The Army's $10M Spy Bat Still Too Big

Lucas123 writes "The University of Michigan's Center for Objective Microelectronics and Biomimetic Advanced Technology (COM-BAT) is working on building a robot bat that would perform long-range reconnaissance for the U.S. Army, but U.Mich is currently struggling with miniaturizing components in order to make the bat small enough to be stealthy. 'The focus is to shrink down many electronics that while currently available would only be good if the US Army wanted, say, a 12-foot spy-bat.' Some components need to be 1,000 times smaller than they currently are. The Army's $10 million grant proposal calls for the bat to be six inches in length, weigh four ounces and use just one watt of power. The bat is supposed to be powered by a lithium-ion battery, charged by solar and wind energy, as well as simple vibrations."

Vampire?

[cayenne8 (626475)]

Why not make a requirment to be a vampire bat?

It could feed on blood...and thus hurt the enemy, and generate power for long missions. It would be cool too, in that it would only come out at night, and could only be killed with a wooden stake.

:-)

Re:

[Z00L00K (682162)]

And why not add some strain of Rabies to it while you are at it then?

Re:Vampire?

[Brian Gordon (987471)]

You hardly need some advanced chemical warfare; the thing is 12 feet across, you can just armor plate it and use the godzilla strategy.. just fly around the city ramming things and thowing people around like Nazgul in the LOTR movies. They won't be able to shoot it down because it's large and radioactive.

Re:Vampire?

[flyingsquid (813711)]

We were somewhere around Barstow on the edge of the desert when the drugs began to take hold. I remember saying something like, "I feel a bit lightheaded; maybe you should drive . . ." And suddenly there was a terrible roar all around us and the sky was full of what looked like huge bats, all swooping and screeching and diving around the car, which was going about 100 miles an hour with the top down to Las Vegas. And a voice was screaming: "Holy Jesus! What are these goddamn animals?"

Then it was quiet again. My attorney had taken his shirt off and was pouring beer on his chest, to facilitate the tanning process. "What the hell are you yelling about," he muttered, staring up at the sun with his eyes closed and covered with wraparound Spanish sunglasses. "Never mind," I said. "It's your turn to drive." I hit the brakes and aimed the Great Red Shark toward the shoulder of the highway. No point mentioning those bats, I thought. The poor bastard will see them soon enough.

---Hunter S. Thompson, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas

Re:

[cayenne8 (626475)]

"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."

-Hunter S. Thompson

Hmm...perhaps this belonged on the article about Addiction to video games.....

In other news

[einhverfr (238914)]

Bald Eagles have been listed to the State Department list of international terrorist organizations after several members of this group disabled and destroyed several of COM-BAT's in various countries in North America. John Negroponte stated "We believe that this group, which typically uses airborn counter-intelligence tactics has an international reach and has demonstrated a willingness to attack members of our armed forces, including such flying robots." Addressing those who have complained that the bald eagle is the official US bird, Negroponte added "It has now become clear that terrorists have infiltrated even this historic ally of ours and, like Saddam, we must eliminate them. Later today, we will propose legislation to Congress changing the national bird to the pidgeon."

The state department is said to be considering adding various other carnivorous birds to the list as well.

In other news-

[Naughty Bob (1004174)]

Army's clue-bat still many, many times too small.

Sounds like a comic book prop

[jollyreaper (513215)]

Quick, Robin! Hand me the bat-bat!

But seriously, why go with an ornithopter design? There's that excellent quote about AI's, "The question of whether a computer thinks like a person is as relevant as whether a submarine swims like a fish."

Would not a conventional ultralight drone with battery-operated propeller work more effectively than flappy wings?

Re:Sounds like a comic book prop

[AKAImBatman (238306)]

But seriously, why go with an ornithopter design?

Stealth. It needs to act (at least somewhat) like a real bat or it will be detected. Real bats are ornithopters. Ergo, the spy craft must be an ornithopter.

Re:

[Z00L00K (682162)]

Not really necessary to build a complete one then - remote control a bird instead. Pigeons have great stamina and they are often resilient to stress.

Disadvantage is that they may be captured and eaten.

Another catch is the animal rights activists that will have their say in it too when you implant your electrodes into the pigeon's brain.

For greater payload you may want to use a falcon or an albatross.

There is an advantage with flexible wings, but it's also a lot more complex which means that a fixed-

Pigeons next

[TheMeuge (645043)]

The idea of a bat-like creature is probably a concern because fixed wing designs will attract more attention.

Basically, they want something that'll look like a bird, fly like a bird, and would be able to engage in surveillance without anyone noticing. The next logical step would be to make a pigeon-like creature, that would be unnoticeable in an urban environment. A few thousand of those in a large city could make enforcing "free speech zones" much easier.

Re:

[CRCulver (715279)]

Defense technology research labs are staffed by the same sort of nerds that post here on Slashdot. I don't think it's likely that they are intentionally developing technology that can be used against their own fellow urban Americans.

Re:Pigeons next

[TheMeuge (645043)]

I find fault with your logic, because you're assuming that one's beliefs and principles override one's requirement to work in order to feed, clothe, and house themselves and their families.

Re:

[Bobb9000 (796960)]

Depending on the wing design and control software, ornithopters can actually be a lot more maneuverable than fixed wing aircraft. If they want an ability to go indoors, fixed-wing is pretty much out, and helicopters both burn energy like crazy and tend to a bit more obvious.

Re:

[mckinnsb (984522)]

The additional benefit of a bat-like design (as opposed to a pigeon) is that they are nocturnal - so a spy-bat flying around at night would be more difficult to discern from a real bat as opposed to a spy-pigeon from a real pigeon. Bats are also nearly ubiquitous in the earth's ecology, making them ideal for spying anywhere.

Another plus involves the behavior of a bat. A bat sitting still in a tree or a cave wouldn't be considered "abnormal" by a casual observer- and most people are honestly too afraid o

Re:

[192939495969798999 (58312)]

Those mosquito helicopters are like 20 bucks and do the same thing, sounds to me like a pork barrel to fund something else. For 10 million, couldn't you just tape a dvr to a real bat and pay off PETA to leave you alone?

Re:

[hairyfeet (841228)]

Then why not a hawk or one of the other birds that can float as well as flap? Plus using a bat will pretty much mean night missions,as it is very rare to see a bat at 1PM on a sunny day,whereas we see so many birds out at all hours that I doubt anyone would notice another hawk/sparrow/crow sized bird flying around. I have a feeling they chose bat because it would look cooler,and thus would be an easier sell.

COM-BAT?

[Ryukotsusei (1164453)]

Okay, this is taking military acronyms way too far..

Re:

[Asmor (775910)]

Just erase the C and write a W in to turn it into a WOM-BAT.

Too obscure?

Magic Charge

[AKAImBatman (238306)]

The bat is supposed to be powered by a lithium-ion battery, charged by solar and wind energy, as well as simple vibrations.

Why don't they just ask for Zero Point Energy while they're at it? The "bat" is going to be working against the wind, generating vibrations, and (presumably) flying at night. Which makes all those charge methods about as useful as a screen door on a submarine. Why don't they ask for something that follows the KISS principle and just pull the battery pack to charge it?

Re:Magic Charge

[Bobb9000 (796960)]

Since the article says it's supposed to be long-range, my guess is that the mission profile would be to sit somewhere out of the way and charge during the day, then do its recon at night. All of those methods are very useful, because it means the drone could stay in an area and continue to operate without human intervention nearly indefinitely.

Re:

[gnick (1211984)]

Those are a couple of the major hurdles to jump. I think that it may be easier to train real bats and learn to communicate with them so that you can debrief them when they return from the field...

Re:

[timeOday (582209)]

The "bat" is going to be working against the wind, generating vibrations, and (presumably) flying at night. Which makes all those charge methods about as useful as a screen door on a submarine.

You are assuming the battery would only charge while the bat is flying. I can't imagine why they would do that.

Re:

[AKAImBatman (238306)]

You are assuming the battery would only charge while the bat is flying.

That I am. Because otherwise I don't see the point. Rather than add the weight and complexity of all those charging methods, why not pull the battery pack out and plug it into a charger? If finding a power source is a problem, make the charger plug into the cigarette lighter in the Humvees. (Or whatever other power plug the military might be equipping their vehicles with.) Much simpler, less expensive, and more reliable.

Of course, I've s

Re:

[Bobb9000 (796960)]

we don't have UAVs that can land and takeoff unattended inside enemy territory

This isn't a technological issue. We have plenty of designs capable of taking off and landing autonomously wherever it's needed; I don't know whether any are currently deployed, but there's no reason we couldn't.

Yet the military thinks that this magical ornithopter is going to manage takeoff and landing unattended? (Which is significantly complicated by its wing design.)

While this is complicated by its wing design compared to a helicopter, it's actually easier compared to a fixed-wing drone. You don't need an extended runway; hell, those little WowWee dragonfly RC toys can take off from ground in about five feet.

On top of that, the military really expects that these things will lay out in the open (where they can get sunlight) and go completely undetected?

On rooftops, in trees, in forested clearings

Solar power?

[druuna (1097839)]

I've always thought that bats are nocturnal.......

Re:

[Yvan256 (722131)]

So? All they have to implement a "sleep during the day" mode just like a real bat, which will recharge its batteries.

Six inch bat?

[SleptThroughClass (1127287)]

What good is a six inch bat? You're not going to hit one out of the ballpark with that.

Re:

[owlnation (858981)]

What good is a six inch bat? You're not going to hit one out of the ballpark with that.

Maybe Vlad Guerrero could?

Bat metaphors... but one louder.

Giant bat?

[Mongoose Disciple (722373)]

You know, a 12 foot robot bat might be a bit big for spy missions, but maybe it could be repurposed to scaring the hell out of and possibly murdering people.

It's a 12 foot robot bat, man! That'd scare the hell out of me if it came for me in the dark.

Re:

[AKAImBatman (238306)]

maybe it could be repurposed to scaring the hell out of and possibly murdering people.

The problem with such psychological tricks is that they are very short lived. Once your enemy realizes what you're throwing at them, they'll piece together their opponent and develop countermeasures. And when we're talking about a 12 foot flying machine, it wouldn't take long for fear to be replaced by, "target that craft and shoot it out of the sky". At which point its effectiveness would drop substantially.

Even if we ass

Re:

[glwtta (532858)]

Hmm... you make some very good points. I'm even beginning to think that maybe a 12-foot murderous mechanical bat might not be an effective weapon.

And it sounded so logical, at first!

Giant bat countermeasures

[SleptThroughClass (1127287)]

So you're saying it would be assassins, ninjas, and pirates vs Giant Robot Bat?

COM-BAT? Really?

[Itninja (937614)]

Seriously, do they think of a word and then try to find a convoluted way to make it an acronym? That invokes images of a military image/marketing department....
Trey: "Hey Lance, what do you think of COM-BAT?"
Lance: "Trey, I think it's FABULOUS!"

Also....

[Lordfly (590616)]

...the bat must also be given a pony whenever it asks, and have an ample supply of ice cream for bad bat-days.

Powered by vibrations on a flying object?

[ramk13 (570633)]

Wouldn't having it be powered by vibrations make flight stability that much harder? Most of those devices have a mass that is free to move along one axis which has oscillatory motion. Seems like a device like that would dampen wing beats and other motions that would be important for flight.

Next up, the $10M flying hammer

[Lucas123 (935744)]

Hey, it makes more sense than a bat that flies around in daylight.

Apparently the prototype failed

[pandrijeczko (588093)]

The project to develop the prototype of the COM-BAT some five years ago, the Operational Stealth Tiny Robotic Intelligent Combat Helicopter (OSTRICH) just didn't take off.

Alternative approach...

[fahrbot-bot (874524)]

The Army's $10 million grant proposal calls for the bat to be six inches in length, weigh four ounces and use just one watt of power. The bat is supposed to be powered by a lithium-ion battery, charged by solar and wind energy, as well as simple vibrations.

Those wacky Army guys. Hell the battery and recharging equipment will weigh more that 4 oz -- especially if powering surveillance *and* flight components.

Wouldn't it just be easier and cheaper to mount the equipment on actual trained bats and let the

Does it matter?

[joeflies (529536)]

I thought the whole evolution of technology starts with proving that the design works. If the design is valid, then miniaturizing the design can take place over time. If the initial design doesn't work at all, then don't worry about miniaturizing it later.

Millions of military dollars

[techpawn (969834)]

Versus tennis racket... Tennis racket FTW!

It's like the "fly on the wall" spy equipment that get squished before it gathers any actual information...

That's not a weapon....

[penguin_dance (536599)]

"The Army's $10 million grant proposal calls for the bat to be six inches in length, weigh four ounces and use just one watt of power. The bat is supposed to be powered by a lithium-ion battery, charged by solar and wind energy, as well as simple vibrations."

....it's a sex toy!

And they're worried about it being too big! Sound like some of the spam I've been getting....

beats the last thing the military tried with bats

[circletimessquare (444983)]

the bat bomb [wikipedia.org]

sounds like the plot of a bad saturday morning cartoon

What this project needs RIGHT NOW

[kjoonlee (226243)]

There are several things that this project needs RIGHT NOW in order to be successful.

First, a whizkid plucked out from high school, who will be separated from his mommy for the first time ever.
Second, a crazy roommate who doesn't care about authority figures
Third, a mysterious man who lives in their closet
Fourth, an annoying dude who tries to suck up to his professor
Fifth, a charming young lady, interested in the whizkid, who just happens to be hyperactive
Sixth, an ambitious and immoral professor who's tricking the innocent to UNKNOWINGLY CONTRIBUTE to a MILITARY PROJECT
Seventh, said professor's inordinate hatred for popcorn -- oh wait...

Bat Mitzvah

[greyhueofdoubt (1159527)]

So when is the Bat Mitzvah?

-b

Re:

[pandrijeczko (588093)]

Read the Slashdot FAQ, it's clear these coments don't belong.

Read the Book Of Life, especially the chapter on "Finding A Sense Of Humour".

Slashdot's moderation system rewards postings which are "Funny", "Interesting" and "Insightful", not just those that happen to agree with your (presumably) pro-military opinions.

Re:

[ArcherB (796902)]

not just those that happen to agree with your (presumably) pro-military opinions.

In an attempt to get this back on topic...

This "BAT" research is a good thing. Sure, it's intended for the military, but the technology that is being gained from this will find its way into the civilian sector soon enough, and it's all paid for from our military budget. Maybe this will help those that feel guilty that their tax dollars are being spent to kill people and break things. In this case, they are looking to make a zero emissions vehicle that otherwise, might not be being worked on.

Re:Cue The Peacnik Hippie Crowd.

[pandrijeczko (588093)]

This "BAT" research is a good thing.

So is the cure for cancer. And given the choice, I know where I'd want my taxes to be spent.

Re:Cue The Peacnik Hippie Crowd.

[evanbd (210358)]

So is the cure for cancer. And given the choice, I know where I'd want my taxes to be spent.

You present a false dichotomy.

I'm generally in favor of reduced defense spending, but research into new capabilities is something I think is worthwhile. I wholeheartedly agree that a cure for cancer would be better than this, but we don't have that choice available. Even if we did, it's likely that a few $M taken from a robotic bat project wouldn't even be close to enough.

We can spend money on both. Whether spending tax money on this is a good idea is mostly unrelated to whether spending tax money on medical research is a good idea. Obviously the two are connected through tax rates and thus the total government funding available, but as long as the projects are small relative to the total fund, they should each be evaluated against the alternative of reducing taxes (or increasing them, depending on your preferred viewpoint), rather than against each other.

We're all (well, mostly) smart people here, capable of evaluating complex choices. Let's at least look at the correct set of choices, rather than a rhetoric-filled politically motivated set of options that don't actually exist.

Re:

[megaditto (982598)]

US Military budget for 2007: 1.2 trillion USD (800M main +400M Iraq/Afganistan supplemental)
US R&D budget for 2007: 0.1 trillion USD (includes health, energy, as well as basic research)

What would be wrong with having these reversed? To put it in some context, the military budget equals to US$ 4,000 per each man, woman, or child in the United States, per year. That's a SHITLOAD of money. Which could buy you flying cars, cold fusion, cure for cancer, teleportation, and 200 year life expectancy off the sta