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Cassini Could Find Signs of Life on Enceladus

Posted by kdawson on Mon Nov 03, 2008 04:56 PM
from the buddy-can-you-spare-some-methane dept.
Space Science
New Scientist reviews the possibility that the Cassini probe might be repurposed to look for signs of life on Saturn's enigmatic moon Enceladus. "[Enceladus' water vapor] plume's origin is still being debated, but some models suggest the moon holds an ocean of liquid water beneath its surface. This ocean could be a potential habitat for extraterrestrial life. ... Though the probe was never designed to look for life, it could do so by studying organic chemicals such as methane in the plume, the team says."
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  • With all the weird things we find on Earth, I wonder what could be in that water?

    • I would not be surprised to find single celled life to be rather common given liquid water environments, a source of energy, and organic molecules. I'll be surprised when (if) anyone finds any complex life forms in our lifetime. I fully expect to live long enough to find evidence of current or former single celled life elsewhere in our Solar System.

      • Re:Just imagine what could be there (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Ethanol-fueled (1125189) * on Monday November 03 2008, @05:14PM (#25618779) Homepage
        Cells? Hell, I'd be happy with the discovery of precursors to amino acids and proteins. we have a lot to learn about how environments effect change as well as which envronments can and cannot spawn life.

        When people hypothesize about life forming on earth, they mention catalysts such as lightning strikes or volcanoes jump-starting chemical reactions. Not a far stretch of imagination given the thermophilic and cryophilic bacteria here on earth. Unfortunately, I don't think we should expect to find anything profound until we can load ourselves into a rocket, go there ourselves, and hope that we can return and analyze our samples without contaminating them.

        • Re:Just imagine what could be there (Score:4, Insightful)

          by dreamchaser (49529) on Monday November 03 2008, @05:32PM (#25618995) Homepage Journal

          Precursors? They've already determined that complete amino acids can be found on carbonaceous asteroids. It's actually *easy* to make amino acids; the mystery is how amino and nucleic acids came together to form what we call life. My guess is given the right environment (liquid water, ingredients, and a source of energy) and enough time 'life' forms under a variety of other variables.

          • Re:Just imagine what could be there (Score:5, Interesting)

            by Gat0r30y (957941) on Monday November 03 2008, @05:52PM (#25619227) Homepage Journal
            The problem here is that right now we only have the one data point for the formation of life (our lonely blue marble). So we really haven't got a good idea of what is suitable for the formation of life, and so far our approach has been to assume that it must be pretty darn close to what we have here.

            • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

              by sznupi (719324)

              Problem is even bigger - our only data point shows us the place FEW BILLION YEARS after formation of first life here; which greatly affected the environment (presence of free oxygen, carbon cycle in the atmosphere regulating global climate, and so on...).

              Therefore, contrary to what you say in your last sentence, we can't assume at all that what is suitable for the formation of life is close to what we have here...simply because conditions on early Earth, when life formed, were so vastly different (and we're

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Smauler (915644)

        Don't assume life will automatically exist where there is water and light. Just because the conditions for life are there, doesn't mean it's not a massive improbability that it starts. If the start of life was easy, we would have replicated it centuries ago. Personally, I would be very suprised if we see life in our solar system (apart from Earth). I do still hope to be suprised though... but not by a face consuming alien killer virus, obviously.

        • Re:Just imagine what could be there (Score:4, Insightful)

          by Fluffeh (1273756) on Monday November 03 2008, @07:05PM (#25620047)
          Not to totally go in the face of your post, but to counter your "massive improbability" comment. Yes, it's totally a massive improbability that life starts easily. However, what life has on it's side is TIME. Enceladus has been happily circling it's planet for millions of years. Sure, it's improbably that life was created there in the first minute. It's also improbably that just the right mix of ingredients was there the next minute - but the odds get better and better with every following minute that the right bunch of ingredients came along and life popped into existence from the precursors that were in the water. Given millions and millions of years, I would say that the chances don't look like a massive improbability, but more along the lines of a massive probability that at some point the right mix of things came together and made life of some sort. I would go so far as to say that I think it would be a massive improbability that the universe isn't simply teeming with life of all sorts.

        • Re:Just imagine what could be there (Score:4, Interesting)

          by MightyMartian (840721) on Monday November 03 2008, @07:21PM (#25620233) Journal

          It's difficult to say whether it's improbable or not. We know that some pretty damned neat chemistry can take place where you have liquid water, complex organic compounds and a good source of energy. There are a number of bodies in the solar system that now appear to have at least the water and energy, and finding amino acids and other organic compounds in cometary bodies is a pretty good indicator that places like Enceladus and Europa probably have their fair share as well. The real difficulty is these worlds have really thick layers of ice, so getting a sample of what's in the oceans beneath would be a trick.

    • With all the weird things we find on Earth, I wonder what could be in that water?

      One of the most poignant scenes in all of science fiction is the encounter between crashed astronauts and life on Europa in Arthur C. Clarke's 2010: Odyssey Two [amazon.com] . Even though Clarke's powers as a novelist were failing even then, he gave an impressive vision of a possible Europan lifeform, something very unlike anything in our experience, though we could use basic metaphors like "trees". I wish I could find more science fictio

      • I believe the 'wolves' you mention were a bit more interesting than that - each person actually consisted of a pack of 3-6? creatures, communicating among themselves via an ultrasonic network. A single 'wolf' was not very smart, but in their networks they formed a cohesive intelligent 'being'. Of course on top of that they had a pretty un-alien society, but I thought the pack+network=person idea was pretty neat.

        (If you're not talking about "A Fire in the Deep", ignore this - also I hereby disclaim that my

        • The Tines' group consciousness was indeed interesting. But not the shape of their bodies, which just happened to look terrestial, nor their behaviour with things like laughter and James Bond village-like smugness. Each Tine personality was basically a stock human character. The pigs were the Tines' enemies, whom Woodcarvers forces met on their way north.
    • Maybe we'll find the Intelligent Designer with a supercomputer designing life on earth. All that vapor must come from water-cooling the circuits

    • With all the weird things we find on Earth, I wonder what could be in that water?

      It's a moon, so obviously... WHALES!!!

      Everybody sing: "we're whalers on the moon..."

    • With all the weird things we find on Earth, I wonder what could be in that water?

      Trash? Wrappers?

    • Re:Just imagine what could be there (Score:4, Funny)

      by dotancohen (1015143) on Monday November 03 2008, @05:43PM (#25619127) Homepage

      With all the weird things we find on Earth, I wonder what could be in that water?

      Don't drink it.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by CRCulver (715279)

        At -175C on the outer rings, its got to be even colder on the surface. If at all there is water on the surface, its frozen solid for gazillion years.

        Unless there is still geological activity beneath the surface, as there possibly is on several moons.

      • Re:Just imagine what could be there (Score:5, Informative)

        by snowraver1 (1052510) on Monday November 03 2008, @05:52PM (#25619243)
        There is a lot of heat that gets created from tidal action. The gas giants have such intense gravity that it warps the surface of the moons as they rotate around the planet. This shifting of the moon creates a lot of heat. Enough to have liquid water? Who knows.

  • Sounds nice but.... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by blackholepcs (773728) on Monday November 03 2008, @05:04PM (#25618613)
    The only problem with stories like this is that we either don't actually do it, or we DO do it and get results that tell us nothing useful (as far as the question of E.T. life). Why can't they just :

    1. Design and build rover/robot/probe whose sole task is to find and identify life on another planet/moon/whatever.
    2. Deploy said rover/robot/probe.
    3. Get definitive answer - Yes there is/yes there was actual life here, or No there isn't/no there wasn't actual life here.
    4. Rinse and repeat.

    Seriously, why is that so hard?

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by internerdj (1319281)
      Because ET life believers have been painted as nutjobs because of the outspoken ones who had ahem "close" encounters with ET life. Scientifically speaking it is certainly probable we could find something else, getting emotional taxpayers to fund something is an entirely different story. Especially with step 4.

      • >> Especially with step 4.

        What's so hard about getting taxpayers excited about funding this step? Every one understands:

        4. Profit

        For real, though. There should be some campaign explaining to the layman (by who I mean, non-scientist / geek) what the actual benefits of life would be. Then we should maybe ask, suppose there are these benefits. What is the chance of finding life. Is the cost worth the statistical payoff? I'd imagine no. Because life would be so difficult to find / identify. Maybe

        • If you get a definative answer of No out of step 3, who is going to want to fund more trips or more trips to different locations with the same goal? Although a definative No would be a start to give corporations free reign to strip resources out of a planet or moon or asteroid rather than here where they are destroying existing life.

          • Or, a definitive "No" might lead to the question, "are there ample resources to support our life". That way we could colonize without putting other life (and our own) at risk by cross-contamination.

        • Step 4. Profit: Big Company* patents/copyrights/trademarks the extra-terrestrial life.

          Disney - toys & Merch
          Monstanto - genes & DNA to spice into our food
          Big Pharma - new Drugs for our baldness
          Big record - a new kind of music
          etc

    • How do you know when you've found life?

      How do you distinguish between life and unusual chemical reactions?

      Sure, if a gnarled humanoid pops up and waves a glowing finger at you, you've found life, but what happens if you just find a brown stain that seems to be producing oxygen? Is it alive or a permanganate salt?

      • ...but what happens if you just find a brown stain...

        Please, enough about the Ubuntu wallpaper already!

    • As someone has already noted, determine what is and is not life is already difficult with terrestrial cases (which presumably are all somewhat related, far enough back in time). Trying to guess what will be "life" on a celestial body is even worse. However, another problem arises and that's scope. For a Mars mission, you might get away with such a narrow objective, but for the outer solar system merely getting there is so expensive that to launch a spacecraft with only one objective like that would proba

    • "1. Design and build rover/robot/probe whose sole task is to find and identify life on another planet/moon/whatever."

      A big part of the problem is "How do you define life [anl.gov]? Add to that the fact that we are often looking for evidence of past life and you have quite a complex puzzle to solve.

      It gets more complex as you go. The universe is vast. [youtube.com] It is easy to say "Deploy said rover/robot/probe." but deploy it where. We do not have the resources to explore even our entire galaxy, let alone the universe.

      • Whoa. Troll? Really? For an on-topic post? Wow. That's just awesome.

        That surprised me too, considering "In space no one can hear you fart" is okay. I would have said "If NASA smelt it, NASA dealt it". I thought your idea was very good. Jump right into that ocean and do a continuous stream analysis until it is either definitely positive or definitely negative.

  • Extra-terrestrials living in the oceans (Score:3, Interesting)

    by mfh (56) on Monday November 03 2008, @05:05PM (#25618635) Journal

    Extra-terrestrials will taste good with some fava beans, and a nice Chianti.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Coraon (1080675)
      actually if its living in cold water and it is on the primitive scale my guess is it'll look like a freaky lobster, so it will probably go better with a white wine and a nice butter sauce...

  • Just go to Taco Bell (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 03 2008, @05:05PM (#25618637)

    I am sure their Enceladus are teaming with bacteria from the unwashed hands of the employees who prepare them.

  • "[Enceladus' water vapor] plume's origin is still being debated"

    Maybe it is a norwegian blue parrot [google.com]. They have lovely plumage.

  • On the other hand... (Score:5, Funny)

    by alexborges (313924) on Monday November 03 2008, @05:26PM (#25618919)

    It may NOT find life there...

    Wow, the things that happen in this crazy solar system.

    • Yeah, that's kind of what I thought. Could? They could find some strange new form of life in my purse or any single man's refrigerator.

  • Laughed at in college (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Mr. McGibby (41471) on Monday November 03 2008, @05:29PM (#25618963) Homepage Journal

    I wrote a paper in a college astronomy course where I speculated that Enceladus might have life given the water there. I was given a lower grade because of it.

    Vindication is sweet.

    • Isn't it too early for you to start gloating?

      • Re:Laughed at in college (Score:4, Insightful)

        by grahamd0 (1129971) on Monday November 03 2008, @07:14PM (#25620161)

        No, because mainstream scientists believe that his speculation has enough merit that they're willing to commit time and money to find out if it's correct.

        That is, I took his post to mean that he was vindicated in the sense that he was making a valid line of inquiry, rather than making up crackpot theories that deserve to be modded down by a teacher.

    • Re:Laughed at in college (Score:5, Funny)

      by sexconker (1179573) on Monday November 03 2008, @05:56PM (#25619291)

      That's what you get for thinking in college.

    • Re:Laughed at in college (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Tablizer (95088) on Monday November 03 2008, @05:59PM (#25619315) Homepage Journal

      I wrote a paper in a college astronomy course where I speculated that Enceladus might have life given the water there. I was given a lower grade because of it. Vindication [of the idea] is sweet.

      The founder of Federal Express allegedly got a "C" for the company's idea outlined in an economics project.
           

  • New close-up pictures of Enceladus taken last week (Score:4, Informative)

    by sighted (851500) on Monday November 03 2008, @05:33PM (#25619009) Homepage
    Just a few days ago, Cassini buzzed close by Enceladus and took high-res shots [nasa.gov] of the fissures where the geysers originate. Earlier this month during an even closer pass, the spacecraft took direct samples of the plume.

  • Misleading Summary (Score:4, Insightful)

    by CheshireCatCO (185193) on Monday November 03 2008, @05:42PM (#25619115) Homepage

    I think that the summary (and to a lesser extent, the story) only accurate if you don't think that Cassini is already looking for signs of life on Enceladus. In fact, Enceladus has become (with Titan) one of the most important mission objectives for Cassini. As the story points out, the kind of data that would help address the possibility of life has already been collected (and will no doubt continue to be collected).

    In other words, this isn't repurposing, it's a story about what's already being done.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Tablizer (95088)

      In fact, Enceladus has become (with Titan) one of the most important mission objectives for Cassini.

      One downside to the life idea is that some speculate that Enceladus's warm condition may be periodic due to a recent but no-longer-existing orbit arrangement with another moon(s). If this is the case, then the moon may not stay warm long enough for life to get a foothold. While earth life is capable of "hibernating" in frozen conditions between cycles, it probably took a while before it got sophisticated eno

      • It depends on how long the warmth lasts. Life on Earth arose fairly quickly after things got habitable. (A few hundred million years is, I believe, now the best figure.) So it's possible for Enceladus to develop life quickly, too, if conditions were suitable.

        Also, you're forgetting the issue of accessibility. Europa's liquids are under at least a kilometer of ice, perhaps as much as ten kilometers. Enceladus's liquids are not only probably near the surface (tens to hundreds of meters), they're spewing

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