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New Method Discovered For Making Telescopes On the Moon
Posted by
Soulskill
on Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:16 PM
from the i'm-sure-macgyver-has-some-ideas-too dept.
from the i'm-sure-macgyver-has-some-ideas-too dept.
NASA scientists have discovered a way to craft very large mirrors using carbon nanotubes, some epoxy, a little bit of aluminum, and large quantities of lunar dust. They say the technique will allow the construction of massive telescopes on the moon without the expense and risk of transporting the mirrors from Earth. Douglas Rabin of the Goddard Space Flight Center is quoted saying, "Our method could be scaled-up on the moon, using the ubiquitous lunar dust, to create giant telescope mirrors up to 50 meters in diameter." While this breakthrough was relatively cheap, NASA is currently offering up to $10 million for other good lunar research projects.
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What Shall We Do With the Moon Once We Get There? 524 comments
MarkWhittington writes "For the first time in over thirty five years, the Moon has become the next frontier. The United States has committed to returning human astronauts to the Moon by the end of the next decade. China has hinted that it intends to do this also. A variety of countries, including the United States and China, but also India, Europe, and Japan, have either sent robotic probes into lunar orbit or are on the verge of doing so." Contribute your favorite moon ideas below; I'd like to see it used as the set to film The Moon is a Harsh Mistress .
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dustbuster (Score:3, Insightful)
First time using extraterrestrial materials? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:First time using extraterrestrial materials? (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:First time using extraterrestrial materials? (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
Re:Dr Evil (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Slow process (Score:2)
Re:Slow process (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Slow process (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Practical applications (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Practical applications (Score:5, Funny)
We carry a harpoon
But their ain't no whales so we tell tall tales
And sing this whaling tune
Brett
Parent
Al Gore already invented this (Score:2)
MacGyver-scope (Score:4, Funny)
He still needs paperclips (Score:3, Funny)
Aluminum? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Aluminum? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Forget your stupid observatory! (Score:5, Funny)
Oh great More Outsourcing (Score:5, Funny)
Somebody contact Lou Dobbs!
Re:Oh great More Outsourcing (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
I, for one... (Score:5, Funny)
What's the old method ... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:What's the old method ... (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Ikea (Score:5, Funny)
Yes, their biggest seller is called Skope, but you can also get the Refraktor or Kassegrain.
Parent
Ingenious (Score:5, Informative)
Heck, the first thing that came to my mind was "When did NASA hire MacGyver?" :-) Anyway, the process sounds quite reasonable. And Moon would make a wonderful observatory. I have been dreaming about lunar observatories since I was a kid quarter a century ago (at that time, I stumbled upon books written by a well-known local popular science writer).
No atmosphere, sixth the gravity, little need for compensating the structure deformations? Sounds good. The question is how heavy the manufacturing equipment would be. And there might more problems at least with optical telescopers - I recently stumbled upon a nice article [space.com] on this topic.
Re:Ingenious..But (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Ingenious..But (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
I want a degree in... (Score:5, Interesting)
How cool would it be to design and build huge projects in 1/6 gravity? There would have to be some incredible designs that would just be too fragile to stand up under Earth atmosphere and gravity, and the range of materials you could use would seem limitless. Maybe a nest of lasers to give a long-term boost to an interstellar probe?
There's got to be huge advantages to building in a lunar environment, with raw materials available right there, and the chance to create living space just by drilling and sealing instead of fabricating from scratch.
Overheard on comm channel: (Score:5, Funny)
"That's no space station. It's a moon!"
One of those "next" steps seems hard (Score:4, Interesting)
Getting a large enough volume at room temperature (assuming you need some air pressure too) on the moon to mix it with epoxy and spin it (also presumably at room temperature) might be pretty hard to do without some bulky equipment. Although vacuum coating the mirror blank might seem easier on the moon, as other commentors noted, how do you keep it dust free?
So to summarize...
1. Bring epoxy, carbon nanotubes, aluminum and big spinner to the moon
2. ???
3. Coat resulting lunar dust blank with aluminum to make a mirror
4. Profit?!? (until it's covered with dust)
Re:One of those "next" steps seems hard (Score:4, Interesting)
The moon lacking an atmosphere, and there as such being no weather, the moon dust is quite stable.
It only shifts when something (like an astronaut's boot or a meteorite) pushes it, so the odds of a mirror staying largely dust-free are pretty good.
As to spinning stuff in room temperature on the moon... That part sounds harder
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Actually, there are static electric potentials set up as the moon passes through Earth's magnetotail and also as the terminator passes over the surface. These are believed to kick dust up -- we have some evidence from equipment left by Apollo astronauts. To be honest, we won't know for certain until we go back and look.
Astronaut 1} "OK, you stand there and tell me what happens."
Astronaut 2} "Ok..."
Astronaut 1 runs away
Astronaut 2} "Hey, where are you going???"
Kzzzrrtt
Astronaut 2} "You asshole. That h
Lunar mirror fab means big manufacturing changes (Score:4, Interesting)
Lunar telescope manufacturing would require some exciting scientific, engineer, and processing improvements that would also pay off for terrestrial manufacturing.
First, assuming they're not planning to house and employ a standard aerospace company, with 1000 engineers, technicians, and managers on the moon, this would be fully automated. Mirror making is anything but automated. The development of highly automated methods for processing and testing mirrors would be quite a move forward. It would also have direct benefits for conventional manufacturing.
Second, making a mirror on the moon would seem to require a tolerance of risk currently not accepted. Every time a mirror is moved, a crew of people must oversee the affair, sign the (physical) paperwork, and manually inspect the mirror afterwards. For lunar construction, this would have to become an assembly line that ran without that direct oversight, paperwork, or crews. Enabling more efficient methods would certainly benefit normal processes as well.
Moreover, the task of creating such a facility would keep many, many aerospace workers employed for years
Re:Lunar mirror fab means big manufacturing change (Score:3, Interesting)
http://www.sciencefriday.com/newsbriefs/read/113 [sciencefriday.com]
Anyways, a professor in my physics departement, Ermanno Borra, has been working on a very similar concept for about 20 years. And honestly, it has become pretty much a running joke, seeing how much money he's getting from the government, although he has very few results to show.
He works on liquid mirrors. It uses a liquid that is preferably ferromagnetic and covered with a thin film of si
Someday... (Score:3, Funny)
You're right. (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
How much epoxy? and other problems (Score:2)
How is it going to be aluminum plated? To use the minimal amount of aluminum here on earth, we would use electroplating - which requires that the entire dish be put in an electroplating tank - and that's going to be one big tank! I am not so sure that you can get
Pseudo-nanotechnology (Score:2)
The pseudo-nanotechnology people are a pain. Especially when they work for NASA. They make some minor improvement in materials science, then call a press conference to announce giant telescopes on the moon.
Let's see those guys produce one good-sized mirror without polishing before turning on the NASA PR machine.
Transparent aluminium? (Score:2)
Is this really a BEST method? (Score:2, Insightful)
Nitpick (Score:2)
As strong as concrete... (Score:4, Interesting)
myke
Vs. Hubble? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)