Slashdot Log In
White House Briefed On "Potential For Life" On Mars
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:02 AM
from the spin-the-wheel dept.
from the spin-the-wheel dept.
Veeoh writes "FTA: It would appear that the US President has been briefed by Phoenix scientists about the discovery of something more 'provocative' than the discovery of water existing on the Martian surface. This news comes just as the Thermal and Evolved Gas Analyzer (TEGA) confirmed experimental evidence for the existence of water in the Mars regolith on Thursday."
Related Stories
[+]
NASA's Mars News Is Not Life, But Perchlorate 289 comments
leighklotz writes "In an update to the little green men story of not-life-on-Mars, NASA has twittered: 'The buzz this weekend was due to an interesting soil chemistry finding, still preliminary, but now avail here:' where 'here' is NASA Spacecraft Analyzing Martian Soil Data. The exciting bit: 'Within the last month, two samples have been analyzed by the Wet Chemistry Lab of the spacecraft's Microscopy, Electrochemistry, and Conductivity Analyzer, or MECA, suggesting one of the soil constituents may be perchlorate, a highly oxidizing substance.' Also, 'NASA will hold a media teleconference on Tuesday, Aug. 5, at 2 p.m. EDT, to discuss these recent science activities.'"
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Full
Abbreviated
Hidden
Loading... please wait.
Big and black (Score:5, Funny)
It's always provocative when you hear they spotted a big black monolith in the regolith.
His first response was probably to ask if this meant Jenna was pregnant.
Re:Big and black (Score:4, Insightful)
Even if this weren't the case, they are our servants and they knew that when they signed up for the job, so either way they are utterly failing to represent us. That's true even if you don't like a crude joke about Jenna.
I seriously doubt George W Bush... hell, ANY member of the Bush clan, has *ever* considered themselves civil "servants". They consider themselves the ruling class, pure and simple. I fear this is an entirely too common opinion of the "elite" nowadays...
Parent
Re:Big and black (Score:5, Insightful)
See if you can let this in. The legal definition of government corruption [wikipedia.org] does not require that you yourself benefit directly from actions you took while in office, in order to qualify for indictment.
It can be your family (Bush Sr., Carlyle Group), your circle of friends, coworkers, former colleagues, etc (Cheney, Halliburton.) Because after you leave office, there are many ways that the benefit can come back to you.
What does it sound like when a government that awards no-bid contracts to companies with direct, tangible connections to the most senior elected and appointed officials? In the beginning, we were told this was necessary due to time constraints; we've now seen nearly seven years of war, and war profits, billions of dollars into the hands of this administration's close friends.
Now we're seeing no-bid oil contracts in Iraq, going to good friends of this administration.
Do you need a Ferdinand and Imelda Marcos to make a determination of corruption, with visible caches of money, cronies spilling out their pockets? No.
Parent
Re:Big and black (Score:5, Interesting)
No paper trail is required to prove corruption. All that has to be shown is that your people benefited, that friends, colleagues, former coworkers etc. gained from your decisions while in office.
The Halliburton no-bid contracts [halliburtonwatch.org] are an excellent starting point, with many more like them to investigate.
Parent
Re:wrong (Score:5, Interesting)
Really? So the numerous agricultural combine lobbyist groups, comprised of small farm holders, is "big cash"? La Raza, the largest Hispanic lobbying group, is "big cash"? How about lobbyists from the ABA, or the AMA?
This notion that only "big cash" hire lobbyists is a myth. And its a myth perpetrated by the ignorant that can only rail against "the MAN" while sitting on their couches doing nothing.
Parent
Re:Big and black (Score:5, Insightful)
If your idea can't muster a few thousand supporters in your state or nationwide to donate $10-$100 each, then maybe it is your idea that is defective, not the lack of anyone hearing it.
Citizens freely associate and donate to mutual interests every day to accomplish local and national goals. Perhaps you should get involved and help out instead of sitting on Slashdot complaining.
Parent
woo (Score:5, Funny)
Re:woo (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:woo (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe the life forms are some sort of stem cells and they're checking on the legality of bringing back samples?
Parent
Re:woo (Score:5, Funny)
I know you're joking, but Bush did find an error in some Fermilab calculations [theonion.com] a while back. Don't underestimate him.
Parent
Re:woo (Score:4, Insightful)
Would you pass up such a golden opportunity for a large-scale, manned mission to Mars?
Parent
Re:woo (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:woo (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:2008 just called... (Score:4, Insightful)
Impeaching the bastard [cnn.com] would do wonders for our political system, regardless of how much time he's got left.
Parent
Re:2008 just called... (Score:4, Insightful)
That is a point that is too overlooked these days. In order to restore the checks and balances, Bush and Cheney much be impeached before leaving office. Failure to do so sets the precedent that a sitting president can ignore limits to his power and order his staff to ignore Congressional subpoenas [democrats.org] And after do so, that President can still complete his term of office. Allowing Bush and Cheney to go impeached finishes the process of turning the Constitution into "just a g*d dammed piece of paper" [rense.com] Bush hating isn't just about the temporary damages that occur during his presidency, but the lasting damages, like the destruction done to our rights and our Constitution. Bush hating is about the amount of freedoms we have lost because of his presidency and how it is very difficult to regain lost freedoms without bloodshed.
Parent
Re:2008 just called... (Score:5, Insightful)
Um...it's still 2008, and Bush is still president. He's part of the news story. And it's damn odd that scientific results have to be 'discussed' with him before they're released.
Parent
Re:2008 just called... (Score:5, Funny)
Not at all. They're being kind and considerate. They know it's going to take him a lot longer to figure out than most people. It is really embarrassing when the "leader" of the "free world" doesn't get it.
Parent
Re:2008 just called... (Score:5, Funny)
2008 just called...[...]and all some people can do is keep hating the past.
2048 just called, and they want their time machine back. Also, I just hung up the phone with 1987 and they want their fucking stupid joke back.
Parent
Already? (Score:5, Funny)
Why don't you link to the original article? (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?id=news/WH08018.xml&headline=White%20House%20Briefed%20On%20Potential%20For%20Mars%20Life&channel=space [aviationweek.com]
Re:Why don't you link to the original article? (Score:5, Interesting)
The key part is in the last paragraph, where it says the "provocative" results came from the experiment where they added water from Earth to a sample of soil. I bet they had a burst of oxygen like the old Viking lander experiments, which no one ever satisfactorily explained. The one that I remembered that made sense was some kind of dry peroxide in the soil formed by UV, which reacted with water to generate O2, but didn't repeat because the peroxide was used up.
I hope this indicates some kind of chemistry that makes it easy to extract breathable O2 from Martian soil, so that any explorers/exploiters won't have to take as much in consumables. Would be nice to find a nitrogen source, then you'd have CHON, which is most of what you need to live. In the right proportions, of course.
Parent
Sheesh (Score:5, Funny)
Colour me confused (Score:5, Interesting)
Heed my word, my brothers, for I have RTFA! It says that there's no way it has confirmed the presence of life right now or in the past on Mars. So what can be the big story they want to tell the President first?
Or if it's no bigger than "we found something that may or may not indicate the possibility that Mars may or may not have probably potentially hosted a form a life, maybe eventually?" then why the secrecy?
Re:Colour me confused (Score:5, Funny)
Heed my word, my brothers, for I have RTFA!
Mod parent down! Parent read the linked article and has an informed opinion. Alert! Alert!
Parent
That's Easy (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Colour me confused (Score:4, Insightful)
My guess is the latter: complex organic molecules.
Parent
Re:Colour me confused (Score:5, Funny)
They found an image of Jesus in one of the soil samples.
Parent
Re:Colour me confused (Score:4, Funny)
So what can be the big story they want to tell the President first?
My bet is that they've spent half a day trying to explain to him that "it's not butter"
Parent
Re:Colour me confused (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not sure if you meant that as a joke or if you were serious. Either way, it's been modded Insightful by someone. Oil would be too big of a discovery. If there were oil, then that would be definitive proof that Mars once did have organic life.
Parent
Re:Colour me confused (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
that seems rather consistent (Score:4, Insightful)
they have always said that the existance of water would make the discovery of life more certain. if indeed they confirmed the existance of water, it seems to me very likely that they will also find at least the building blocks of life if not evidence that basic lifeforms once existed on Mars. It's still a long way from confirming the existance of advance life forms, and even a longer way from confirming the existance of civilization.
i would find it incredible if, after finding life, they did not find any traces of aminoacids or any other building blocks. frankly, i think not finding any evidence of life even though water existed on Mars would be a bigger discovery then finding that some single cell life existed once. but that's just me.
Not much life on Mars. (Score:5, Informative)
The Viking lander [spherix.com] checked for microscopic life on Mars back in 1971. It wasn't a very sensitive test; the lander shot out some "sticky strings" and wound them back in. The lander had a unit which tested whether anything collected assimilated any of a few simple compounds. It didn't.
This established that Mars isn't teeming with microorganisms, like Earth. That doesn't eliminate all possibility of life, or something like it, but it did establish that there's no pervasive ecosystem there.
Re:Not much life on Mars. (Score:4, Insightful)
At least, not in top one centimeter of regolith near the Viking lander, whose landing spot was specifically chosen for its uninterestingness (i.e., flatness).
You can't really take ONE test of this nature and extrapolate it to an entire planet. That's sorta like landing a probe in the Sahara desert and concluding that the entire Earth is a desolate wasteland based on the tests you conducted on a few grains of sand.
Parent
Re:Not much life on Mars. (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, if you did the same test in the Sahara, it would come back positive; a gram of Sahara soil contains maybe a billion bacteria. Bacteria *are* our ecosystem, in a lot of ways. In the water, in Antarctic ice, miles beneath the surface of the earth, they are in their millions.
Parent
Potential life? (Score:5, Funny)
Finally an iron-clad reason to keep the Republicans from aborting Mars missions...
At least until we find actual life, when I guess they'll stop caring and start suggesting that such life invest in its own individual retirement plan.
Meanwhile... (Score:5, Funny)
Missed opportunity (Score:5, Funny)
If they'd just spent a little more time thinking it through, they could probably have come up with something more appropriate like Field Aerosol Recognition Thermal Sensing Nonionic Interference Failtested Frankly Erotic Robot. The resulting acronym would, I am sure, have been more memorable.
Reason for informing White House? (Score:5, Interesting)
http://www.setileague.org/iaaseti/protdet.htm [setileague.org] "The discoverer should inform his/her or its relevant national authorities." This is in Step 2 of the protocol. The implication is that Step 3 will not happen, unless Step 2 is allowed.
This practice is not anything new. When Mars meteorite ALH 84001 was suspected to have fossilized life, previous White House administration was notified. Only after getting permission from White House (took about couple of weeks) was that news even published.
Re:are the muslim? (Score:5, Funny)
Bush: What? The Martians have oil? Can we still extract the water to produce gasoiline?
Parent
Re:Short briefing (Score:5, Insightful)
While i realize you are just bush-bashing, that same statement holds true for a surprisingly large number of humans.
Parent
How little we've changed. (Score:5, Insightful)
While i realize you are just bush-bashing, that same statement holds true for a surprisingly large number of humans.
Which shows how little humanity has progressed in the last 2,000 years. The human race is just a bunch of superstitious bald apes with better tools than their cousins with fur.
Parent
Re:How little we've changed. (Score:4, Insightful)
Viva la differance!
Parent
Re:Short briefing (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes
Parent
Re:Short briefing (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Re:Short briefing (Score:4, Insightful)
"People tend to paint bush as some kind of Christian Fundamentalist,"
Probably because they form his political base and he tends to act, in an official capacity, in accordance with their beliefs and wishes.
"not his own beliefs to judge from his denominational affiliation."
He can believe whatever he wants, its his actions that we are to be concerned with.
Parent
Re:so which is it ? (Score:5, Insightful)
President Bush is the CEO of a large corporation called the Executive Branch. Failing to tell the CEO before a major announcement is bound to get you in trouble. I'm more worried about Mr. Bush quashing or modifying the announcement for religious compliance.
And we all know that someone does deserve to be fired; unfortunately, we have to wait until January for that.
Parent
Re:Am I the only one? (Score:5, Insightful)
On the contrary. We know of one place life originated. If we find a second, suddenly we know that life is almost certainly commonplace, and that intelligent life is almost certainly commonplace.
Right now we don't know anything because we've only got one data point.
Parent
Re:Am I the only one? (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, the GP has kind of a point. If we would find carbon-based life with DNA and the same mapping between triplet codons and amino acids as is found on Earth, the sensible conclusion would be that we still have not seen two instances of life originating, but only a single on that was capable of spreading to another planet. That is still interesting, but the amount of material that would leave a life-inhabited planet with enough velocity to ever get to another star system would be miniscule.
It would still be totally possible that the solar system would be the only inhabited system in the galaxy, or even the observable universe. If we find life on Mars, that is recognizable as such, but still radically different, THEN we are really talking.
Parent
Re:Am I the only one? (Score:5, Insightful)
2 data points in this humongous universe isn't going to be very significant
The funny thing is that you are exactly wrong. You have the data, and you explain to us that you have the data, but you interpret it exactly opposite of what it is.
Life in livable parts of the universe is either very rare or it is very common, it is unlikely that it is something in between. If it is rare, it is extremely rare since so few areas of the universe can support life. Even our own galaxy, which is a rather peaceful place, can only support organic life in a very limited zone in the outer spirals.
So, why are you exactly wrong? If life is rare, ss the data set grows (or the universe becomes more humongous) the chances of finding life on any random planet drops off fast. If you assume that the universe is close to infinite, the chance of finding life on any one planet is exactly zero. Yup. You got it. EXACTLY zero. Now, the universe isn't infinite, but it is damned close to it for practical purposes, so finding life on any random planet is as close to zero as you can get. For any practical math, it IS zero.
Now do you see the significance of finding life on Mars?
If life on Mars developed independently of life on Earth, then that proves beyond any reasonable doubt, that life is basically omnipresent where it is supported.
One data point says nothing. Two data points says everywhere.
Now, if life on Earth and Mars is linked, that tells us something else significant, namely that life is hardier than first thought. It means it can survive for a long period in a fairly hostile environment (vacuum, extreme radiation etc). That would also imply that life can exist in far more places than we thought.
Parent
Re:Phoenix capabilities? (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent