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Laser Triggers Electrical Activity In Thunderstorm

Posted by kdawson on Mon Apr 14, 2008 07:18 PM
from the ionized-path-between-the-clouds-part-deux dept.
Science Technology
esocid writes "A team of European scientists has deliberately triggered electrical activity in thunderclouds for the first time by aiming high-power pulses of laser light into a thunderstorm. At the top of South Baldy Peak in New Mexico during two passing thunderstorms, the researchers used laser pulses to create plasma filaments that could conduct electricity. No air-to-ground lightning was triggered because the filaments were too short-lived, but the laser pulses generated discharges in the thunderclouds themselves up to several meters long. Triggering lightning strikes is an important tool for basic and applied research because it enables researchers to study the mechanisms underlying lightning strikes. Moreover, triggered lightning strikes will allow engineers to evaluate and test the lightning-sensitivity of airplanes and critical infrastructure such as power lines. Research into laser-triggered lightning has been going on for some years. Until now, no experiment was able to produce a long enough plasma channel to affect the electrical activity inside clouds."
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[+] Researchers Unravel Mystery of Lightning Diversity 65 comments
coondoggie writes to tell us that researchers from Penn State and New Mexico Tech have unraveled the mystery of lightning diversity. A new "Lightning Mapping Array" has been able to show detailed models on how lightning acts. "About 90% of lightning occurs inside clouds and is not visible to the casual observer, researchers said. The researchers wondered if lightning that appears within clouds and the lightning that escapes upward or downward shared the same development mechanisms, researchers said. Lightning forms in clouds when different areas of the cloud become either positively or negatively charged. Once the electric field near a charged area exceeds a certain propagation level, lightning occurs. The type of lightning depends on where the charge builds and where the imbalance in charge exists in the clouds. The mechanism behind different types of lightning is what the new model shows, researchers said."
Submission: Laser triggers electrical activity in thunderstorm by esocid (946821)
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  • Electricity source? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by billy901 (1158761) on Monday April 14 2008, @07:22PM (#23071820) Homepage
    If the cost of the lasers and the energy for them didn't cost to much, it may be a possibility in the future to create energy using lightning strikes. Due to the infrequency of lightning, no one has ever made a great effort to try this. If the technology is cheap enough, this would be a great test and possibly a future energy source.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      And how do you control and store such power? You know, it can be really hard to stop a spark that has traveled thousands of meters just to reach the earth...

    • Re:Electricity source? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by RobertM1968 (951074) on Monday April 14 2008, @07:32PM (#23071902) Homepage Journal

      Well, the other issue comes from storing that much electricity delivered in such a short period of time...

      I think the problem may be the methods being used... I would think it more logical to try to drain such energy from the sky on a slower basis than to try to capture a lightning bolt...

      But then again, I am no scientist...

      • Very high voltage capacitors could possibly be used. With the laser technique, I would bet they could control how much energy they pulled out to some extent. Maybe not though - it is lightning.

        But if you dropped a bolt into a big, high-voltage capacitor, you could then drain it off into something else for longer storage or use. Maybe.

          • Re:Electricity source? (Score:5, Informative)

            by NeverVotedBush (1041088) on Monday April 14 2008, @09:15PM (#23072714)
            Not exactly. What the "super" in supercapacitors means is that they have extremely high capacitance and can store a large amount of charge.

            The rub is that they cannot handle much in the way of voltage. Typically in the 2 to 4 volts range depending on the type. So if you want to store a lot of voltage, you need to put them in series and that lowers the capacitance back down.

            Supercaps are not suitable for high voltage. The reason you don't see them powering electric cars instead of batteries is the voltage issue. Manufacturers and researchers are working on that but for now, the voltage a supercap can stand is very low.

            • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

              by evanbd (210358)

              No, the issue with supercaps isn't voltage, when it comes to cars. (I'll ignore catching lightning; it's a bad power source for lots of reasons.) A few in series gets into the range that power electronics can work with easily enough. No, the problem with supercaps is that they're still heavier than even lead acid batteries, and expensive. They're getting cheaper and better, though -- and last I looked into it, there were pieces of them in labs that were competitive with batteries. The best ones I've fo

      • Picture this, you could spend Petawatts of energy in two seconds to have lightning strike precisely where the leader of country X is standing.
        Can you? You will.

        • precisely where the leader of country X is standing.

          Did you have a particular country in mind? :-)

          I'd rather not say what country I would have in mind - if I were so inclined, that is... which I am not... really.

          • RobertM?

            Is that really you?

            There's plenty of thunder around Harare this time of year :o)

            Please stand under this tree.

    • The problem is not lack of( lightening strikes all over the planet every minute). The problem is getting it to hit in the same place over and over as well as being able to handle the amount of power that comes with it. If this can be used in areas that get lots of strikes, it may be possible to direct them to a collection spot. Btw, some good spots for collections would be mountain tops. Here in colorado, being on top a 14er in the mid-afternoon can be challenging. We actualy get a lot of fried texans and Californians each year (caused by an inability to understand that when you are above tree-line, you are the most electrically conductive item there).

    • Re:Electricity source? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by MBCook (132727) <foobarsoft@foobarsoft.com> on Monday April 14 2008, @08:04PM (#23072184) Homepage

      I agree with my sibling comments that this is almost certainly infeasible. Storage would be a nightmare, trying to suddenly absorb all that energy.

      However, the first thing that came to my mind was radio. Protecting antennas (especially the large ones like AM broadcast) I'd imagine is quite tough and expensive. You are going to take hits, and you have to have everything designed to deflect as much energy as possible. You obviously don't want your millions and millions of dollars of equipment getting fried. The insurance on all this can't be cheap.

      Yet if you could use a laser to drain local clouds near your antennas... you might be able to seriously mitigate possible strikes or at least the damage they might cause.

      Heck, if you could make this really cheap (obviously difficult, especially given laser power requirements) you could protect kids sports events and such that might otherwise get cancelled.

      In the midwest, sudden and STRONG thunderstorms are quite normal during parts of the year. I could see this being useful.

      Heck, synch the pulses up to the local radio station as an advertisement. "LAZR 102.7, now protecting you from lightning. Shows start when the thunder does!"

      (be afraid of NPR pledge drive week)

  • ...to shooting a laser at a big storm cloud trying to generate lightning. None whatsoever.

  • Lightning rocketry (Score:5, Interesting)

    by cojsl (694820) on Monday April 14 2008, @07:28PM (#23071864) Homepage
    A research site in Florida fires rockets trailing a wire into thunderstorms to stimulate lightning strikes: http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/rocket_lightning_030130.html [space.com] Video on this page: http://skydiary.com/gallery/chase2002/2002lightmovie.html [skydiary.com]

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by dustbin (765846)
      Wire not needed with a big enough rocket. See Atlas-Centaur 67 incident report. : (
  • OK, you may need more electricity to drive the laser than one can get from a discharge, but how about harvesting the clouds?
  • From TFA:

    Because the plasma channels were too short, the electrical discharge was only able to travel a few meters before dissipating. The team believes that, by increasing the laser pulses by a factor of 10, they would be able to create longer plasma channels, in order to trigger air-to-ground electrical discharges.

    Just be sure you surround the laser with some sort of Faraday cage...we'd hate to see your experiment succeed...only to lose your expensive high-power laser to a lightning strike... ^_^

    • I would think you could use a grounded turning mirror and/or a grounded aperture to shoot through.

      You could also use a beam expander and condenser over a distance to lower the power density such that you didn't make a conducting channel that would provide an electrical disconnect.

      Still, this is very cool stuff!

  • As cool as that would be, I'd rather have Mjolnir and use that to control the storms...

    Just a thought...

    Though I didnt write this list (I DO have more of a life than that!), I thought it cool...

    http://www.aibuiltpc.com/THOR_and_Mjolnir.html


  • Just go fly a kite... and don't forget your keys!

  • Lasers again. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Bovius (1243040) on Monday April 14 2008, @07:31PM (#23071888)
    Sometimes I think these discoveries aren't the result of due scientific process. Sometimes I think a bunch of researchers were sitting around a break room table and said, "Let's shoot lasers at clouds!" Shooting anything with a laser to see what happens is a noble scientific endeavor.
  • ...make a lower resistance path between cloud and ground...

    Either with a wire on a rocket or a lower density column of heated air...

    So, that lowers the threshold of charge differential required for the discharge.

    • They've been using the "wire on a rocket" scenario in Florida for quite some time to "experiment" with lightning...

      Dunno what they learned from it, or what they are doing now... just know I saw it on some science special (Discovery Channel, or Weather Channel or someplace like that).

  • a new tool for America's War on Drugs! [usatoday.com]

    Yeah, I don't listen to me either.
  • There are simpler ways. Ben Franklin used a kite to good effect. Long metal poles in the middle of a field also work.

  • This makes me think of the storm generator in Red Alert 2. If could something even remotely like that working...

  • Mwahahaha! (Score:5, Funny)

    by patternmatch (951637) on Monday April 14 2008, @07:48PM (#23072062)

    Triggering lightning strikes is an important tool for basic and applied research

    Don't forget supervilliany.

  • Now we know what bored scientists do (Score:4, Funny)

    by the eric conspiracy (20178) * on Monday April 14 2008, @07:50PM (#23072078)
    Sounds like there could be a Darwin Award in this.

  • I'm still waiting for the television broadcast on every channel to say the mad scientist is holding the world hostage.

  • Here's hoping... (Score:5, Funny)

    by creimer (824291) on Monday April 14 2008, @07:56PM (#23072144) Homepage
    A bunch of basement dwellers will rush outside with their mini laser lights to either get zapped by lightning or busted by the police for being terrorists when a plane flies overhead. Their sacrifices for science will be greatly appreciated by the community.
  • I remember watching a video about a guy who shot homemade rockets, trainling a long thin wire, into thunderclouds. Pretty cool.

    Apparently, the exhaust and the wire both triggered lightning strikes that traveled down the wire and/or exhaust plume to the ground.

    Pretty neat.
  • It looks like Destro has finally succeeded in getting the Weather Dominator [joeheadquarters.com] online...
  • If I'm not mistaken that mountain is in the Philmont Scout Reservation. Surely there must be other slashdotters that have climbed it. Yes?

  • Solution to our energy woes! (Score:3, Funny)

    by Repton (60818) on Monday April 14 2008, @09:56PM (#23073098) Homepage

    1. Set up giant skyward-pointing laser.
    2. Connect to mad-scientist-style lightning rod.
    3. Wait for thunderstorm.
    4. Profit!!!

    We use the lightning to drive the laser, and syphon off the excess energy into big batteries. The process is self-sustaining until the storm runs out of juice, when it ends naturally. Free electricity for us and no lightning damage to the surrounding area 'cause we're sucking down all the bolts ourselves. It's win-win!

    (of course, now all the America-hating greenies will come out of the woodwork, claiming that we're exploiting the world's natural lightning resources, and warning of grave consequences once we reach "peak storm" or other such nonsense)

  • If I'm not telling the truth.... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ppanon (16583) on Monday April 14 2008, @09:58PM (#23073114) Homepage Journal
    I remember in the 80's seeing a TV show on directions in space-based weapons research for the SDI/Star Wars program. While both lasers and particle beam weapons were considered, each had their drawbacks. Lasers were subject to attenuation from clouds and atmospheric dust, whereas particle beam weapons were subject to bending from the Earth's magnetic field, as well as dispersion from electrostatic repulsion of the ions. One suggested possible approach was to use a (relatively) lower-power laser to ionize a plasma channel as a conduit for the ionized particle beam (although I expect that would only be effective in atmosphere and therefore would require a lot of LEO satellites). So laser-seeded lightning isn't a huge stretch in that direction - a bigger question would be why hasn't anybody tried it before?

    But this article got me thinking about politicians and religious fundamentalists who lie through their teeth while exclaiming "If I'm lying, may God strike me down with lightning/where I stand". A set of geosync laser platforms powerful enough to create an ionized channel between storm clouds and people who have uttered that phrase just seems long overdue.

    • easy, flying sharks!
      • Well, sharks can't breath in the atmosphere, so they'd also have to be zombies.

        Is there anything cooler or more deadly than lightning-generating flying zombie sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads?
    • . . .means. "Reverse Engineering", I think is not the right term here. I think "applications" might be a better term, possibly. That is, you can possibly apply the scientific principle that has been discovered in this experiment to technologies such as you describe - e.g. using it to shield cities/property from damage.

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