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Memory Molecule Identified
Posted by
kdawson
on Sun Nov 02, 2008 03:07 AM
from the face-is-familiar dept.
from the face-is-familiar dept.
Reader Ostracus informs us of research led by Michael Ehlers of Duke University that has identified a molecule, myosin Vb (five-b), that seems to be a critical component in the formation of memory. "A major puzzle for neurobiologists is how the brain can modify one... synapse at a time in a brain cell and not affect the thousands of other connections nearby. Plasticity, the ability of the brain to precisely rearrange the connections between its nerve cells, is the framework for learning and forming memories ... The discovery of a molecule that moves new receptors to the synapse so that the neuron... can respond more strongly helps to explain several observations about [brain] plasticity ... [The researchers] found that the myosin Vb molecule in hippocampal neurons responded to a flow of calcium ions from the synaptic space by popping up and into action. One end of the myosin is attached to meshlike actin filaments so it can 'walk' to the end of the nerve cells where receptors are. On its other end, it tows an endosome, a packet that contains new receptors. 'These endosomes are like little memories waiting to happen,' Ehlers said."
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Problems with the headline (Score:5, Informative)
I'm not sure they can call this a "memory molecule" so much as a "molecule responsible for changing the receptors at the synapse to make a memory." The molecule itself is not what memories are actually made of, which is what I would think of. The changed activity of the neuron is more akin to that. And it's also not specific to memories. The process of myosin Vb bringing endosomes to the surface is not unique to neurons, that's been known for a while (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11408590).
That said, it's really interesting that they've identified this, as it not only tells you how the change is made, but also tells you the stimulus to change it.
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I'm not sure they can call this a "memory molecule" so much as a "molecule responsible for changing the receptors at the synapse to make a memory."
I'll never ask you to write a headline.
--
"In describing genetic mechanisms, there is a choice between being inexact and incomprehensible" http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/medicine/laureates/1965/press.html [nobelprize.org]
Re:Problems with the headline (Score:5, Insightful)
Myosin V is a major motor which hauls all kinds of stuff. Calling it a memory molecule is like calling a Volvo truck the food truck. Yes, it might be used to deliver food sometimes but it is much more than that.
Parent
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It's kind of like calling BMW the "nazi motor company." Yes, they did make planes for their country (germany... I hope no one was wondering that)during WWI and WWII (if I can trust wikipedia), but they make cars now.
Hey, lookit that, I goodwin'd, used a car analogy, AND made a bad metaphor ALL AT THE SAME TIME. Just for good measure, here's a youtube video, I PROMISE it's not rick astley
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnOt4aN2uyc [youtube.com]
FIRST POST
1. Do something
2. do something else
3. ???
4. Profit!
Linux.
Sorry, but
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Uh... I'm honestly not sure if you were serious or making a very subtle joke. I think muscle memory is actually a product not of muscle itself but the neurons controlling it. In which case, yes, this could be controlling the conditioned pathways that cause "muscle memory." I'm pretty sure this is not the same myosin that makes up your muscles, so it's not directly the sarcomeres that could be doing anything like this. In any event, the myosin in your muscles are arranged in a different configuration tha
Sound rough (Score:2)
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And my take is that I'm going to start mixing energy shakes with myosin Vb (from ground up uncooked cattle brains). Photographic memory here I come! Yeehaw!
Re:Sound rough (Score:5, Funny)
I'm taking actin and will soon kick your ass. I will crush you with my contractile system and force feed you ATP with my sliding filaments as I hurl you in toward my M line.
Parent
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Wikipedia is your friend :)
It appears actin is part of filaments which are a rather important part of the contractile system, which is the system that gets your muscle cells to contract (which makes you muscles move). I have not a clue what an M line is. ATP is an important chemical that your cells internally use for energy. Why one would force feed someone ATP is beyond me (AFAIK it does not do anything special when ingested).
It appears MillionthMonkey is boosting his strength while Anonymous Coward is boo
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The most worrying thing is that enough people got the joke to mod him 5, Funny.
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Or is that too silly to consider?
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Perhaps it is a piece of research that will not result in a product that somebody can sell at a huge profit, but will only increase our understanding of the world a little.
Or is that too silly to consider?
You don't think a drug to improve ability to remember stuff you experience while you're taking it would sell?
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Re:Sound rough (Score:5, Interesting)
I see here a possible method of improving AI. If we can indeed model synthetic neurons to perform in a similar way, we might have the key to designing more efficient captcha breaking systems.
Parent
Re:Sound rough (Score:4, Interesting)
Google on "artificial neural network" and read a few of the 600,000 hits that you will find. ANN theory is as old as digital computers. Commercial ANN applications have been growing in number and sophistication for over 10 years, e.g,, Dragon NaturallySpeaking and other speech recognition software, Caere OmniPage and other OCR packages.
What TFA is about is reporting the discovery of a key part of the mechanism that changes the weighting factors in a neuron in a biological neural net. Of itself, I doubt that this will trigger any insights on how to improve ANNs: the frankenmeisters already know how to do that with the neurones they work with. But this does open the door for further research by biologists into wetware neural net mechanisms, and that could lead to some interesting things.
Parent
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My point was that if we didn't know how human memory works, how can we replicate it?
It's like Leonardo da Vinci when he tied to build a bird-like device in order to fly. It took, many centuries later, some insight into aerodynamics, to figure out that flying humans would not dress in bird suits in order to fly.
Now if ANN have been around for only 10 years, we might still have a few more decades (if not centuries) to go before we better understand human memory and build something useful. I don't want to mini
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I don't want to minimize the developments of tools such as Dragon Naturally Speaking but I can't really have an argument with the application or ask it why it exists.
So you are holding out for AI that is self-aware, can use rational processes, and can communicate in a human language about metaphysical conjectures? Expecting to find a key to that kind sentience by studying the inner workings of neurons is similar to mastering compiler design by studying the details of semiconductor theory. Wrong scope; wrong field; won't work.
In the meantime, OCR and speech recognition are narrow fields where AI is working very well, thank you. I am an agnostic about whether there is a
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Perhaps it is a piece of research that will not result in a product that somebody can sell at a huge profit, but will only increase our understanding of the world a little.
Why is it that some people think those are two mutually incompatible things? There's no reason we can't have a better understanding of the world, and enrich the people who made that understanding possible at the same time.
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I don't know if you recall the exciting race to the finish for the Human Genome project. I'm not a geneticist, so I'll over-simplify: basically there was a team at UC Santa Cruz working on completing the map, and a priva
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Perhaps it is a piece of research that will not result in a product that somebody can sell at a huge profit, but will only increase our understanding of the world a little.
Or is that too silly to consider?
(making a copy so it's harder to take down )
Deja Vu (Score:5, Funny)
That's what everyone said last time we discovered this, back in 1925, 1903, and 1871. Somehow, after discovering these molecules, everyone forgets to follow up.
Parent
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Somehow, after discovering these molecules, everyone forgets to follow up.
Come to think of it, yeah, I do remember something about making a virus that will temporarily get rid of myosin Vb to test in rats. But maybe that was just a dream. Hmm... well that sounds like a good logical next experiment to try. What could possibly go wrong?
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The further this research goes... (Score:4, Funny)
The closer we are to immortal memory. That would be both good and bad. We would forever despair of our failures. We would always remember where we left our keys.
Since all the other parts of a Man are capable of being restored through regressing any cell into a T-cell and then culturing it into the desired part, if this gets us to where we can keep the mind functional as well, then we've found Ponce deLeon's fountain of youth.
That would be great, because there are only 6 billion of us, and that number was not growing nearly fast enough.
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Improved memory might actually slow that down. If certain memories weren't overriden by hormones etc, then memories of three A.M. feedings, diaper changes, child support etc might dissuade us from sex without birth control methods. Then there is the possibility of your partner never forgeting your "mistakes",,,,
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One of the most tragic parts of being human is that we forget the details of the romances of our youth.
Re:The further this research goes... (Score:4, Funny)
No. By far, the most tragic happening of a human is that we die.
20, 50, 100 years of happenings, memories.. All erased, with none ever being recoverable.
That is a horrible thing that needs to be stopped at all costs, unless the person willfully chooses to do so. That being said, I am a Singultarian.
Parent
Re:The further this research goes... (Score:4, Insightful)
> 20, 50, 100 years of happenings, memories.. All erased, with none ever being recoverable.
Let's be honest, there are a lot of memories that are not important to anyone but the one who remembers them. When I die nobody will know which pair of socks I liked best, but the loss of this knowledge is hardly a loss for the human race. Even if I were write down the things about my life that I consider to be the most important in an autobiography, how many people would read it? Humanity is not interested in the thoughts and memories of random people.
Write down the few happenings and memories that were relevant for (a large part of) the human race. The rest can be forgotten.
> That is a horrible thing that needs to be stopped at all costs, unless the person willfully chooses to do so.
I don't like people who are willing to accomplish some goal 'at all costs'.
Parent
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i'm guessing you're not over 50 years old.
even ordinary people can have extraordinary memories and experiences to share with others. just think about all the old people who lived through World War II, the civil rights movement, the birth of the modern computer, etc. there are a lot of things that we take for granted in our lives that future generations might be interested in but have no way of finding out about. imagine if we had access to the memories of just one person who lived during the height of the R
It's not tragic at all? (Score:5, Insightful)
Death is a part of the natural renewal of things. It is a short life span and the continual and restarting of youth that allows humanity to not only change its education but its social attitudes.
Mourn the ones we lose, for sure, but ultimately, death is necessary. Without death, young people could never remake the world with each generation, and we'd be stuck forever with the weirdness of the old. Sometimes we old people, instead of clinging to life, just need accept that we're going to die.
Parent
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As we get older, couldn't we just adopt a social system that makes us older instead of, you know, dying? Killing off the elderly is a pretty ham-handed solution.
Unless you're just trying to rationalize the inevitable, in which case your sentiment is total garbage.
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If that's your concern, couldn't we just adopt a social system where we get less relevant as we age? Killing off the elderly is a pretty fucking ham-handed solution.
Unless you're just trying to rationalize the inevitable, in which case your sentiment is total garbage.
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Don't you think that one of the reasons for "weirdness" of old folks is not old age per se, but rather bitterness and frustration that comes with realisation that their end is becoming quite an immediate issue?
Together with lots of young folks around enjoying their life this might lead to fixating oneself on memories of youth, perhaps also convincing oneself that the life was better when she/he were young (so it's easier to disregard "youth festival" around). For that it's only natural to clinge to outdated
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Forever despairing of failures?! (Score:2)
What is it with people, thinking that failures have to haunt us forever? Failures are how people learn. There are such a things as closure, adaptation, pattern recognition, sublimation, and basic personal growth. You start failing before you're born, when you can't move your arms how you'd like to, can't interpret the images you're seeing, etc. Life is about facing these challenges, overcoming them, and enjoyin
Random musings about calcium (Score:5, Funny)
myosin Vb molecule in hippocampal neurons responded to a flow of calcium ions
"So remember to drink your milk, boys and girls, or you will forget how to."
Applications and deeper questions (Score:3, Interesting)
On a more serious note...
"We all know"---I really ought to find an article that backs me up on this, but I've heard it enough times from random sources so it must be true---we all know that breast milk is very good for babies.
I'm wondering whether there's a large amount of calcium in breast milk, and whether that influences the babies' ability to form memories. The summary doesn't say whether the calcium acts as a "mere" catalyst or is used up in the process; but in any case, I'd guess that more is good.
[I
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The calcium (Ca2+) signal is just due to a very temporary Ca2+ influx into the cell. The Ca2+ stems from the extracellular fluid and from intracellular Ca2+ stores. After excitation, Ca2+ gets immediately pumped out of the cytosol. None gets used up. (This is only half the truth: Some Ca2+ signals are lasting for minutes to hours.)
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> Google can probably give me answers, but I can't remember how to use it. I haven't had my milk today :)
Adults drinking milk is a neat trick that has only been with us for about 10000 years. Milk is not required in the diet of adults (people from some parts of the world can't even digest it properly). Unless you have a diet-related disorder, such as diabetes, you don't usually have to worry about your food if you have at least some variety* in your diet. If you eat enough different stuff, your body will
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That's no problem, just use different dips - tomato sauce, mayonnaise, etc.
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Forget milk; drink Vb [fosters.com.au] and alter your synapses directly.
Err...yeah (Score:2)
Anyway, the point is that it is highly unlikely that this ONE molecule can be implicated in that many disorders. It sounds to me like this guy may have found something very important in regulating one neurotransmitter, but fails to say which one. All of the disorders he mentions do deal with so
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The bottom line is that too many news stories lead the public to believe that we are way further ahead than we a
The human brain is full of VB? (Score:5, Funny)
At least now we know why it's so unstable
Pretty little memories (Score:2)