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Fable 2 Follow Up a "Significant Scientific Achievement"?

Posted by ScuttleMonkey on Tue May 20, 2008 04:50 PM
from the points-for-enthusiasm dept.
Science Entertainment Games
In a bold statement, game developer Peter Molyneux is claiming that his new Fable 2 follow up is a "significant scientific achievement". His unbridled excitement stems from years of work on AI, simulation, and character interaction. "Fortunately for fans of Molyneux-style hyperbole, the man is back with wide-eyed, reins-off enthusiasm of his own future work. [...] In Molyneux's own words, 'I think it's such a significant scientific achievement that it will be on the cover of Wired.'"
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  • There, fixed it for you (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 20 2008, @04:50PM (#23483182)
    In an exaggerated statement, game developer Peter Molyneux is boasting that his new Fable 2 follow up is a "minor software engineering footnote". His unbridled excitement stems from years of work on computer game applied AI, simulation, and fantasy character interaction.

    There, fixed it for you.

    'I think it's such a significant scientific achievement that it will be on the cover of Wired.'
    Yes, Wired.

    Someone just said that major scientific achievements make the cover of Wired. Not Nature, not Science, not Physical Review Letters. Wired.

    *cough* *cough*

    No offense Mr Molyneux but it would probably be better to get your major scientific achievement on the cover of UFO Magazine. More "major scientific achievements" have died after making the cover of Wired than almost any other hipster magazine. At least with UFO Magazine you will still have some believers in 10 years.
    • There's no way I'm going to read the article, but I suspect the quote in the summary is bang on. I have no trouble believing that Fable 2's scientific significance is very much compatible with being on the cover of Wired. Or PC Gamer, for that matter.

      • I had herd so much about the AI in Fable, but realy once you hit that magic evil mark all everone dose is run screaming, did they realy think that everyone who met Saddam or Hitler just ran away screaming?
        • Game AI seems to have that problem. Civilization has always annoyed me in that as soon as you become the dominant power everyone converts to fundamentalism, tries to extort money out of you, then declares war on you. Then there's nothing left to do but nuke them into the stone age, then drive tanks over what's left.
    • If the man was really a scientist, he would promise a cure for cancer. What you would get is a pushed back release and a pill that sells on media hype alone.

      Of course you would fork over $80 for it, and it would be a enjoyable experience. But at the end of the day, your cancer would be unquenched, and you would hate him for getting your hopes up. You hate him so much, you call him the Uwe Boll of video games.

      • Whoa now. Don't go that far. At least Molyneux has a few good games under his belt (Populous, Dungeon Keeper, and Fable). And, so what, most of his games have a pretty central theme (generally you can always be a bad guy). Uwe Boll? He's got nothing. I'm sure there is a 'middle ground' insult? May we not call him "Michael Bay"? Functional movies that are never really good or bad. Sure, some of them sell like hot-cakes, but in actuality, no one really knows why...
    • Heh.. that's pretty much what I was thinking. Remember when the original Fable was supposed to be a game where every choice made a difference? If you planted a seed when young, there'd be a tree there later in the game when you were older? If you got cut as a kid, there'd be a scar? It was going to be interactive and open-ended, and span the life of the main character?

      And then remember when we got an 8-hour, incredibly linear walk-along-the-path-so-you-can-get-to-the-next-town-where-there-are-maybe-10-in

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Moraelin (679338)

        I don't know if it's going to be a scientific achievement, but if it's a Molyneux game, it will probably suck. But it's going to have REALLY nice graphics!

        Actually, Fable was a very nice, if too short, game. Still, it was great fun.

        That said, the guy does brag way too much, and there is a chance that this kind of self-hype will sink any game, no matter how good. For example a lot of B&W's flaws would have been easier to swallow, if it hadn't been for the hype promising the moon and the stars and everyth

  • I'll still play it (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Uncle Focker (1277658) on Tuesday May 20 2008, @05:01PM (#23483364)
    It won't be what he's boasting but I'll play it and probably enjoy it. If they can deliver even half of what they claim, then I'll be satisfied.
  • So is he talking about Fable 2 (the follow-up to Fable) being the achievement, or the eventual follow-up to Fable 2?

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Serzen (675979)
      The kotaku article links to a Wired article which states that the follow up to Fable 2--a game he "can't talk about right now"--is the achievement in question. For those interested enough, the interview also has a couple of interesting lines about the bug-testing in Fable 2 (trying to get the AI tuned) and also the morality system (shades of grey, not just black and white--no pun intended).

  • hahaha (Score:5, Insightful)

    by deathtopaulw (1032050) on Tuesday May 20 2008, @05:06PM (#23483438) Homepage
    Am I the only one who loves Peter Molyneux and his crazy claims about his upcoming works?
    It's funny every time, also it's fun to let the imagination run wild a bit... the problem is in the fans taking it to heart so strongly.

  • Significance? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by JustinOpinion (1246824) on Tuesday May 20 2008, @05:16PM (#23483558)

    I think it's such a significant scientific achievement that it will be on the cover of Wired.
    Not to be a jerk, but truly "significant scientific achievements" end up on the cover of Science Magazine or Nature Magazine, not Wired.

    Getting on the cover of Wired is more of a significant marketing achievement.

    More seriously, if this is actually a scientific advance, then it would be published in peer-reviewed journals, scrutinized by the community, and (if worthy) built upon by others. It isn't really science if you keep the secrets of your techniques locked up, and don't allow others to see/understand what you're doing. And it's certainly not a "significant achievement" if all you're doing is using the same techniques that are well-established in the field. Grandiose claims of novelty need correspondingly rigorous evidence.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by WDot (1286728)
      Peter Molyneux is infamous for promising gamers the moon. Fable 2 will likely be fun, but take everything P. Molyneux here says with a grain of salt. He said similarly boastful things with Fable... and pretty much every other game he's ever had a hand in.
      • To be fair, he's delivered, and strongly, many more times than he's not. Populous, Syndicate, Dungeon Keeper... ...although the "scientific achievement" bit is a little weird.
      • Uhm...sorry to break this to you, but you're wrong. Nature is a very well-respected publication for biological sciences; it's where Watson and Crick first published their work on DNA.

  • Wow, the cover of Wired! (Score:5, Funny)

    by hobb0001 (989441) on Tuesday May 20 2008, @05:28PM (#23483762)
    I tell you, there's no greater reward for scientific achievement than to be put on the cover of Wired.

    ...and in related news, Mozart still laments having never made the cover of Rolling Stone.

  • Promises, promises (Score:4, Informative)

    by Zerth (26112) on Tuesday May 20 2008, @05:33PM (#23483850) Homepage
    While I liked Black & White, Mr. Molyneux has been a windbag since Bullfrog. Always hype, hype, hype, disappointment with him. Most of his recent games would be decent to fairly good if only he would shut the hell up before release.

    Wish he'd make another Dungeon Keeper.
    • EA lost money for the first time EVER and clobbered all its PC projects.

      Read more here: http://pcgtw.retro-net.de/index.php?id=games:keeper3 [retro-net.de]

    • Black & White almost had scientific merit for its AI system, but from a gameplay perspective, it was laden with problems. Two stood out the most. One, the campaign became boring and extremely repetitive, involving casting the same spells dozens or hundreds of times to meet the scenario objectives, all without the help of your creature. And two, the method of training your creature was an extremely non-intuitive "reward/punish your pet before it acts, rather than after" that was woefully lacking in fe
    • I hear he is working on a colibaration [wikipedia.org]
      • > I still yearn to play Dungeon Keeper on occasion.

        Me too, but the damn game simply doesn't run on XP. You can increase the time it takes til it crashes from nearly instantaneous to getting in maybe 10 minutes of play if you use only software rendering and turn off QSound. Which really takes away a good chunk of what made it so good. And just to add insult to injury, the funny movies between dungeons don't even play.

        Black and White was *really* good for the first few levels, and then it completely fal

        • Black and White was *really* good for the first few levels, and then it completely falls apart.

          Black and White had a good idea, but pretty shitty execution. It wasn't good even for the first few levels, it was simply new.

          Still, who can forget the sailors: "Eye-del-eye-del-eeeeeee, Eye-del-eye-del-eeeeeee ... we simply can't leave til we get some more wood."

          While they were surrounded by forest on all sides except the sea. That, I believe, was the moment where the game came closest to the authentic g

        • For what it's worth, Dungeon Keeper II still plays on XP just fine. You can't alt-tab, though, which sucks.
        • Not sure about Dungeon Keeper, but Dungeon Keeper 2 plays fine on my XP gaming rig.

  • I want to follow him around. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Zaphod-AVA (471116) on Tuesday May 20 2008, @05:45PM (#23484032)
    I want to follow him around and periodically shout "Try to get your combat multiplier *even higher*! Until the cops drag me away.
    • you made me laugh so hard, coffee came out my nose.

      I think we should get him on a Takeshi's Castle style game show and make him chase chickens. While heckling him in bad faux British accents.
    • "Ah! There is an important quest card for you at the Guild!"

      Yeah, thanks, mind if I rescue my mom from the evil prison first???

      I beat the shit out of that old guy every chance I got. And he was invulnerable, which meant I could just hammer away on him until I got it out of my system. I sent lightning bolts right up his ass whenever I visited the Guild.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by steveo777 (183629)
        Yeah, the easy way to do that? IIRC you simply equip the stick that you start the game with and go to town on things. Or just the weakest weapon you can find.

  • Gadzooks (Score:3, Funny)

    by ludomancer (921940) on Tuesday May 20 2008, @06:17PM (#23484534)
    "In a bold statement, game developer Peter Molyneux..."

    I honestly didn't make it past that part.

  • I love what Peter has done for us over the years, but he needs to learn the difference between science and engineering. Whatever this will be, it won't be a scientific achievement.

    Also, as game AI is mostly smoke and mirrors, it probably won't be a major engineering achievement either.

    A major entertainment achievement, possibly.

  • I made the mistake of listening to the crap he spewed for the original installment of Fable. The released game was pretty enjoyable, but it was not the same game that he was talking about. So I don't know if he ever actually plays the games he leads or spits out ideas and expects them to be implemented. But I refuse to read about anything he's making until it's already released. And I'll stick to reviews by anyone but Molyneux.

  • So if the pattern holds true... (Score:3, Informative)

    by analog_line (465182) on Tuesday May 20 2008, @07:37PM (#23485646)
    1. Molyneux hypes the hell out of $game_X
    2. Delivered product turns out to be nothing like the hype.
    3. Expansion released to attempt to mollify angry fans.
    4. Pick up $game_X plus expansion for 1/5th-1/10th of its original retail value a couple years later, and at that price it turns out to be not that bad at all.

  • Deja Vu (Score:5, Interesting)

    by xplenumx (703804) on Tuesday May 20 2008, @11:22PM (#23487740)
    I seem to remember Mr. Molyneux promising the world four years ago as well.

    A message from Peter Molyneux.
    There is something I have to say. And I have to say it because I love making games. When a game is in development, myself and the development teams I work with constantly encourage each other to think of the best features and the most ground-breaking design possible.

    However, what happens is that we strive to include absolutely everything we've ever dreamt of and, in my enthusiasm, I talk about it to anyone who'll listen, mainly in press interviews. When I tell people about what we're planning, I'm telling the truth, and people, of course, expect to see all the features I've mentioned. And when some of the most ambitious ideas get altered, redesigned or even dropped, people rightly want to know what happened to them.

    If I have mentioned any feature in the past which, for whatever reason, didn't make it as I described into Fable, I apologise. Every feature I have ever talked about WAS in development, but not all made it. Often the reason is that the feature did not make sense. For example, three years ago I talked about trees growing as time past. The team did code this but it took so much processor time (15%) that the feature was not worth leaving in. That 15 % was much better spent on effects and combat. So nothing I said was groundless hype, but people expecting specific features which couldn't be included were of course disappointed. If that's you, I apologise. All I can say is that Fable is the best game we could possibly make, and that people really seem to love it.

    I have come to realise that I should not talk about features too early so I am considering not talking about games as early as I do. This will mean that the Lionhead games will not be known about as early as they are, but I think this is the more industry standard.

    Our job as the Lionhead family of studios is to be as ambitious as we possibly can. But although we jump up and down in glee about the fabulous concepts and features we're working on, I will not mention them to the outside world until we've implemented and tested them, and they are a reality.

    Thank you for reading.

    Peter.

    Source: http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/10/01/1651219 [slashdot.org]

    I'll believe it when I see it. I wish you the best of luck Mr. Molyneux.

  • Fable 1 introduce the concept of the hero falling into a time vortex where you can start the game in a 'normal' family, but end up a hundred years older than your mother, and almost have to chase the final anti-hero round in a zimmer frame..
    I wonder what Fable 2 is going to be, some further delving into the theory of Imaginary Time where a new breakthrough in theory is implemented into the game as a demonstration?
  • Lionhead have managed to disprove the old adage that you can't fool people twice.

  • Peasants... (Score:3, Funny)

    by FishAdmin (1288708) on Wednesday May 21 2008, @07:06AM (#23490746)
    I just hope the peasants don't all sound like rejects from "My Fair Lady" this time. I hated that the only woman you could marry that DIDN'T have an obnoxious accent was the Mayor. Not easy when you're trying to do the "all good" type run-through. "Oh! You really ARE an 'ero!" *shudder* And yet, all the prostitutes sounded educated. Hmm...
  • EXTRA! EXTRA! DNA test confirms Derek Smart and Peter Molyneux are related! EXTRA! EXTRA! Read all about it!

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by vertinox (846076)
      Why does anyone bother to report Molyneux's hype?

      Well because some of us have extreme nostalgia for Populous, Powermonger, and of course the holy grail called 'Syndicate'.

      Way back in the early 90s, back when I first got Syndicate to run on my 486 with 4mb of ram with the right boot disk configuration I was floored and once I figured out how to get it to play with sound I was really into the whole game for several hundred (if not thousand) hours of my life.

      Sadly, I never played Dungeon Master for some odd re
      • Populous and Dungeon Keeper were fantastic, but I wish I had played Syndicate back in the day. Black & White was such a disappointment that I never bothered to try Fable.

      • To be fair, the best comparison of Molyneux is George Lucas who as we all know made 3 amazing movies and then made some mediocre sequels.
        Correction, 6 great movies. I assume you are referring to STAR WARS. The Indiana Jones trilogy was pretty awesome as well. Everything after the last IJ has been the ruin of the Lucas reputation.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Gorath99 (746654)

        Don't forget Magic Carpet [wikipedia.org]. That game was bloody amazing!

        Imagine this: it's just a year after the original Doom was released with its (for the time) amazing 2.5D game engine. Now this other game comes along that has dynamically lighted, fully morphable terrain. It has dynamic music that changes when the player enters a fight, reflections in the water, distance fog, transparency, a particle system, mouse controls, 8 player multiplayer, support for VR headsets, and, get this, it even had a red-green Stereogr [wikipedia.org]

      • Mod the parent up please. Syndicate was fscking awesome. Probably my all-time favorite game. Syndicate Wars was a fairly lackluster follow-up.

        Fable was pretty good, one of the best RPGs of it's era. But it was overshadowed by KOTOR.

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