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Blue Lights To Reset Internal Clocks
Posted by
samzenpus
on Thu Mar 20, 2008 01:28 AM
from the you-can-sleep-when-you-are-dead dept.
from the you-can-sleep-when-you-are-dead dept.
holy_calamity writes "Researchers at RPI are testing the effects of putting blue LEDs inside cars to keep drivers alert. People driving through the night are much more likely to cause accidents because our circadian rhythms just want to sleep — blue light at around 450nm wavelength can fool them into thinking it's morning and keep them awake."
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Does this mean that ... (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Does this mean that ... (Score:5, Insightful)
That's the real problem in today's modern world --- people are staying up too late & not getting enough hours sack time. Then the lack of sleep catches up, and they nod off in the office (or worse, their car).
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Re:Does this mean that ... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Does this mean that ... (Score:5, Insightful)
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For morning people, maybe.. (Score:5, Funny)
I'm rarely awake before 2pm, you insensitive clod!
Is this really the answer? (Score:5, Insightful)
To me it would seem to inspire false confidence on the part of the driver, where they might think that they could stay up and not have to worry about falling asleep driving since they had their blue lights blinking or whatever.
I'm thinking that the real solution is making people in the public more aware of the dangers of driving with too little sleep. Everyone knows they shouldn't drink and drive (yet many still do) but not enough people realize how dangerous driving when tired is.
Most of all, i hope they don't put these in 18-wheelers are another way to squeeze yet more driving time out of the guys.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
When you get into a car you take your life in your hands. Everyone should know this.
We accept the dangerous because the convenience is worth it.
Re:Is this really the answer? (Score:5, Insightful)
As for blue lights in the car, I think it's potentially a bad idea. Blue light makes it hard to see in the dark. Red light doesn't affect night vision so much. Besides, I F*#$ing sick of all the blue lights gratuitously stuck all over the place -- like in the front of an otherwise nice quality DVD player. I'm sick of having to tape over blue lights or prop up DVD covers to right this idiocy about bright blue light.
And as for drivers with those ultra-blue blinding lights, I want to build an auto-tracking fully automatic BB gun (everyone knows driving is dangerous -- anyone remember Deathtrack from the bad old DOS days? loved that game).
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Re:Is this really the answer? (Score:5, Interesting)
Reminds me of that story a while back where they found out that keyboard indicators for caps/num/scroll lock were bright enough to semaphore a message out of a server room and down the hall.
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Re:Is this really the answer? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Is this really the answer? (Score:5, Interesting)
you are giving the general populace WAYYYY too much credit. Back when I was a Emergency responder the #1 cause in a crash was people not paying attention. Many times was some moron trying to grab a CD case or other item from the passenger side floor while driving. Others were women putting on makeup, men shaving, etc... From my experience in college with dealing with crashes first hand, Most people do not know that when they take their attention from the road it's dangerous as hell. One did not think turning the wheel, if she was not looking out the window, would turn the car!
The number of incredibly stupid people out there is increasing at an alarming rate. This past winter I watched a guy lose it on the highway 1/2 a mile up. the snow plume from him hitting the bridge embankment was huge. so I got over and started to slow down. the guy next to me who was looking out the same clear highway and who saw the same thing did not slow down like I did. He ended up as a secondary collision. When I asked him, "Didnt you see it happen?" he said yes, but was in a hurry and though he could make it around him.
That's plain old, full on stupid right there.
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Re:Is this really the answer? (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re:Is this really the answer? (Score:5, Insightful)
Most drivers are sober. You should look at the rate of accidents of drunk and sober drivers; I have a suspicion of what you would find.
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Re:Is this really the answer? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Is this really the answer? (Score:5, Informative)
"For all Americans between 5 and 35 years of age, motor vehicle accidents are the number one cause of death. Over 50% of these accidents are caused by alcohol impaired drivers."
from http://www.duipictures.com/statisti.htm [duipictures.com] with the note "From statistics complied by the U. S. Dept. of Transportation and the N. H. Department of Safety." Perhaps there is more to read there.
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Re:Is this really the answer? (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Is this really the answer? (Score:5, Insightful)
This is loopy notion even for Slashdot.
The drunk is not in control of anything.
His response time is lousy and his judgment is worse. It is quite impossible for him to "exercise greater care."
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Re:Is this really the answer? (Score:5, Interesting)
We accept the dangerous because the convenience is worth it.
I remember back when I played Quake II a lot, I would see a lot of things on the road that would cause a neural reflect to tap the "7" key IIRC which selected the rocket launcher. We "accept" the dangers created by the stupidity of those around us because government heavily repress our primal responses. Man, if I ever became the overlord at the DMV, things would be different.
That includes those people who think that driving at 50kph over the speed limit entitles them to private use of the inside lane. Look at me, I'm doing 160 in a 110 zone, everybody F'ing pull into the right lane like this is my private German autobahn or I'm going to hang inches behind your bumper pulsing my halogen highbeams like a prolapsed hemorrhoid. I don't feel myself radiating "acceptance", toward your average MF POS.
If you are decoding my driving behaviour as "acceptance" your powers of perception are extremely dim. The things some people do on the highway done in a wolf pack would see your liver served up as communal pate. Now and then a few aggressive bumper humpers hung from the signage scaffolds would soon set things right. To properly designate the offense, the bumper humpers could be hung with their pants around their ankles. Is Spitzer's wife known to be in the vicinity? No? That must have been another bumper humper. I'm digging, digging, digging and not finding this "acceptance" whereof you speak within myself.
Back to the subject at hand, I actually *have* non-24 hour sleep-wake disorder, and I can tell you that blue light does not function as described in any research I've seen.
Both melatonin and blue light have phase response curves with a fixed phase relationship to your daily body temp. min., that varies somewhat from one person to the next. For most people daily min. occurs somewhere around 05:00. A sleep study which captures this marker involves finding subjects willing (and able) to sleep wired up with rectal thermometers. For improved subject comfort, most sleep studies use DLMO (dim light melatonin offset) as a proxy marker instead. This occurs in the mid evening, and is marked by the first detectable increase of melatonin concentration in saliva (which doesn't occur if the eyes are exposed to bright light).
Blue light exposure in the early morning in the hour *before* your natural rising time will advance your cycle (earlier rising time). Blue light in the evening will delay your cycle (later rising time). To maintain a 24-hour sleep cycle, I require melatonin in the late afternoon and blue light on waking.
As a side note, the neurons in the retina that detect this blue light and signal phase change to the SCN are independent of the optical neurons. Some blind people retain this sensitivity, some don't (e.g. complete retinal loss). The blind people without this retinal sensitivity often suffer from non-24-hour sleep-wake disorder.
Both the existence of this retinal cell population and the phase response curves are fairly recent discoveries. I've only been able to successfully treat my condition for a year now (no help from my doctors, I ended up finding the research myself). Prior to that, was two decades where my body clock delayed an average of 1h15 per day. Internally, I was living on Mars time.
Subjectively, trying to live in day mode while my body wasn't was *exactly* the same as discovering each day that you are now experiencing an extra hour of jet lag as compared to the day before.
Imagine the suckiest jet lag you've ever experienced knowing the next day it will only get one hour worse, and this will continue for weeks. I would eventually reach the point of total circadian insanity, have a waking period 26 to 28 hours long, sleep for 12 to 16 hours, and wake up feeling great again. The funny thing about those long waking periods: I could code 26 hours straight and not suffer any diminishment in my vigilance contrary to most research (I have
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Re:Is this really the answer? (Score:5, Interesting)
Where I'm at in the upper midwest, the phrase "passing lane" isn't quite as common as you suggest. Frequently people just do whatever the hell they want, regardless of lane or their relative speed. I can't say I've ever heard (personally) of anyone being either warned or ticketed for traveling in the left-most ("passing") lane for an extended period. The closest we get to enforcement of this principle is the occasional sign which reads "Slower Traffic Keep Right".
I once spoke to a moron who said, "I drive at exactly the speed limit, so I am the faster traffic. Those people piling up behind me in the left lane should just suck it up." Speaking to a few friends who are in law enforcement, they said while he may not be directly breaking any traffic laws, they would probably cite him for disrupting traffic flow (or something along those lines).
There's no monopoly on stupid, that's for sure.
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Re:Is this really the answer? (Score:5, Interesting)
- I don't have to live within walking distance of my job (inside Baltimore City) with 1000 people all trying to squeeze into the same building (due to lack of living space/overpopulation).
- Instead we can spread out to the countryside and find plenty of room to breathe & live like human beings instead of ants (crawling on top of one another).
- Instead of having to walk to the local market every day, I can buy a whole month's worth of food in a single trip, thanks to my car. That saves time and lets me pursue other hobbies.
- On weekends I can go visit my parents or friends... something which would be impossible w/o a car. (There's train service, but it takes half a day to travel just 60 miles. The train is inconvenient.)
I would not want to give up my car
(a 70mpg Honda Insight by the way).
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A potential customer!!! (Score:3, Funny)
Make Sure you get some blue lights to keep you going all night....
Re:Is this really the answer? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I already have blue lights. (Score:3, Funny)
Volkswagen gauges are this exact color (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Volkswagen gauges are this exact color (Score:5, Interesting)
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Hmmmm. (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Volkswagen gauges are this exact color (Score:4, Interesting)
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Jokes?? (Score:5, Funny)
A: None 'o yo' fuckin' business!
Q: How many software people does it take to screw in a "blue" light bulb?
A: None. That's a hardware problem.
Q: How many televangelists does it take to screw in a "blue" light bulb?
A: None. Televangelists screw in motels.
Q: How many straight San Franciscans does it take to screw in a "blue" light bulb?
A: Both of them.
Doping (Score:3, Interesting)
Another idea: (Score:4, Funny)
Red+Blue (Score:5, Funny)
Seriously though, it would be better to just not drive when tired. Also wouldn't screwing around with your internal body clock mess you up more?
Great, but what about chips in the windscreen (Score:4, Insightful)
Those of us unfortunate enough to buy hardware with blue leds on it can share this fact, it's damned annoying.
Re:Great, but what about chips in the windscreen (Score:5, Interesting)
Visitors often ask me why my near new A/V equipment is in much worse condition than the older stuff. They think the black insulation tape I've got plastered all over the front is holding it together. It's really just there to block the annoying blue lights from burning holes in my retina while I'm trying to watch TV.
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The only problem... (Score:5, Insightful)
Blue wavelengths = No night vision as well (Score:5, Informative)
Not a desirable or safe side effect when making something specifically intended to be used for driving in the dark. It's why the military uses red lights in their vehicle cabins and cockpits.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I agree totally here! Furthermore, there's a worrying increase (on UK roads at least) headlamps with a *nasty* blue tint to them. I've no idea what they're called but they *really* screw with my eyes, mostly on BMWs and boy racers. Night vision gets all messed up and there's noticeable scarring (after image) - anyone know what the bulbs are?
I've recently noticed a second set of headlight bulbs, loved by boy racers also - they're also really screwy with your eyes. They're yellow-ish, and if you've got on
Re:Blue wavelengths = No night vision as well (Score:4, Informative)
Then there's the aftermarket HID kits, which are often blue. And, there's the blue-coated bulbs, to make people think you've got HIDs when you don't.
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How it works (Score:3, Informative)
One of the treatments for some sleep disorders is called "light therapy", and involves having a fairly bright light in view for about an hour after you wake up. This inhibits melatonin production and resets the circadian cycle to keep that as your wake-up time (which also places your go-to-sleep time at an appropriate time of day). Recent studies indicate that the suppression of melatonin production peaks around 450nm, so a blue light around that wavelength is far more effective per lumen than broad-spectrum light.
So, if you're a person who does a lot of night driving (you work the night shift, you drive trucks at night, etc.), this is great for you, because you can get by with a much dimmer light, perhaps even one in the vehicle while you're driving. If you just need this for one or two nights, you're a bit likely to give yourself jet lag by screwing up your sleep schedule.
Re:A third of accidents (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Please place all * light jokes in this thread. (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Please place all * light jokes in this thread. (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Please place all * light jokes in this thread. (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Please place all * light jokes in this thread. (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Please place all * light jokes in this thread. (Score:5, Funny)
When I die, I want to go peacefully, in my sleep, like my grandfather.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
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Re:Please place all * light jokes in this thread. (Score:5, Funny)
When I travel by plane, I never get any sleep. Kids yelling, flight attendants interrupting me.
But, when I'm driving myself, I can fall asleep no problem. Get some of my best shuteye when I'm behind the wheel.......
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Re:Soft red... (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:optional only please (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes we are. Some of us don't think clearly until after the sun has been down a few hours. Some of us have been that way since we were six despite the fact that we were raised by dads who kept us on a military time clock--and it didn't make one damn bit of difference, because we could invert the clock in one day by staying up until morning.
I have a theory: morning people have a 22 hour internal clock. I have a 28 hour internal clock. When I was a kid, I used to think it was "insomnia", but its not, because insomnia means that you can't sleep. I can sleep just dandy--about 20 hours after I get up. If I get six full hours, I'm wired like a jack russell terrier for a long long time. So I have to live about 6 days out of the week dead tired (4-5 hours of sleep) so that I have any hope of getting those 4 or 5 hours. One day of 6-7 and I need to be up 20 hours to compensate. My clock gets advanced two or three hours sleeping (god forbid) 8, and I spend the week working it back. Friends, this is not fun. Its also not choice, because if I could trade my 28 hour clock for a 22 hour clock (like my wife has) I would in a heartbeat. I'd use those other 2 hours for sleep. 10 hours of sleep per day--that would rule.
If you study sleep--dig yourself into that theory above. You have some big papers coming your way, I guarantee you.
Only when I got to be an adult did I realize that morning people aren't "faking it". Get this: they are really rather happy its morning! All that "good morning" stuff--its sincere to them. And you have to lie and say "good morning" right back to them or they won't understand you.
Also, when I used to drive 17 hours straight (which I've done more than a few times) I couldn't wait for it to turn night so it wouldn't be so hard to stay up. Dylight is hell when a true night person wants to stay awake. If a blue light simulates that and intrudes on my precious darkness, I don't want any part of it.
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Maybe it's about temperament or self-discipline (Score:3, Interesting)
I have a theory: morning people have a 22 hour internal clock. I have a 28 hour internal clock.
This changes w/age. People in their fifties have usually an internal clock of some 24 hrs. Some can have even 30 hours or more at their twenties. Old people can have internal clocks of 19-20 hrs, which is why they tend to get tired early in the evening and then start waking up in the very early morning hours.
Some of us don't think clearly until after the sun has been down a few hours. Some of us have been that way since we were six despite the fact that we were raised by dads who kept us on a military time clock--and it didn't make one damn bit of difference, because we could invert the clock in one day by staying up until morning.
In my case I don't think it's really about my internal clock, as you could really time your clock by me when I was a baby, regarding both sleeping and eating. My folks made me get up at 07:00 e