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China To Snap 4 Space Ships Into a Station
Posted by
timothy
on Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:19 AM
from the legoland-space-edition dept.
from the legoland-space-edition dept.
hackingbear writes "According to a report by Hong Kong newspaper Mingpao Daily (poor Google translation), quoting the Director of Jiuquan Launch Center, China is set to build a space station by snapping together four spaceships (Shenzhou 7, 8, 9, and 10), to be launched sequentially. Though other reports indicates that taikonauts abroad SZ 7 will return to Earth on September 28, the official said the ship will remain in the orbit to be docked with unmanned Shenzhou 8 and 9. Finally, the manned spaceship Shenzhou 10 will be launched and dock with the other three, completing the space station." A story at Space.com also briefly mentions Shenzhous 8 and 9 (with no mention of number 10), and adds that
China has selected its first spacewalker.
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Hmm (Score:5, Funny)
I dunno... I used to build those "snap together" model kits. They really might want to consider going with cement.
Re:Hmm (Score:5, Funny)
But if they use cement, they can't separate until they're needed to reform Voltron again.
Parent
Voltron! (Score:5, Funny)
I'm sorry, I couldn't help it. I tagged this with "voltron"
-G
Re:Voltron! (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Voltron! (Score:5, Informative)
Heck, I got tagged "Informative" for pointing out that we aren't speaking Russian.
Parent
Re:Voltron! (Score:5, Insightful)
And also for subsequently pointing out that you pointed out that we aren't speaking Russian. I bet this comment, however, gets modded as flamebait. :P
-G
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Taikonaut, cosmonaut and astronaut (Score:5, Insightful)
A Chinese astronaut is... an astronaut. A Russian astronaut is... an astronaut. You'll notice that during the Olympics, Chinese athletes were still called "athlete."
Why arbitrarily translate some words into the foreign language?
Re:Taikonaut, cosmonaut and astronaut (Score:5, Insightful)
You mean: A Chinese cosmonaut is... a cosmonaut. An American cosmonaut is... a cosmonaut. After all, Russians used the name cosmonaut first, the Americans user astronaut to be different. Cosmonaut makes more sense anyway, at least until we have a manned flight to the stars
Parent
Re:Taikonaut, cosmonaut and astronaut (Score:4, Insightful)
The Russians never went beyond navigating in the cosmos itself, the Americans actually reached a heavenly body. This wasn't the original intention, but the terms "cosmonaut" and "astronaut" actually describe more or less the most advanced accomplishments of each country.
Parent
Re:Taikonaut, cosmonaut and astronaut (Score:5, Funny)
We're squabbling about which Greek-derived term to use, based on the language we're currently using?
It's true what they say about arguing on the internet, apparently.
Parent
Re:Taikonaut, cosmonaut and astronaut (Score:5, Funny)
No it isn't.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Cosmonauts = evil russkies.
Now that China is the other bogeyman country, we have to give their astronauts a different name to distinguish them. Hence taikonaut.
Try to keep up with the propaganda will you?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Since the rest of the summary was written in English, I doubt very much that anyone would be confused.
Yeah, I do find it kind of annoying. (Score:5, Insightful)
A 'taikonaut' is actually what "English people" (mostly media, I imagine) call a Chinese taikong ren. I would assume translators and english-speaking media do so because languages based on a different alphabet systems are difficult to pronounce and spell phonetically... And while astronaut would be just fine with me, I guess there is some need to supplement 'naut' (which seems to imply 'explorer') with a version of their native word for space.
Personally, I'd like to see the word 'astronaut' used instead of flavor_of_the_month_onaut, because that's what they are in English.. an astronaut. Shame on the translator for making arbitrary, cultural concessions.
Parent
Re:Yeah, I do find it kind of annoying. (Score:5, Insightful)
I think the real issue is that space travel is still intimately tied to nationalism. You would never come up with different words for "pilot", because pilot is just a job. But "astronaut" is a job which is deeply tied into the massive penis-comparison space game between nations.
Parent
Re:Taikonaut, cosmonaut and astronaut (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Taikonaut, cosmonaut and astronaut (Score:5, Funny)
You're probably running an old version of Firefox.
You can check your version from the Help menu: "Aboot Mozilla Firefox" ;-)
Parent
Re:Taikonaut, cosmonaut and astronaut (Score:5, Funny)
No, actually, you just need to change the local for the spell checker by typing aboot:config in your address bar.
Parent
No, No, No! (Score:5, Insightful)
Its the orbit module that will remain in space (Score:5, Informative)
One feature of the Shenzhou capsule is that the orbit module (which detaches from the reentry module before reentry) can stay in function as a separate spacecraft.
Thus part of Shenzhou 7 will stay in space to form part of the station, and part of it will return the men home.
independent Orbital/Hab module (Score:5, Interesting)
They must be talking about leaving the Hab/Orbital module on orbit for SZ7. Since ShenZhou is a modernized Soyuz, it's fairly simple. The pressurized top module has independent RCS thrusters and is designed to act as a satellite after detaching from the descent module. The previous SZ flights have included experiments and observation packages that continued long after crew return - this is a logical extension of that concept. The article refers to SZ7 as a "target vehicle" - guarantee that is referring only to the orbital module.
IIRC, the Chinese were shopping around a "long node" station design a decade ago - this is the operational version of those viewgraphs.
Unless they plan to dock the orbital modules in sequence, one of the vehicles must include a Node - my guess is SZ8 but it could be 9, these are both uncrewed so that helps with the mass of additional docking adapters.
j
Re:independent Orbital/Hab module (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:independent Orbital/Hab module (Score:5, Insightful)
The Chinese are not as stupid as you seem to think. Of course they're not going to start from scratch when there is so much historical data, designs, and expertise available for sale right next door. It seems like the Chinese space technology took the best-of-breed (ie. mostly Russian) technology and modernized it using Chinese "indigenous spaceflight capability". I'm not sure why you jumped on this as somehow anti-Chinese, but it strikes me as by far the most intelligent thing to do. (After all, the US is licensing Russian technology to hold us over after the Shuttle retires, and we're not stupid either...)
Parent
Re:independent Orbital/Hab module (Score:5, Informative)
you so obviously have not followed the development of China's manned spaceflight program and the Shen Zhou spacecraft.
"After China and Russia signed a space cooperation agreement in 1996, the two countries carried out very fruitful cooperation in docking system installations, model spaceships, flight control, and means of life support and other areas of manned space flight. Russia's experience in space technology development was and is of momentous significance as enlightenment to China."
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=12687
As direct visual evidence, the Shen Zhou mold line is identical to Soyuz, uses APAS-89 and the spacesuits the crew wear are thread-for-thread copies of Russian "Sokol" suits. Even the toilet is in the same location. Shen Zhou uses modern, native systems and has advanced abilities (like leaving the OM on-orbit) but is definitely based on Soyuz.
The implication is not that China lacks indigenous spaceflight but that they are smart enough to partner with organizations that bring technology to them.
Parent
Re:independent Orbital/Hab module (Score:5, Informative)
You may be jesting, I'm unsure, but the GP appears to be correct.
The Shenzhou spacecraft appears similar to the Russian Soyuz, but is different in dimensions (slightly larger and heavier) and does not seem to use any detailed parts copied from the Soyuz or built under license. Therefore although it follows the classic layout of the Soyuz, adopts many of the same technical solutions, and the re-entry vehicle has the same shape, it cannot be considered strictly a 'copy'.
www.astronautix.com [astronautix.com]
Parent
Re:independent Orbital/Hab module (Score:4, Funny)
Hey, American component, Russian component, it doesn't really matter as they are all made in China.
Parent
Taikonauts? (Score:4, Funny)
Look. "Astronaut" is Greek. "Cosmonaut" also Greek. "Taikonaut" is dumb.
But it's not the fault of the Chinese. They call their space travelers "Yuhangyuan".
Re:Taikonauts? (Score:5, Funny)
They call their space travelers "Yuhangyuan".
Yooha... yoohangee... uh... Taikonaut it is then!
Parent
Now taking bets ... (Score:4, Interesting)
First country to establish a permanent lunar base?
First country to establish a permanent martian colony?
I know where my money is riding.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
So, let me get this straight: the Chinese do something that both Russia and the US have done something like 30-40 years ago, and they're suddenly leaders in the space race? Seriously, talk about extrapolating way too much from a single event.
The US has a relatively concrete, well-funded plan to do the lunar base. Complain as you might about Bush, gutting NASA was not one of his many sins.
Re:Now taking bets ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Now taking bets ... (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
Re:Oh no, you are using PPP values! (Score:4, Informative)
Yes you would! :)
PPP stands for Purchasing Power Parity. PPP relies on a theory that identical goods should have the same price. In PPP what you are looking is the exchange rates of different countries purchasing power. These exchange rates are calculated by in example building baskets of different goods, items, etc.. and calculating price differences between countries. In example if you have 500k dollars, in China you get a mansion, in USA you get a McMansion and in Europe you get a villa: you have differences on what your money can buy. Now these differences, exchange rates, are used to adjust GDP, meaning that the GDP of China goes up relatively much, the GDP of US gets up too and the GDP of Europe goes down. The weak point of PPP is that there just aren't identical goods in the real world: you have different regulations on different things in every country, different workers legislations, etc.. In principle PPP is a sound thing, but in practice it just is horrible approximation.
Now, GDP nominal, is more or less the real money, the real value, that the economy is producing. GDP PPP tells more about the living standards of normal people, the GDP nominal tells the raw power of the economy as it is based on the actual value of production. When measuring the power of different countries, GDP nominal is the way to go.
Parent
Short translation. (Score:5, Funny)
following the launch of manned spacecraft "God 7", "God 8" and "God 9" will be unmanned spacecraft, "God 10".
Snapping four gods together to form one orbital god?
Or is this just a bad google translation?
Finally! (Score:5, Insightful)
Instead of wasting all that thrust getting big liquid/airtight tanks into space only to let them fall back down, somebody will use them to expand our spaceborne volume.
Spacestations would be much cheaper if every rocket became an addon, even if they were only useable as liquid storage. Larger air capacity=less crisis when the scrubbers/recyclers fail.
Hell, grew some veggies in them, cut down on the vitamins we have to ship up.
Proper translation (Score:5, Informative)
I know this is Slashdot, but here T properly translated FA. Contents inside [] are mine.
Bad article (it's tautology -- blame the writer) and bad translation (blame me).
Space Lab Planned after Shenzhou-X Launch
Mr. Cui Ji-Jun, director of Jiuquan Space Launch Center, today told the media that the Shenzhou-VIII and -IX spaceships, which are scheduled after this year's manned Shenzhou-VII unit, will both be unmanned. The tenth of the series will again send astronauts into space and snap with an orbiting target. After that, work will be done to construct a space-based laboratory.
According to the Qilu Evening [a Shandon-based newspaper], Mr. Cui said the featured task of Shenzhou-VII will be a spacewalk. Three astronauts will be aboard: one will take the walk out of the ship, another one will assist him in the orbiting unit (of Shenzhou-VII), and the third in the return unit. Cui also explained the reason behind the decision of launching the spaceship at night. [However the news fails to tell what it is:(]
Shenzhou-VIII and -IX, Unmanned
Cui said after Shenzhou-VII gets launched, a Target unit will be sent to space, and later the VIII to X units. Shenzhou-VIII, unmanned, will go after the Target unit and join with it. The IX unit will do the same. Shenzhou-X, piloted by astronauts, will also join with the Target. After this is done, the first task will be the making of a space lab.
Long term planning (Score:5, Insightful)
It's simply the most logical thing to do. Launching stuff into space is so incredibly expensive that scrapping the stuff or even bringing it back to earth makes absolutely no sense financially. I've never understood why there has not been some prior planning to do this with just about any spacecraft. We'd have had a space city by now and if something broke, it could be ditched after all. Even stuff that's completely useless at the moment could still come in handy later on.
In space useless crap is worth billions, you just have to keep it around long enough to find a use for it. There's more than enough space up there to do that;-)
WTF is wrong with you Americans anyway? (Score:5, Informative)
The linked article simply discusses China's gradual but steadily improving manned space programme. It says nothing about what the Chinese call their Astronauts, Tibet, Iraq, or about NASA or the shuttle. Why on earth do you people have to diss any nation that does anything positive be it Chinese, Indian, Russian or European?
To me, it comes across as pure envy that someone else is doing things that you used to consider your own territory.
There is nothing wrong with the American space programme and it has a long and proud tradition, and folks like the ones making the Falcon rocket look to be making space reachable by private people in the future.
So why the pressing need to insult the Chinese?
Re:WTF is wrong with you Americans anyway? (Score:4, Insightful)
It's a discussion about Chinese space plans, how is discussion of other operators in the same arena not relevant and welcomed? Why did you come here if all you wanted was a "Good for you, China. I wish you the best." What's wrong with talking about how the US would have more money for similar projects if their wasn't a war in Iraq, or how China is such a media darling these days despite a terrible record of violence and oppression? What's wrong with talking about how the media is making up names for astronauts based on nationality for no real reason?
In short, why have "discussion" about topics if you only want to talk about them in a vacuum, a fantasy world where the only source of information, opinion, or impact, is from the article posted.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:but I thought??? (Score:5, Informative)
Tibet? Tibet was peanuts. Ditto Iraq.
If we're talking deaths, let's talk about "the great leap forward" or the "cultural revolution." Now we're in the big leagues.
Parent
Re:but I thought??? (Score:4, Insightful)
What the US has done in Iraq is orders of magnitude worse than what China has done in Tibet.
Has it occurred to you that the parent coward could be against both China's human rights abuses AND the war in Iraq? Why in the world is it okay for China to act like a dick just because you think the US has acted like a dick?
Parent
Re:but I thought??? (Score:5, Insightful)
Because people, as a whole, are jackasses and morons who don't think, they rationalize.
Parent
Better spent on food safety? (Score:3, Insightful)
China is spending millions on space suits and America is spending millions on bailing out big corporations. Strange how that works, huh?
Maybe they should spend that to keep people from putting melamine in their food.
Re:15 million dollar space suit ... (Score:4, Informative)
China is spending millions on space suits and America is spending millions on bailing out big corporations. Strange how that works, huh?
Full circle... from Wikipedia:
"AIG's history dates back to 1919, when Cornelius Vander Starr established an insurance agency in Shanghai, China."
Parent
Re:15 million dollar space suit ... (Score:5, Interesting)
And that's one of the biggest fears among some of us right now, that the US may wake up one morning and find that it has pissed away its advantage. I'm hoping that the opposite happens, that some real competition to the current American-Russian space alliance will convince Washington that there is something very real and tangible to be lost here.
Parent
Re:They want to play in their own sand box (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Re:Sky lab a used booster rocket (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
Not quite true (Score:5, Informative)
Initial design work on Skylab began in 1966, 7 years before it was launched, as part of the Apollo Applications Program. The original plan was to use the second stage of a Saturn-1B rocket, which was actually the same as the third stage of the Saturn V. Because of the smaller capacity of the Saturn 1B, it would be a fully fueled stage with access points added so the first crew could enter the empty stage in orbit and convert the interior, which only had minimal gear at the time of launch. This was called the "wet lab" configuration.
The limitations and complexity of that approach led to a switch to the Saturn V, launching its converted third stage dry and much more fully outfitted (which they could now afford to do since it was full of cryogenic hydrogen and oxygen), including a large docking module at one end, plus all the necessary life-support gear. A large optical telescope was also attached. Three manned missions ultimately were conducted on board Skylab.
The Chinese should be able to similarly reboost this mini space station and replenish consumables each time they visit. However, this will be a very small station. The total interior volume of four Shenzhou orbital modules is barely more than 10% of the interior volume of Skylab and about 1/3 the size of the Soviet Salyut stations. It will also have limited amounts of consumables and power. It won't afford them a lot of versatility.
Parent
Re:And it cost them how much? (Score:5, Insightful)
This brings up an interesting point. Fifty years ago, we had a similar view of Japan. That is, that they just made cheap little trinkets, but REAL manufacturing was done in the U.S. Then, almost overnight, they began making extremely good quality automobiles, electronics, optics, etc, and did it at less cost. I think we'll soon see the same pattern with China.
Parent