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The Phoenix Has Landed

Posted by CmdrTaco on Sun May 25, 2008 07:44 PM
from the zomg-we-found-ponys dept.
Mars Space Science
Iddo Genuth writes "Precisely at 7:53PM EST, the "Phoenix Mars Lander" touched-down on the desert-like surface of Mars. Since its launch on August 4th, 2007, the spacecraft has covered more than 680,752,512 kilometers, traveling at average speeds of around 120,000 km/hr. Upon arriving at its destination, the Phoenix will begin its exploration of our intriguing neighbor planet, in a mission to help astronomers resolve at least some of the many questions regarding Mars. The key question remains: can the Red Planet support some form of life?" Hella grats to our nerd brethren — you looked great on the Science channel. Yes I'm watching this live. Can't wait to see what happens next.
Update: 05/26 03:0 GMT by KD : zof sends a link to the first pictures from Phoenix.
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Submission: The Phoenix Has Landed by Iddo Genuth (903542)
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  • live (Score:5, Funny)

    by Brian Gordon (987471) on Sunday May 25 2008, @07:48PM (#23539645)
    Can't imagine it's very live what with the lightspeed delay..

    • Re:live (Score:5, Insightful)

      by explosivejared (1186049) <hagan.jared@g[ ]l.com ['mai' in gap]> on Sunday May 25 2008, @07:53PM (#23539677)
      Well, if you are going to be pedantic nothing is really live because relativity precludes true simultaneity. I think we all understand what he means.

      All in all, it does my heart well to see such mainstream coverage of the event. My parents, who are sort of aloof to anything scientific, are even paying attention to it on the 24 hour news. It's these sort of things turning into moments that reach across all of society that inspire new generations of kids to become scientists.

    • Re:live (Score:5, Funny)

      by noidentity (188756) on Monday May 26 2008, @01:00AM (#23541409)

      Can't imagine it's very live what with the lightspeed delay..

      That's just so any Martian profanity can be edited out by the FCC before it reaches America.

  • Doesn't even have to be live life... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Penguinisto (415985) on Sunday May 25 2008, @07:49PM (#23539647) Journal
    Personally, I think it would be damned cool if they found an indisputable fossil. It would force a whole lot of philosophical re-thinking, and probably give a huge-assed push towards getting humans into space (well, those who don't suddenly get scared silly and decide to crawl into a cave, hoping the aliens pass us by or somesuch).

    But then... what if they do find evidence of life? I mean large, complex forms of life, not some fossilized bacteria that everyone will debate and bitch about. That's what I'm hoping they dig up.

    /P

    • Re:Doesn't even have to be live life... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Brian Gordon (987471) on Sunday May 25 2008, @07:50PM (#23539661)
      What are the chances of puttering around for a few hundred meters on earth and randomly finding a human skeleton?..

      • Re:Doesn't even have to be live life... (Score:5, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 25 2008, @07:57PM (#23539713)
        In my neighborhood? Pretty good.

      • Re:Doesn't even have to be live life... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Jeremi (14640) on Sunday May 25 2008, @08:00PM (#23539739) Homepage
        A human skeleton? Not very high. But any skeleton? In areas that used to be underwater, you often find fossilized imprints of shellfish, etc, every few inches.
      • And one of them has something identifying him as "John Carter".

      • lander, not rover (Score:4, Informative)

        by Garganus (890454) on Sunday May 25 2008, @08:16PM (#23539847)
        I understand your point. Just so we're all clear, though; Phoenix sits on legs, not wheels, so there will be no 'puttering around' the pole.

      • What are the chances of puttering around for a few hundred meters on earth and randomly finding a human skeleton?..

        Pretty good if you touch down at a well chosen landing site. You just need to find the Martian equivalent of the Manson ranch, or an empty lot with disturbed soil near the Martian Mafia. Given the planet's drying history, there would have been a lot of drifters, and similarly criminals to prey upon them.

        Some people say I've been reading to much Heinlein lately...

      • Re:Doesn't even have to be live life... (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Jeff Fohl (597433) on Sunday May 25 2008, @08:33PM (#23539949) Homepage

        What are the chances of puttering around for a few hundred meters on earth and randomly finding a human skeleton?..
        I was surprised when I found that Phoenix has no mobility. But then, I have thought about it for all of 5 minutes, while the NASA engineers have thought about it for 5 years, so there must have been a good reason to leave that feature out.
        • The short answer, to keep inside the weight budget. When you add wheels, you need to compromise on the science instruments.

          So Phoenix packs much better science gear than the rovers, and to compensate they just try to drop it somewhere uniform and with a decent chance of finding what you are looking for regardless of the specific drop point.

        • What are the chances of puttering around for a few hundred meters on earth and randomly finding a human skeleton?..

          I was surprised when I found that Phoenix has no mobility. But then, I have thought about it for all of 5 minutes, while the NASA engineers have thought about it for 5 years, so there must have been a good reason to leave that feature out.

          Two reasons: The first is weight - mobility systems cost a great of it, and every gram alloted to them is a gram that can't be spent on science. Which also means that had it wheels, Phoenix would be limited to same modest science package the rovers have. The second is mission life time - unlike the rovers, the odds of Phoenix dying once winter comes are near unity. Which means that a notional wheeled Phoenix with it's much more modest science package won't cover much ground before freezing to death.

      • Re:Doesn't even have to be live life... (Score:5, Interesting)

        by mikael (484) on Sunday May 25 2008, @08:39PM (#23539987)
        Wikipedia has an estimate of the total number of people that has ever lived [wikipedia.org] at 45 billion to 125 billion people.

        It also provides a map of population density in the world. Another article provides information on the surface area of the Earth. [wikipedia.org]

        Approximately 29.2% of the surface is dry land. 13.31% of this land is arable, with only 4.71% supporting permanent crops.

        148,940,000 km is dry land. (1.940 x 10^14 mÂ)

        Assuming a buried person takes up 1 square metre.

        Assume that there have been 120 billion skeletons buried all over the place (125 minus 5 billion still living).

        Then you have 1.20 x 10^11 / (1.940 x 10^14 mÂ)

        which gives 1.20 / 1.940 x 10^-3

        or 0.000618556

        6.18556 x 10^-3

        So, you have a 1/1616 chance of finding a skeleton. Your odds will be affected by the cultural traditions of the local population, the local geology (limestone will dissolve bone). The natives might think twice about burying tribe members on farm land.

    • But then... what if they do find evidence of life? I mean large, complex forms of life, not some fossilized bacteria that everyone will debate and bitch about. That's what I'm hoping they dig up.

      Uh, only then we would be forced to worship that life's crystal skeletons...
    • That's what I'm hoping they dig up.

      I'm hoping it finds Jimmy Hoffa. Or maybe the second gunman.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by gmuslera (3436)
      What kind of philosophical rethinking? that life ever could only exist in Earth? Thats looks more religion than philosophy.

      Or science, if there is an agreement that Mars could had never sustained complex/big lifeforms.

      Or, as someone else suggested, math, because we beat badly the odds of finding something life related doing a relatively very short trip in something that looks more like a desert than a jungle (well, in this case we will go back to religion very soon).

  • Enormous congratulations to them all (Score:3, Interesting)

    by spoco2 (322835) on Sunday May 25 2008, @08:05PM (#23539779) Homepage
    To have a successful landing of this sort on Mars is brilliant, and continues to build hope that there might be a manned mission there in my lifetime, I can only hope.

    Ever since I read the Mars Trilogy (red, green, blue) I have really hoped that it could come true in some way like those books show. (not all the bad obviously)... I would love to see it start, I really would.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Enleth (947766)
        There actually is a lot of scientific advancement, in the form of all the technology that needs to be invented, designed and perfected. If you hava some spare time and do a bit of research, you'll realise that a lot of supposedly everyday items and technologies we use now are possible due to the space races during the Cold War. For example, the materials used for space suits and heat shields were a starting point for some of the today's textiles used for clothing and construction materials for industrial ma

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Martin Blank (154261)
        Define what a "real" scientific advancement would be, please.

      • Re:Enormous congratulations to them all (Score:5, Insightful)

        by spoco2 (322835) on Sunday May 25 2008, @10:18PM (#23540539) Homepage
        Would you have said the same thing to people inventing the sailing ship all those moons ago?

        "Oh, other than the feeling of putting people on another country, what's the point?"

        It's attitudes like this, that are so very narrow and shallow minded that cause people to become insular and think only of their own back yard in all affairs.

        Other than the scientific achievements in doing this, there is the overall good it does to the human spirit to see ourselves as a race be able to conquer the distances, to think of a huge problem like this and surmount it with science.

        If it encourages kids to do more in the way of science rather than religious persecution etc., I'm all for it.

  • Congratulations... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by JavaBasedOS (1217930) on Sunday May 25 2008, @08:08PM (#23539793)
    ... to those scientists that worked hard and put both heart and soul for at least a decade on Phoenix. I can't wait to see what images and data we get from Phoenix.

    It's going to be an eventful summer here on Earth, that's for sure.

  • What gets me is... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jamstar7 (694492) on Sunday May 25 2008, @08:11PM (#23539819)
    all the work that went into the mission so far that made this look easy. It wasn't. But they did a helluva job on the prep work to make it look like business as usual.

    Great job, JPL & Arizona!

  • Junkyboy55 (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Junkyboy55 (1183037) <.pavan. .at. .teknobot.net.> on Sunday May 25 2008, @08:11PM (#23539821) Homepage
    Knowing some of the engineers that work on and manage these programs I am very happy with landing and everything it represents. More so I am looking forward to other robots, not the rover type but different task oriented machines like Robonaut [nasa.gov] and Chariot [nasa.gov] to make it off of Earth!

  • Amazing how short sighted ppl are (Score:5, Interesting)

    by WindBourne (631190) on Sunday May 25 2008, @08:19PM (#23539859) Journal
    Years ago, we put vikings up on mars. The more amazing in that they were nuke powered. Now, we fight about it all the time. Even phoenix would be better served had it been nuke powered. But now, about half of the ppl do not want human systems going, another group fights sending nuke power up, and another wants NASA dead altogether. Back in the 60's and 70's, we all came together on saying that ALL of this was important; Long term robotic probes AND human missions AND the environment (as we understood it). It was not one vs. the other.

    A couple of days ago, I mentioned that the reason for human missions to the moon was because of uranium/plutonium. Yet, ppl were upset about what a waste human missions were without realizing that we could fire up new MUCH LARGER missions to mars and elsewhere and let them use plutonium. I never bought off on W's idea that the moon would be a good launch pad based on the hydrogen that is there. But if we have LOADS of plutonium, that is a different matter. We can easily rail launch missions combined with large amount of energy via plutonium without worrying about it being spread all over the earth's atmosphere. Hopefully, at some point, Americans realize that one idea does not need to preclude another. For instance, human missions do not need to prevent robotics from going (or vs. versa).

    • Re:Amazing how short sighted ppl are (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 25 2008, @09:25PM (#23540263)
      Hello, NASA engineer here. Look up the Mars Science Lander (MSL) mission being built at JPL (link below). Nuke powered and huge. Upgrade from the Vikings mission since it has WHEELS. Will launch in September 2009.

      http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/

  • Late Breaking News (Score:5, Funny)

    by freefrag (728150) on Sunday May 25 2008, @08:24PM (#23539905)
    Amidst of rumors of yet another invasion by the heinous creatures of the blue planet, the most Illustrious Council of Elders confirmed that another mechanical war machine recently landed successfully on the homeworld. K'breel, speaker for the Council, stressed that plans for defense were well underway:

    Gentle Citizens, today my gelsacs frumple in anticipation of the successful counterattack on the two-eyed monsters of the blue planet. Our sources indicate that while their latest mechanical terror has an experimental weapon to bore into our colonies, it has landed far from our podhomes and will soon be destroyed by this zunok's unusually powerful dust storms. Victory against our enemies is near! Our scientists report that our climate disruptor probes are currently in full operation and will make the blue planet uninhabitable within the next 5 zon.
    When dissenters questioned whether the warming of our enemy's planet was due to his own self-destructive habits or our weaponry, K'Breel ordered their gelsacs pierced on the spot.

    • Re:Late Breaking News (Score:5, Informative)

      by Tablizer (95088) on Sunday May 25 2008, @08:43PM (#23539999) Homepage Journal
      When dissenters questioned whether the warming of our enemy's planet was due to his own self-destructive habits or our weaponry, K'Breel ordered their gelsacs pierced on the spot.

      Shit! Space is still no escape from stupid leaders.
         

  • Next story on Slashdot (Score:5, Funny)

    by teh moges (875080) on Sunday May 25 2008, @08:41PM (#23539995) Homepage
    Phoenix Mars Lander Touched Down 2 Hours ago

  • did anyone else notice the logo? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Cyko_01 (1092499) on Sunday May 25 2008, @08:43PM (#23540003) Homepage
    was I the only one who saw the phoenix project logo [phoenixprojectma.org] and thought it looked remarkably similar the Firefox logo? Firefox was originally called phoenix was it not? Coincidence? I think not!

  • In English... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 25 2008, @08:52PM (#23540043)
    Units.

    Phoenix went exactly 423,000,000 miles at the leisurely pace of 20.7 miles a second.

    Now if we had done something really COOL, like drive there in a Jeep Commander, we would have used 22,263,157 gallons of gas and been MUCH better prepared for Mars.

    Someone will bitch about fuel cost. OK, look at this: at $4/gallon it would cost $108,972,294 -- that's $411,027,706 cheaper than this $520M "good deal". Jeep is currently offering a $2.99 gas lock-in which would bring the total savings to $453,433,160. I mean WOW, they could spend the rest on parties and just tell us it's really, really complicated.

    Now ask if the Phoenix has 4 wheel drive. Or A/C. Or the peace of mind knowing it's fully covered under a manufacturer's warranty.

    Tough to beat if you ask me..

  • first images 2200 EDT (Score:3, Informative)

    by Doofus (43075) on Sunday May 25 2008, @09:05PM (#23540125)
    http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/images.php?gID=313&cID=7 [arizona.edu]

  • Pictures Already (Score:3, Informative)

    by GreggBz (777373) on Sunday May 25 2008, @09:13PM (#23540177) Homepage
    Within minutes of the first downlink, pictures were available on the net.

    one [arizona.edu]
    two [arizona.edu]
    three [arizona.edu]

    That's fantastic.

      • Re:Pictures Already (Score:5, Informative)

        by doubletruncation (939847) on Sunday May 25 2008, @10:40PM (#23540655)
        Like many scientific imagers, the camera on phoenix (called the surface stereo imager http://fawkes3.lpl.arizona.edu/science_ssi.php [arizona.edu] ) uses a filter wheel in front of a CCD. They have 12 filters picked specifically for geological and atmospheric interest. Presumably three of the filters roughly correspond to red, green and blue, so they can take an image through each filter and then composite them into a single color image. I assume they've just been posting the raw images taken through a given filter first and will composite them once they've got a set in. Note that your digital camera works in a similar way (takes images through three filters and composites them, it may place a permanent color filter array in front of the CCD, or use three separate CCDs and a beam splitter rather than using a spinning filter wheel), except it does the compositing automatically. Since the imager on phoenix will not be used exclusively for making RGB color images, there's no reason to have the camera automatically take images through those three filters and do the compositing. Also, it looks like many of the images they've taken first are of the solar arrays - I imagine they wanted to take quick single filter images of each array and send them back first over their limited bandwidth to see that they really deployed, before taking and transmitting a color panorama.

  • NASA web site (Score:4, Interesting)

    by KC1P (907742) on Sunday May 25 2008, @09:29PM (#23540283) Homepage
    I wish NASA wouldn't get so distracted during the "fun" part of these missions. It seems like a regular pattern, they set up frankly a pretty awesome web site, put up a countdown timer, plaster it with nice background articles and then update it very regularly ... until something happens. Then it's frozen in time for an hour or two (this time all they could come up with was "we got a signal") while they're all slapping each other five and pouring champagne into their consoles. The $420 million (or whatever it was) came out of our pockets, all I ask is that they get *one* intern to stay sober at the golden moment and clue in those of us who don't get the Science Channel.

    Anyway it's great to see they pulled it off. It's weird how so many space shots worked on the first try and then we totally blew the next half-dozen tries. I blame the Martian strategic defense system.

    • Re:NASA web site (Score:4, Insightful)

      by AMuse (121806) <<moc.sufoof> <ta> <esuma-todhsals>> on Sunday May 25 2008, @10:23PM (#23540561) Homepage
      In their defense, I would guess that the moment the thing lands they're busy checking the instrumentation to make sure nothing got damaged, setting up instructions for what the lander is to DO now, informing superiors/science groups/engineering teams/etc and basically... doing their jobs.

      I'm pretty sure it's not champagne parties for 2 hours before someone says "Hey, lets update the website guys!"

  • Mars bar (Score:5, Funny)

    by personalo (1272724) on Sunday May 25 2008, @09:36PM (#23540317) Homepage
    The best thing they could possibly find would be a mars bar. It would be too funny if some NASA guy threw one in so that it would pop out on landing.

    • Re:The Hell? (Score:4, Informative)

      by AMuse (121806) <<moc.sufoof> <ta> <esuma-todhsals>> on Sunday May 25 2008, @10:28PM (#23540595) Homepage
      From the blog: "They're black and white pictures meant primarily to tell whether our deployments successfully occurred."

      Color pictures in high-res take a lot longer to download over a very slow radio link (Latency to mars is 20 - 40 minutes).

      Black and white photos are the "test" set because you'll get them down quicker.

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