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SpaceShipTwo Mothership Makes Maiden Flight
Posted by
kdawson
on Sun Dec 21, 2008 04:59 PM
from the like-a-virgin dept.
from the like-a-virgin dept.
RobGoldsmith writes "Earlier this week images were appearing on the Net showing the WhiteKnightTwo craft doing some tests in Mojave. The earliest tests showed perhaps two of the engines being used, while a later test showed all the engines working and some further testing. Today the four Pratt & Whitney Canada PW308A engines finally carried the craft into the air. The maiden flight of the WhiteKnightTwo lasted just shy of one hour and happened today at around 08:15 local time, at Mojave air and spaceport. Rumors suggest that a Beechcraft King Air was used for a chase plane. The craft will be used to position Virgin Galactic's SpaceShipTwo craft to fly into space; this is estimated to happen around 2010."
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Virgin Galactic Signs Historic Lease Agreement 49 comments
RobGoldsmith writes "Governor Bill Richardson today announced that Virgin Galactic has signed a 20-year lease agreement with the State of New Mexico. Virgin Galactic's world headquarters will be established in New Mexico and its operations will be located at New Mexico's Spaceport America, the nation's first purpose-built commercial spaceport. The signing of the lease agreement coincides with the beginning of the test flying program for Virgin Galactic's WhiteKnightTwo launch vehicle which got underway this month in Mojave, CA. The WhiteKnightTwo will serve as the mother ship for SpaceShipTwo, the vehicle that will carry commercial astronauts into sub-orbital space from Spaceport America."
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Beauty of Capitalism (Score:2)
I do not eat babies (Score:2, Funny)
I am a socialist and I approve of this message
Re:Beauty of Capitalism (Score:5, Insightful)
The field of personal space travel is opening up!
This is the beauty of capitalism.
And it's only just getting there over 50 years after socialism did it.
Both socialism and capitalism have their places. Capitalism wouldn't have gotten us to the Moon in the 60s. Socialism won't get the masses into space in the 10s. A healthy society has a balance of both.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
If I had mod points... *shakes fist*
You pretty much hit the nail on the head.
Re:Beauty of Capitalism (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Beauty of Capitalism (Score:4, Insightful)
You're talking about motive. I'm talking about economics.
The economic system that took us to the Moon was socialism. The economic system that is launching Virgin Galactic is capitalism.
Apollo was very much about nationalism and militarism, as you stated. It was also about exploration, science and futurism (although those alone, I suspect, would not have sufficed to draw the needed budget). But regardless the motive, it was *only* possible, during the 60s (and even to this very day) as a socialist endeavor.
Parent
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Quite well said. The proof is in the pudding... the initial space pursuit was between a capitalist country and a communist country.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
To me it is plainly ludicrous to think that free market capitalism will contribute toward space exploration in any meaningful way - unless you seriously think that pleasure trips into low earth orbit for rich individuals are what its all about that is.
The only way that capitalism can really help out here is by continuing to wreck the planet to such an extent that people need to buy themselves an escape. Even here there is the problem that the inability of capitalism to see or plan ahead is what makes them s
Re:Beauty of Capitalism (Score:4, Insightful)
so true. the private sector won't invest in fundamental research or new and yet unproven technology. that's why you need public research to do these things that push society forward.
nothing has prevented private companies from investing in space research/travel in the past 4-5 decades. they just chose not to because it wasn't seen as "financially viable." and if we'd simply waited for the private sector to develop space technology then we would never have gotten GPS, communications satellites, interplanetary probes, the Hubble Space Telescope, etc.
but now that public research has paved the way for commercial space travel, companies like Virgin Galactic can use public research and the technology developed through public funding in order to commercialize space.
Parent
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nothing has prevented private companies from investing in space research/travel in the past 4-5 decades.
Actually, there are documented cases of government obstructionism throughout the past decades. NASA used to launch commercial satellites on Shuttle. How can you field a commercial space launch company in an environment where you have to compete with government for scarce payloads available ?
Beal Aerospace [bealaerospace.com] was basically forced out of the market, read their parting statement on the very webpage.
AAS program
Re:Beauty of Capitalism (Score:4, Insightful)
if you want to call the existence of NASA "government obstructionism" then, sure. but that hasn't stopped companies like Sea Launch [wikipedia.org] or FedEx from competing with government services.
that same argument has pretty much been used to lobby for the privatization of all kinds of public infrastructure, which is generally at a detriment to society. you want NASA to stop launching satellites just so an uncompetitive commercial company can have a chance to profit unobstructed, or do you want the government to push technological progress (including commercial technology as well as vital public infrastructure) forward?
Parent
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that same argument has pretty much been used to lobby for the privatization of all kinds of public infrastructure, which is generally at a detriment to society.
Cite please so I can pick it apart for you.
NASA has a long history of interference. In addition, to trying to grab commercial payloads in the early 80's to fill out the Shuttle manifest, they helped create an oligopoly of commercial launch providers from the 80's through to mid 90's. There was for a time single launchers in significant launch categories. I don't remember the breakdown any more, but there were single rockets in virtually all of the US's launch market niches from the Pegasus up to Space Shutt
Re:Beauty of Capitalism (Score:5, Informative)
the Toyota Prius is hardly fundamental research or cutting-edge technology. however, the Japanese government did invest in Toyota's hybrid gas-electric technology, purportedly subsidizing 100% of its development cost [autospies.com].
so while there's no Toyota Government Agency, Japan does however have:
and their government actively funds science and public research through these organizations. the Japanese government also owns a large (1/3rd) share of their national ISP/telecom, NTT (Nippon Telegraph and Telephone). and this kind of active support and funding of technology is why Japan has become a global technology leader. it's also why Japan is leading the world in FttH deployment and its citizens have access to 1 Gbps symmetric broadband connections for $0.057 per Mbps, whereas Comcast is charging $3.00 per Mbps for asymmetric "wideband" connections.
Parent
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I totally agree, but I think that the best way to do this is build the balance into the economic system by making a time based community credit system.
I made video about it to googles 10^100 project.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ_jyLEvCds [youtube.com]
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Any money system is inherently a time based community credit system. Everyone already buys and sells their time. The two new features of your system would be that wealth was a public record. This might be interesting, but a lot of cultures simply do not work well knowing that someone has a lot more wealth than another. Kidnapping, theft, etc are as I see it common crimes when wealth is known. I think the criminal element will find some way to launder the profits from crime.
Second, the idea that people can c
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Well, you shouldn't analyze the two features in isolation.
That the is no credit limit means that crimes dosn't pay. It better to use the credit than risk beening cut in a crime.
The time, public record and peer presure will help limit the inflation.
With abstract value measure like $ the value can fluctuate. When you use a concrete standard like time, there is no room for fluctuation. 1 minute is 1 minute for everyone.
Also that there is a public record means
that there is a peer presure, so you might hear for
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Stop me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it the capitalists who reached the Moon? The Socialists were the first in orbit, but could never get the N1 rocket working right so they never sent cosmonauts beyond LEO.
Re:Beauty of Capitalism (Score:5, Interesting)
Capitalism is hardly responsible for it. No private company did this, until the Ansari X Prize subsidized them. That prize money was donated, making SS1 of charitable origins. Capitalism is anything but charitable. In fact, between the charity money and the academic foundation that dreamed up the whole thing, it's closer to a centralised, socialist model.
"Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men, for the nastiest of reasons, will somehow work for the benefit of us all." -- John Maynard Keynes
Parent
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That's more or less a happy coincidence. Rutan didn't set out to create spacecraft for the sake of winning the X Prize, nor could it, since it didn't exist when he started. Not to mention that the 1 Million price wouldn't be very much motivation... It was only shortly before Rutan's team was practically ready to launch that Ansari stepped in a ballooned the cash prize into something respectable. At most, the X Prize nominally sped-up
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Everything since then has been purely, undeniably, capitalistic. Richard Branson isn't paying to develop a fleet for the sake of some subsidy, somewhere.
Probably not, no. What Branson may be doing is underwriting a future where commercial carriers can make the hop from New York to Sydney in an hour or two, and he isn't waiting for Boeing to come up with the answer. He does run an airline, remember, and is known for being a bit of a visionary. It's an investment in an SST that doesn't go boom.
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We didn't have D. D. Harriman in this timeline. :(
Capitalism doesn't mean that (Score:2, Informative)
No private company did this, until the Ansari X Prize subsidized them. That prize money was donated, making SS1 of charitable origins. Capitalism is anything but charitable.
Oh, please -- if you knew anything about capitalism you wouldn't be quoting Keynes as an authority on it.
Simply put, there's nothing whatsoever that's anti-capitalist about private charity, in fact quite the opposite. It's the coerced "charity" of the welfare state with which capitalists disagree. But if something's voluntary, capitali
Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)
Capitalism is hardly responsible for it. No private company did this, until the Ansari X Prize subsidized them. That prize money was donated, making SS1 of charitable origins. Capitalism is anything but charitable. In fact, between the charity money and the academic foundation that dreamed up the whole thing, it's closer to a centralised, socialist model.
I agree with the majority of repliers. This is bunk. The prize money was donated by private entities and run by private entities. That's capitalism, private ownership of capital. "Academic" doesn't mean "socialist". "Socialism" doesn't mean "charity".
Let me reword the Keynes quote. Socialism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men, for the nastiest of reasons, using public resources, will somehow work for the benefit of us all.
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The rebuttal to that would be that without capitalism, no one would be wealthy enough to afford to donate a $10M prize.
We shouldn't proclaim that if no individual ("a capitalist") is rich enough to donate $10M then nobody is rich enough to do that. The government is usually the richest of them all, and it plays an active role in socialism. During the space race in 1960's money was flowing freely in both countries, and it wasn't VC money - it was a blank check from the government.
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Oddly enough, I don't find the prospect of space tourism .. inspirational.
I'm happy for Scaled, and I admire their use of engineering to bring the cost of manned suborbital down, but I can't say the idea of people going into space so they can gawk and brag to their friends is all that appealing. I'm fine with it, but I'm not going to put them in the same ranks of explorers as Alan Shepard.
Mojave? (Score:2, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Since I work in Mojave, I must say I was befuddled with the codename Microsoft chose for their image rehabilitation. Mojave sucks, outside of the cool things going on at the Spaceport.
I can assure you that neither Vista nor "Mojave" had anything to do with this first flight.
-- Len
Universe? (Score:5, Funny)
That's a little presumptuous, don't you think? In the multi-billion year history of the Universe, and all the innumerable planets that have ever existed in it, you're really SURE that there hasn't ever been any affordable space tourism?
No technologically inclined species on a small planet with rather low gravity? No planets with super-volcanic mountains that peak just slightly shy of orbit? No species of living beings robust enough that they can handle the massive G-forces of being fired out of a cannon on the ground? etc.
Boy is your face going to be red when the Quixblarxians land their space ship in the parking lot of the nearest courthouse just to sue you for defamation of their space tourism industry...
Re: (Score:2)
That's a little presumptuous, don't you think? In the multi-billion year history of the Universe, and all the innumerable planets that have ever existed in it, you're really SURE that there hasn't ever been any affordable space tourism?
No technologically inclined species on a small planet with rather low gravity? No planets with super-volcanic mountains that peak just slightly shy of orbit? No species of living beings robust enough that they can handle the massive G-forces of being fired out of a cannon on the ground? etc.
Boy is your face going to be red when the Quixblarxians land their space ship in the parking lot of the nearest courthouse just to sue you for defamation of their space tourism industry...
Okay, its the first in the history of the observable universe.
Re:Universe? (Score:4, Funny)
And the cat would always observe whether the cat was dead or alive.
Parent
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Thank you, Yoda.
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I for one welcome our new masters of intergalactic litigation. That is assuming (and hoping) they practice law in a courtroom and not with a death-ray.
Hmmm, who knows what the RIAA have up their sleeves?
I just love this... (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't know why space flight is so fascinating, but this is just incredible. I'm really sad that I was born too late to experience the moon landings, so attempts like this to pick up the slack of the once dominant leader in space exploration are just exciting.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't know why space flight is so fascinating, but this is just incredible. I'm really sad that I was born too late to experience the moon landings, so attempts like this to pick up the slack of the once dominant leader in space exploration are just exciting.
Isn't it funny... I'm sad I was born too early to experience a (manned) Mars landing.
ob Canuck joke (Score:5, Funny)
For readers in the USA, the equivalent model is the PW308.
Re:ob Canuck joke (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Yay! Go Virgin! Woooh! (Score:2)
I am completely stoked by this demonstration of Virgin's commitment to a better, more technological future. Who knows, by 2010 they may also increase Virgin Media's crappy 30 megabyte mailbox.
Re: (Score:2)
I know you're not being serious, but Virgin don't own Virgin Media anyway, NTL just license the brand name.
Re: (Score:2)
What, me, Rick, a virgin? Try telling that to some of the foxy chicks who owe me favours!
Disco Stu (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Besides, I don't think it's ugly at all.
Re:Man those Burt Rutan planes sure are ugly (Score:5, Funny)
Besides, I don't think it's ugly at all.
Neither do I, but on to your main point...
Would you prefer it work well, or look good?
Both are generally possible.
Unless, of course, it's designed to reach (sub)orbit by being repulsed by the Earth.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Someone get them an award winning industrial designer please.
Well I suppose beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Personally I think they are very elegant vehicles.
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe this guy [sae.org]?
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Re:Odd to use a King Air (Score:4, Informative)
Raytheon (Beech's parent) scrapped most of the Starships. I believe one or two are still airworthy, despite Raytheon's aggressive attempts to get them all out of the sky. The last owners have amassed a large stockpile of spares.
It's a shame. The Starship was truly the Way of Things To Come in aviation. It never performed quite as well as hoped, but it paved the way for large composite structures in commercial aviation.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Slightly off-topic, but the Piaggio Avanti is not really a canard design, and it is definately not a Rutan design. Scaled did a plane in the late-80's to early 90's called the Triumph, which was basically a three-surface design like the Avanti, but with familial resemblance to the Beech Starship. It never went into production, because of Beechcraft/Raytheon selling off Scaled Composites in the middle of the design phase.
The fact that a Starship was used on the SS1 flights has more to do with the generosit
Re: (Score:2)
No. They sit side by side. The pilots really need to communicate so they are about a foot apart.
White Knight 2 is not the first twin-fuselage plane to have been built. For example, North American built a twin P-51 at the end of World War II. You couldn't put the co-pilots of a twin P-51 in the same fuselage, as there simply was no room. That is not the case with this plane.
-- Len