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LHC Offline Until April 2009 (Or Longer)
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:20 AM
from the now-we'll-never-know-the-secret dept.
from the now-we'll-never-know-the-secret dept.
rufey writes "The recent problems at the Large Hadron Collider will now keep it idle until spring 2009. The official press release is here. The LHC went offline due to a suspected failure in a superconducting connection, which overheated and caused around 100 of the LHC's super-cooled magnets to heat up by as much as 100 degrees. This resulted in the accidental release of a ton of liquid helium. The process required to repair the failed superconducting connection involves weeks of warming up the affected area from -456 degrees Fahrenheit to room temperature, and then several more weeks to cool it back down after the repair is made. The total amount of time to do this will spill over into CERN's scheduled winter maintenance/shutdown period, which is partly done to save money on electricity during the period of peak demand."
Related Stories
[+]
LHC Shut Down By Transformer Malfunction 293 comments
Ortega-Starfire writes "A 30-ton transformer in the Large Hadron Collider malfunctioned, requiring complete replacement on the day the LHC came online. No one at CERN reported any problems, and they only released this data once the Associated Press sent people to investigate rumors of problems. I guess it's hard to just sweep a 30-ton transformer breaking under the rug."
[+]
Second Snag This Week Could Delay LHC for Weeks 160 comments
sciencehabit writes "After a transformer failure earlier this week, the Large Hadron Collider has hit another snag — and this one is much more serious. As Science reports, 'At least one of the LHC's more than 1700 superconducting magnets failed, springing a leak and spewing helium gas into the subterranean tunnel that houses the collider ... How long [repairs take] will depend in part on how much of the LHC must be warmed to room temperature for servicing. If it's only a short section, the repair could be relatively quick. But the machine is built in octants, and if workers have to heat and cool an entire octant, then the cooling alone would take several weeks."
Reader Simmeh contributes coverage from the BBC. We recently discussed the transformer malfunction at the LHC, which was a smaller problem and has already been fixed. Update - 9/20 at 12:52 by SS: CNN reports that the LHC will be out of commission for two months.
[+]
Another Way the LHC Could Self-Destruct 367 comments
KentuckyFC writes "Just when you thought it was safe to switch on the LHC (though it won't be for a while yet), another nightmare scenario has emerged that some critics worry could cause the particle accelerator to explode. The culprit this time is not an Earth-swallowing black hole but a 'Bose supernova' in the accelerator's superfluid helium bath. Physicists have been playing with Bose Einstein Condensate (BECs) for over 10 years now. But in 2001, one group discovered that placing them in a powerful magnetic field could cause the attractive forces between atoms to become repulsive. That caused their BEC to explode in a Bose supernova — which they called a 'Bosenova,' a name that fortunately did not catch on. This was little more than a curiosity when only a microscopic blob of cold matter was involved. But superfluid liquid helium is also BEC. And physicists have suddenly remembered that the LHC is swimming in 700,000 liters of the stuff while being zapped by some of the most powerful magnetic fields on the planet. So is the LHC a Bose supernova waiting to go off? Not according to the CERN theory division, which has published its calculations that show the LHC is safe (abstract). They also point out that no other superfluid helium handling facility has mysteriously blown itself to pieces."
[+]
CERN Launches Huge LHC Computing Grid 46 comments
RaaVi writes "Yesterday CERN launched the largest computing grid in the world, which is destined to analyze the data coming from the world's biggest particle accelerator, the Large Hadron Collider. The computing grid consists of more than 140 computer centers from around the world working together to handle the expected 10-15 petabytes of data the LHC will generate each year."
The Worldwide LHC Computing Grid will initially handle data for up to 7,000 scientists around the world. Though the LHC itself is down for some lengthy repairs, an event called GridFest was held yesterday to commemorate the occasion. The LCG will run alongside the LHC@Home volunteer project.
[+]
Fermilab Detects "Doubly Strange" Particle 36 comments
DynaSoar writes "While its cousin/competitor site, the Large Hadron Collider at CERN, remains offline, Fermilab's Digital Hadron Calorimeter continues to produce significant results. Recently Fermilab announced discovery of the Omega-sub-b baryon, a 'doubly-strange' particle. This baryon, containing two strange quarks and one bottom quark, has six times the mass of a proton. 'The Omega-sub-b is the latest entry in the "periodic table of baryons." Baryons are particles formed of three quarks, the most common examples being the proton and neutron. ... The observation of this "doubly strange" particle, predicted by the Standard Model, is significant because it strengthens physicists' confidence in their understanding of how quarks form matter. In addition, it conflicts with a 2008 result announced by CDF's sister experiment, DZero. In August 2008, the DZero experiment announced its own observation of the Omega-sub-b based on a smaller sample of Tevatron data. This result contradicted some predictions of the Standard Model, suggesting a "new physics." The new result leads to the possibility that the prior results are not accurate.'"
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I can wait (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I can wait (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:I can wait (Score:4, Informative)
Yeah I was wondering. Does it open the gates to the Dungeon Dimensions to let the creatures that live there in?
Let's just say you'd better have your Young Men's Reformed-Cultists-of-the-Ichor-God Bel-Shamharoth Association dues paid up.
Parent
Re:I can wait (Score:5, Funny)
Don't worry, there will be another delay, then another, then another, until it goes live in 2012.
Parent
They will trun it back the day after the CUBS win (Score:3, Funny)
They will trun it back the day after the CUBS win it all.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
They will trun it back the day after the CUBS win it all.
Against Miami?
Yeah. Who would've thought? 100 to 1 shot! I wish I could go back to the beginning of the season, put some money on the Cubs.
Re:They will trun it back the day after the CUBS w (Score:5, Funny)
Actually, the world ended when the Red Sox won it all, it's just that nobody noticed.
Parent
Re:They will trun it back the day after the CUBS w (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:They will trun it back the day after the CUBS w (Score:5, Informative)
For those of you who do not know, that is a Mark Twain quote (presumed to be, anyhow)
"When the end of the world comes, I want to be in Cincinnati because it's always twenty years behind the times."
Parent
Re:They will trun it back the day after the CUBS w (Score:5, Funny)
I am dissappointed. We are on slashdot. Please say instead
"The results will be evalutaed using GNU/Hurd"
or "The operators could finish a round of DNF in the breaks" or "a microsoft linux running on phantom game consoles is used as a thin client operating system" etc...
NO Sports, please!
Parent
Re:I can wait (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:I can wait (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:I can wait (Score:4, Funny)
You must not be an American. I was hoping for total annihilation rather than having to live through the election.
As a consolation prize, at least we get to watch the Palin / Biden debate. That's going to be a fun program of sure brain surgery, for sure.
Parent
Re:I can wait (Score:5, Funny)
MODERATOR: "Senator Biden, what qualifies you to be Vice President?"
BIDEN: [answer redacted due to copyrights held by the estate of Neil Kinnock and the risk of carpal tunnel syndrome]
MODERATOR: "Yes, yes. And you, Governor Pain, what qualifies you?"
PALIN: "Nothing."[long pause] "But I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night!"
Exeunt, pursued by a bear. With hair plugs and wearing lipstick.
Which reminds me, I need to make sure that my wet bar is fully stocked.
Parent
Re:I can wait (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Hmmmmmm (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Hmmmmmm (Score:5, Funny)
It looks like you're trying to repair a superconductor coolant loop. Would you like to:
(a) vent all helium
(b) order another 30 ton transformer
(c) damn the torpedoes, lets make some black holes.
Parent
Damn (Score:4, Funny)
Now I'll have to wait even longer to welcome our new demonic overlords who were supposed to come out of the stargate that the LHC will create.
Re:Damn (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:Damn (Score:5, Funny)
Now I'll have to wait even longer to welcome our new demonic overlords who were supposed to come out of the stargate that the LHC will create.
Well, it looks like the best estimates will have the LHC running full collisions will be sometime in December, 2012.
Hey wait a minute!
Parent
Re:Not Really (Score:4, Funny)
Naw, its too late.
Turns out McCain is Kang and Obama is Kodos.
You know its useless to vote for a third candidate.
Parent
-456 degrees? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:-456 degrees? (Score:5, Informative)
I thought the absolute zero was at -273...ah, damn americans!
I thought absolute zero was at 0...
ah, damn humans.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:-456 degrees? (Score:4, Funny)
Okay folks lets get it straight. The US isn't the only one that still doesn't use the metric system for everything.
http://www.toyota.co.uk/cgi-bin/toyota/bv/generic_editorial.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0174202331.1222276069@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccdadeffffejeicfngcfkmdfkidfgh.0&deepLink=YA3_Specification_new&nodiv=TRUE&fullwidth=TRUE&edname=specSheet_YA3&carModel=Yaris&imgName=bv/CarChapter/YA3/Imagery/YA3_spec.jpg&zone=Zone%20YARIS [toyota.co.uk]
Here is a link to a Japanese car company selling a car in the UK.
They give the fuel economy in MPG as well as KM per liter.
Drives me crazy when I get UK motor cycle mag. The give the fuel economy in MPG and the fuel tank size in Liters!
Parent
Re:-456 degrees? (Score:5, Insightful)
Drives me crazy when I get UK motor cycle mag. The give the fuel economy in MPG and the fuel tank size in Liters!
Not only that, but British Gallons and U.S. gallons are different [wikipedia.org]!
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Yep that is why the same car with the same engine gets better mileage in the EU than the US. Often they really don't.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
A ton is exactly 2240 lbs. Otherwise it wouldn't be a round number of hundredweights (or stones) and that would just be silly.
Unless it's a metric ton, which is spelt "tonne", and is exactly 2204 and a bit lbs. Simple, no?
Being scientists, the quantity in this instance was probably more or less a shedload.
Re:-456 degrees? (Score:4, Funny)
1 tonne = 1000kg.
Makes no sense, and that pisses me off. I much prefer my units being eighths of a unit made up of one twelfth of a unit made up of a third of a unit made up of 1/1760th of the largest practical unit.
Parent
Now what do I do? (Score:5, Funny)
This is unacceptable. I demand they destroy the world now.
Re:Now what do I do? (Score:5, Funny)
...spent all my money...secure in the knowledge that the world would come to an end this October
Yeah, you and all the banks!
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
This reminds me of a friend of mine, who on his deathbed told me:
All my life, I spent 90% of my money on hookers and alcohol.. and I wasted the other 10%.
Ouch (Score:5, Funny)
I understand things were going well - then there was this 'big bang'....
Save energy ? what the hell ? (Score:3, Funny)
if there is anything that world shouldnt be saving energy, if there is anything that needs to be subsidized by governments, this is it.
because, this is IT. if the god particle is found, the smallest block of EXISTENCE will be found.
im appalled how EU is not being of sufficient assistance in this. unbelievable.
Re:Save energy ? what the hell ? (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Back-of-the-envelope costs (Score:4, Informative)
Read the article (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Ton of Helium (Score:3, Funny)
[I'm being facetious about the weights, but in terms of cost, losing a ton of helium is freakin' expensive]
We know. You can tell from the LHC cyro status. (Score:5, Informative)
Look at the LHC cyro status for sector 3-4 [web.cern.ch]. Average magnet temperature is now at 70K, and slowly creeping up to room temperature. Notice the expanded vertical scale on the graph. Compare with the other sectors, holding with liquid helium at 1.9K.
Warmup is slow. Cooldown is slower. Several kilometers of pipe and a hundred or so magnets are involved.
It's not that bad, though. It looks like they won't have to take magnets out of the tunnel for rewinding. That's a huge job. This is just a slow one.
They can warm up or chill down sector 3-4 during the shutdown period. The rest of the system would normally be cooled during shutdown anyway.
-450who? (Score:5, Insightful)
Please. If it's science, give us our 'degrees C'.
LHC Joke of the Day (Score:5, Funny)
A: What's the matter?
Re:Not the end of the world (Score:5, Funny)
A year from now everyone will be complaining about the huge price tag on this thing that has never been 100% operational.
It's the Windows Vista of supercolliders.
Parent
Re:Not the end of the world (Score:5, Funny)
You're being unfair, but they have a plan.
They're going to rename it the Large Mojave Collider and prove that its just bad press that is making them look bad.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Say something meaningful--the magnets were about 2 degrees Kelvin.
you mean 2 Kelvin (since it is an absolute scale)
Re:A ton? (Score:5, Informative)
The LHC cooling circuit has something like 400 tons of helium in it.
One ton missing sounds reasonable.
The cold doesnt matter, btw. Liquid helium has a really low heat capacity and evaporation enthalpy. A dewar full of liquid nitrogen spilled will do much more damage than 10 times the amount of helium, even if the helium temperature is lower.
And helium is not THAT expensive. At least compared to the other costs.
A physicists analogy is that a LN2 costs as much as cheap beer, while L He as much as good whiskey, per volume... (I once used 2000l of liquid helium in a single week because of a faulty magnet that couldnt be replaced during beamtime. Although that was of course recaptured. I hope they have options to do that in the LHC cave, too, even though the initial containment was breached)
Parent
Party time (Score:4, Informative)
I believe with all the problems they're having, the actual date when the high-energy collisions begin will be December 2012 [wikipedia.org].
That actually is appropriate, though probably not in the sense that P means. The Mesoamerican calandar that 'ends' in 2012 is just the end of a chunk of a calendar, to be followed by another chunk, and another, etc. It is like New Year's Eve for us; the end of a cycle and an excuse to party. 2012 is just an excuse to party, Mayan style, ripping the hearts out of human sacrifices or however they celebrate it.
When the first collisions happen, that will be grounds for partying also.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
There's a guy running back and forth down the tunnel with a bucket of warm water...
Re:Your telling me maintenance people cannot work (Score:5, Interesting)
But seriously, what about space suits? They allow people to survive in absolute 0. Why can't they be used?
Parent
Re:Your telling me maintenance people cannot work (Score:5, Informative)
Spacesuits operate in vacuum, which means there are almost no no particles around, so the word temperature does not make much sense there. Vacuum is an excellent insulator, so it is easy to keep them warm. It is a myth that you instantly freeze when exposed to the vacuum of space.
Parent
Re:Several weeks to warm up and cool down? (Score:4, Insightful)
You're not familiar with large scale industrial operations. Even a large boiler must be disabled for a week or so before reaching room temperature. You're not going to be able to bring that much material to such a low temperature quickly.
Parent