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Mars Soil Appears To Be Able To Sustain Life
Posted by
timothy
on Thu Jun 26, 2008 04:58 PM
from the expensive-way-to-replenish-topsoil dept.
from the expensive-way-to-replenish-topsoil dept.
beckerist writes "Scientists working on the Phoenix Mars Lander mission, which has already found ice on the planet, said preliminary analysis by the lander's instruments on a sample of soil scooped up by the spacecraft's robotic arm had shown it to be much more alkaline than expected. Sam Kounaves, the lead investigator for the wet chemistry laboratory on Phoenix, told journalists: 'It is the type of soil you would probably have in your back yard, you know, alkaline. You might be able to grow asparagus in it really well. ... It is very exciting for us.'"
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Growing Asparagus on Mars... (Score:5, Funny)
It would probably lead to a very smelly planet.
Re:Growing Asparagus on Mars... (Score:5, Funny)
Join the exciting new Mars colony! Wide open spaces! All-you-can-eat asparagus!
Parent
Re:Growing Asparagus on Mars... (Score:4, Funny)
(*) I know that's bollocks..
Parent
Re:Growing Asparagus on Mars... (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Growing Asparagus on Mars... (Score:5, Funny)
Priorities, priorities!
Parent
How about the cocoa plant instead? (Score:4, Funny)
After all, Mars and cocoa go together like IBM and genetic sequencing [slashdot.org].
Parent
Re:Growing Asparagus on Mars... (Score:5, Informative)
(*) I know that's bollocks..
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=1759493 [physicsforums.com]
http://www.philforhumanity.com/Terraforming_Mars.html [philforhumanity.com]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming_of_Mars [wikipedia.org]
The problem right now is not the temperature or the sun, we have some forms of life that could handle Mars right now, as far as I know (Asparagus, for example, as well as plenty of microbes). The problem is the plant just isn't heavy enough to keep gas close to it.
Parent
Re:Growing Asparagus on Mars... (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Re:Growing Asparagus on Mars... (Score:5, Insightful)
1. escape velocity of mars
2. distribution of the velocity of the molecules comprising the proposed atmosphere
There are some relatively simple kinetic models for #2 that do a decent enough job. Long story short, if the bulk of the distribution of #2 is greater than #1, then the gas will escape, as it has more velocity than escape velocity. At what rate? Again, depends **how** far above escape the bulk of the distribution is.
Here on earth, the vast bulk of the distribution(s) of each of the consitutents of air fall under the escape velocity of earth - so we lose very little in the way of our atmosphere to space. But we do lose a little here and there. The lower escape velocity on Mars is what hurts its atmosphere potential.
Parent
Re:Growing Asparagus on Mars... (Score:5, Informative)
OK! I was hoping someone with high speed internet access would do this for me, but I did it. NASA says that much of Mars' atmosphere was lost to pressure from the solar wind, but "[...] solar wind erosion was likely much more effective in the past than it is today [nasa.gov]." Some believe that Mars' atmosphere was lost mostly due to collisions from a variety of potential impactors [findarticles.com]. Apparently you can or once could take a class at uoregon which would teach you that there was insufficient temperature for [Martian] water to remain as a liquid [uoregon.edu], so it froze out leaving CO2 as the primary component in the atmosphere. Which is OK, that's an atmosphere! We want it for warming (CO2 is great) and for providing pressure so that we can survive with an air mask (for which purpose it would be fine.) I mean, an oxygen atmosphere would be dandy, but any atmosphere would be an upgrade. However, it might also have been 7.5 bar [pibburns.com] of CO2 when Mars was young, which would be a bit excessive for our purposes. Actually, .5 bar would probably do the job, although it would certainly limit the value of suction-based pumps in a non-pressurized environment...
Parent
Re:Growing Asparagus on Mars... (Score:4, Informative)
How about potatoes?
Parent
They're a little late in the year for asparagus (Score:4, Funny)
Let's hope the lander doesn't break down before next year's asparagus season.
FTA: (Score:5, Funny)
You might be able to grow asparagus in it really well. ... It is very exciting for us.
And I thought I didn't get out much.
Re:FTA: (Score:5, Funny)
growing weed should be more interesting, over there it's nobody's jurisdiction :)
Parent
not that interesting (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:not that interesting (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:FTA: (Score:5, Insightful)
They went to great lengths to avoid contamination of the Mars environment with life from Earth. One of their objectives is to see if there's life on Mars, remember?
Parent
Re:FTA: (Score:5, Interesting)
they go to great lengths NOT to bring life to mars. Read up on "bio-barrier". If the spacecraft get contaminated during construction or prep they have to re-sterilize it. They want to find life, not spread it.
If you accidentally bring life to Mars, that makes it about impossible to discover it and know for sure it's Martian life and not something you brought, or that mutated from something you brought.
Although I agree that if we determine there is NO life on mars, I say our next probe is sent with a well-planned variety of "colonizer" lifeforms to begin teraforming of the planet so it's at least borderline useful by the time we can send people out there.
Parent
Re:FTA: (Score:5, Funny)
That is, unless somebody's done us the favor of leaving a giant insta-terraforming machine lying around there, in which case we just need to send Ahhnold to staht de reactor.
Parent
Re:FTA: (Score:5, Insightful)
Can we ever conclusively determine that there is no life on Mars?
Given that we are still uncovering life in the most unlikely places on Earth, who knows where it could be found on Mars. Do we need to look under every rock, and take a billion core samples before we are satisfied that the introduction of terrestrial life will not destroy any chance of finding native life?
Parent
Re:NASA is not interested in proving the negative (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm perpetually amused that folks whine how we can't replace an old-growth forest or rainforest but terraforming a planet, hey, no problem there. All you need to do is sprinkle a little spores and fairy dust and boom you have Earth II, except without all the people mucking it up...
You asked the question and answered it at the same time. Life is very resilient to most anything short of more aggressive life. The old growth forests actually require less effort to fix than to kick-start mars. All you have to do is leave them alone for awhile and they would recover on their own. Keeping people from continuing to drag them down further is the trick. Mars has the edge here in that it's very hard for US to screw it up.
It's more economical to spend $500mil to start an ecosystem that will maintain and develop itself without further interaction, fertilized only with time, than to spend $100mil every few years trying to keep fixing up what people keep breaking, and still continue to lose ground.
Parent
Re:FTA: (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, while the soil may very well be conducive to growing asparagus, the temperatures most certainly are not. Asparagus is fairly hardy (depending on the cultivar), relatively speaking; but surviving -70C (or even -70F) is too much to ask of the plant.
I must say this is the first time my knowledge of vegetable gardening has ever come in handy on Slashdot!
Parent
Re:FTA: (Score:5, Funny)
Well, that's easy, Monsanto has a patent on growing produce in off-world ecologies. Clearly NASA does not have the budget to pay Monsanto royalties
Parent
Re:FTA: (Score:5, Funny)
I bet they don't read Slashdot though.
Of course not. Slashdot is more interesting than asparagus, though sometimes not as intelligent.
Parent
1 cubic meter? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:1 cubic meter? (Score:4, Informative)
I found that to be rather large as well, but according to Wikipedia [wikipedia.org]:
The Robotic Arm (RA) is designed to extend 2.35 m from its base on the lander, and have the ability to dig down to 0.5 m below the surface.
However, I still doubt that they actually scooped up 1^3 meter of soil, but rather parts of an area that is 1^3 meter...
Parent
Re:1 cubic meter? (Score:5, Insightful)
In a related martian breakthrough [spaceflightnow.com], apparently an asteroid hit Mars with an energy of "1029 joules, which is equivalent to 100 billion gigatons of TNT."
I assume they meant 10^29 J. But still, the inability of most scientific journalist's to even check the plausibility of their figures is astounding.
Parent
Asparagus (Score:4, Funny)
Martian Red (Score:5, Funny)
Martian pot is what I'm waiting for. I'm sure it would be outta this world.
Re:Martian Red (Score:5, Funny)
Given the gravity differences, an ounce of of pot on Mars would get you *much* higher.
Parent
Re:Martian Red (Score:4, Funny)
There is a large contingent of Slashdot posters in Amsterdam apparently.
Parent
NEWS FLASH! (Score:5, Funny)
I can see the headlines now in all the papers, when this quote goes mainstream;
TOP SCIENTIST CLAIM MARS SOIL SUPPORTS ASPARAGUS LIKE LIFE FORMS!
Asparagus on Mars (Score:5, Funny)
Just more evidence that Big Asparagus has co-opted our national science agenda.
The Soil, Maybe, But What About the Environment? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:The Soil, Maybe, But What About the Environment (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:The Soil, Maybe, But What About the Environment (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Life on Mars (Score:5, Funny)
Farnsworth: Well, in those days, Mars was just a dreary uninhabitable wasteland. Much like Utah. But unlike Utah, it was eventually made livable.
Funding Required For New Mars Mission! (Score:5, Funny)
WASHINGTON -- NASA has submitted funding proposals for a new Mars mission, scheduled to launch in 2012. The mission will entail a new Mars lander called the Advanced Series Polymorphic Asparagus Research Automated Growing Unit Seedfarm, or ASPARAGUS, and is expected to grow several varieties of asparagus in martian soil.
"[We] might be able to grow asparagus in it really well... It is very exciting for us" says Sam Kounaves, mission planner for the new endevour.
The lander will be expected to gather soil and deposit it into a 'grow-op' like container, where asparagus seeds will be added to the mix. "We just don't know what will happen after that, it will be very exciting to watch the developments unfold over subsequent weeks." he adds.
Included in the lander will be a CD filled with asparagus recipies for future astronauts of the first manned Mars mission, planned for 2050. "The CD will contain dozens of recipies all featuring asparagus as the main ingredient. Things like boiled asparagus, steamed asparagus, steam boiled asparagus, fried asparagus, and even just plain asparagus!" says Angela Schmidt, the mission's asparagus habilitation expert.
The $480 million project is expected to be greenlit later this year.
Re:send seeds (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:send seeds (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Re:send seeds (Score:4, Insightful)
Knowing the right questions to ask has always been more valuable than a large amount of rote knowledge when it comes to problem solving. Failing to teach this kind of skill is one of the great weaknesses of our modern school system. Rote memory is dropping into an even less important role as the information age progresses, even as public schools face more and more standardized tests as their educational benchmark. All that said, in a social world, grace and courtesy can play almost as much of a role in getting your ideas heard as having the right answer.
Parent
Re:send seeds (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:AP News Article (Score:5, Informative)
Wait... pH over 7 means a solution is "salty"? Salts are electrically neutral; surely they meant "alkaline" or "basic".
Parent
Re:AP News Article (Score:5, Informative)
umm...pH over 7 means alkaline, not salty.
Parent
Re:AP News Article (Score:5, Informative)
Ocean is usually ph 8.5 or higher. However, in some areas on the planet earth the soil has high ph value (not acid). Plants do well in that type of soil, as do most living things.
Parent
Re:AP News Article (Score:5, Interesting)
i.e. We're still missing the magic ingredient: Nitrogen. Getting a sufficient quantity of nitrates to Mars might end up being the biggest problem with colonization efforts in the future. We obviously have water. CO2 can be reprocessed into O2.
The soil is not toxic. Now all we need is Nitrogen and a good method of bootstraping industrial production on Mars. (Shipping heavier technology would be impractical.)
Parent
Re:Life? (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:Only a 'might'? (Score:5, Informative)
Well, the *soil* might be capable of supporting Asparagus, but the seeds might not like the temperature, atmosphere, or ambient radiation.
Parent
Re:So... (Score:4, Insightful)
You'll want to be crashing comets into Mars, not asteriods. After all, what is crashing a rock into Mars going to do, apart from adding a new crater? Crashing a couple of megatons of CO2, H2O, and other gasses into Mars, well that's a different story. Not only do you get your brand new crater, but you add a couple of megatons of C02, H2O, and other gasses to the atmosphere.
Parent
Re:What every Mars Lander story needs... (Score:5, Insightful)
The entertainments you call fitting for adults strike me as juvenile pursuits. I would never seek to make it illegal for you to pursue them, but please clearly understand, I will never accept your claim that these interests make you a more mature adult human being.
Bringing about the birth of living worlds from previously dead worlds may be an impossible dream, as you claim, but the beauty of its potential is stirring enough to make it a worthy goal for a mature intelligent species.
If we fail to achieve this goal on Mars, we can and should find other planets where it can succeed. If we also fail to do that, it will be because we allowed ourselves to be distracted by short term pleasures such as those you describe, or because we followed your siren call to pour all our resources into repeatedly failing "solutions" for perennial problems such as poverty or disease. By all means, let us continue trying to solve humanity's problems on this planet. But don't use that as an excuse to shut down all space exploration efforts.
I care about humanity more deeply than you seem to be able to imagine. I care enough to want a future for humanity that extends beyond the lifespan of any single planet, beyond the lifespan of any single star system, and if possible, beyond the lifespan of any single galaxy. How is this any less mature than the desire of parents to hope their children and grandchildren might continue to prosper for many future generations?
If we fail to secure such a future for our descendants, the end result might very well be a sterile, dead universe, where nobody else will ever again have the chance to enjoy sex, skydiving, skiing or anything else adults do for excitement.
Bringing Mars to life may be so difficult it approaches the impossible. But it may be the best place to take the first step toward opening up the universe for humankind, and that makes it worth the effort.
Parent