literature into a sort of distributed human processing system, it might be possible to translate some of the more obscure parts of the early English sagas. I even have a name for the project
sorry about that.
jsm
oh my God, he's owns guns (Score:1)
get implanted to keep them from entering schools or other areas where heavily armed people may be unwelcome.
The idea that Warwick has to implant all gun owners so they cannot enter a school is ludicrous.
I HATE seeing this kind of stuff get thrown around. Noone has the right to tell me that I cannot go somewhere simply because I am a gun owner. This guy can kiss my *$&.
Re:Speaking of guns and microchips. (Score:2)
Re:Kevin's 'Chip' (Score:2)
The chip had a RF loop in it to control door and his computer.
More intereting would have been plan A where they were going to implant it in my friend belly button. (Catherine is a bit into having the odd bit pierces) But I think the publicity of old professor preying on the only female engineer in department probably put him of.
(PS I graduated from Reading two years ago in Human Cybernetics... hence I know a thing or two!)
Could a permanent implant be turned off? (Score:1)
There is a company that will soon be going into a beta-testing phase for a chip that is implanted in your hand. The basic idea is that it acts like an ATM card, but it's right there in your hand. I considered signing up, but then a question struck me: why do I want to be so readily indentified?
I mean, sure, the ATM thing probably only works when you *want* to be identified (i.e., you put your hand near a reader/scanner/whatever). But the first paragraph of the story talks about how he was recognized *as he walked into a room*.
If I had an implant of such a nature, I would most definitely want some way to stop the device from transmitting, at least temporarily.
After all, when I'm rich and famous, I *still* might want to go incognito-- or post anonymously, at least...
Re:Crazed Religious Paranoia (Score:1)
Go with the flow or risk being flattened in its wake.
This is a scary comment. Go with whose flow? Who do you think comes up with this stuff? Some ethereal 'them'? If you always leave the decisions to someone else, than what you say is true. This is not how sentient humans should want to live.
Once you move out of mom and dads house, you may have a different opinion about who has the right to make decisions about you.
Mad Professor Kevin, as we like to call him. (Score:1)
After having read his books, two about robots killing us all and taking over the world, and having recently graduated from the University of Reading, I feel it is my duty to warn
When we all graduated he wished us all good luck! Then is was pointed out that the robots would rise up and crush us early on in the next centurary so we didn't have anthing to live for!
Indeed based on his books we will all be in termination camps before the chips come on line.
Still he is very entertaining to watch teach. And has the best range of shirts! And is very funny.
Re:oh my God, he's owns guns (Score:1)
Re:General Thoughts (Score:1)
I think (part of) the reasoning behind the 10 day limit was to limit risk of having the glass capsule shatter. He did mention that as a concern.
Re:Remote Control Cat? (Score:1)
Re:Crazed Religious Paranoia (Score:1)
I never said it was a good thing. I wish we could all just do as we please without any restrictions on freedom. But we cannot. A modern society will not function that way. I'm just being a realist here.
Take the car. When it first arrived on the scene, you could just hop in and drive where you damn well pleased. No license, no restrictions. I'd like to see you try that now. In that respect, modern society has resticted your options. You can no longer exercise your freedom in that area. I realise its a greatly simplified example, but it holds true in several cases.
Yes it sucks, but no-one ever said it wouldn't.
I fear I am too old for this (Score:2)
>I want to have Unreal sent directly to my optic nerves.
>I want maps, phone directories, news, even
>I want a health monitoring system that can e-mail my doctor when I am sick.
I want(need) a blood alcohol checker.
I think I will only be able to master the most crude form of these implants, artificial interfaces with simple controls (HUD displays and such). The only way to learn how to use implants like you described is probably have them implanted right after birth. Think of these cyber implants as extra organs with more possibilities than any of the organs you have now.
It would take the learningcurve of a child to efficiently use these implants, after all: there's only so much new tricks an old dog can learn.
As I see it the only way around this for me is create a full "Matrix-like" VR enviroment and me vegetating in a clinicd.
(With the possible exeption of alcohol monitor alike devices which do not require interaction. But they definitely lack the cool factor of the other possibilities.)
--
two-thousand-zero-zero
party over, it's out of time
More Kevin Warwick (Score:1)
Imagine the possibilities (Score:1)
Hmmm....
-- Moondog
Off-Topic (I wish!): "The Mark of the Beast" (Score:1)
Well, that's one theory.
More precisely, this is the Pre-Tribulation Rapture model, which is a particular millenialist interpretation of Revelation. While this model has been heavily popularized in the last few decades (esp. by Hal Lindsey [amazon.com], A Thief in the Night [imdb.com], and more recently LaHaye and Jenkin's "Left Behind" [amazon.com] series ), it's not even the only millenialist interpretation, much less the only Christian understanding, of Revelation.
For those who aren't theology nerds like me, eschatological (== "concerning the end of things") theories can be divided into at least two groups, "millenial" and "amillenial", depending on how they view the thousand-year reign of Christ described in Revelation 20. Millenialists insist that the 1000 years is to be understood literally, and generally insist on (a) as literal as possible an understanding of Revelation and other end-time prophecies of Scripture, and (b) that Revelation and related passages are only applicable to this end period of history. Within the millenialist camp, you can find Pre-Trib, Post-Trip, and even Mid-Trib Rapture theories.
Amillenialists are then distinguished by not being millenialists. I don't know the amillenial theories as well, but in general it is understood that much of Revelation is (a) symbolic (b) applicable to more than one generation in history (although most applicable to the final generation).
Historically, the millenialist viewpoint is relatively recent, originating in various fundamentalist/evangelical Protestant groups (and in the English world, at that), within the last 150 years. Most of Christianity, for most of Christian history, has been amillenialist.
And yes, I tend to be an amillenialist these days myself. For an excellent novel portraying a non-Rapture-first end times, see Father Elijah: An Apocalyspe [amazon.com]. Like all good apocalypses, it is at least as much about today as about the future.
What does this have to do with cybernetics?
Good question. The answer is that some Christians have speculated that the "mark" mentioned in Revelation 13:11-18 could, given current technology and society, be literally implemented as, for example, a tattooed barcode or implanted chip. Set up the economy so that it's illegal, or at least practically possible, "so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark" (Rev. 13:17). As opposed to earlier days, which relied on cruder methods of citizen control and loyalty assurance such as requiring a pinch of incense be burned to the Emperor under pain of death (what Christians were experiencing when Revelation was written).
Personally, while Warwick seems like Yet Another Scientist In Disinterested Pursuit of KnowledgeTM, I don't think that where he's going with cybernetics is necessarily a good direction. Implanted RF locators? I can flip the lights on myself, thank you very much. This would give both State and Corporation intelligence powers that Nero could only dream of. And brain/computer direct links, thought-to-thought communication? Great, so now detecting thoughtcrime [amazon.com] would become technologically feasible. Big Brother [amazon.com] will be so happy with this developement.
But this should be opposed because it's bad and wrong, not because it might fulfill the prophecy about the "mark." It will be tough to tell when exactly the Last Days will be -- Jesus himself didn't know, and told his disciples not to believe everyone who yelled "it's here! it's now!". But we can figure out if something is a good or a bad thing in the meantime.
Re:Imagine the possibilities (Score:1)
Would it be an invasion of privacy to scan everybody's implants to see if they are carrying crypto (or other regulated information)?
Wayne
I know this guy... (Score:2)
Likeable enough guy (except for his insistance of reciting Skoda "jokes" during lectures) but like many academics, doesn't quite live in the land of reality.
Lets put things in perspective. The capsule which was injected in to his arm is no more different than the ID capsules you can have injected in to your cat or dog. The range is very poor - a couple of centimeters at best.
Personally - I think it is a lot of noise generated about nothing really new. If that capsule could report infomation such as blood tempreture and heart-beat rate... *Then* it is something to report about.
There, I've said it. My 2 pence worth...
Re:Remote Control Cat? (Score:1)
I don't agree with animal testing either, but I think the moral and ethical issues here are extremely wide ranging, and to simply condemn a breaking technology such as this as "evil" is dangerously shortsighted.
Implants to foil kidnappers (Score:1)
and
http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/et?ac=00120274134
and falling for them hook, line and sinker, I emailed Dr. Warwick for information. He promptly responded and said he'd heard a lot about it but had been unable to confirm the rumours.
Undoubtedly a hoax, but still it has interesting possibilities.
Morel
Re:Speaking of guns and microchips. (Score:1)
Guns requiring implants is such a great idea.
>If I'm getting an electronic implant, I better have full control over whether or not it goes in, when it comes out, and what goes in it.
Well if I'm getting bullet implants, I better have full control over whether or not it goes in, when it comes out, and what goes in it.
If you don't want an implant, don't get a gun.
Re:Mad Professor Kevin, as we like to call him. (Score:1)
having recently graduated from the University of Reading
I graduated from the University of Reading a few years ago, after doing a course in Cybernetics and Computer Science. Prof. Warwick is quite a competent PR person as well as a competent professor.
Indeed based on his books we will all be in termination camps before the chips come on line.
What you have to remember is that he's attempting to gain publicity. By taking predictions to their extreme, he can gain far more exposure and provoke more reaction than if he simply came out and said what was more likely.
Some of the things the department have done are more mundane-sounding but ultimately more useful. Now, I've not been there in years, and I don't know what they're doing now, so the focus of the department and the research may have changed. They have, however, produced a series of things that may be more prevailant in the long run:
... the list goes on, mainly in autonomous control systems, but without someone at the front proclaiming they can reach for the stars, they'll never receive the budget to get a few feet off the ground.
And has the best range of shirts!
And Dr Mitchell had the weirdest range ;)
S.Re:oh my God, he's owns guns (Score:2)
1. he's a head-in-the-clouds academic.
2. he's from the UK
The attitude towards gun in the UK is completely different from that in UK. Don't try and parse his comments in terms of the NRA vs Handgun Control Inc. gun ownership is a "right" debate.
In the UK the overwhelming majority of people think that handguns have no legitimate place in society.
Im not trying to comment on the relative merits of the US or UK approach to guns, Im just trying to put the guys comments in context!
VBP (Score:2)
VBP (Visual Basic for People)
Think of it... You could knock up a macros to automate those tedious tasks. Guys, no more need to lift that toilet seat, just implement...
function HaveAnAccurateSlash() as liquid
...and the girls would never know. Even works when you are lagered out of your head.
The possibilities are endless.
My major worry is macro viruses and unauthorised rewrites. Consider, you're lagered up, your tongue is a bit loose, ..and one of your friends manages to wangle your access code out of you.
We now get...
function HaveAnAccurateSlash() as liquid
Call RevealTackle
do While StillNeedSlash
Direction = Rnd
DoEvents
loop
call HideTackle
call LeaveToilet
ShortTermMemory.Wipe
end sub
Re:The Current State of Cybernetics (Score:2)
A) Video: We have direct cortex implants that supply low res/approx 640x480, and we have the beginings of artificial retinas, which could have video piped into them.
Now, don't get me wrong - I realize that there are such things in existance, but the last I saw of a "direct cortex implant" had a very meager resolution - only about 64 x 64. This was good enough for the user to "see" shapes and letters, but not good enough for general vision.
In fact, if what you say actually exists, I would think that someone who had the use of a 640 x 480 level of res would actually see in a useful manner - even if it was only a 1-bit per pixel system (in the way that devices I have seen are), they might be able to read a book if it was held close to the camera input...
So tell me, do you have a link or other information on this tech?
Gun Deaths (Score:2)
I would argue that the 28X higher murder rate in the US is, at least in part, due to easy access to guns (especially handguns)
It sems to me that the UK doesn't have the "same problems" as the US.
Now having said that I don't beleive UK style gun control could work in the US. The attitude of people at large is very different. The vast majority of people in the UK see no legitimate need for private handgun control. The same cannot be said for the US. Many people in the US beleive that hand gun ownership is a good thing.
The majority of gun owners in the US are also responsible people who do not commit crimes. It would be very hard to convince such people that banning handguns is a good idea. Indeed in the US it probably isn't because not only are there a huge number of guns out there, in many places they aren't registered or liscenced in anyway so there would be no way implement such a ban.