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Surgeons Weld Wounds Shut With Surgical Laser

Posted by samzenpus on Thu Nov 27, 2008 03:36 AM
from the amazing-laser dept.
Ruach writes "The promise of medical lasers goes beyond clean incisions and eye surgery: Many believe that lasers should be used not just to create wounds but to mend them too. Abraham Katzir, a physicist at Tel Aviv University, has a system that may just do the trick and is proving successful in its first human trials."
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  • by Michael_gr (1066324) on Thursday November 27 2008, @03:41AM (#25907125)
    Now that is a surprise. That always struck me as funny, the way they just beamed at some wound and it closed.
    • What kind of rod does one use for that weld?

      • by trburkholder (307597) on Thursday November 27 2008, @06:50AM (#25907767) Homepage

        From TFA:

        "All a surgeon has to do is move the pen's tip along the cut, strengthening and sealing the weld with a solder of water-soluble protein."

        It looks a lot like very controlled cooking and I suspect the protein used to connect the tissue denatures in the process. It's not welding, it's hot-melt glue.

        Still very cool.

        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          hmm isn't that a modern way of the old heat a knife over a fire then burn the wound closed with the side of it like on movies?
          • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

            I would imagine it's much less painful and leaves less of a scar.
          • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

            hmm isn't that a modern way of the old heat a knife over a fire then burn the wound closed with the side of it like on movies?

            I think the modern version of that would be using superglue. Both effective but fairly brutal & 'last resort'.

            • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

              Actually, superglue is quite effective at closing skin (though large wounds still need to have the deep layers closed). The monomers used are designed not to produce as much heat during curing as the home-use ones, but they're still cyanoacrylate adhesives.
    • "Imagine that sort of device in the hands of your unscrupulous friends. They would sneak up behind you and seal your ass shut as a practical joke. The devices would be sold in novelty stores instead of medical outlets."

      - Why real life will never be like star trek, The Dilbert Future, by Scott Adams

        • What if... (Score:5, Funny)

          by denzacar (181829) on Thursday November 27 2008, @05:39AM (#25907543)

          ...they had lasers on the INSIDE beaming out when ever their flesh is pierced? You know, like having lasers in the blood.
          How come Marvel didn't yet come up with such an awesome character?
          Would such a combination make the character some kind of a weird Wolverine-Cyclops hybrid?
          What would Jean Grey think about that?

  • The real news (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 27 2008, @03:43AM (#25907135)

    As usual, the summary misses the interesting bit. Using lasers to seal wounds is old news - I first read about it in the Readers Digest about a decade ago. What's new here is a mechanism to prevent overheating.

    • This shit needs to make it to battlefield medics sooner than later.

      • The shit in question was probably developed with the battlefield in mind in the first place. Just like Superglue, which was developed so seal off wounds of injured soldiers.

        • Re:The real news (Score:4, Interesting)

          by davester666 (731373) on Thursday November 27 2008, @05:25AM (#25907505) Journal

          Cuz that's what medics want to carry. A large battery pack with a small laser, while humping a guy back to the aid station. Or maybe a gas generator.

          Hell, it could be dual use. As a weapon, it can blind enemy combatants or slice open their skin, but when the enemy gets closer, you bend over a wounded comrade and claim to be a medic, and that it's your laser scalpel/magical healing device.

        • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

          Hmm... conflict is an essential part of evolution. Ending wars is a nice dream... But in reality, it's just nice for the oppressor. Because no wars always means, that something/someone is extremely predominant. Those who think otherwise will normally fight for their way. If they can't, it's because of a horribly strong oppression.

          The illusion, that we can do without conflicts (which sometimes end in wars), comes from the illusion that there is one global truth, when in reality, everything is relative.
          So in

          • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

            yerch, and here come the isolationist libertarians, trotting out their ideology as if they've realised some perfect universal order that no one else gets.

            First, the word "evolution" is a very bad one to use as a justification, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you meant something more akin to "progress".

            The illusion, that we can do without conflicts (which sometimes end in wars), comes from the illusion that there is one global truth, when in reality, everything is relative.

            And just unde

          • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

            > Hmm... conflict is an essential part of evolution.

            Maybe, but war isn't. Many bacteria and plants and herbivores happily live their lives without ever being at risk of being killed by their own kind. A 'war' against others of your kind is something very few species do (I guess ants can be considered an exception).
            Let's not use 'evolution' as an excuse for war. Even if war was part of evolution, the whole thing that defines us humans is that we can mostly ignore what would happen in nature.

            > The illus

          • Re: (Score:2, Offtopic)

            we have no right so tell them what to do

            The hell we do. Philosophers have been arguing the point for ages, but at the end of the day I do believe there are such things as absolute morals. I do not believe such morals should arise from such arbitrary things as the haphazard religious writings that float around this planet, but rather should be based on common sense and deliberate thought.

            A society which thinks it's perfectly OK to rape anyone in sight and then eats them blatantly violates everything that was ever said about human rights pretty muc

        • The important thing is that we can actually figure out how to deploy this laser technology on the battlefield without the cooperation of those who desire to use violence to satisfy their desires. How do you propose getting those who desire violence to cooperate in ending wars?
    • Re:The real news (Score:5, Interesting)

      You are right on that. My sister was doing laser cellular reconstructive surgery ( Transoral Laser Microsurgery ) 12 years ago with a Neodymium Yttrium Arsenic Garnet ( Nd YAG ) 100 watt continuous laser. Here is a link to that laser created in 1964. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nd-YAG_laser [wikipedia.org]. I would have RTFA, but it was slashdotted already. I still think if a shark did it, that would be news.
  • by cjfs (1253208) on Thursday November 27 2008, @03:49AM (#25907163) Homepage Journal

    First, they had to determine the optimal temperature at which flesh melts but can still heal (about 65 degrees Celsius).

    I don't envy the test subjects.

    • Oh, don't worry they didn't start by decreasing by one degree on someone counting down from 500 Celsius. They started at 425. It cooks french fries quite well. The article doesn't mention the use of anesthetic or painkillers.

      So yeah, being a test subject would suck! But, you probably get $20 for your time. And a 'consult' with a doctor.

      • In Israel?

        • I'll have you know that I've bought and eaten some of the most splendid ham, pork chops and ribs I have tasted to date in Israel. The Wadi in Haifa has a lot of Christian Arabs that sell outrageously good meat, including pork. Alright, I do have a spot of trouble sourcing real raw bacon, because the climate here causes butchers to only sell the stuff smoked or cured, but that's besides the point.

          Furthermore the national supermarket chain "Tiv Tam" (for Russians by Russians) has pork, albeit of inferior qual

  • ... the false Laser will take it from you.
  • by Splab (574204) on Thursday November 27 2008, @04:01AM (#25907211)

    sharks with friggin lasers on their heads?

    I mean the poor thing is going to keep biting and not understand why the pray wont die.

  • The whole point. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Surreal Puppet (1408635) on Thursday November 27 2008, @04:11AM (#25907251) Journal

    The whole point of this new method is that you can cauterize a wound without charring the flesh, instead just melting it. The optimal temperature for this is, apparently, 60-70 deg. C., and this is maintained using feedback from an infrared sensor on the "soldering pen". They apparently also use a water soluble protein as "solder". The scars on in the TFA pictures look real nice. Wonder if the wound will hurt more or less than a conventionally sealed wound?

  • Wouldn't this leave some rather ugly scars?

    A clean cut can heal in a way that has minimal impact. When you melt flesh you're doing lasting, siginificant changes that doesn't really heal. You'll change a thin white line that fades with a tan to a large pink splotch on the skin that won't really ever go away.

      • The photo evidence they show isn't convincing on that front. The wound on the top is still healing and tender but the wound on the bottom is mostly healed but with that ugly crater.

        You'll have to forgive me for not reading through every single comment...

  • by tzot (834456) <MZZTBBXFCYAI@spammotel.com> on Thursday November 27 2008, @05:00AM (#25907435) Homepage
    Breasts, I mean. This is going to be heavily used to close incisions of breast augmentation surgery. We shall lose a weapon in our arsenal of 'true-fake' wars.
    We are doomed.
    • Now, now. However tiny scars may get, fakes are still fairly easy to spot. The bigger they are, the easier it is to spot them.
      Talk about Captian Obvious.

    • Come on now! You can easily feel whether they are man-made or not, and if that fails you can still ascertain it by looking at the degree to which they wiggle (or not) during a shag.

      Besides... who cares, really? If it pleases you it pleases you.

  • by ZeroExistenZ (721849) on Thursday November 27 2008, @07:19AM (#25907897)

    they had to determine the optimal temperature at which flesh melts but can still heal (about 65 degrees Celsius)

    Firstly, 65C, isn't that the just above the heat of a warm bath, and doesn't a sauna reach up to 110C ? Second, since when does a skin melt?

    Who can give some more indepth information about this?

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      Have you ever burnt yourself on the stove or something? Then you'd know that skin melts.

      65C is way, way, waaaaay above the temperature you'd want in a warm bath and while the air temperature is 110C in a sauna your skin never reaches that temperature, if you stayed in the sauna long enough your skin would melt though(I think you'd die first)

    • by Dunbal (464142) on Thursday November 27 2008, @09:11AM (#25908363)

      Second, since when does a skin melt?

            Skin isn't just the rigid layer of dead cells covered in keratin that you're used to seeing. Lots of interesting things happen under the basement membrane [wikipedia.org] in the "extra-cellular matrix". Cells aren't just glued to each other but rather they produce and surround themselves with different proteins - some for rigidity and others to allow flexibility and elasticity.

            This matrix becomes more fluid at higher temperatures as the proteins unwind and change shape with the heat. The theory is that if you have two pieces of matrix close enough to each other and increase the temperature, some of the proteins from either side of the wound will entangle with the opposite side, and remain entangled when the temperature is lowered again, kind of like velcro on a molecular level. The trick is to provide just enough temperature to get the proteins to entangle with each other, without putting so much temperature that they end up destroyed.

            Anyway surgeons have known about cauterization for a long time. It helps fix all those little mistakes (oops who put that artery there...). There's nothing more fun than watching a bleeder turn into a brown and black bubbling mess of protein goo - but goo that no longer bleeds.

            It would be interesting to know how this "new" technique holds up under different conditions - sepsis, metabolic disorders like diabetes, etc. And of course how much trouble is the patient in if ever there's a dehiscence [wikipedia.org]? At least with sutures, the other sutures are there to keep the wound reasonably closed...

  • Great way (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Dunbal (464142) on Thursday November 27 2008, @08:52AM (#25908271)

    To instantly send the cost of that $7500 surgery to $15,000. After all, SOMEONE has to finance, maintain and insure that $300,000 laser machine because a $2 package of 3-0 nylon monofilament just won't do nowadays. Hey do we still have the machine that goes "bing" [youtube.com]?

      • Re:Great way (Score:4, Informative)

        by Dunbal (464142) on Thursday November 27 2008, @03:04PM (#25910749)

        Nothing is anywhere near as cheap as $2.

              It is when I buy it for my clinic. Syringes, 15, I sell them to you for $1.50. Suture, around $1.75 each pack last time I bought, and I sell them to you for $15. That's what happens when I have to pay between $20k and $60k a year (depending on the specialty and how many times I have been sued) in malpractice insurance premiums before covering other, simpler costs like "rent". You can thank the "jackpot justice" players and ambulance chasing lawyers for that.

              Oh, I guess you could buy your own sutures for $1.75 but no, "This item is restricted for sale only to or by order of a physician". Sorry.

              Of course be careful at hospitals, they sometimes rip you off in illegal ways, like charging you for a whole box of medication when all they gave you was one pill. Always check your bill. I do.

  • by synthespian (563437) on Thursday November 27 2008, @09:46PM (#25912875)

    Gladly, they mentioned the inventor Abraham Katzir (a physicist at Tel Aviv University).

    All too often, it''s the surgeon who gets all the credit when, in fact, all this wonderful medical technology is created by engineers and whole team - a lot more people than the guys who like to pose as heroes.

    • Israel gets an obscene amount of investment from the US. You pour vast sums of money into research labs, you get a lot of inventions and ideas.

      It has nothing to do with religion

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        That's actually a common misconception.

        US foreign aid to Israel is limited to commodities purchased back from US companies: Israel cannot spend that money in any other way.

        The money goes back to US companies like Boeing or Lockheed martin when Israel purchases fighter jets.

        You can rest assured, that university research projects in Israel don't see a dime from US tax payer money. (Unless it's some US D.O.D joint effort)

        • Nope they just have a lot of money that they would've otherwise spent on those things to spend on research instead
          • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

            The foreign aid to Israel is given out since the US recognizes the strategic importance of Israel in the middle east - it is vital to promote US interests in the area.

            And yes, the game is played both ways. Both US and Israel gain from the foreign aid - i just don't want people to think that the US is spending money in Israel without gaining anything from it. The US is not a philanthropic organization and Joe six pack is definitely not funding the Jews because they tricked him into it.

            • Honest question, what does the US gain from the money it gives to Israel? Is that gain cancelled out by the negative views of the US throughout region as a result?

              • Re: (Score:2, Offtopic)

                The US gets to stop an country getting annihilated, that shares similar values and willing to get its hands dirty (at the expense of political backlash). And no, the gains are not canceled out as the people that hate Israel are not the sort of people that ever would not hate the United States.

                I've got a great story after talking with a girl who fled Iran after her family was persecuted for not being Islamic (belonged to some weird minor regional religion). Though it's an anecdote, I've come to believe the
                • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

                  First of all, plenty of Christians have killed and will kill a non-believer. It's documented well, and countless times.

                  Funnily enough 10% of Jews in Israel *will* also stone your ass if you drive through a particular street on a Shabat, if you happen be Palestinian and live near certain settlers and if you dare to drive/eat/smoke in their vicinity on a Yom Kippur.

                  Believe me. I live here. The latter example actually took place in Akko recently. An Arab drove through Akko (which is an Arabic city), ended up o

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        You can hate and love something at the same time, for different reasons.

        Yes, that pretty much defines "marriage", I think.

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Cauterizing lasers, for the conscientious shark.

    • by myxiplx (906307) on Thursday November 27 2008, @04:23AM (#25907289)

      No, TFA shows two sample pictures, and TFA didn't do any comparison at all, especially not any based on these particular pictures. The *doctors* compared wounds on ten patients and decided that the laser-bonded scars were healing better, which is what the article reports.

      The point of the pictures isn't so *you* can second guess the doctors (who believe it or not know an awful lot more about this than you do). They are there to give a quick visual impression of what's going on, to complement the real detail contained in the text of the article.

      If you really want to double check the results, go find the original research paper. However I think you'll find it's rather longer and not quite so interesting to read.