Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

News for nerds, stuff that matters

Slashdot Log In

Log In

Create Account  |  Retrieve Password

Has Superstition Evolved To Help Mankind Survive?

Posted by samzenpus on Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:57 PM
from the step-on-a-crack dept.
Pickens writes "The tendency to falsely link cause to effect — a superstition — is occasionally beneficial, says Kevin Foster, an evolutionary biologist at Harvard University. For example, a prehistoric human might associate rustling grass with the approach of a predator and hide. Most of the time, the wind will have caused the sound, but 'if a group of lions is coming there's a huge benefit to not being around.' Foster worked with mathematical language and a simple definition for superstition to determine exactly when such potentially false connections pay off and found as long as the cost of believing a superstition is less than the cost of missing a real association, superstitious beliefs will be favored. In modern times, superstitions turn up as a belief in alternative and homeopathic remedies. 'The chances are that most of them don't do anything, but some of them do,' Foster says. Wolfgang Forstmeier argues that by linking cause and effect — often falsely — science is simply a dogmatic form of superstition. 'You have to find the trade off between being superstitious and being ignorant,' Forstmeier says. By ignoring building evidence that contradicts their long-held ideas, 'quite a lot of scientists tend to be ignorant quite often.'"
+ -
story

Related Stories

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
 Full
 Abbreviated
 Hidden
More
Loading... please wait.
  • First (Score:5, Funny)

    by Philotic (957984) on Wednesday September 10 2008, @10:59PM (#24957247)
    I heard getting first post increases your life expectancy.
    • Re:Fist (Score:5, Funny)

      by Ethanol-fueled (1125189) * on Wednesday September 10 2008, @11:05PM (#24957321) Homepage
      Fist -- apply directly to your forehead!
      Fist -- apply directly to your forehead!
      Fist -- apply directly to your forehead!

      Because homeopathy is superstition.
        • Re:Fist (Score:5, Interesting)

          by ShieldW0lf (601553) on Thursday September 11 2008, @07:33AM (#24960325) Journal
          Knock on wood is a psychological tool to put things out of your mind so you don't dwell on them.

          Some superstitions are externally based and come from probability and intuition, not really caring if it's deterministic causation, probabilistic causation or purely co-relational. Others serve the purpose of regulating the internal world, controlling perspectives and where the mind is focused. Self administered psychotherapy, so to speak. Covet not thy neighbours wife, or you will dwell in hell, not because you're going to go there later, but because you're dismissing what you have for what you don't have and putting yourself in hell in your own head, that sort of shit.
    • Re:First (Score:5, Funny)

      by NoobixCube (1133473) on Thursday September 11 2008, @12:02AM (#24957791) Journal

      Trolls are notoriously hard to kill, so I'd say you're right :P.

      • Re:Religion (Score:5, Interesting)

        by thermian (1267986) on Thursday September 11 2008, @01:34AM (#24958369)

        As far as I'm concerned the same thing can be said of religion. Thousands of years ago, before we scientifically understood everything, we had religion to give us an inaccurate but constructive understanding of our world and our existence. However now religion has become obsolete and more accurate and scientific things are taking its place. This is obvious to me. I don't understand why all the Republicans don't get it.

        Religion wasn't obsoleted by science so much as by disease, at least in the west.
        Religion had a firm grip until the Black Plague hit Europe in the Middle Ages.

        During that time people felt, with good reason, that the church should be doing its job and getting God to sort it all out.
        This didn't happen, so there was a trend towards being less included to obey the church, and the first recorded attack on a monk by members of the public (an unbelievable event at the time).

        It didn't help the church that the survivors felt, rightly, that they were entitled to make a lot more decisions on their own about work, pay, housing and such. No longer were they satisfied with doing what they were told and being content with what they had.

        Following the plague, whilst religion regained some of its influence, especially in rural area's, its hold was never again universal, and has been in decline since.

        Science doesn't help, that's for sure, but you can't shake a true believer with science. The only thing likely to turn them is the belief that God has let them down somehow.

        • Re:Religion (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Sique (173459) on Thursday September 11 2008, @02:05AM (#24958579) Homepage

          Science doesn't help, that's for sure, but you can't shake a true believer with science.

          You can. Put a lightning rod on your roof and none of the roof of the church.

          • Re:Religion (Score:5, Informative)

            by thermian (1267986) on Thursday September 11 2008, @05:58AM (#24959685)

            Science doesn't help, that's for sure, but you can't shake a true believer with science.

            You can. Put a lightning rod on your roof and none of the roof of the church.

            Except Churches were the first building to use lightening rods..

            There's nothing like having the spires of loads of churches exploded off to make people think a little technology can be a good thing.

            Actually, thats not quite fair. The church was never against technology as such, just idea's that challenged their version of the world. Technology usually led to richer states, and therefore a richer church. It was things like 'Earth isn't the centre of the universe' and 'God didn't create the world in 7 days' that gets them twitchy.

            Heck, they even reverted back to a strict Aristotelian world view just to avoid the problems posed by Zero. Not because they were afraid of accounting, but because if such a thing as 'nothing' existed, then God couldn't be there, but he was meant to be everywhere. This caused an even wider rift, because of course, businessmen *did* like zero, it made accounts easier to keep.

        • Re:Religion (Score:5, Interesting)

          by somersault (912633) on Thursday September 11 2008, @03:07AM (#24958907) Homepage Journal

          Science doesn't help, that's for sure, but you can't shake a true believer with science. The only thing likely to turn them is the belief that God has let them down somehow.

          Mostly true. It's not so much the belief that God has let you down (there are plenty of excuses for that in Christianity), as a certain attitude of depression and a period in my life where everything was upside down anyway, and a combination of seeing some pretty decnt evidence for macro-evolution (species to species evolution by an organism evolving new abilities). A combination of a number of things are necessary for someone to change their beliefs without being brainwashed.

          So I think science and logic helps, but you can't reason someone out of their beliefs. They have to doubt them for themselves, otherwise they will just get very defensive and even more entrenched. You can present some evidence to them and leave it with them to let them compare and decide. It's scary losing your faith, especially if you believe in hell or have a lot of friends with the same beliefs, but it's better than living a lie.

              • Re:Religion (Score:5, Insightful)

                by PopeRatzo (965947) * on Thursday September 11 2008, @06:15AM (#24959761) Homepage Journal

                I find that I'm in a weird place where I still have 'Christian' morals, but I don't believe in God.

                Funny, but I've often thought of the best Christians as having "humanist" morals. Perspective is a funny thing.

                Somersault, as someone who spent a big part of my life as an academic, I've seen more than one "spiritual awakening" of a very religious person who learns to set aside childish superstitions.

                It's not an easy road, but when you can start to see that your morals come from the person you are instead of the fear of punishment, you are truly "putting aside childish things" as a wise man said.

        • Re:Religion (Score:5, Insightful)

          by tygerstripes (832644) on Thursday September 11 2008, @06:50AM (#24959973)

          IANAHistorian, but I've been given to understand that faith wasn't diminished by the Black Death, and you'd be hard pressed in the centuries that followed to find anyone in Britain who professed anything other than Christian faith. If anything people became more devout during and after the event - as tends to happen during any crisis. Consider that those who survived probably considered their survival a miracle in the first place...

          My understanding is that the economic impact of massive devastation to the working population was the real cause of change. Church and State were almost one and the same during that time, and so the church wielded an incredible amount of power over the daily material lives of the commoners. All land was owned either by the church or by nobles who were closely tied to it, and all workers were essentially beholden to the land-owners to earn a living, grow food etc - and the land-owners pretty much dictated the law and punishment too.

          When the population suddenly declined (about a third was lost), there were not enough workers to work the land and such. The balance of power shifted - not massively, but perceptibly - towards the workers. The iron grip was relaxed slightly, and this is what caused the increase in rebellion and unrest. Faith had not diminished, but the power to enforce arbitrary rule had.

          It wasn't that the events had shaken people's faith and made them dissatisfied - no doubt they always felt that way. It was that the church/state was somewhat less able to repress their will.

      • Re:Religion (Score:5, Insightful)

        by GayBliss (544986) on Thursday September 11 2008, @04:03AM (#24959163) Homepage
        The Republicans in charge do get it, and get it very well. They know how easy it is to control people through religion, and it's one of the most powerful tools they have. They figured out that you can do pretty much anything you want in the name of God, and you will be supported by a lot of people because they can pretend to be following you in the path of God, whether they actually believe it or not. It comes back to the same question: Is it easier to just continue believing it, or to wake up and do something about it?

        The current administration is about as anti-Christian as anyone can get, but all Bush has to do is tell people what a great Christian he is, and they believe it, while he murders innocent people, takes from the poor and gives to the rich, and pins medals on people for NOT helping tragedy victims nearby that are dying from lack of a drink of clean water. What Would Jesus Do? indeed.

        Yet if you ask most people which party is more religious, most would say Republican. And one the arguments I hear a lot from Republicans about why the Democrats are so bad is that they spend too much money helping the poor.

        I'm not saying Democrats are much better. Just that the Republicans have the religious thing figured out.
      • Re:Religion (Score:5, Informative)

        by FireFury03 (653718) <<slashdot> <at> <nexusuk.org>> on Thursday September 11 2008, @06:40AM (#24959907) Homepage

        As far as I'm concerned the same thing can be said of religion.

        I would say that religion falls firmly into the category of superstition.

        However, these guys seem to be using a different definition of superstition than I would: They are saying that superstition is a tendency to link cause and effect where that link is rarely true - the example of the rustling grass is a case where the link is rarely true, but the prehistoric human knows it is _occasionally_ true because she's seen people being eaten by lions after hearing the grass rustle (or has been told about such incidents). To me, this isn't an example of superstition, it is an example of assessing a real risk.

        I would describe superstition as a tendency to link cause and effect where there is no evidence that the link is *ever* true - take for example, belief in ghosts, religion, etc.

      • Re:Religion (Score:5, Insightful)

        by gstoddart (321705) on Thursday September 11 2008, @07:03AM (#24960055) Homepage

        However now religion has become obsolete and more accurate and scientific things are taking its place. This is obvious to me. I don't understand why all the Republicans don't get it.

        Science and Religion cover different aspects of human endeavors. Science didn't make religion obsolete.

        Heck, I'm mostly an atheist and I'm not sure why you'd think that. I know someone with a BSc, two MSc's, and a PhD -- he's still a practicing catholic. He just doesn't rely on the bible to explain the structure of the universe (he's a computational astrophysicist). He also doesn't use science to inform his morality and understanding of how we find meaning in all of it.

        They really are different disciplines, and they're not as fundamentally incompatible as people around here seem to think.

        Cheers

  • Not so sure (Score:5, Funny)

    by CaptainPatent (1087643) on Wednesday September 10 2008, @11:03PM (#24957299) Journal
    I hope they knocked three times on their desk and spun around in a circle before they did this study...
    Otherwise the results are completely wrong.
    • by BountyX (1227176) on Wednesday September 10 2008, @11:14PM (#24957399)
      In ancient times, knocking on wood was essential to survival. Slaves would often "knock" on wood after moving large stockpiles of wood. The "knocking" would help shake off many bugs after each handled load. Since many died from ticks or suffered from fleas, knocking on wood quickly caught on and became a superstition. Haha, just kidding the above was all just bs.
      • Re:Not so sure (Score:5, Informative)

        by cp.tar (871488) <cp.tar.bz2@gmail.com> on Thursday September 11 2008, @03:56AM (#24959131) Journal

        Yes, it is all BS, but a nice try nonetheless.
        AFAIK knocking on wood originates in Germanic and Slavic tribes' beliefs that trees are inhabited by spirits; knocking was supposed to alert the spirits to your presence, so that they could help you.

    • by JuzzFunky (796384) on Wednesday September 10 2008, @11:20PM (#24957459)
      Probably not... it is bad luck to believe in superstition.
  • not the same (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mapkinase (958129) on Wednesday September 10 2008, @11:04PM (#24957311) Homepage Journal

    Superstition is not as easily verifiable as scientific statements. I am not talking about money, science is more expensive that Mythbusters. I am talking about the design of scientific statements.

    The director of the scientific institution I grew up in said once that good scientific paper should answer to one yes-or-no question.

    Science is about analysis, superstition does not care. Science about cleaning up cause-effect relationship in nature to make a repeatable experiment in the lab, superstition just takes cause-effect pairs as they are - in a raw form mudded with all kind of unique circumstances.

    • by Moraelin (679338) on Thursday September 11 2008, @01:24AM (#24958325) Journal

      Well, I see his point, though. The mammalian brain didn't evolve to make scientific reproductible experiments and calculate the error bar. Any given creature wouldn't have enough data or the chance to perform some meaningful experiment. So learning some cause-effect pairs, no matter how flawed, is all that was available and better than nothing.

      E.g., if you're a goat and trying to eat one kind of bush gives you some nasty thorn wounds, you just remember that and move on. From now on, you avoid that bush if you can. You don't have the luxury to sample enough such bushes and enough such goats, divided neatly into two groups for a proper double-blind test, to see if you have a good sample. (And probably wouldn't live long if you did.) In practice, maybe that bush was growing through a barbed wire fence, but you wouldn't know that.

      The same would apply to the early humans too. If cousing Urgh and aunt Graah ate the funny spotted mushrooms and died, you avoid those mushrooms. You don't divide the tribe in two halves and do a double blind experiment to see if it was really the mushrooms.

      So they're not the same, but one of them was all that was available. And we're built to jump to conclusions, basically.

      • Re:not the same (Score:4, Insightful)

        by frieko (855745) on Thursday September 11 2008, @12:26AM (#24957967)
        But wasn't this all fairly obvious already? If you touch a fire and it burns you, you can either do science and test if it happens every time you touch it or just coincidence, or you can just be superstitious about not touching fire. Likewise wasn't it already suspected that vampire myths kept people away from rabid bats?
      • Re:not the same (Score:4, Insightful)

        by squidfood (149212) on Thursday September 11 2008, @12:36AM (#24958041)

        qso science is an improved version of superstition in terms of its value to humankind

        Indeed, the example of the lions and rustling grass isn't incorrectly correlating cause and effect, it's just a weak cause/effect relationship with a lot of noise in the data... still beneficial to act on depending on the risk analysis.

  • Placebo effect (Score:5, Insightful)

    by AoT (107216) on Wednesday September 10 2008, @11:05PM (#24957315) Homepage Journal

    Belief in Homeopathic medicine would also be beneficial because of the placebo effect.

      • Re:Placebo effect (Score:5, Interesting)

        by AoT (107216) on Wednesday September 10 2008, @11:27PM (#24957495) Homepage Journal

        The placebo effect is when you get the effects of having taken a medicine when you didn't really take it, so it would be beneficial because you could cure diseases, or maybe just symptoms, without actually needing an effective agent, just an agent that you believed to be effective.

        Isn't that kind of stupid to have a brain evolve a feature just to counteract another arbitrary feature?

        Maybe, but evolution can be pretty stupid sometimes. It works pretty much by brute force, sometimes literally, so it ends up taking strange routes. Remember, evolution is not guided, not stupid or smart, just a natural process.

        • Re:Placebo effect (Score:4, Informative)

          by NewbieProgrammerMan (558327) on Wednesday September 10 2008, @11:38PM (#24957599) Homepage

          The placebo effect is when you get the effects of having taken a medicine when you didn't really take it, so it would be beneficial because you could cure diseases, or maybe just symptoms, without actually needing an effective agent, just an agent that you believed to be effective.

          If I understand correctly (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong), the placebo effect is all about subjective measures of benefit. For example, if you give subjects a placebo pill for their back pain, and tell them it's a pain reliever, there's a measurable reduction in reported pain. However, if you give a placebo to people with an objectively measurable problem X, and tell them it's a cure for X, then there's a much smaller effect, or no effect at all.

          • Re:Placebo effect (Score:4, Interesting)

            by obeymydog (1243568) on Wednesday September 10 2008, @11:50PM (#24957677)
            The placebo effect isn't really confined to subjective measures, at least not according to the results of modern neurophysiological investigation. The reason is that lots of the chemical activities involved with consciousness/thought have effects that extend beyond individual subjectivity, into immune and endocrine function, for instance (the field of psychoneuroimmunology is starting to identify some compelling examples).
          • Re:Placebo effect (Score:4, Interesting)

            by AoT (107216) on Wednesday September 10 2008, @11:33PM (#24957553) Homepage Journal

            I don't know. If I could explain the placebo effect I'd be a millionaire. Again, evolution, which is how the placebo effect came to be, doesn't work as we would like it to. It doesn't take the most direct route and it doesn't make sense. So don't ask me to explain why it doesn't make sense.

            • Re:Placebo effect (Score:5, Interesting)

              by Mr. Slippery (47854) <`tms' `at' `infamous.net'> on Thursday September 11 2008, @02:13AM (#24958629) Homepage

              If I could explain the placebo effect I'd be a millionaire.

              The problem is that there are several different things that get lumped under the label "placebo effect":

              • Patient experiences no difference in their perception of symptoms, but feels compelled by social pressure to report an improvement. I.e., "It still hurts as much as ever, but I don't want to disappoint Dr. Smith, so I'll say it's better."
              • Patient has no difference in symptoms, but perceives them differently. The pain signal arriving at the brain is unchanged, but comes to be processed differently.
              • Patient believes in ability of the healer or treatment, gains confidence that they will recover, stress responses are reduced, and the immune and parasympathetic responses are improved.
              • Patient gains feelings of acceptance into their tribe/social group as a result of being tended to by the healer. Stress responses are reduced, and their relationship to their community is transformed; a new psychological perspective may be adopted that changes their "will to live" and perception of their "quality of life". Humans are social animals, and I think the social aspects of healing have been tremendously underexamined.
              • Patient comes to feel empowered over their own health because they are able to take simple actions, and so are eventually led to make lifestyle changes that lead to improvements.
              • Patient benefits from non-specific aspects of treatment. For example, after placebo surgery [google.com], skilled nursing during recovery may well have benefits. (I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that every double-blind placebo-controlled study of a surgical technique, has found the surgery to be no better than a placebo cut. Yet many "skeptics" who demand rigorous double-blind studies of "alternative" treatments will go under the knife without a second thought.)

              There are probably more things going on too.

              Interesting article on the placebo effect by Ted Kaptchuk here [acupuncture.com]. If you can find it, his book with Michael Croucher, The Healing Arts: Exploring the Medical Ways of the World, is an excellent read.

              • Re:Placebo effect (Score:4, Insightful)

                by AoT (107216) on Wednesday September 10 2008, @11:51PM (#24957685) Homepage Journal

                I was saying that homeopathic medicine of the sort that doesn't actually have medicinal effects is a superstition, and that said superstition would be beneficial to individuals thus increasing their evolutionary fitness.

                It never takes an indirect route to a goal.

                Correct, there is no goal to which evolution could take an indirect route.

                I'm just saying you didn't explain anything by saying something evolved to help cause people to take advantage of the placebo effect, that doesn't make sense.

                Why not? If I said that thumbs evolved because they allowed us to make better use of our hands it would explain something. Things evolve in the context of the whole organism and are beneficial or deleterious in that context, among others.

              • Re:Placebo effect (Score:5, Informative)

                by eln (21727) on Thursday September 11 2008, @12:06AM (#24957821) Homepage

                It never takes an indirect route to a goal.

                Evolution has a goal?

                The placebo effect probably evolved. It may or may not be beneficial. Humans make the mistake of assuming that we are the pinnacle of evolution, and therefore every trait we possess must be of benefit for some reason. In fact, we are not the pinnacle of evolution, and we still possess many traits that make little sense from a "survival of the fittest" standpoint. The placebo effect may be evolutionarily advantageous, but it might also just be an evolutionary dead end.

                  • Re:Placebo effect (Score:5, Insightful)

                    by atraintocry (1183485) on Thursday September 11 2008, @01:36AM (#24958385)
                    Biologists tend to avoid using the word goal at all, even in a neutered sense. There is a human tendency to bring teleology into things when answering the question of why something happens. But part of what separates modern science from the work of, say, the ancient Greeks, is the mechanistic vs. teleological approach.

                    Consider the difference here (practically, it's the same - philosophically, it's not):
                    - Evolution happens so that life can continue to exist.
                    - Life continues to exist because of evolution (genetic mutations + natural selection).

                    Right now the wikipedia article on teleology [wikipedia.org] sums it up as function following form rather than vice versa. The point being that, not is only evolution not conscious, it has no goals. Not even the preservation of life.

                    That said, it does seem like life tries pretty damn hard to perpetuate itself, doesn't it? But there is no scientific basis for assigning a goal to evolution. We do ourselves a disservice by seeing something and declaring that it has to be that way.
          • Re:Placebo effect (Score:5, Insightful)

            by Wonko the Sane (25252) * <wts42@yahoo.com> on Wednesday September 10 2008, @11:58PM (#24957753) Homepage Journal

            Ok, well why does it require you to believe it? If the body can just magically fix itself, why have conscious thought involved?

            • Your body is pretty good at repairing itself. Your immune system will successfully eliminate vast majority of illnesses you encounter in your life. (most problems will go away on their own no matter if you do anything or not)
            • stress is known to have numerous harmful effects, including decreased resistance to disease.
            • If you give someone a pill they they believe will cure them, this reduces anxiety (stress) and lets the body be more efficient at healing.
  • by syousef (465911) on Wednesday September 10 2008, @11:06PM (#24957329) Journal

    There are plenty of examples of flawed superstitious beliefs leading to an equally large disadvantage or equally great damage. For examples see what happens to people who join cults. For a really good extreme example much more elloquently stated than I possibly could take a look at Carl Sagan's "The Demon Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark" and look for a persuasive argument why Nancy and Ronald Reagan consulting fortune tellers and horoscopes might not be a good thing when Ron's got his finger on the nuclear button. Wiping out most species on the planet has to qualify as an evolutionary step backwards.

    • by blahplusplus (757119) * on Wednesday September 10 2008, @11:50PM (#24957675)

      "There are plenty of examples of flawed superstitious beliefs leading to an equally large disadvantage or equally great damage. "

      No doubt but knowing who has truth from who doesn't is a hard problem, science and peer review are are flawed because humans aren't good at detecting what is true from what is not in their own thought processes, concepts and philosophies.

      If there were errors in how we think about things (ie. base concepts) then there are errors all the way down. I've been studying this, concepts are the lenses by which people see and interpret the world but few people understand the process by which concepts/knowledge are conceived by a person before they are passed down.

      All people operate under tremendous amounts of ignorance, hence Socrates said "All I know is that I know nothing", he knew knowledge was endless.

      Socrates often said his wisdom was limited to an awareness of his own ignorance. Socrates believed wrongdoing was a consequence of ignorance and those who did wrong knew no better. The one thing Socrates consistently claimed to have knowledge of was "the art of love" which he connected with the concept of "the love of wisdom", i.e., philosophy. He never actually claimed to be wise, only to understand the path a lover of wisdom must take in pursuing it. It is debatable whether Socrates believed humans (as opposed to gods like Apollo) could actually become wise. On the one hand, he drew a clear line between human ignorance and ideal knowledge; on the other, Plato's Symposium (Diotima's Speech) and Republic (Allegory of the Cave) describe a method for ascending to wisdom.

      Socrates believed the best way for people to live was to focus on self-development rather than the pursuit of material wealth. He always invited others to try to concentrate more on friendships and a sense of true community, for Socrates felt this was the best way for people to grow together as a populace. His actions lived up to this: in the end, Socrates accepted his death sentence when most thought he would simply leave Athens, as he felt he could not run away from or go against the will of his community; as mentioned above, his reputation for valor on the battlefield was without reproach.

      The idea that humans possessed certain virtues formed a common thread in Socrates' teachings. These virtues represented the most important qualities for a person to have, foremost of which were the philosophical or intellectual virtues. Socrates stressed that "virtue was the most valuable of all possessions; the ideal life was spent in search of the Good. Truth lies beneath the shadows of existence, and it is the job of the philosopher to show the rest how little they really know."

    • I love it when people use examples that not only don't prove their point, but actively work against it.

      look for a persuasive argument why Nancy and Ronald Reagan consulting fortune tellers and horoscopes might not be a good thing when Ron's got his finger on the nuclear button.

      Did Reagan launch any nukes during the 80's? No? Then your argument is completely flawed. In fact, since he didn't launch after consulting fortune tellers, it would appear that using fortune tellers actually helps prevent nuclear annihilation. Or maybe I'm just being superstitious in seeing that cause and effect.

      Wiping out most species on the planet has to qualify as an evolutionary step backwards.

      It's almost like you've never read any Darwin or Dawkins, whatsoever. As long your species thrives, you're an evolutionary success, regardless of what happens to other species. In fact, if you beat other species at the game of survival, you're an unqualified success. So, no, wiping out other species by theoretically "pushing the button" is not an evolutionary step backward.

      • by k33l0r (808028) on Thursday September 11 2008, @01:49AM (#24958475) Homepage Journal

        look for a persuasive argument why Nancy and Ronald Reagan consulting fortune tellers and horoscopes might not be a good thing when Ron's got his finger on the nuclear button.

        Did Reagan launch any nukes during the 80's? No? Then your argument is completely flawed. In fact, since he didn't launch after consulting fortune tellers, it would appear that using fortune tellers actually helps prevent nuclear annihilation. Or maybe I'm just being superstitious in seeing that cause and effect.

        "Post hoc ergo propter hoc"

        You are committing a logical fallacy. By the same logic:
        Reagan ate breakfast each morning. Therefore breakfast prevents nuclear war.

    • by Moraelin (679338) on Thursday September 11 2008, @07:15AM (#24960159) Journal

      Well, that's a recent thing though.

      E.g., antibiotics exist only since the 1930's. So only since then you have choices like, basically, "do I trust the doctor and take these pills, or do I trust the shaman and take this extract of Aqua Clara?"

      If you go back, say, 5 centuries, already the choices were a lot more like:

      A. "Do I trust the alchemist and drink the Aqua Vitae, or do I trust the barber-doctor and let him draw a pint of blood, do I trust the priest and pray real hard to God?" All three were wrong, and actually the first two were _worse_. The alchemists only had distilled alcohol as a cure-all placebo, and drawing blood tended to be worse in the vast majority of cases than doing nothing. So blind faith and superstition might actually have been the better choice in a lot of cases.

      B. "Do I trust the superstition that storing pots and dishes with the opening downwards repels evil spirits, or am I an enlightened renaissance man and laugh at such superstitions?" Again, actually the superstition had a point. Dust setting into pots was harmful, and even if nobody had seen a microbe, some people did figure out a correlation between how you store your empty pottery and how often you get sick.

      Heck, as late as the 19'th century, during the cholera outbreaks, the superstitious folks had better chances of survival. Mortality in the homeopathic hospitals was actually lower than in the proper medical establishment ones. Of course, homeopathy was still bullshit, but the doctors also bled you dry as the only treatment method they knew, while the homeopaths merely gave you harmless water to drink. (Or rather, solutions of something or another, but so dilluted that they were effectively just water.) The homeopathic solution didn't help, while the other actually caused extra harm to someone already dehydrated and weakened.

      Likewise, in the 90'th century, some 50% of the women who gave birth with a doctor would die of septicemic shock, whereas among those who trusted a midwife mortality was a _lot_ lower. Some people actually proposed that doctors wash their hands after performing autopsies on corpses, and before operating or helping people give birth, but that was discounted as a ridiculous superstition. Well, what do you know? The superstitious guys killed a lot less patients. There actually were some nasty germs which the rest got off corpses, and just helped transplant them into previously healthy people.

      Etc.

      And if you go even further back in time, to when the brain evolved to jump to conclusions and make such hasty generalizations from too little data, the choice was even simple. "I tried to go through this thorny bush, and it hurt for a week. Do I (A) generalize and avoid this kind of bush, or (B) think you can't learn anything from a sample of one, and try again with a dozen other bushes like this?" Or like, "I ate that spotty mushroom and threw up my immortal soul, and was sick for a week. Do I (A) hastily generalize that there's something evil about them, and avoid them, or (B) think it was just a statistically insignifficant coincidence, and try again?"

      Simply put, option A was the _safer_ one. Sure, it was sometimes wrong. Sometimes it wasn't the bush, it was the patch of poison ivy it was in. Sometimes it wasn't the mushroom, it was simply an illness which happened at the wrong time. But there was no way to know better anyway. Getting some quick empirical cause-effect rules was the best you could do.

      Option B wasn't that safe at all. A lot of time trying something harmful again, just to see if you got the cause right, would outright get you killed.

      Don't get me wrong. I'm not against science or medicine or anything. Sure, _nowadays_ that's a better choice than superstition and empirical generalizations. Very much so. But the interval where we even had that choice at all is infinitesimal, at evolution scales. We had medicine for less than 100 years, the human species alone is 200,000 years old.

  • by catbutt (469582) on Wednesday September 10 2008, @11:15PM (#24957405)
    Our brains are made to continue to think about things until we figure them out....that's what curiousity is and it's key to intelligence.

    Problem is, if our brain is unable to find the answer, it's best to have some sort of exception handler break it out of the loop. That's where superstition comes in. So we don't spend all day trying to answer questions about, say, how we came to be, as opposed to trying to figure out why our bow and arrow doesn't shoot as straight as we'd like.

    That's my theory anyway.
    • Zeus (Score:5, Informative)

      by ShakaUVM (157947) on Thursday September 11 2008, @12:17AM (#24957905) Homepage Journal

      The problem with this article and other stories is that it's not superstition they're dealing with.

      I recall one study where they shocked cats or something if they walked too close to an object, and reported that the cats had developed a "superstitious" aversion to the object, obviously showing how gullible and stupid all of us carbon-based life forms are, and how religion is probably just a complex fraud.

      Of course, the problem is that the cats weren't being superstitious. There WAS actually an invisible man in the sky throwing fucking lightning bolts at them, and they learned that correlation.

      I know that if I got hit by a lightning bolt every time I climbed to the top of half-dome, I'd damn well stop climbing to the top of Half Dome. I don't need Zeus, or even a working understanding of electromagnetism, to come to that conclusion. I'd avoid it.

    • by plover (150551) * on Thursday September 11 2008, @12:53AM (#24958151) Homepage Journal

      So we don't spend all day trying to answer questions about, say, how we came to be, as opposed to trying to figure out why our bow and arrow doesn't shoot as straight as we'd like.

      VEG-e-tar-i-an - Native American for 'bad hunter with crooked arrow.'

  • Not Exactly. (Score:4, Informative)

    by BlueBoxSW.com (745855) on Wednesday September 10 2008, @11:15PM (#24957415) Homepage

    What is described in the example is known as Partial Reinforcement, not Superstition.

  • by obeymydog (1243568) on Wednesday September 10 2008, @11:23PM (#24957473)
    Ignoring the painfully vague inclusion criteria for "alternative" treatments, it's just plain wrong to lump every non-pharmaceutical/medical treatment in with a sham like homeopathy. There's solid biochemical/clinical research to support a number of therapeutically active plant compounds and conservative treatment strategies that would probably be considered alternatives to conventional medical protocols. This sort of arrogant badmouthing keeps patients from getting decent information about their treatment options.
  • Murhpy's law? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Max Romantschuk (132276) <max@romantschuk.fi> on Wednesday September 10 2008, @11:32PM (#24957539) Homepage

    As a programmer I constantly refer to Murhy's law. It helps me through the day by expecting the worst and being positively surprised when my code does what it's supposed to. ;)

    Superstition? Why the hell not? It's not very rational is it... But it seems to work for me.

    But those elaborate see-a-black-cat-throw-salt-and-spit-over-your-shoulder superstitions? Naah...

  • by PPH (736903) on Wednesday September 10 2008, @11:34PM (#24957565)

    Superstitions, culture, religion has had its place in ensuring the safety of the believers. Take a look at the dietary restrictions of various religions. Often, they concocted supernatural explanations for diseases or parasites that we understand today. Like prohibitions against eating pork or shellfish. The cost of continuing to avoid such foods, even when we understand the science and can prepare them safely is minimal.

    However, there are times when the refusal to understand explanations behind superstitions cost our ancestors dearly. Take cats. Cats coexisted with ancient man as efficient means to keeping rodents out of grain stores. After a time, some civilizations came to hold cats in high regard, even worship them. Ancient Egypt is one example. Enter Christianity. Rather than examine the basis of other religions and cultures reverence for the cat (understanding their practical utility shouldn't have been that hard, even in the middle ages), they associated cats with pagan religions and eventually witchcraft. Cats were feared, driven out of human habitations and killed en mass. Now, the bubonic plague arrives. Societies that didn't buy into the cat loathing of Christianity fared far better then those that did.

  • by urIkon (1073202) on Thursday September 11 2008, @03:51AM (#24959111)

    I can't believe no one's touched on this yet.

    http://pegasus.cc.ucf.edu/~fle/gazzaniga.html [ucf.edu]

    Executive summary:

    Neuropsychology student is studying split-brain patients- people with injuries or diseases that inhibit the hemispheres of the brain from communicating. Their brains function normally kind of, except no information is passed between the two hemispheres.

    Speech, or more specifically, translating what you see into words, is predominantly handled by your left hemisphere. Your left visual field is handled by your right hemisphere, and your right visual field by your left.

    One experiment he conducted was showing different pictures to each eye at the same time, and then asking the subject to point to a card showing a picture that relates to the image shown.

    One subject was shown a picture a picture of a chicken claw to his right eye (left hem.), and a snow covered landscape to his left (right hem.). The subject then pointed to a chicken with his right hand (again, controlled by left hem), and a shovel with his left (right!). Obviously, the logic behind his choice was the claw belongs to a chicken, and you need a shovel to shovel snow. However, when asked to explain his choice, the subject responded with something to the tune of, "The claw belongs to a chicken, and you need a shovel to clean the chicken shed."

    Even though acting independently he was able to correctly deduce the response, the lack of communication between the hemispheres meant that when his left hemisphere was trying to put it all into words, it was unable to recall why he chose the shovel from the right hemisphere of the brain.

    Gazzaniga (the student conducting the test) believes that in the left hemisphere of the brain lies what he calls the interpreter: a part of your brain whose sole function is to try to rationalize what we do not understand. An evolved speculation machine. Like the article said, I probably served an evolutionary purpose in that it kept us paranoid and safe in the grasslands, but odds are this is also the same part of the brain that saw lightning and concluded there must be an unseen humanoid in the sky making it. Or, when the great questions of "why?" and "how?" concerning our world began to plague the mind, the same brainpiece reached the same god conclusion.

    It may have been evolutionarily useful at the time, but like male nipples, serves only to confuse, bewilder, and slow progress anymore. Nietzsche killed it.

    • by Jason Levine (196982) on Wednesday September 10 2008, @11:41PM (#24957621) Homepage

      Why not tell them right away: You may drown.

      One day while driving, my five year old managed to unlock and open his car door. The door stayed mostly shut long enough for me to pull over and close it. I sternly warned him that if he did that again, he could fall out of the car and be seriously hurt. When he didn't seem phased by that, I told him that his toy could fall out of the open door and be lost. He got very frightened and promised not to do that again. (He hasn't.) Why the different reaction? I think that falling out of a car and being seriously hurt is an abstract concept to him. He just can't really imagine what it would feel like. But losing a toy that he likes, that he can easily imagine. Sometimes with kids the bigger threat isn't the one that they can wrap their minds around and thus isn't the scarier option.

      • by slew (2918) on Thursday September 11 2008, @02:15AM (#24958641)

        As Richard Feynman once said "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts"

        He also had this comment in his classic speech "Cargo Cult Science"

        We have learned a lot from experience about how to handle some of the ways we fool ourselves. One example: Millikan measured the charge on an electron by an experiment with falling oil drops, and got an answer which we now know not to be quite right. It's a little bit off because he had the incorrect value for the viscosity of air. It's interesting to look at the history of measurements of the charge of an electron, after Millikan. If you plot them as a function of time, you find that one is a little bit bigger than Millikan's, and the next one's a little bit bigger than that, and the next one's a little bit bigger than that, until finally they settle down to a number which is higher.

        Why didn't they discover the new number was higher right away? It's a thing that scientists are ashamed of -- this history -- because it's apparent that people did things like this: when they got a number that was too high above Millikan's, they thought something must be wrong -- and they would look for and find a reason why something might be wrong. When they got a number close to Millikan's value they didn't look so hard. And so they eliminated the numbers that were too far off, and did other things like that. We've learned those tricks nowadays, and now we don't have that kind of a disease.

        But this long history of learning how to not fool ourselves -- of having utter scientific integrity -- is, I'm sorry to say, something that we haven't specifically included in any particular course that I know of. We just hope you've caught on by osmosis

        The first principle is that you must not fool yourself -- and you are the easiest person to fool. So you have to be very careful about that. After you've not fooled yourself, it's easy not to fool other scientists. You just have to be honest in a conventional way after that.

        I don't think I'm as optimistic as Feynman that it's only a small group of scientists that don't have "that kind of disease"...