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New Study Links Plastics To Heart Disease, Diabetes
Posted by
timothy
on Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:04 PM
from the only-when-used-to-store-food-or-drink dept.
from the only-when-used-to-store-food-or-drink dept.
fprintf writes "There have been a number of studies over the years, some of which have been debunked, linking plastics with human disease. Now British researchers have released a study again linking common plastics used in food/liquid storage with human disease."
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Relative risk (Score:5, Insightful)
I wonder if they will compare the instances of disease to those from food poisoning from earlier methods of food storage?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Plus, nothing makes for great conversation around the coffee maker at the office quite like a human skull fashioned into a mug.
Re:Relative risk (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Relative risk (Score:5, Insightful)
I wonder if they will compare the instances of disease to those from food poisoning from earlier methods of food storage?
Using glass jars sure caused a lot of food poisoning!
Or how about not using BPA in plastics used to store food? Is that so hard to ask? There are probably thousands of plastics that don't use BPA. Why even risk it?
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
My wife is big on Tupperware and a quick check showed that some products contain BPA but not all. That's just one line of products. It's quite surprising how far spread these things are.
Anyways, it's like Transfats we shou
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Using glass jars sure caused a lot of food poisoning!
No, but crystal glas can cause other diseases [thenibble.com].
After centuries of enjoying beautiful lead crystal at table, it has recently come under the scrutiny of health authorities, who were testing paint and other products as possible sources of lead poisoning. Preliminary tests have shown that, over time, significant amounts of lead can migrate from lead crystal containers into liquids stored in them.
* One research team measured the amount of lead migration in Port wine that was stored in lead crystal deca
Plastics, m'boy! (Score:5, Funny)
Don't malign plastic, you dirty hippies. They saved my life in WWII! Why, when I was a lad, we would have KILLED to have plastic food storage. You know what I hear when you say plastics are dangerous? "blah blah blah I hate America blah blah I hate progress blah blah blah." Real Americans can eat plastic like it was apple pie and not get sick.
The same goes double for global warming & the ozone layer. In fact, let's just stop funding research into things that may be bad for us. Only sissies care. All you are doing with your sissy studies is holding back progress and making people worry over nothing.
Admit it: you want us all to go back to living in caves. You hate the modern world and everything in it and you want to destroy it with your evil 'studies.' Elitist intellectual claptrap.
America stands for progress. Except we're not progressive, the damn hippies stole that word and turned it into something dirty. Either you love progress and you know that everything new is better, or you hate America and want everyone to live in caves.
If you hate plastics, you hate the whole human race!
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
that wooshing sound you just heard is sarcasm going over your head.
Damn, I thought it was the giant sucking sound [wikipedia.org] of American jobs rushing overseas. Phew, what a relief that it was only sarcasm.
Good food, bad food (Score:5, Funny)
Every week there will be a new study that reveals some common chemical in our daily lives, will be harmful or good for your health.
Often it will be both harmful and good on consecutive weeks.
Soon I'll be releasing my own study that shows excessive worrying about common foods causes diabetes, cancer and spontaneous combustion.
Re:Good food, bad food (Score:5, Funny)
Actually, you're on to something:
constant worrying about common foods = stress
and?
stress = heart health problems
Cancer is more destructive in those persons who are less able to defend against it.
Stress = weakened immune response
Spontaneous combustion? you're on your own with that one
Parent
This just in! (Score:3, Funny)
It has recently been revealed that a common thread has been found among all human ailments and syndromes.
Everyone that has been afflicted with a disease or syndrome has consumed large amounts of DHMO!
Junk food? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
But wait. What if it's not the junk food that's killing us? What if it's really been the containers all along.
OK. I'm going with this model, because I would much rather have junk food than platics.
Its inside (Score:3, Interesting)
Maybe its not the plastic, but rather the junk food inside the plastic?
Bad Snopes, Bad (Score:5, Insightful)
"some of which have been debunked"
Snopes is good at debunking (urban) myths. They are not, however, good at evaluating science. Debunking is not even an appropriate term or activity to apply to science (as stated by the poster, and as performed by Snopes). Their FAQ lists other forms of common fiction which are not urban myth, but fail to list badly researched statements by or about science among them.
Snopes reports the "debunking" coming from the International Bottled Water Association. Nobody conversant with science would accept a statement from such as biased source as authoritative. Their major hint should have come from the statement that the master's thesis was "not peer reviewed". A thesis is conducted by a student under a committee of professionals, at least one of which (the thesis supervisor) is an expert in that field. Peer review is conducted by the committee. A thesis is intended to be material suitable for rewriting into a publishable paper. It will have the committee members' names on it, in reference if not in the by-line. As professionals they will at least see to it that the result is worthy of carrying their names.
As for the quote in Snopes supposedly from Rolf Halden of Johns Hopkins that there are no dioxins in plastic, do your own research, as Snopes should have done to follow up, and as the Johns Hopkins people should have done before making the statement. Go to: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez [nih.gov] and put in the search terms "plastic" and "dioxin".
Snopes should also have done their research on the link they provide to the Johns Hopkins PR release (not a scientific publication of any sort, and certainly not peer reviewed) making the "hoax" claim. It is not from Halden, it is from Kellog Schwab. In addition to misattribution, they fail to note that the statement is made in the context of J.H. distancing themselves from misattribution in the emails titled "John Hopkins Cancer Update" and such, not in the context of research conducted or reviewed. There is a similar J.H. missive listed among the 150 results from PubMed. It is in a J.H. publication (peer review?) and has no authors credited.
Snopes appears to have found a way to become a subject of their own scrutiny, as they have delved into science and come up as debunkable urban science myth. Stick to urban mythology, Sponesites. Science can and does take care of itself, if you dig for it in science rather than press releases. Evaluating science requires taking the specific hypothetical statements and applying scientific expertise, not merely quoting vested interests (!) who happen to disagree for reasons other than replicable evidence.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Snopes is good at debunking (urban) myths.
Not really. They suck at accepting corrections. For example, there's an article on whether Marilyn Monroe had six toes [snopes.com]. Now, I have no reason to believe that they reached the wrong conclusion, but I know for a fact that at least one of their reasons is fundamentally wrong:
Use Glass (Score:5, Insightful)
There is a reason all chemistry beakers, bottles, and flasks are made from glass, its the only cheap inert material that doesn't on some level mix with what you are containing. Metal and plastic eventually leech out.
Rather than going overboard with the results I would follow some common sense guidelines:
1) If you are a baby or preggers then use glass containers.
2) Use glass containers for heating things in the microwave or for long term liquid storage.
Given that the vast majority of everything we drink and eat these days is either stored in plastic or touches plastic at some point I think its almost impossible to go plastic free, and I doubt it matters much.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Actually, what got us into this bisphenol A mess was that polycarbonate laboratory bottles became popular among regular consumers- chemists who enjoyed outdoor pursuits started taking Nalgene bottles (which are light, stable over a wide range of conditions, and nearly shatterproof) out of the lab and into the woods.
While I am not the sort to get caught up in scares about chemicals , I will admit the bisphenol A thing is a concern. This is Bisphenol A [wikipedia.org], and this is diethylstilbestrol [wikipedia.org]. A nonsteroidal estro
Obligatory Bioshock reference (Score:3, Funny)
Everything causes cancer. (Score:3, Insightful)
Everything causes cancer, and cures it [today.com].
A lot of this "new study" stuff is horrendously [badscience.net] lazy [badscience.net] journalism [badscience.net] caused by having too much space to fill [today.com].
Do Not Eat! (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Corelation. Is. Not. Causation.
So, what, you're suggesting people who live lifestyles that cause heart disease are more likely to also use plastic containers for their food and drink? Or people with heart disease are more likely to use plastic containers? What other correllation are you proposing?
Re:I haven't even rtfa, but here goes (Score:5, Insightful)
Exactly. People who eat more prepackaged foods are more likely to be taking in all sorts of stuff---high fructose corn syrup, higher levels of sugar, higher levels of various preservatives (some of which break down into rather nasty stuff in the presence of citric acid), etc., all of which lead to increased levels of disease, whether it's heart disease, diabetes, cancer, etc. Those prepackaged foods are frequently packaged in containers made out of plastics that leach... yup, you guessed it... bisphenol A.
The correlation is interesting, but it isn't remotely close to proving causation. What would be required for that would be doing another study that compensates for dietary differences (and genetic predisposition and...).
Parent
What TFA actually says (Score:5, Interesting)
People who eat more prepackaged foods are more likely to be taking in all sorts of stuff---high fructose corn syrup, higher levels of sugar, higher levels of various preservatives [...]
It seems that no one bothers to actually read the articles before posting (save the "you must be new here", I'm being sarcastic).
You see, the study didn't test exposure to BPA. It only compared the likelihood of some diseases with the amount of BPA present in the body. That's an important detail.
In other words, this correlation may very well indicate causation... the other way around. Heart disease or diabetes may cause your body to retain more BPA. As simple as that.
Shooting off in random directions and making conjectures about the habits of people who come into contact with BPA is pointless (unless you're planning to back it up with data). For example, BPA is used in the packaging of several vegetables, so you can eat nothing but "health food" and still come into contact with BPA frequently. In fact the article points out that 90% of the people tested had some BPA in their body. Also, high-fuctose corn syrup is relatively rare outside the USA (extremely rare in Europe), and the study was (apparently) conducted in the UK.
In any case the study's authors are not claiming any causation, one way or the other, and they specifically say they did not identify any mechanism through which BPA would cause any illness.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
True about HFCS being rare in Europe. Doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of prepackaged foods with truckloads of sugar, though. And we got some yogurt in Italy last summer that was chock full of HFCS, IIRC, so it's not unheard of even there.
Even among the prepackaged health food crowd (with a few possible exceptions like fresh bagged carrots), people who eat prepackaged foods are more likely to be in a hurry (or else they would buy fresh), and thus more prone to stress, and thus more prone to obesity.
Re:I haven't even rtfa, but here goes (Score:5, Interesting)
Evidence that eating foods with more sweeteners leads to greater obesity, which in turn leads to diabetes? Do I really need to cite studies for something so commonly accepted? Okay, here's a good start:
http://news.healingwell.com/index.php?p=news1&id=521780 [healingwell.com]
http://healthlink.mcw.edu/article/941223597.html [mcw.edu]
http://www.healthsystem.virginia.edu/uvahealth/adult_diabetes/obover.cfm [virginia.edu]
I'm not saying that all type 2 diabetes is caused by obesity---it is well established that this is not the case---but it is well established that a fair percentage of people with type 2 diabetes became diabetic after gaining weight and that these people often cease to be diabetic after surgical intervention to forces weight loss. That's about as clear an establishment of causation as you can get.... The causative mechanism is even somewhat understood at this point.
Or did you mean the proof about the preservatives?
http://www.foodnavigator-usa.com/Science-Nutrition/FDA-re-opens-probe-into-benzene-contamination-of-soft-drinks [foodnavigator-usa.com]
Follow the links from there for loads of info on this subject.
It is fairly well established that sodium benzoate when combined with ascorbic acid (sorry, wrong acid in my previous post... my bad) releases benzene [wikipedia.org], which is a well known carcinogen.
Word to the wise: if you're buying soft drinks or fruit juices preserved with sodium benzoate, be sure to drink them immediately. Don't let them sit on the shelf of your home. What you don't know can kill you.
Parent
Re:I haven't even rtfa, but here goes (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:I haven't even rtfa, but here goes (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:I haven't even rtfa, but here goes (Score:5, Insightful)
Exactly right. "Correlation is not causation" has become more like a reflexive meme around here rather than a thoughtful addition to the conversation.
Parent
Re:I haven't even rtfa, but here goes (Score:5, Funny)
"Exactly right. "Correlation is not causation" has become more like a reflexive meme around here rather than a thoughtful addition to the conversation."
I don't see how you can say that, just because a lot of commenters tend to reflexively reply with that meme to articles about scientific studies linking one thing to another. There can be many reasons for this. Correlation does not necessarily equal cau... uh ... oh, I see your point.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I wish I could mod you up a more.
I don't understand why everyone immediately fires off that stupid one liner every time someone proposes a logical conclusion. Do any of these people understand how science works? You come up with a hypothesis based on an educated guess, then you test to see if it's true. Refuting something outright, saying that there's no concrete proof is the basis of a creationist's argument. If there is evidence to support a claim then there is clearly reason to believe there is causation
I'm not convinced (Score:3, Insightful)
Look, if it were in response to any particular post or claim, I'd understand it. Heck, I could even swallow it as "just watch the hordes claim causation there." Then it at least also gave the question to which it answers.
But posted as a knee-jerk reaction by itself, it is just plain old dumb. And it almost invariably makes a claim about TFA, not about anyone who might misunderstand it.
I mean, picture the following conversation:
You: "But it does keep things from being subtracted by idiots who can't grasp tha
Re:I haven't even rtfa, but here goes (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
I did RTFA and still can't tell much (Score:5, Interesting)
As usual from press reporting of scientific studies it's really hard to tell what to make of the conclusion. The article mentions animal studies that indicate BPA (the plastic) may disrupt hormones (especially estrogen).
The article suggests this is a preliminary study that only measured the correlation (so, yes it appears the assumption was correct) between BPA levels and heart disease and diabetes. It doesn't talking about removing the effect of diet, which is well-known to affect both of these diseases. If that effect is not accounted for in the study, it may well turn out that people who eat lots of meals from BPA containers (or have bad teeth and have fillings with BPA) tend to have less healthy diets as well.
Parent
Re:I did RTFA and still can't tell much (Score:5, Interesting)
And I don't think it's much of a stretch to conclude that people who consume quantities of food and drink from plastic containers might have a somewhat less healthly lifestyle than those who don't.
Another thing about detecting BPA in peaple's bodies. With each new generation of analytical equipment, we gain another decade of sensitivity. Almost anything can now be detected in anything.
OTOH, my tropical fish would die if I left my stock water in 5 gallon jugs longer than a week or so.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Actually they corrolated the results to studies done in animals. So humans with the highest levels of BPA, had the highest levels of heart disease and Diabetes, and this corrolated with toxicity studies done on animals.
So what they are saying is that the toxicity studies done on animals are relevant to the human population. This is a study that is ALWAYS done whenever testing any product/medication/etc which has shown harm in animal testing.
Re:I haven't even rtfa, but here goes (Score:5, Informative)
From TFA
"At least from this study, we cannot draw any conclusion that bisphenol A causes any health effect. "
and:
"The researchers also cautioned that these findings are just the first step and more work is needed to determine if the chemical actually is a direct cause of disease."
Parent
Mod parent redundant (Score:5, Insightful)
From TFA: "At least from this study, we cannot draw any conclusion that bisphenol A causes any health effect. As noted by the authors, further research will be needed to understand whether these statistical associations have any relevance at all for human health."
As noted by the authors. The authors, and the person TFA got a quote from, and TFA all make this concession, and you try to karma-whore by stating the obvious. Read. The. Fine. Article.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I haven't even rtfa but here goes
Corelation. Is. Not. Causation.
Translation: I don't like the conclusion so I'll make a baseless assumption and attack the article without any knowledge of it. Sounds like a severe case of cognitive dissonance to me.
Maybe you should RTFA then. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Maybe you should RTFA then. (Score:4, Insightful)
But don't you know that every media outlet known to man (and a few that are unknown) will grab this headline and run with "Teh cancer causing plastic!!!!!!111!! News at 11:00."
You've got your terror-inducing tagline wrong - too informative and too specific on time. It's supposed to go:
A shocking new study has found that a chemical found in 99.8% of US househoulds may be killing your family. We'll have details on that alarming story sometime in the next 90 minutes. So stay tuned, we return you now to the live coverage of the O.J. Simpson trial.
This should be followed by 6 minutes of live coverage of a lawyer shuffling papers, a commercial break, and a return to the same teaser. Repeat ad nauseum.
Parent
Re:I haven't even rtfa, but here goes (Score:5, Insightful)
If you have a genuine statistical beef with something, please actually explain it rather than smugly stating, "corelation(sic). Is. Not. Causation)
Either that or show me your PhD in statistics.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
n.
A modern performer who specializes in comic mimicry.
1. The art of portraying characters and acting out situations or a narrative by gestures and body movement without the use of words; pantomime.
2. A performance of pantomime.
3. An actor or actress skilled in pantomime.
4. Twenty (20) points if you run one over with a car
Re:BPA can cause more than that. (Score:4, Funny)
Keep using BPA products. And people wonder why girls are hitting puberty so much earlier now.
Internet? (reference: any adult web site)
attention deficit disorder
Internet? (reference: online games)
and neurological systems
Internet? (reference: goatse)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
And people wonder why girls are hitting puberty so much earlier now.
That is because children have much better nutrition than there used to be. As a result, they are able to reach puberty sooner because of better health.
Re:BPA can cause more than that. (Score:5, Informative)
Straight from their own front page:
Never said he did. I was merely pointing out a similarity between Natural News and Kevin Trudeau both claiming that "natural" remedies are more effective than man-made medicines (which are also natural).
Just a few. Like this one [naturalcures.com], this one [amazon.com] and this one [google.com]. So yes, I have proof he is providing miracle cures. That and his infomercials on which he peddles his book which has in its title, "Includes The Natural Cures For Over 50 Specific Diseases".
I never said I didn't like the source. Some "natural" items can be very beneficial to certain people. However, claiming that ONLY "natural" products, such as supplements which are unregulated and don't have to detail what they actually contain or what effect they may have on people, is disingenuous and potentially harmful.
As far as proving them wrong, I don't need to prove them wrong because studies over the years have proven them wrong. Here is one article [cnn.com] which discusses "natural" remedies, and this one [iula.org] which talks about Lycopene.
So yes, I was very intelligent to point out the bias of Natural News so people are aware of their bias. Whether people heed the warning is up to them but they have been warned.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Why should I be modded down for other peoples laziness to do a simple google search to see if the the article is correct?
Just because you or others don't like the source or hate the fact that a source tries to make money to continue their profession doesn't mean the source is biased. I don't see anyone bashing CNN for having advertisements on their websites.
Since you were too lazy to type "BPA NIH" into google I'll do it for you.
http://cerhr.niehs.nih.gov/chemicals/bisphenol/draftBPA_MtgSumm080807.pdf [nih.gov]
The Expert Panel expressed some concern that exposure to Bisphenol A causes neural and behavioral
effects.
The Expert Panel had expressed minimal concern that exposure to Bisphenol A potentially causes
accelerations in puberty.